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Old 18th May 2018, 04:00 PM   #1921
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did someone actually say toilets are hierarchical because you can fit in more urinals in the blokes than seats?
Yes, that actually happened.

Plumbing is patriarchy.
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Old 18th May 2018, 04:08 PM   #1922
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Yes, that actually happened.

Plumbing is patriarchy.
Does that mean clothes/fashion and toiletries are a matriachy because there is more choice for women?
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Old 18th May 2018, 04:18 PM   #1923
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Does that mean clothes/fashion and toiletries are a matriachy because there is more choice for women?
Funny you should ask. A couple of summers ago the A/C was seriously on the fritz where I work. The women quickly adapted, wearing sleeveless summer dresses which were only mildly pushing the envelope within the genre of business casual. The men completely failed to adapt, of course. Their limbs and shoulders remained covered at all times.
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Old 18th May 2018, 04:24 PM   #1924
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Funny you should ask. A couple of summers ago the A/C was seriously on the fritz where I work. The women quickly adapted, wearing sleeveless summer dresses which were only mildly pushing the envelope within the genre of business casual. The men completely failed to adapt, of course. Their limbs and shoulders remained covered at all times.
Lack of choice in the smart casual and not hot for men.

Is the curse to all men

The tyrannical hold on clothing material by the established matriachy never fails to sadden me.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

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Old 18th May 2018, 04:43 PM   #1925
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Lack of choice in the smart casual and not hot for men.

Is the curse to all men

The tyrannical hold on clothing material by the established matriachy never fails to sadden me.
#SmashTheMatriarchy
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Old 18th May 2018, 04:52 PM   #1926
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
#SmashTheMatriarchy
Lol
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 19th May 2018, 03:19 AM   #1927
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I do not associate getting paid more with what it means to be masculine. The most masculine people I've known are in blue-collar jobs at best.
Well too bad that's not what the evidence shows, because it clearly shows that men are being paid more than women for the same work.
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Old 19th May 2018, 03:34 AM   #1928
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Gender identity. Kind of a large part of this thread.
Got any evidence for this "gender identity"? I find it interesting that, almost immediately after homosexuality was removed from the DSM, something entirely "new" popped up in there - gender identity disorder.

Quote:
EDIT: To be clear, I'm saying it is pretty accepted in the medical community researching such things that like homosexuality, that has a biological component.
So where's the evidence then? Or are we just supposed to take the word of the "medical community researching such things" on blind faith? Need I really remind you of their track record on these things?

And what's the biological component? I've given a list of examples of gender earlier but you seemed to assert that none of those are biological. So which examples are biological?
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Old 19th May 2018, 03:36 AM   #1929
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suspect many participants in this thread are gender identity agnostics, if not gender identity skeptics. That said, I cannot think of any empirical ways to settle the issue. Either you believe people who go to extraordinary efforts to be seen as the opposite sex or you do not.
Either you believe people who go to extraordinary efforts to be seen as Napoleon or you do not.
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Old 19th May 2018, 03:41 AM   #1930
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did someone actually say toilets are hierarchical because you can fit in more urinals in the blokes than seats?
No, I said that gender was a hierarchy, d4m10n then claimed that toilets were equivalent and hence gender isn't a hierarchy. A silly argument, since even if it's true that one aspect isn't hierarchical doesn't mean the whole isn't, but I pointed out that it's not even true for toilets anyway since the different packing properties lead to the same floor space being able to process more men at a time than women, leading to more queues and less throughput-effectiveness for the women.
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Old 19th May 2018, 03:44 AM   #1931
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Yes, that actually happened.

Plumbing is patriarchy.
Nonsense, you made a stupid argument to try to counter gender being hierarchical and it was pointed out to you that even that example failed.
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Old 19th May 2018, 05:09 AM   #1932
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Nonsense, you made a stupid argument to try to counter gender being hierarchical and it was pointed out to you that even that example failed.
You've yet to show any examples of how transitioning leads to moving up or down some specific hierarchy. Instead, you have simply asserted that gender is necessarily hierarchical in all relevant circumstances. This is just dogma.

I've given several examples of how men and women are treated differently upthread, such as lockers rooms, restrooms, pronouns and sports leagues. None of these are the result of patriarchal oppression, AFAIK.
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Old 21st May 2018, 01:52 PM   #1933
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Well too bad that's not what the evidence shows, because it clearly shows that men are being paid more than women for the same work.
Once again, you are conflating gender (masculinity/femininity) with sex (male/female).

Think of the most prototypically “masculine” jobs: Logging, fishing, roofing, construction, high-voltage repair, oil rig work, etc. Now think of the women in those jobs, doing the "same work" as you seem to believe. Are they, really? Can they heft as much weight? Apply as much torque? Hammer just as hard?

On average, likely not. Which might explain the massive sex disparity in the these dangerous and dirty jobs. Or . . . maybe it’s sexism. Perhaps there are loads of women lining up for grueling manly jobs and they keep getting turned away. Looking forward to the data on that.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 07:31 AM   #1934
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Transgender brain scans promised as study shows structural differences in people with gender dysphoria

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...l-differences/

Excerpt:
Quote:
Breakthrough research has revealed for the first time evidence that the brain activity of people who feel they inhabit the wrong body closely resembles that of the gender they want to embrace.

Analysis of around 160 participants showed that biological males with gender dysphoria - the experience of discomfort or distress due to their biological sex - had a brain structure and neurological patterns similar to biological females, and vice versa.

The analysis revealed that the distinct neurological differences are detectable during childhood.

The findings, presented at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting in Barcelona, are likely to provoke controversy among groups who argue gender identity should be matter of personal choice and not medical definition.

The science is increasingly pointing to transgenderism having a biological basis, and adding more nails to coffin of the anti-trans and biological-essentialist worldviews.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 10:09 AM   #1935
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The science is increasingly pointing to transgenderism having a biological basis, and adding more nails to coffin of the {...} biological-essentialist worldviews.
Wut? The position that gender is biologically determined is biological-essentialism. Also, can you provide the actual study?

And I'm not sure what you think such data would show, but all it really shows is that trans people aren't lying, and I don't think anyone claimed that anyway. A male still isn't a female merely for saying so though, irrespective of what sort of brain he has, a delusion doesn't become true merely for being held sincerely. Schizophrenics show differences in brain structure too, doesn't mean their delusions are true.

Heck, at some level every behaviour and belief is encoded in the brain in some way and, in principle, determinable to some degree. Get good enough at this and you might be able to determine the belief "I am Napoleon" from looking at someone's brain, and notice that this categorizes this person with Napoleon (whose brain also encoded that belief) and puts him outside the category of people who don't think they are Napoleon (whose brains show the absence of that belief). None of this means that this person actually is Napoleon though.
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Old Yesterday, 05:36 AM   #1936
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
45 pages and still no one has come up with a valid reason for needing a "cis" prefix for women
I get it you would never think of a trans woman as a woman so there is no need to differentiate trans and non trans women. There are women and people for whom it is all a sexual fetish, ie trans "women"
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Old Yesterday, 05:38 AM   #1937
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So is normal or just woman too much to grasp?
Exactly, it works for so many things to, I object to being labeled as straight when it really should just be normal or man. But for some reason this bothers SJW's. Real Men ^$^# Women not Men!
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Old Yesterday, 05:39 AM   #1938
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
They probably are normal as people, what ever that means, but they aren't a normal womanmen in the traditional sense
Just like the homosexuals.
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Old Yesterday, 06:38 AM   #1939
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Just like the homosexuals.

Obviously it is okay to distinguish a homosexual male as a "gay" man, but insulting to distinguish a heterosexual male as a "straight" man.

Such labeling is unnecessary to describe normal males, and is clearly meant as some sort of disparagement.
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Old Yesterday, 06:44 AM   #1940
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Obviously it is okay to distinguish a homosexual male as a "gay" man, but insulting to distinguish a heterosexual male as a "straight" man.

Such labeling is unnecessary to describe normal males, and is clearly meant as some sort of disparagement.
Exactly. Man means male and biology says males have sex with females. It is really quite simple and scientific. So we have normal men ie straight ie men and then gay men. There is no need to define any kind of non gay men as that is simply men.
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Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM   #1941
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly. Man means male and biology says males have sex with females. It is really quite simple and scientific. So we have normal men ie straight ie men and then gay men. There is no need to define any kind of non gay men as that is simply men.

And therefore, quite clearly, the addition of adjectives like "straight" or "heterosexual" can only be meant as a pejorative.

Q.E.D.
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Old Yesterday, 06:54 AM   #1942
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And therefore, quite clearly, the addition of adjectives like "straight" or "heterosexual" can only be meant as a pejorative.

Q.E.D.
Exactly now you are getting it.
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