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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 13th February 2019, 06:06 AM   #161
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Really amazing propaganda. I think the Mueller investigation -- through the indictments and convictions -- have shown there was collusion beyond any reasonable doubt.
No one in the administration has been indicted, let alone convicted, of any collusion with the Russians.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:07 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Doesn't regulating drug prices require federal control? I thought Republicans were generally against government interference?
Yes regulations are a type of federal control.

Republicans claim to be against government interference, but like everything else they claim, it is a lie.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:10 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's like evolution. They only look at one piece of evidence and claim it means nothing. The ability to look at all of the evidence as a whole is lost on them, they can never see the forest because they are too busy taking a dump on Hillary Clinton looking at Hillary's emails.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:29 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Meant "panhandle". Trump Country.
For those unfamiliar, Tallahassee - the state capitol - is in the panhandle and is largely democratic.

As evidence, their primary newspaper:



But stipulated that the majority of the panhandle is rural and Trump country.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:41 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
For those unfamiliar, Tallahassee - the state capitol - is in the panhandle and is largely democratic.

As evidence, their primary newspaper:

But stipulated that the majority of the panhandle is rural and Trump country.
[spelling nitpick] capitol is a building, capital is a government hq of a state/country etc [/sorry]
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:56 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
[spelling nitpick] capitol is a building, capital is a government hq of a state/country etc [/sorry]
Glad to accept the correction - I thought I went out of my way to get that right.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:57 AM   #167
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Florida, even more so then most states, has a big Urban/Rural divide. Probably why it's always such a swing state.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:57 AM   #168
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Two Trump retweets (from The White House) right next to each other.
They would seem to be somewhat contradictory.

Quote:
Americans pay 180 percent of what Europeans, Canadians, and Japanese pay for the exact same drugs
Quote:
President Trump's commitment to improving the quality of life for all Americans has led to the largest single decline in drug prices in 46 YEARS.
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:25 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Two Trump retweets (from The White House) right next to each other.
They would seem to be somewhat contradictory.
To be fair, he never said that decline was within the U.S. Sounds kinda like he's admitting to causing the problem, if you ask me
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:40 AM   #170
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Schiff says that Congress will start looking into Trump's finances to see if it can uncover a reason for the White House's violation of the Magnitsky Act in failing to provide its conclusions to Congress re the murder of Khashoggi
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:42 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Does he have a reason to suspect to look there or is he fishing? Seems wrong to invade an aspect of someone's life unrelated to your case.
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:55 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No one in the administration has been indicted, let alone convicted, of any collusion with the Russians.
True. They just get convicted of trying to cover up their contacts with Russia.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...uilty-lied-fbi

"Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty in federal court Friday on charges of lying to the FBI about his contact with the Russian ambassador during the presidential transition."

The "No collusion" claims are like looking at a radar map showing a storm coming and insisting that it is not raining now and there is nothing to worry about.

Trump Jr. will probably get indicted for lying to congress about his meetings and we will still hear the claims of "no collusion" again since that is not the charge that will hit him.
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:58 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
True. They just get convicted of trying to cover up their contacts with Russia.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...uilty-lied-fbi

"Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty in federal court Friday on charges of lying to the FBI about his contact with the Russian ambassador during the presidential transition."

The "No collusion" claims are like looking at a radar map showing a storm coming and insisting that it is not raining now and there is nothing to worry about.

Trump Jr. will probably get indicted for lying to congress about his meetings and we will still hear the claims of "no collusion" again since that is not the charge that will hit him.
Convictions for lying about contacts with Russia is not evidence of collusion. It doesn't mean they were colluding with those Russians.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:02 AM   #174
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Mexican President Nieto said he condemns Trump's plan to begin construction of a wall.
"This is very, very upsetting to the Mexican people.But we'll get over it"
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:05 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Convictions for lying about contacts with Russia is not evidence of collusion. It doesn't mean they were colluding with those Russians.
You don't seem to know what "evidence" means.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:06 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Convictions for lying about contacts with Russia is not evidence of collusion. It doesn't mean they were colluding with those Russians.
So seeing evidence of smoke from many sources is not evidence of fire in your world. Noted and dismissed.

Having contact with Russians in a professional role as a working member of the US government and documenting it is not evidence of collusion. What Flynn did would have been enough to get an espionage investigation started on him had he not been a general although that should not have allowed him to slide by.

And before you chime in again with a stupid statement about it not being evidence, I had a secret clearance and attended many OPSEC briefings. Yes, that is evidence of collusion. But evidence /= a complete case.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:09 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You don't seem to know what "evidence" means.
Good point. Bad evidence is still evidence.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:11 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
And before you chime in again with a stupid statement about it not being evidence, I had a secret clearance and attended many OPSEC briefings. Yes, that is evidence of collusion. But evidence /= a complete case.
Just to add to this, in many cases unreported contacts with a foreign agent is enough to revoke a security clearance...especially if there are multiple contacts, evidence of attempts to cover up the contact (not just forgetting to mention it), or any other suspicious activity.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:14 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Good point. Bad evidence is still evidence.
You misspelled "weak".
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:18 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post

Quote:
Schiff says that Congress will start looking into Trump's finances to see if it can uncover a reason for the White House's violation of the Magnitsky Act in failing to provide its conclusions to Congress re the murder of Khashoggi
Does he have a reason to suspect to look there or is he fishing? Seems wrong to invade an aspect of someone's life unrelated to your case.
Of course there are reasons to suspect.

- Trump broke the law in not properly reporting to congress. There must obviously be SOME reason for him to do so

- Trump has failed to divest himself of his assets prior to taking office, or put things into a proper blind trust. This should raise a huge red flag with everyone, since it helps provide ample opportunities for bribes of various types

- Trump has had multiple business dealings with various Saudis in the past (They have provided needed cash when Trump was facing financial difficulties in the past)

IF Trump hadn't violated the Magnitsky Act, perhaps there wouldn't be a reason to investigate. If Trump had actually divested himself prior to taking office, then there would be less reason to suspect direct financial benefit.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:20 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Good point. Bad evidence is still evidence.
It is not bad evidence. Those with and without clearances serving in the military are trained to avoid contact that may be suspicious. Flynn ran the DIA. Your notion of "bad" here would be considered just short of a smoking gun in the military because Flynn has no excuse at all for not reporting or not knowing what he did was wrong.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:29 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Mexican President Nieto said he condemns Trump's plan to begin construction of a wall.
"This is very, very upsetting to the Mexican people.But we'll get over it"
https://instantrimshot.com/index.php...shot&play=true
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Last edited by Squeegee Beckenheim; 13th February 2019 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:33 AM   #183
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The relevant part is the intention to collude - the success is another question entirely.
And the lengths to which Trump&co. have gone to hide their contacts with Russians is strong evidence that they were trying to conspire.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:52 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
It is not bad evidence. Those with and without clearances serving in the military are trained to avoid contact that may be suspicious. Flynn ran the DIA. Your notion of "bad" here would be considered just short of a smoking gun in the military because Flynn has no excuse at all for not reporting or not knowing what he did was wrong.
The reason you ask about a subject and the reason a person lies about it are not necessarily the same. That needs to be established by the person making the argument.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:54 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The reason you ask about a subject and the reason a person lies about it are not necessarily the same.
No but you can assume that they have something to hide.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:55 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
No but you can assume that they have something to hide.
Of course. The issue is the jump to specifying what they are hiding.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:01 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That is mind boggling in its ignorance of how the pharmaceutical market works. The Japanese aren't getting their drugs subsidised by Americans.
Indeed - one of the ways that the US government pays more for drugs than it should is because it is prevented by law from negotiating bulk discounts.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:04 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The reason you ask about a subject and the reason a person lies about it are not necessarily the same. That needs to be established by the person making the argument.
You really do not understand what you are writing about. Flynn had a duty to report the contact in the first place without anybody asking. He was already in trouble before he lied.

One of the reasons for reporting contact is so that the contact patterns can be analysed by the US intel community. By not reporting his contact not only did Flynn cover up communication but block the intel community from doing the their job. As a former director of an intelligence agency he had to have known what he is doing.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:05 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Of course. The issue is the jump to specifying what they are hiding.
You don't know how investigations work, right?
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:06 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
You really do not understand what you are writing about. Flynn had a duty to report the contact in the first place without anybody asking. He was already in trouble before he lied.

One of the reasons for reporting contact is so that the contact patterns can be analysed by the US intel community. By not reporting his contact not only did Flynn cover up communication but block the intel community from doing the their job. As a former director of an intelligence agency he had to have known what he is doing.
I'm saying all of that is true. What I'm saying is the fact he did that does not support the explanation "to cover up collusion" more than any other possible reason.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:12 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Of course there are reasons to suspect.

- Trump has failed to divest himself of his assets prior to taking office, or put things into a proper blind trust. This should raise a huge red flag with everyone, since it helps provide ample opportunities for bribes of various types

.
Where is the evidence that the last sentence is true?
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:14 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Where is the evidence that the last sentence is true?
Trump Hotel Washington, for starters.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:23 AM   #193
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It's being reported that the Puerto Rico government is ready to take "immediate legal action" if Trump does divert disaster relief funds to pay for the wall
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:24 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump Hotel Washington, for starters.
So, no evidence that it supports bribes then?
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:34 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Where is the evidence that the last sentence is true?
Do yourself a favor and get a clue.

The issue of Trump and his many conflicts of interests have been covered extensively.

Here is one source to help you get started:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Wealth

Conflicts of interest

Before being inaugurated as president, Trump moved his businesses into a revocable trust run by his eldest sons and a business associate. According to ethics experts, as long as Trump continues to profit from his businesses, the measures taken by Trump do not help to avoid conflicts of interest. Because Trump would have knowledge of how his administration's policies would affect his businesses, ethics experts recommend that Trump sell off his businesses. While Trump has said that his organization would eschew "new foreign deals", the Trump Organization has since pursued expansions of its operations in Dubai, Scotland, and the Dominican Republic. Multiple lawsuits have been filed alleging that Trump is violating the emoluments clause of the United States Constitution, which forbids presidents from taking money from foreign governments, due to his business interests; they argue that these interests allow foreign governments to influence him. Previous presidents in the modern era have either divested their holdings or put them in blind trusts, and he is the first president to be sued over the emoluments clause. A suit, D.C. and Maryland v. Trump, brought in June 2017 by the attorneys general of Maryland and the District of Columbia, cleared three judicial hurdles to proceed to the discovery phase during 2018, with prosecutors issuing 38 subpoenas to Trump's businesses and cabinet departments in December before the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals issued a stay days later at the behest of the Justice Department, pending hearings in March 2019.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:37 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
So, no evidence that it supports bribes then?
As you are usually so... um... scrupulous about accuracy, you won't mind me pointing out that "provides ample opportunities for bribes" is different to what you posted.

Also, for corruption to be kept in check, holders of public office not only need to be clean, they need to be seen to be clean. Hiding one's financial dealings, in contravention of the law is not being seen to be clean and is (obviously) breaking the law of itself.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:44 AM   #197
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
So, no evidence that it supports bribes then?
I guess you don't count it as evidence that, as soon as Trump was elected, his Hotel, which was set to lose a lot of money due to vacancy, suddenly got massively booked at top price for months in advance by the Saudis.
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Old 13th February 2019, 10:17 AM   #198
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
As you are usually so... um... scrupulous about accuracy, you won't mind me pointing out that "provides ample opportunities for bribes" is different to what you posted.

Also, for corruption to be kept in check, holders of public office not only need to be clean, they need to be seen to be clean. Hiding one's financial dealings, in contravention of the law is not being seen to be clean and is (obviously) breaking the law of itself.
It would be nice to see presented the evidence that there is a correlation between lack of blind trusts and opportunities for bribery such that when someone says it provides ample opportunities, I have reason to think they are not making it up.
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Old 13th February 2019, 10:21 AM   #199
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Prediction: this will be the last continuation of this thread as it devolves into everyone else arguing with a single poster who doesn't recognize causality much less the accepted meanings of words.
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Old 13th February 2019, 10:38 AM   #200
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Prediction: this will be the last continuation of this thread as it devolves into everyone else arguing with a single poster who doesn't recognize causality much less the accepted meanings of words.
Can someone tell me, who has the first post in this (new) thread? Apparently, it is someone on my ignore list, so I can't see the thread without going to the old one and clicking the link to the new one.
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