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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 31st January 2019, 05:44 PM   #361
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by CNN
Police are in possession of the rope and the sweater Smollett was wearing on the night of the attack and are testing the substance, according to Chicago police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi.

Smollett and his manager, Brandon Moore, told authorities they were speaking on the phone with each other at the time of the attack, police said.

Guglielmi said because of the financial relationship between the two men, they are trying to verify the call took place and have requested phone records or the physical phones used for the call...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/enter...all/index.html

And then there is that threat letter containing powdered aspirin.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:45 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You donít have to hand over the phone. Just a screenshot of the web page showing your account activity reflecting the call with your manager would do.

Like, Iím not famous but even if I suspected the local PD would leak my friends numbers, I would probably do at least this to corroborate my story.

If Iím attacked, i want the culprits caught. I will cooperate 100% with anything the cops need from me.

When I donít...skepticism is warranted.


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Remember, protecting Terrence Howardís phone number is much more important that solving DOMESTIC TERRORISM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:51 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
There are three possible outcomes from this:

He got attacked and most or all of the story is true. If so, I'll admit that I was wrong.

The story is a lie and it's to cover up something he considers even more embarassing. I that case I will say "Told ya!"

It's actually something no one even thought of.

I'm open to all possibilities. In any case it's unfortunate that he sustained some injuries.
I'm surprised that you didn't include another which is similar to the bolded one...

The story is a lie and it isn't to cover up anything and he wasn't attacked by anyone anywhere and the injuries are self-inflicted and we just don't really know what the motive would be.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:57 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by CNN
Guglielmi said because of the financial relationship between the two men, they are trying to verify the call took place and have requested phone records or the physical phones used for the call...
This part has me confused. Why would their financial relation be a cause for examining the phone records? I would think that the reason is to help towards solving an assault investigation. But why does their financial connection have importance?
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:58 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm surprised that you didn't include another which is similar to the bolded one...



The story is a lie and it isn't to cover up anything and he wasn't attacked by anyone anywhere and the injuries are self-inflicted and we just don't really know what the motive would be.
As far as motives go, "Orange Man Bad" has a lot of explanatory power in this scenario.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:03 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
This part has me confused. Why would their financial relation be a cause for examining the phone records? I would think that the reason is to help towards solving an assault investigation. But why does their financial connection have importance?
Incentive to lie
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:08 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Incentive to lie
Would that mean that the investigators really have made the switch from Smollett as victim to Smollett as criminal? Search warrants come next?
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:19 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Would that mean that the investigators really have made the switch from Smollett as victim to Smollett as criminal? Search warrants come next?
No, that would mean that someone with an incentive to lie for someone will not be taken merely on their word.

They said MAGA COUNTRY!
it is true, we were totes talking on the phone and heard it clear as day!
Police: cool, then you will be delighted to turn over your phone to prove it
Oh no, once I called the fresh princeís uncle and therefore, sorry...
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:28 PM   #369
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Personally never heard of this ďcelebrityĒ before this thread appeared but my first thought, when the refusal to turn over his phone (if that is truly the case) was mentioned, was that perhaps there is something in his phoneís history he does not wish to be known that is unrelated to the reported event. Embarrassing photos, texts, emails, web history - things such as that could influence his decision not to allow it to be examined whether this is a hoax or not.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:34 PM   #370
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Who the hell carries any kind of liquid in sub zero temperatures at 2 in the morning? I can understand a hot beverage or alcohol, but a bleach like substance? Semen can smell like bleach, just saying.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:36 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I read early on that Smollett wasn't cooperating with police in the role of what would be expected for a crime victim. He didn't want to help with the investigation. Then later read that he is cooperating. Maybe at first he didn't want to and then later did.

One example might be that he didn't talk about the MAGA thing with police but only did later after one of his acquaintances talked about it publicly.

A variety of things suggest to me that he never wanted the lie to be known to the police or the public. He did not want to risk being found out that he had lied. He only wanted that guy in the condo to hear the lie. Whatever he had to gain from telling the lie was going to come from that condo guy. If there was to be risk of being discovered as a liar it was going to come from that condo guy. Nobody else.
Is the condo guy and the "manager" he was on the phone with the same person?
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:45 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
Personally never heard of this ďcelebrityĒ before this thread appeared but my first thought, when the refusal to turn over his phone (if that is truly the case) was mentioned, was that perhaps there is something in his phoneís history he does not wish to be known that is unrelated to the reported event. Embarrassing photos, texts, emails, web history - things such as that could influence his decision not to allow it to be examined whether this is a hoax or not.
Agree with this. Those things could be on the phone and I wouldn't want to hand my phone over to police either.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:46 PM   #373
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"Chicago police also say Jussie Smollett is NOT the target or focus of any criminal investigation, he is the victim. Police have no interest or probable cause to obtain a warrant to search his phone records."

and given the fact that the "victim" refused to cooperate? **** him

Last edited by The Big Dog; 31st January 2019 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:16 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Is the condo guy and the "manager" he was on the phone with the same person?
To answer my own question, no. The guy who made the 911 call identified homself as "Frank" and the manager he was on the phone with, who heard the attack happen is named Brandon Z. Moore.

Quote:
A man who identified himself as "Frank" called 911 around 2:32 a.m. Tuesday from a luxury apartment at 340 East North Water Street. Police arrived about 10 minutes later.
Link
Quote:
Smollettís music manager, Brandon Z. Moore, told Variety today that he was on the phone with Smollett when the actor was attacked. ďI heard ĎMAGA countryí clearly,Ē Moore said. ďI heard the scuffle and I heard the racial slur.Ē

Moore said he gave his account of events to police but he declined to go into details with Variety because the investigation is active.
Link
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:20 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You donít have to hand over the phone. Just a screenshot of the web page showing your account activity reflecting the call with your manager would do.

Like, Iím not famous but even if I suspected the local PD would leak my friends numbers, I would probably do at least this to corroborate my story.

If Iím attacked, i want the culprits caught. I will cooperate 100% with anything the cops need from me.

When I donít...skepticism is warranted.


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I'm having trouble imagining what the phone or call records might provide to investigators that might aid in finding the perpetrators if Smollet is telling the truth. All it would do is confirm that he had a call with his manager and the timing of that call. Both pieces of information that I believe Smollet has testified to. The phone would only be useful evidence as to the truthfulness of his account. If he is telling the truth, the phone won't help find his attackers.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:20 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Agree with this. Those things could be on the phone and I wouldn't want to hand my phone over to police either.
I think this is completely reasonable. I also think that Smollett's unverifiable claim about the phone call can't be used to verify Smollett's claim about the attack.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:22 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I'm having trouble imagining what the phone or call records might provide to investigators that might aid in finding the perpetrators if Smollet is telling the truth. All it would do is confirm that he had a call with his manager and the timing of that call. Both pieces of information that I believe Smollet has testified to. The phone would only be useful evidence as to the truthfulness of his account. If he is telling the truth, the phone won't help find his attackers.
If.

If he's telling the truth.

Verifying the phone call would be a step towards verifying that there were attackers to find.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:30 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think this is completely reasonable. I also think that Smollett's unverifiable claim about the phone call can't be used to verify Smollett's claim about the attack.
Verify? No. But while it wouldn't be the first time a manager lied for a client and given the context it would be even more bizarre for both men to be putting their careers at risk for no clear benefit.

The scenarios laid out by skeptic would all be far better served by far simpler lies if lies served them at all. The defense has been that maybe Smollett is just doing crazy things. That his agent would go down with that ship is not impossible, but it makes it more unlikely.

If there was no no call, police will find that out. Two people with a lot to lose is less likely than just one.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:31 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If.

If he's telling the truth.

Verifying the phone call would be a step towards verifying that there were attackers to find.
Police are searching for the attackers already. Verfifying the call is not a barrier.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:34 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You donít have to hand over the phone. Just a screenshot of the web page showing your account activity reflecting the call with your manager would do.
That's why I mentioned the vague reporting. Some of it is that they were asking for his and his managers phones and their phone records.

I don't know that a web page screenshot would actually be enough, but IANAL.

Quote:
If Iím attacked, i want the culprits caught. I will cooperate 100% with anything the cops need from me.
That's nice. Or naive. It doesn't change that many people don't react that way.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:43 PM   #381
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The "bleach" was Mountain Dew Baja Blast from Subway.

The "noose" was a string from a hoodie.

Maybe.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:58 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I'm having trouble imagining what the phone or call records might provide to investigators that might aid in finding the perpetrators if Smollet is telling the truth. All it would do is confirm that he had a call with his manager and the timing of that call. Both pieces of information that I believe Smollet has testified to. The phone would only be useful evidence as to the truthfulness of his account. If he is telling the truth, the phone won't help find his attackers.


Well...

No video evidence corroborates the attack along the route we assume he took. Ok, that could be due to the fact that we donít have a good time frame to pinpoint on video and/or we donít know exactly where the attack took place. Oh? Thereís a phone call that has the exact time of the attack? Perfect! We can get a time of attack AND the cell towers it was pinging.

Seems like good info to have but IANADetective.


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Old 31st January 2019, 08:28 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Myles
Embarrassing photos, texts, emails, web history - things such as that could influence his decision not to allow it to be examined whether this is a hoax or not.
If it is a hoax then the phone might contain evidence showing the planning of the hoax. But the worst scenario for a hate crime hoaxer would be if the phone also shows evidence of planning a hoax threat letter.

That would be very embarrassing. Probably worse than any photo that has nothing to do with hoaxing hate crimes.

If the phone is voluntarily handed over then it would be highly unlikely to contain any of that hoaxing evidence. If it does contain that stuff he probably now won't want to risk it being discovered and would destroy the phone and it would never be found.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:33 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Well...

No video evidence corroborates the attack along the route we assume he took. Ok, that could be due to the fact that we donít have a good time frame to pinpoint on video and/or we donít know exactly where the attack took place. Oh? Thereís a phone call that has the exact time of the attack? Perfect! We can get a time of attack AND the cell towers it was pinging.

Seems like good info to have but IANADetective.

Right. There is testimony that the attack occurred during the phone call. If there is a way to verify the time and length of the call without the surrender of the phone itself, then coordinate that info hopefully by surveillance camera/s that hopefully had the correct time, it could possibly verify that the attack did or did not occur.

If the surrender of the phone is necessary to obtain that info and Smollett still refuses to do so, that would end the investigation for me.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:39 PM   #385
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Given the amount of time and effort Chicago has put into this nonsense, the fact this celebrity isn’t bending over backwards to assist means:

Shut it down.

Stop wasting time and our resources

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Old 31st January 2019, 08:43 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I'm having trouble imagining what the phone or call records might provide to investigators that might aid in finding the perpetrators if Smollet is telling the truth. All it would do is confirm that he had a call with his manager and the timing of that call. Both pieces of information that I believe Smollet has testified to. The phone would only be useful evidence as to the truthfulness of his account. If he is telling the truth, the phone won't help find his attackers.
How many man hours should the CPD devote to the investigation of a "domestic terrorist attack" without attempting to verify that such an attack actually happened?

The victim is not the only one with an interest in what is going on here.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:47 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
Right. There is testimony that the attack occurred during the phone call. If there is a way to verify the time and length of the call without the surrender of the phone itself, then coordinate that info hopefully by surveillance camera/s that hopefully had the correct time, it could possibly verify that the attack did or did not occur.

If the surrender of the phone is necessary to obtain that info and Smollett still refuses to do so, that would end the investigation for me.
Phone records are easy to get, especially for something so recent, so the phone is not needed.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:55 PM   #388
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If Smollett and his family really do regard this as a domestic terrorist attack then they should be demanding the involvement of the FBI.

Our son has been the target of terrorism for two consecutive weeks now. We demand that the FBI fully investigate both the letter and the violent attack in Chicago.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:06 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
He probably assumed it was evidence, had DNA on it and possibly fingerprints, and wanted the police to collect it from where it was left. Or, possibly, he was unaware that it was there. The fact that he left evidence in situ shouldn't be taken as meaning that it wasn't evidence, or that it was faked evidence, or that there is something otherwise fishy with his story.
If he was traumatized by being attacked it is not a stretch that he was unaware of the rope or did not think about what to do with it.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:17 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Jesus H.......absolutely not a single shred of anything whatsoever to support your little makey uppie scenario. What is it with some people that makes it impossible to accept that someone might be telling the truth, particularly when that person has no motive to make the story up, and has an awful lot to lose if his charade were to be uncovered? This is supposed to be a forum for sceptics. Well apply a bit of scepticism and analysis to what you are actually suggesting. You and others should be posting this crap in the Conspicracy sub forum, not here........and to absolutely clear, your argument is akin to that of "truthers".
You canít think of motives? Beat up by prostitue, hates Trump and those who like him, drunk or drugs...etc.
Plenty of possibilities.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:19 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Phone records are easy to get, especially for something so recent, so the phone is not needed.
I think police need a warrant to get phone records from the phone company. They donít need a warrant if someone voluntarily gives them access to the phone.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:31 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
You canít think of motives? Beat up by prostitue, hates Trump and those who like him, drunk or drugs...etc.
Plenty of possibilities.
Traumatized enough to forget to remove the bolo tie, but remembers to tell the cops to turn off their body cams.

Again totally sounds legit.

In MAGA COUNTRY!
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:34 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I think police need a warrant to get phone records from the phone company. They donít need a warrant if someone voluntarily gives them access to the phone.
Correct since last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpen..._United_States

It was a 5-4 decision, so not a slam dunk I guess, but the Supreme Court has decided that the police must obtain a warrant, and hence must be able to show probable cause, to look at your phone records without your permission.

Quote:
Prior to Carpenter, government entities could obtain cellphone location records by claiming the information was required as part of an investigation. After Carpenter, government entities must obtain a warrant in order to access the information. The decision overturned portions of 20th century legislation and case law when nearly all US homes had landline phones in favor of constitutional rights stemming from technological advances of cellphones in the early 21st century. The ruling was very narrow and did not otherwise change the third-party doctrine related to other business records that might incidentally reveal location information, nor overrule prior decisions concerning conventional surveillance techniques and tools such as security cameras. The Court did not expand its ruling on other matters related to cellphones not presented in Carpenter, including real-time cell site location information (CSLI) or "tower dumps" (a download of information about all the devices that connected to a particular cell site during a particular interval). The opinion also did not consider other collection techniques involving foreign affairs or national security.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:35 PM   #394
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"Chicago police also say Jussie Smollett is NOT the target or focus of any criminal investigation, he is the victim. Police have no interest or probable cause to obtain a warrant to search his phone records."
ďDonít believe anything until it is officially denied.Ē
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:32 PM   #395
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I can understand not handing over the phone. A lot of younger people these days live on their phones, and being separated from them for even 15 minutes can start to cause then anxiety. Can you imagine how they would react to being without it for the time it took to get it back once it was considered Police Evidence? Heck I don't live on my phone, I use it maybe a couple of times a week, I don't have anything embarrassing on it, and I still wouldn't give it to the police as evidence because it's my phone and I might have need for it at some point before they return it. For someone that is on their phone nearly 24/7, that would be a huge concern.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:35 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Traumatized enough to forget to remove the bolo tie, but remembers to tell the cops to turn off their body cams.

Again totally sounds legit.

In MAGA COUNTRY!
Why is asking the officers to turn off their body cams an issue? It was reported that a lot of people do so when officers enter a private home, I know I would, i wouldn't want footage of my home appearing all over the internet, especially if I was famous.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:39 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why is asking the officers to turn off their body cams an issue? It was reported that a lot of people do so when officers enter a private home, I know I would, i wouldn't want footage of my home appearing all over the internet, especially if I was famous.
Because the claim to which I was responding was that he was too”traumatized” to remember to take off the rope.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 31st January 2019 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:45 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I can understand not handing over the phone. A lot of younger people these days live on their phones, and being separated from them for even 15 minutes can start to cause then anxiety. Can you imagine how they would react to being without it for the time it took to get it back once it was considered Police Evidence? Heck I don't live on my phone, I use it maybe a couple of times a week, I don't have anything embarrassing on it, and I still wouldn't give it to the police as evidence because it's my phone and I might have need for it at some point before they return it. For someone that is on their phone nearly 24/7, that would be a huge concern.
I wouldn't voluntarily give my phone to the police for any reason. I can totally understand why he would not want to give up his, even if he knows that there's nothing on the phone that the police could use against him for any reason. He's really in a tough position because it looks like he's not cooperating when he's merely doing what's prudent.

Phone or no phone, there are too many other holes in this story for me to believe that it's true. Not turning over his phone is not something that I consider evidence of anything.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:59 PM   #399
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Because the claim to which I was responding was that he was tooĒtraumatizedĒ to remember to take off the rope.
Who asked for the cameras to be turned off, him or his friend that owned the apartment and likely answered the door?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:07 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Can you point me to any successful people in the public eye who have faked something of this nature? Someone with the same balance of what's to be gained against what's to be lost as this actor?
Has anybody said Morton Downy Jr. yet? I don't know how comparable Mort is to this guy as far as celebrity status. But back in the day, he was one of most obnoxious and successful trash television talk show hosts. He claimed he was attacked in a bathroom at SFO by neo-Nazis who roughed him up and drew a swastika on his chest. Unfortunately the arms of the swastika pointed to the left--a mistake no self-respecting neo-Nazi would make but somebody drawing a swastika on his chest while looking in a mirror might.

So, yes it does happen.
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