ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags robert kraft , sex scandals , sports incidents

Reply
Old 23rd February 2019, 01:58 AM   #121
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,764
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Seeing reports that another big name that's wrapped up in this human trafficking case is billionaire political superdonor John Childs. I don't know if he is the "bigger name than Kraft" hinted at in previous articles.

Doesn't Tiger Woods live there?


I mean if we are going to be speculating the other big name and all.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 02:14 AM   #122
ProBonoShill
Master Poster
 
ProBonoShill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,227
Robert Kraft is now saying that the prostitutes attacked him, screaming "THIS IS MAGA PUSSY!!!"
__________________
"CD does not prove 9/11 was an inside job. It only proves CD"- FalseFlag
ProBonoShill is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 03:05 AM   #123
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,949
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
ESPN just blew up with this.

I can’t really manufacture much outrage about seeing a prostitute, except the trafficking factor of the establishment if that is occurring.

Old rich dude pays for a handy isn’t really news.
Considering how rich he is it's a wonder why he didn't just discretely pay for an escort instead. It's not like money or lack of connections should be an issue.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner

Last edited by Arcade22; 23rd February 2019 at 03:07 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 03:23 AM   #124
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,949
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Isn't "entrapment" when the cops break a law to catch a lawbreaker?
Pretty sure "entrapment" means deliberately inducing or inciting someone into committing a criminal offence that they would otherwise not commit, although other standards of allowable conduct exists with regards to what you can call "crime and evidence provocation".

Allowing a criminal operation, whether it's prostitution or drug dealing, to continue in order to collect additional evidence and to allow criminals to incriminate themselves is surely legal everywhere although one can always question whether or not they should have shut down the operation at an earlier date.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner

Last edited by Arcade22; 23rd February 2019 at 03:24 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 03:32 AM   #125
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,949
Quote:
President Donald Trump said Friday it is “very sad” that New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, who is a close friend of the president, was charged with allegedly soliciting prostitution at a spa in Florida.

“It’s very sad. I was very surprised to see it,” the president told reporters in the Oval Office. “He’s proclaimed his innocence totally, but I’m very surprised to see it.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...tution-1181249

Sad. Very sad.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 06:58 AM   #126
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,030
John Childs now has a warrant for his arrest, according to Daily Mail.

I thought that the biggest name was going to be Mick Jagger or Rosanne Barr.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 07:33 AM   #127
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,030
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Considering how rich he is it's a wonder why he didn't just discretely pay for an escort instead. It's not like money or lack of connections should be an issue.
We can't know that he isn't doing both. Expensive escort and strip mall hooker.

But there is something that luxury escort madams are unlikely to provide. That is Chinese grandmothers. Look at the mugshots and the ages.

Also you can see that some or many of these prostitutes are traffickers themselves. It seems like there may be complications where victim and perpetrator are potentially interchangeable. I'm not sure.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 09:08 AM   #128
RandyK47
Scholar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 92
I wonder what if anything will the NFL do? I don’t know their ethics standards and if they will or can ask Kraft to step down as a team owner. I imagine if he us found guilty that the NFL will at least fine him and have him not actively run the team for say a year like they did to DeBartolo in San Francisco.
RandyK47 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 09:56 AM   #129
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 13,072
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Hahahahaha! Ah... no. He's obscenely wealthy. He will never face any real consequences.
He'll probably get a stiffer penalty from the NFL than the courts. The league personal conduct policy covers owners as well.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 10:36 AM   #130
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,301
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
He'll probably get a stiffer penalty . . .
In this case it will be a "stiffy penalty."
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 11:06 AM   #131
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,712
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
In this case it will be a "stiffy penalty."
..penilety?
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 11:38 AM   #132
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,301
One of the names on the list is "Richard Palmer"...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 11:43 AM   #133
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,301
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
One of the names on the list is "Richard Palmer"...
Well, we know he's innocent, don't we?
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 11:46 AM   #134
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,301
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
..penilety?
Not sure the stiffness of the penility is the real issue here.
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 01:02 PM   #135
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,702
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
He'll probably get a stiffer penalty from the NFL than the courts. The league personal conduct policy covers owners as well.
Was he caught kneeling during the national anthem to protest against African-Americans as well?
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 03:05 PM   #136
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,376
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We can't know that he isn't doing both. Expensive escort and strip mall hooker.

But there is something that luxury escort madams are unlikely to provide. That is Chinese grandmothers. Look at the mugshots and the ages.

Also you can see that some or many of these prostitutes are traffickers themselves. It seems like there may be complications where victim and perpetrator are potentially interchangeable. I'm not sure.
But are the mug shots of the working girls, the victims, who we assume did not get arested. Or are the grannies the Madams?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2019, 04:33 PM   #137
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,529
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I thought that porn actors receive paychecks instead of issue paychecks.
It's conceivable in some cases an actor (or actress) is also the producer of a porn film, in which case they would be paying an actor or access to have sex with them.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2019, 02:20 AM   #138
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,149
Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Are you for real? WTF with this bull ****.
It's pretty simple. This is a link Carlitos posted above:
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...an/2920354002/
Quote:
"These girls are there all day long, into the evening. They can't leave and they're performing sex acts," Currey said. "Some of them may tell us they're OK, but they're not. We know that… even though we may have charges on some of them, we'd rather them be victims."
Surely you can read between the lines of that quote?

"Even if they tell us they're OK, we know that they are not OK"
and especially this part:
"even though we may have charges on some of them, we'd rather them be victims"

So their choice here is to be charged with a crime, or be a victim.

Quote:
Sure! Sex trafficking victims don't count. Or do you think they are all lying as Puppycow seems to think?
I'm not saying they're all lying, I'm saying that the way the police have set it up, they have no choice but to say they are victims.

If they say "I did this of my own free will" then they are admitting to a crime. They can be prosecuted accordingly. If, on the other hand, they say that they are victims of trafficking, then they are not responsible and will not be charged.

They may indeed be victims, but they really have no other choice than to say that they are victims.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2019, 03:35 PM   #139
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,009
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
It's pretty simple. This is a link Carlitos posted above:
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...an/2920354002/


Surely you can read between the lines of that quote?

"Even if they tell us they're OK, we know that they are not OK"
and especially this part:
"even though we may have charges on some of them, we'd rather them be victims"

So their choice here is to be charged with a crime, or be a victim.



I'm not saying they're all lying, I'm saying that the way the police have set it up, they have no choice but to say they are victims.

If they say "I did this of my own free will" then they are admitting to a crime. They can be prosecuted accordingly. If, on the other hand, they say that they are victims of trafficking, then they are not responsible and will not be charged.

They may indeed be victims, but they really have no other choice than to say that they are victims.
Reading between the lines, if they say that they are victims of trafficking then they are, in fact, innocent of the charges leveled against them and will not be charged. I believe that is what Vero Beach Police Chief David Currey is saying. Which is different from your last post stating that they will be compelled to testify if they say that they are "victims" (as if that carries some sort of social stigma).
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2019, 07:34 PM   #140
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,149
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Reading between the lines, if they say that they are victims of trafficking then they are, in fact, innocent of the charges leveled against them and will not be charged. I believe that is what Vero Beach Police Chief David Currey is saying. Which is different from your last post stating that they will be compelled to testify if they say that they are "victims" (as if that carries some sort of social stigma).
I don't think you understood what I said.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 09:02 AM   #141
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,931
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
John Childs now has a warrant for his arrest, according to Daily Mail.

I thought that the biggest name was going to be Mick Jagger or Rosanne Barr.
My prediction is that it will be Rush Limbaugh
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 09:50 AM   #142
SuburbanTurkey
Graduate Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Considering how rich he is it's a wonder why he didn't just discretely pay for an escort instead. It's not like money or lack of connections should be an issue.
Man is certainly rich enough he could fly his private jet out to a legal brothel in Nevada, spend a small fortune, and be back in Boston by dinner time. It's pretty indefensible for him to be going to some illegal rub-and-tug shop in Florida that is likely staffed by trafficked women.

Seems likely that it is only a matter of time before it is confirmed decisively that these prostitutes were the victims of international trafficking. I imagine the story will take a turn from snickering schadenfreude to one of stark disgust. I also find it unlikely that someone like Kraft is just going to walk into some place like that without knowing the owners or other patrons pretty well. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop on this one.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 25th February 2019 at 09:55 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 09:53 AM   #143
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,712
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Man is certainly rich enough he could fly his private jet out to a legal brothel in Nevada, spend a small fortune, and be back in Boston by dinner time. It's pretty indefensible for him to be going to some illegal rub-and-tug shop in Florida.
The base illegality and coarseness may well be the attraction
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 10:41 AM   #144
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,490
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The base illegality and coarseness may well be the attraction

Jay Leno - “What the hell were you thinking?”

Hugh Grant - “I did a bad thing.”
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 11:56 AM   #145
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,030
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But are the mug shots of the working girls, the victims, who we assume did not get arested. Or are the grannies the Madams?
Hard to tell. The grannies are charged with prostitution and some with trafficking some with racketeering and various other related crimes. None are charged with false imprisonment.

I linked the Daily Mail upthread which has listed charges and mugshots.

It is possible that there are prostitutes which weren't charged at all and so we don't know about them.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 12:00 PM   #146
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,030
About Hugh Grant... the street prostitute that he picked up was transgender. He may have actually wanted that, rather than making a "mistake". Similarly, Kraft may have actually wanted who was at the massage parlor.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 12:53 PM   #147
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 43,346
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't know the circumstances here, I'll wait for more evidence. But do some of you have no clue what sex-trafficking is actually about?
Pterodacytl seems to be ignorant.

The point about Sex Trafficking is that the women has been coerced and forced into prostitution. It's not a case of two freeing consenting adults making a business deal. It's what used to be called "White Slavery".
A good example is that loan sharks often "sell" one of their "cusjtomers" to a prostitution ring which then makes the women pay off the loan by prostitution.
It's very ugly,and I get annoyed when those who favor legalaization of Prostituion..which I support try to ignore this. In face, it's a strong argument in favor of legalization. If it's legal, you can regulate it, and eliminate a lot of the abuses.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 25th February 2019 at 01:00 PM.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 12:55 PM   #148
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 43,346
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
He'll probably get a stiffer penalty from the NFL than the courts. The league personal conduct policy covers owners as well.
Yeah, his fellow owners are not happy that Kraft damaged the NFL brand name with this stunt. No, they won't force him to sell, but they wild do something to make their displeasure known.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 12:58 PM   #149
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 43,346
It that this prostitution ring was heavily involved with Human Trafficking that makes this worse for Kraft. If had been somehow caught in bed with a high priced hooker where it was clearly two consenting adults it would not be nearly as bad.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 01:57 PM   #150
jadebox
Graduate Poster
 
jadebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,467
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, his fellow owners are not happy that Kraft damaged the NFL brand name with this stunt. No, they won't force him to sell, but they wild do something to make their displeasure known.
As long as he didn't kneel ...
jadebox is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 02:03 PM   #151
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,301
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Pterodacytl seems to be ignorant.

The point about Sex Trafficking is that the women has been coerced and forced into prostitution. It's not a case of two freeing consenting adults making a business deal.
It often is just two consenting adults making a business deal. A person has access to an event like the Superbowl. They say to another adult, "There's good money involved if I get you into the event so you can have sex for money with rich people. We can split the money."

The second adult consents. They head off to the Superbowl, make a bunch of money but get raided by police. One of those consenting adults is now a human trafficker.

Human trafficing is a catchall phrase that makes innocuous activity sound really bad in order to help with conviction rates.
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."

Last edited by qayak; 25th February 2019 at 02:05 PM.
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 02:17 PM   #152
autumn1971
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,665
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Man is certainly rich enough he could fly his private jet out to a legal brothel in Nevada, spend a small fortune, and be back in Boston by dinner time. It's pretty indefensible for him to be going to some illegal rub-and-tug shop in Florida that is likely staffed by trafficked women.

Seems likely that it is only a matter of time before it is confirmed decisively that these prostitutes were the victims of international trafficking. I imagine the story will take a turn from snickering schadenfreude to one of stark disgust. I also find it unlikely that someone like Kraft is just going to walk into some place like that without knowing the owners or other patrons pretty well. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop on this one.
I think that anonymity is a factor.
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 05:23 PM   #153
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,030
Originally Posted by Yahoo Sports
...The probable cause affidavit, which comes via Olivia Hitchcock of the Palm Beach Post, for Robert Kraft alleges that he visited the Orchids of Asia Day Spa on January 19 and 20 this year and includes information taken from video surveillance on both visits.

According to the affidavit, Kraft paid cash at the front desk and then went to another room where he proceeded to take off all his clothes. On the first visit, Kraft was allegedly accompanied by two women who massaged him before performing sex acts. The second visit was with one woman, but otherwise unfolded the same way.

A police officer stopped Kraft’s car as he left on January 19 and the officer asking Kraft, who was a passenger, for identification. Kraft produced a Massachusetts drivers license.

January 20 was the day of the AFC Championship Game and Kraft was seen leaving the establishment around 11:15 a.m. Eastern Time. The game started in Kansas City shortly before 7 p.m. ET...
https://sports.yahoo.com/robert-kraf...193946113.html

After being stopped by police right after his first visit he goes back there again the next day. Then wins the championship later in the day.

It's called "Like A Boss".
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

Last edited by William Parcher; 25th February 2019 at 05:27 PM.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 08:12 PM   #154
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,490
Patriots Owner Robert Kraft Arrested in Prostitution Sting

Originally Posted by qayak View Post
It often is just two consenting adults making a business deal. A person has access to an event like the Superbowl. They say to another adult, "There's good money involved if I get you into the event so you can have sex for money with rich people. We can split the money."

The second adult consents. They head off to the Superbowl, make a bunch of money but get raided by police. One of those consenting adults is now a human trafficker.

Human trafficing is a catchall phrase that makes innocuous activity sound really bad in order to help with conviction rates.


What does your fictional story have to do with this case?
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 08:34 PM   #155
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
 
Darth Rotor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 38,527
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Tom Brady could beat the President to death with a hooker and the team wouldn't be dissolved.
He might even be able to stand for election if he did that.
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I keep on wondering why these rich idiotic men do not simply go to some place like Nevada and simply hire the men and/or women that they want.

After all, these men can definitely afford such an arrangement and such an arrangement would keep them out of the newspapers.
I wonder the same thing.
__________________
Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission.
"Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis
Darth Rotor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 08:42 PM   #156
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 43,346
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Pretty sure "entrapment" means deliberately inducing or inciting someone into committing a criminal offence that they would otherwise not commit, although other standards of allowable conduct exists with regards to what you can call "crime and evidence provocation".

Allowing a criminal operation, whether it's prostitution or drug dealing, to continue in order to collect additional evidence and to allow criminals to incriminate themselves is surely legal everywhere although one can always question whether or not they should have shut down the operation at an earlier date.
It seems the operation was aimed not at the johns, but at the people running the Prostituion ring because of heavy involvement with Human Trafficking, the new PC term for White Slavery.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 08:50 PM   #157
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,547
- "Entrapment" doesn't mean "You let me do it and didn't stop me."

- Sex slavery and prostitution are completely different things. If Robert Kraft had paid a fully free and willing woman to errrr.... shingle his roof I would declare this the biggest nothing burger in a while. The fact that the could have easily gotten a high class fully free prostitute to act out whatever sick role play fantasy he could imagine but didn't makes this even worse.

- Do we have any inkling who this "Even bigger person involved" is or was that some reporter or police insider talking out of their ass?
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2019, 10:08 PM   #158
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,149
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
- "Entrapment" doesn't mean "You let me do it and didn't stop me."

- Sex slavery and prostitution are completely different things. If Robert Kraft had paid a fully free and willing woman to errrr.... shingle his roof I would declare this the biggest nothing burger in a while. The fact that the could have easily gotten a high class fully free prostitute to act out whatever sick role play fantasy he could imagine but didn't makes this even worse.

- Do we have any inkling who this "Even bigger person involved" is or was that some reporter or police insider talking out of their ass?
Perhaps he was counting on not being recognized by the prostitute. A "high class" prostitute might be more likely to recognize him and figure out who he is in real life. At a place like this, just another unremarkable old man.

If there was a "bigger person involved" I think we would have heard about it. I'm going with "dubious rumor" until there is evidence otherwise.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Last edited by Puppycow; 25th February 2019 at 10:10 PM.
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2019, 06:35 AM   #159
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,030
Daily Mail said that John Childs was the biggest name. I mentioned it in post #126. He had been proposed as the biggest name even before that.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2019, 06:49 AM   #160
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,547
Okay "Bigger name" being used rather arbitrarily there in my opinion.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.