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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 13th March 2019, 11:50 AM   #1041
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I'd settle for him getting out after 6 years, penniless.
Force him to live the rest of his life in a cardboard box in an alley in Chicago. That'll work.
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Old 13th March 2019, 11:54 AM   #1042
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Force him to live the rest of his life in a cardboard box in an alley in Chicago. That'll work.
I'll settle for life in the skeeviest Motel 6 in the country, sans housekeeping services. After he's released from the NY state prison system that is.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:04 PM   #1043
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As it's a thread about trump I think it's important that we get Trump's own words.
I would appreciate a link with the posts, however, though I don't have access to Twitter during the daytime.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:07 PM   #1044
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That doesn't count the sentence he's going to get from the new state charges.
If convicted, of course.

In our desire for retribution, we should not abandon core principles.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:20 PM   #1045
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
If convicted, of course.

In our desire for retribution, we should not abandon core principles.
They won't have to .Manafort seems to have been swimming in the sewer most of his adult life.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:20 PM   #1046
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Quote:
That doesn't count the sentence he's going to get from the new state charges.
If convicted, of course.
In our desire for retribution, we should not abandon core principles.
True, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

I guess its easy when you're dealing with someone who's already been found guilty to assume the worst of them.

By the way, is anyone familiar enough with the new charges to know if they are impacted by New York's double jeopardy laws? There does seem to be some overlap between the charges from his first trial and the new state charges? There does seem to be some overlap between them.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:21 PM   #1047
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
From the “It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy” files:

CNN - Prosecutors with the Manhattan district attorney's office announced state fraud charges Wednesday against Paul Manafort.

The announcement adds to the legal trouble for Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, who is already facing years in prison on federal charges.
And if found guilty, those convictions are pardon-proof! Trump will have nothing to dangle in front of him for his keeping his mouth shut.

Also, in all probability, if found guilty, he would be transferred directly from federal prison to New York state penitentiary to serve whatever time he gets there after he finishes serving his federal time

Manafort really could end up dying in prison, made all the more likely if he is as sick as he claims to be. If so, then good job - I have no sympathy for him. He is a lying, cheating piece of filth whose greed has almost certainly led to the deaths of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...ncing-gap.html
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:24 PM   #1048
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'll settle for life in the skeeviest Motel 6 in the country, sans housekeeping services. After he's released from the NY state prison system that is.
There are millions of Americans who live on the streets. Manafort lived the high life for 68 years. Give him a taste of of how many people who aren't criminals are forced to live. He can get SNAP to feed himself.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:27 PM   #1049
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
True, innocent until proven guilty and all that.

I guess its easy when you're dealing with someone who's already been found guilty to assume the worst of them.
Of course, the NY State prosecutors will be able to use all the sworn statements that he has made under oath, and all the admissions of guilt he has made in both the Virginia and Washington DC federal trials, as evidence in their action against him. I think the chances of a not guilty verdict rest somehwere between ZERO and ZIPPO.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
By the way, is anyone familiar enough with the new charges to know if they are impacted by New York's double jeopardy laws? There does seem to be some overlap between the charges from his first trial and the new state charges? There does seem to be some overlap between them.

Residential mortgage fraud - 3 counts
Attempting to commit residential mortgage fraud - 1 count
Conspiracy - 3 counts
Falsifying business records - 8 counts
Running a scheme to defraud - 1 count

Total 16 indictments.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:28 PM   #1050
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Manafort really could end up dying in prison, made all the more likely if he is as sick as he claims to be. If so, then good job - I have no sympathy for him. He is a lying, cheating piece of filth whose greed has almost certainly led to the deaths of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...ncing-gap.html
Am I the only one who doesn't buy this wheelchair act? Only a year ago, I watched him almost run up the courthouse steps in a five thousand dollar suit.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:53 PM   #1051
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Quote:
By the way, is anyone familiar enough with the new charges to know if they are impacted by New York's double jeopardy laws? There does seem to be some overlap between the charges from his first trial and the new state charges? There does seem to be some overlap between them.
Residential mortgage fraud - 3 counts
Attempting to commit residential mortgage fraud - 1 count
Conspiracy - 3 counts
Falsifying business records - 8 counts
Running a scheme to defraud - 1 count

Total 16 indictments.
Yes, but at least some of the charges Manafort faced in the first trial involved bank fraud related to real estate. I'm just concerned that some of these new charges might get thrown out because they are related to incidents and charges he's been on trial for federally.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:01 PM   #1052
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Am I the only one who buys this wheelchair act? Only a year ago, I watched him almost run up the courthouse steps in a five thousand dollar suit.
Don't you mean "only one who doesn't buy his wheelchair act"?

It certainly does look like he's trying to evoke some false sympathy.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:10 PM   #1053
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Don't you mean "only one who doesn't buy his wheelchair act"?

It certainly does look like he's trying to evoke some false sympathy.
Yes...I mean no, I don't buy it. Damn, that's a double negative.

Thanks, I'll change it.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:13 PM   #1054
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As it's a thread about trump I think it's important that we get Trump's own words.
Indeed. I appreciate your efforts, thanks.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:22 PM   #1055
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics of this.
Pretty much any business/organization with a decent security group will have twitter completely blocked off. Thus, even if their employer is fine with them coming here on lunch/breaks they can't get to the feed or view tweets embedded in peoples posts.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:33 PM   #1056
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, but at least some of the charges Manafort faced in the first trial involved bank fraud related to real estate. I'm just concerned that some of these new charges might get thrown out because they are related to incidents and charges he's been on trial for federally.
Well here is my understanding of why these might not be "double jeopardy".

The defendant Commits three Crimes - crime "A", crime "B" and crime "C"

The defendant is charged with two of those crimes "A" and "B"

The evidence used to convict the defendant includes admissions that he committed crime "C"

Since he has not been charged with crime "C" he can still be charged with it. The only occasions on which he might not be able to be charged with crime "C" are are if his admission to crime "C" came after invoking his 5A rights, and a subsequent a non-prosecution agreement where he has been granted immunity from prosecution for that crime..... by the Feds.

However, even if the defendant and Federal prosecutors came to a non-prosecution agreement or an immunity deal, the State prosecutors would not be bound by it.


Apply this template to Paul Manafort....

Crime A = Tax evasion
Crime B = Bank fraud
Crime C = Mortgage fraud
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:47 PM   #1057
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics of this. CS reposts Trump's twitter feed so that people will see it. He has to repost, because people aren't looking at the twitter feed itself. People aren't looking at the feed because they find it unpleasant to look at. People are grateful to CS for showing it to them anyway.

I don't have twitter at work. I've had my IT people block twitter and reddit.

I rely on Capt Swoop's postings to keep me up with the latest in Dolt 45's stupdity
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:55 PM   #1058
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Quote:
Yes, but at least some of the charges Manafort faced in the first trial involved bank fraud related to real estate. I'm just concerned that some of these new charges might get thrown out because they are related to incidents and charges he's been on trial for federally.
Well here is my understanding of why these might not be "double jeopardy".

The defendant Commits three Crimes - crime "A", crime "B" and crime "C"

The defendant is charged with two of those crimes "A" and "B"

The evidence used to convict the defendant includes admissions that he committed crime "C"

Since he has not been charged with crime "C" he can still be charged with it. The only occasions on which he might not be able to be charged with crime "C" are are if his admission to crime "C" came after invoking his 5A rights, and a subsequent a non-prosecution agreement where he has been granted immunity from prosecution for that crime..... by the Feds.
Yes, I get all that.

My concern (in this context) is that the Feds have charged someone with crimes A and B, and now the state is coming in to likewise charge someone with the same crimes.

Quote:
Apply this template to Paul Manafort....

Crime A = Tax evasion
Crime B = Bank fraud
Crime C = Mortgage fraud
In Manafort's case, one of the crimes he's already been convicted of federally involve taking out a loan on a property that already had mortgage debt, so the list of federal crimes may already include a 'C'.

(In some cases, I'm not sure what the difference between bank fraud and mortgage fraud is, since there does seem to be some overlap.)
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:24 PM   #1059
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https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...85093158141953

Quote:
An attorney who said he was speaking with President Donald Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani reassured Michael Cohen in an April 2018 email that Cohen could "sleep well tonight" because he had "friends in high places," according to a copy of an email obtained by CNN.
@GloriaBorger
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:40 PM   #1060
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
What a grammatical catastrophe that is. I'm honestly not sure what it says.
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:42 PM   #1061
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
What a grammatical catastrophe that is. I'm honestly not sure what it says.
The joys of a twitter character limit.

I think it's that CNN has an April 2018 email that dangled a pardon for Cohen - or at least told Cohen that he had "friends in high places"
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:50 PM   #1062
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics of this. CS reposts Trump's twitter feed so that people will see it. He has to repost, because people aren't looking at the twitter feed itself. People aren't looking at the feed because they find it unpleasant to look at. People are grateful to CS for showing it to them anyway.
Or, certain Trump supporters are annoyed to see the Tweets in this thread because they'd rather not have to see them.
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:16 PM   #1063
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Trump Tweets

“Double Standard - Former FBI lawyer (Lisa Page) admits being told to go easy on Clinton.” Very unfair!
@FoxNews

“The Lisa Page (FBI) transcript also confirms earlier reporting that Page testified Russian Collusion was still unproven when Special Counsel Robert Mueller was appointed.” Catherine Herridge,
@FoxNews
In other words they appointed someone when there was (and is) no crime. Bad!
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:19 PM   #1064
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Trump Tweets

I agree with Rand Paul. This is a total disgrace and should NEVER happen to another President!

Senator Rand Paul
@RandPaul
This deserves more attention! FBI Mistress, Lisa Page, confirmed to House Judiciary, there was an anti-Trump Insurance Policy and it's the fake Russian investigation! She admits there was almost no evidence on collusion, yet they continued with WITCH HUNT!
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:31 PM   #1065
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics of this. CS reposts Trump's twitter feed so that people will see it. He has to repost, because people aren't looking at the twitter feed itself. People aren't looking at the feed because they find it unpleasant to look at. People are grateful to CS for showing it to them anyway.
I don't have Twitter at all. CS is taking one for the team.
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:58 PM   #1066
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You don't have to "have" twitter. You can read it just fine without an account. Just Google "Donald Trump Twitter". I dare you.
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Old 13th March 2019, 05:00 PM   #1067
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I likewise don't have twitter.

I do have access via the web, but I'd have to check multiple times per day to find any updates. Such is too high a price to pay for know the current POTUS nonsense.

Thus, I appreciate not having to see it repeatedly.

Captain_Swoop has my undying gratitude.

I would contribute to a Captain_Swoop GoFundMe.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:41 PM   #1068
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics of this. CS reposts Trump's twitter feed so that people will see it. He has to repost, because people aren't looking at the twitter feed itself. People aren't looking at the feed because they find it unpleasant to look at. People are grateful to CS for showing it to them anyway.
Maybe you can wrap your head around this:

In 2016 my name and email account were hijacked by A Trump troll to create a bogus Twitter account to bombard Twitter with Trump lies and indoctrination. Twitter deactivated the account. I discovered the hijack when I tried to open a Twitter acount and was unable to do so, because of some goddamn Trump troll.
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:55 AM   #1069
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
“The Lisa Page (FBI) transcript also confirms earlier reporting that Page testified Russian Collusion was still unproven when Special Counsel Robert Mueller was appointed.”
This really highlights the stupidity. If it were proven, there would be no need to investigate it.
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Old 14th March 2019, 03:29 AM   #1070
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Trump Tweets

“Democrats are frantic to throw something else at the President. That’s why you saw those 81 subpoenas. It’s ridiculous. Just because your still upset over an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago, you should not be allowed to ruin people’s lives like this.” Lara Trump, @FoxNews
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:08 AM   #1071
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No one seems to have posted the details of Manafort's sentencing. This is from the New York Times:
Quote:
A federal judge on Wednesday nearly doubled the prison sentence of President Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, to seven and a half years, denouncing him as a man who “spent a significant portion of his career gaming the system.” Minutes later, the Manhattan district attorney filed a raft of state criminal charges, including mortgage fraud, that could ensure that Mr. Manafort remains behind bars even if the president decides — as he has appeared to hint — to pardon Mr. Manafort for his crimes. Convictions for state crimes are not subject to federal pardons.

Ever since his initial bail hearing, [Judge Amy Berman Jackson of United States District Court in Washington] said, he had misled her and the prosecutors, part of what she called his determined efforts to obscure the facts. Even on his sentencing day, she implied, he appeared to be making a play for a presidential pardon by wrongly suggesting that he was merely the victim of overzealous prosecutors who had hoped to prove that the Trump campaign had conspired with the Russian government to tilt the 2016 election. Link
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Old 14th March 2019, 05:43 AM   #1072
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This really highlights the stupidity. If it were proven, there would be no need to investigate it.
I thought the same thing. Thanks for putting it so concisely.
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"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

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Old 14th March 2019, 07:33 AM   #1073
Crossbow
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

“Democrats are frantic to throw something else at the President. That’s why you saw those 81 subpoenas. It’s ridiculous. Just because your still upset over an election that happened 2 1/2 years ago, you should not be allowed to ruin people’s lives like this.” Lara Trump, @FoxNews
Now these are the sorts of Tweets that get Trump, the president, motivated to send out his Tweets.

In fact, if 50 stupid, idiotic, lying, Trump supporting news commentators (Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc.) actually told Trump to jump off a bridge via Tweets, then I expect that Trump would quickly jump off of that bridge in order to placate them.
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On 15 FEB 2019 BobTheCoward said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
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Old 14th March 2019, 08:04 AM   #1074
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Now these are the sorts of Tweets that get Trump, the president, motivated to send out his Tweets.

In fact, if 50 stupid, idiotic, lying, Trump supporting news commentators (Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc.) actually told Trump to jump off a bridge via Tweets, then I expect that Trump would quickly jump off of that bridge in order to placate them.

Only if it was a very, very low bridge.

Trump is fundamentally a coward, and his sense of self-preservation would override anything which might cause him personal injury.
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:02 AM   #1075
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
No one seems to have posted the details of Manafort's sentencing. This is from the New York Times:
This all got me to thinking (I know, why start now?) of a hypothetical.

If Trump pardoned Manafort tomorrow, would NY arrest and incarcerate Manafort denying him bail because he had been convicted of witness tampering? And would they send him to Rikers to await trial?
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:23 AM   #1076
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Quote:
In fact, if 50 stupid, idiotic, lying, Trump supporting news commentators (Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc.) actually told Trump to jump off a bridge via Tweets, then I expect that Trump would quickly jump off of that bridge in order to placate them.
Only if it was a very, very low bridge.
And a very short one, since he can't walk very far with his bone spurs.

Or is he allowed to drive his golf cart onto the bridge to find a jumping spot?
Quote:
Trump is fundamentally a coward, and his sense of self-preservation would override anything which might cause him personal injury.
How can you say he's a coward? He claimed that he would personally rush into a building with an active shooter to save lives! If making boastful claims like that isn't a sign of bravery, what is?

http://fortune.com/2018/02/26/trump-stoneman-shooter/

And don't forget, he knows the horrors of war. No, he didn't serve in Vietnam, but he said dating women was like his "own personal vietnam" because of the chance of getting diseases.

https://people.com/politics/trump-bo...sonal-vietnam/
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:25 AM   #1077
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And a very short one, since he can't walk very far with his bone spurs.
And it musn't have stairs on it.

Quote:
And don't forget, he knows the horrors of war. No, he didn't serve in Vietnam, but he said dating women was like his "own personal vietnam" because of the chance of getting diseases.
He also thinks that having a lot of money inherited from his dad is a sacrifice he's made.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:25 AM   #1078
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This all got me to thinking (I know, why start now?) of a hypothetical.

If Trump pardoned Manafort tomorrow, would NY arrest and incarcerate Manafort denying him bail because he had been convicted of witness tampering? And would they send him to Rikers to await trial?
Yes. When the NY charges were filed, Seth Abramson speculated it was precisely because they felt they couldn't afford a window for a Manafort pardon + skipping the country.

[ETA] Well, I don't know about Rikers, but they certainly wouldn't assign him bail.

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Old 14th March 2019, 11:30 AM   #1079
Steve
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And a very short one, since he can't walk very far with his bone spurs.

Or is he allowed to drive his golf cart onto the bridge to find a jumping spot?

How can you say he's a coward? He claimed that he would personally rush into a building with an active shooter to save lives! If making boastful claims like that isn't a sign of bravery, what is?

http://fortune.com/2018/02/26/trump-stoneman-shooter/

And don't forget, he knows the horrors of war. No, he didn't serve in Vietnam, but he said dating women was like his "own personal vietnam" because of the chance of getting diseases.

https://people.com/politics/trump-bo...sonal-vietnam/
Only the best women! (had to be said)
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:49 AM   #1080
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This all got me to thinking (I know, why start now?) of a hypothetical.

If Trump pardoned Manafort tomorrow, would NY arrest and incarcerate Manafort denying him bail because he had been convicted of witness tampering? And would they send him to Rikers to await trial?
Well, he has been indicted so he is subject to arrest and detainment now. At the moment, he is a prisoner of the Feds so he is in their jurisdiction, but if he were pardoned, then NY police will be waiting outside the federal prison he is going to, and he will likely be cuffed and taken to New York for arraignment. I would expect him to be remanded in custody because he is both a flight risk, and has a history of witness tampering and destruction of documentary evidence. Rikers is a possibility.



Manafort is in for a very tough next few years... good job too. He's a scumbag.
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