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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 23rd September 2019, 01:33 PM   #761
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I'm having some trouble sorting through your meaning here. Are you suggesting that there cannot possibly be any actual virtue in environmental activism?

I mean, if you substitute a different field of endeavor...

"I doubt it would do serious particle physicists any favors to be associated with a similar physics-specific prize. Except as a merit badge in the eyes of people who are already on board with particle physics and convinced of its value."
I'm distinguishing between political prizes and science prizes. The whole idea is to not devalue science prizes by politicizing them. It doesn't do scientists any favors to be associated with a political prize rather than a science prize.

If you substitute a scientific field of endeavor, with a scientific prize for that field, then the comparison simply highlights how bankrupt the political prize is. If you substitute a scientific field, but give it a political prize, then you just work to bankrupt the scientific recognition as well. Because it's no longer scientific. Which is my point. Save the political prizes for politicians. They don't do scientists any favors.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 01:45 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

Something like, but on a different scale comparable to Nobel or Pulitzer prizes. I'm sure you've noticed that almost none of the items listed in the second to last link receive any significant media attention, because there are hundreds of different ones listed. (And yet, relatively few in the environmental category.)

I know that's a tall order; the Nobels and Pulitzers have the cachet they do largely because they've been around a long time, which you can't just imitate at will. Forming an appropriate international foundation (independent of e.g. the U.N.) to administer and judge the prize would also be quite a challenge.

The purpose, of course, isn't just to recognize the winners. It's to acknowledge the worldwide importance, across all nations and classes, of environmental issues, which now rival if not exceed the social scope of modern medicine.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 02:00 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm distinguishing between political prizes and science prizes. The whole idea is to not devalue science prizes by politicizing them. It doesn't do scientists any favors to be associated with a political prize rather than a science prize.

If you substitute a scientific field of endeavor, with a scientific prize for that field, then the comparison simply highlights how bankrupt the political prize is. If you substitute a scientific field, but give it a political prize, then you just work to bankrupt the scientific recognition as well. Because it's no longer scientific. Which is my point. Save the political prizes for politicians. They don't do scientists any favors.

Ah, okay. Thanks for explaining.

I think where we see differently is the likely relative importance of science in addressing the global ecological crises and transitioning to a sustainable civilization. Politics, economics, and engineering are likely to predominate. If we're lucky, science will survive.

(For now, Greta is saying "listen to the scientists," which is fine for the time being. Science lays out the framework of the problem, and the possibilities of solutions. But it doesn't create the solutions themselves. There's no vaccine for unsustainability. People have to change what they do, and governments have to stop supporting systems that require people to do unsustainable things in order to have decent lives. Anything that engineering, economics, and politics can do to make those inevitable changes slightly less bloody is worth encouraging with prizes.)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 02:11 PM   #764
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Perhaps award the prize as air miles?





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Old 23rd September 2019, 02:44 PM   #765
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Came across an article series that is huge enough to fill a book, and even has a second volume.

Called "The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg"

Only did a bit of skimming and it has a lot about the usual networks in it.

We remember that Al Gore is the only person who won both the Nobel Peace Prize and an Oscar, right?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:02 PM   #766
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Thunberg's UN speech was amazing and on point. Grown men on social media are absolutely frothing with rage at her, and it is hilarious to watch them melt down, while trying to pretend they're not melting down. One prominent Trumper pundit has claimed that the fact Thunberg's hair is braided proves she is a Nazi. I genuinely haven't had this much fun reading conservative opinions since Obama was re-elected.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:21 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
... Anything that engineering, economics, and politics can do to make those inevitable changes slightly less bloody is worth encouraging with prizes.
Prizes will never match the funding for the R&D to produce the toys that consumers demand, unless the Zuckerbergs, Gates' Cooks & etc star handing out $B prizes to just stop making stuff..
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:22 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Thunberg's UN speech was amazing and on point. Grown men on social media are absolutely frothing with rage at her, and it is hilarious to watch them melt down, while trying to pretend they're not melting down. One prominent Trumper pundit has claimed that the fact Thunberg's hair is braided proves she is a Nazi. I genuinely haven't had this much fun reading conservative opinions since Obama was re-elected.

When it was older men doing it, they were generally either ignored, laughed at, or handwaved with a bit of bought-and-paid for junk science.

Now that a young woman is doing it, they're positively apoplectic; engaging in the basest character assassination, or being crudely insulting. One can see a good deal of thinly veiled misogyny in their responses. They're not even trying to hide their contempt for women, the "lower" classes, or the scientific establishment anymore.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:30 PM   #769
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Her speech was correct and right. What's sad is that absolutely nothing will be done, and we're going down the ****hole. And she's smart enough to know it.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:45 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Came across an article series that is huge enough to fill a book, and even has a second volume.

Called "The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg"

Only did a bit of skimming and it has a lot about the usual networks in it.

We remember that Al Gore is the only person who won both the Nobel Peace Prize and an Oscar, right?
Don't pee on the parade...PUH LEEZE !

The sheeple need a hero. A hero to tell them that it's not their fault. It's not their fault that they take these flights, that they live in these big energy intensive houses, that the commute for miles and miles to work in SUVs that they consume and discard plastics at an alarming rate.

It's not their fault

It's the fault of government and the corporations. It's someone else's fault.

Want to actually do something ? Here's what you can do. Go plant a few trees. A few trees that will soak up all that carbon and help save the world. . No matter that the carbon that's coming out of your tailpipe has been sequestered underground for 10s of millions of years. No matter that it's. effectively, manufactured, new carbon the point is, those trees will sequester carbon until they die.

So bung a few sapplings in your back yard then fire up those propane patio heaters. After all, it's not your fault that you bought one. If those corporations hadn't made it available to you and those fossil fuel companies hadn't supplied you with propane then you wouldn't have one now would you ?

Scumbag corporations and government, they've given us 11 more years then Waterworld gets boosted to documentary status.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:49 PM   #771
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^ Well said..

I think a Waterworld would be cool..
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:59 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Thunberg's UN speech was amazing and on point. Grown men on social media are absolutely frothing with rage at her, and it is hilarious to watch them melt down, while trying to pretend they're not melting down. One prominent Trumper pundit has claimed that the fact Thunberg's hair is braided proves she is a Nazi. I genuinely haven't had this much fun reading conservative opinions since Obama was re-elected.
Yeah, I noticed that Dinesh DíSouza was making some ridiculous parallel with Nazi propaganda and plaited hair. See the left and the Nazis are the same!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:04 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Don't pee on the parade...PUH LEEZE !

The sheeple need a hero. A hero to tell them that it's not their fault. It's not their fault that they take these flights, that they live in these big energy intensive houses, that the commute for miles and miles to work in SUVs that they consume and discard plastics at an alarming rate.

It's not their fault

It's the fault of government and the corporations. It's someone else's fault.

Want to actually do something ? Here's what you can do. Go plant a few trees. A few trees that will soak up all that carbon and help save the world. . No matter that the carbon that's coming out of your tailpipe has been sequestered underground for 10s of millions of years. No matter that it's. effectively, manufactured, new carbon the point is, those trees will sequester carbon until they die.

So bung a few sapplings in your back yard then fire up those propane patio heaters. After all, it's not your fault that you bought one. If those corporations hadn't made it available to you and those fossil fuel companies hadn't supplied you with propane then you wouldn't have one now would you ?

Scumbag corporations and government, they've given us 11 more years then Waterworld gets boosted to documentary status.
It neednít be a choice between top down and bottom up action. Consumers can definitely make choices about whether or not to buy SUVs, but they canít always make choices about whether or not to improve public transport options, subsidizing technology that leaves a lower carbon footprint or regulations on packaging, food waste and how electricity is produced.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:14 PM   #774
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
A fine speech but the UN is probably not the right target.

If I were the UN, here would be my reply.

"We exist as a body because the 30 years leading up to our formation we just straight murdered 10s of millions. like five percent of the people were killed. Global warming is a problem because we succeed in solving the first problem. You're welcome."


Not endorsing that the UN fixed anything, but they probably think they did.
I donít think the UN are going to make any such claims about how their prevention of war has created too many people and thus made global warming more likely.

They did, after all, formulate the Sustainable Development Goals in 2015 which are meant to deal with a growing population being able to live within the means of the planet. Besides, making peopleís lives better is pretty much as close to a guarantee of stabilizing the population as anything, not constant warfare or poverty which actually does the opposite.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:17 PM   #775
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It neednít be a choice between top down and bottom up action. Consumers can definitely make choices about whether or not to buy SUVs, but they canít always make choices about whether or not to improve public transport options, subsidizing technology that leaves a lower carbon footprint or regulations on packaging, food waste and how electricity is produced.
They can't? Democracy doesn't work, then. Man of Destiny when? Fuhrerprinzip when?

Maybe Thunberg is our Person of Destiny. She better step it up, then. We're running out of time.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:24 PM   #776
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This was my favorite thing on Democracy Now this morning:
Bill McKibben: Youth Who Led Global Climate Strike Are Bringing a New “Spirit” to Climate Fight
Quote:
BILL McKIBBEN: So, a few minutes later, this was my favorite moment. You know, as usual, the congressmen can’t help themselves, are just gassing on for minute after minute, unable to take a cue from Greta’s concise eloquence. One Republican, just on and on and on, “China this, China that,” “Why should we do anything? China’s not doing anything,” yadda yadda yadda. It goes on like this for five minutes.

And Greta looks up at him and says — she said, “I come from a small country called Sweden. In Sweden, sometimes people say, 'Why should we do anything, because the United States is so big and wastes so much?' Just so you know.” It was my favorite moment of congressional testimony in a long time.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:28 PM   #777
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They can't? Democracy doesn't work, then. Man of Destiny when? Fuhrerprinzip when?

Maybe Thunberg is our Person of Destiny. She better step it up, then. We're running out of time.
I said they ďcanít alwaysĒ. Sometimes they get to make decisions about what government will do based on who they vote for. Did you get your Godwin-Esque arguments from Dinesh DíSouza?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:29 PM   #778
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
A new spirit.. That should fix everything..

OH wow!.. She really pawned that one..

I wonder how much time BILL McKIBBEN spends listening to congressional testimony?

That should rank right up there with listening to the UN general assembly..
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:33 PM   #779
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
^ Well said..

I think a Waterworld would be cool..
... except the water would be warm


... and acidic


... and probably anoxic
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:38 PM   #780
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
We remember that Al Gore is the only person who won both the Nobel Peace Prize and an Oscar, right?
Gore did not win an Oscar. The director won, and had Gore come up on stage while receiving the award, thus leaving many people with the wrong impression that Gore was a recipient, but the award was not to Gore.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:39 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Gore did not win an Oscar. The director won, and had Gore come up on stage while receiving the award, thus leaving many people with the wrong impression that Gore was a recipient, but the award was not to Gore.
I thought he was given the Oscar for inventing the Internet and discovering the link between smoking and cancer!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:43 PM   #782
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
When it was older men doing it, they were generally either ignored, laughed at, or handwaved with a bit of bought-and-paid for junk science.

Now that a young woman is doing it, they're positively apoplectic; engaging in the basest character assassination, or being crudely insulting. One can see a good deal of thinly veiled misogyny in their responses. They're not even trying to hide their contempt for women, the "lower" classes, or the scientific establishment anymore.
If contempt for Thurnberg's class is going on, then it isn't contempt for the lower classes, because she isn't from the lower classes. And I don't know why you're throwing "scientific establishment" in here, since she's manifestly not part of that either. You also seem to be pretending that her age isn't a factor in criticism of her. It is, and it's justified.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:44 PM   #783
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I thought he was given the Oscar for inventing the Internet and discovering the link between smoking and cancer!
No, that was just an Emmy.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:51 PM   #784
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Whatever happened to Al Gore?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:12 PM   #785
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Whatever happened to Al Gore?
He made a lot of money and is living large today?

I dunno.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:16 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I donít think the UN are going to make any such claims about how their prevention of war has created too many people and thus made global warming more likely.
That wasn't the implication I was going for. I was referring more to the total destruction of war.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:19 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He made a lot of money and is living large today?

I dunno.
In more ways than one...
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:20 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He made a lot of money and is living large today?

I dunno.
Oh, it's an interesting story. He suckered Al Jazeera into buying Current TV for something like $100 million. So the guy who made a name for himself with global warming panic turned around and made a fortune for himself from the people supposedly responsible (ie, oil producers). But the whole thing went sour: Al Gore sued Al Jazeera for withholding $65 million of the payment, and Al countersued Al (I think because Current TV turned out to be worthless), and the whole thing imploded.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:33 PM   #789
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I read a couple of days ago she says she can see carbon dioxide.

I'm sorry, but Lol
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:42 PM   #790
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I read a couple of days ago she says she can see carbon dioxide.

I'm sorry, but Lol
I believe that's according to her mother. From page 15.

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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
Funny how the more political the subject, the less skeptical this <cough> skeptics board becomes. Could somebody please present a rational argument (valid reason?) as to why anyone should listen to what a 16 year old Swedish high school dropout with Asperger's (and who knows what else, FAS perhaps) has to say on both a highly controversial political subject and the thoroughly imprecise "science" related to it that she (like the rest of humanity) knows essentially nothing about?

Don't forget, she's the only human being who's ever (claimed to have) seen those invisible, teeny-tiny CO2 molecules with the naked eye. Which according to her is a pollutant. She "sees how it flows out of chimneys and turns the atmosphere into a rubbish tip." Yet CO2 has never been designated a pollutant by anyone or anything intelligent anywhere. Ever! In fact the opposite is true, (from 6th grade science) carbon is the basic building block of life and so essential to it (where do you think all that carbon in the carbon cycle comes from?) that CO2's present day minor concentration in the atmosphere (400 PPM) going below 150 PPM would inevitably end all life on earth.

No I'm not trying to convince a skeptics board to be skeptical, that would be stupidity on my part. I'm after just one valid reason why I should be listening in earnest to a young unattractive political shill who would otherwise have a hard time convincing anyone she's even female. I mean, if the general attitude in society is we're to "listen to the scientists" (a prevailing if not misguided sentiment), you can't arbitrarily add to that "and drop-out resource classes teenagers who really like attention and sailing on ships" and still claim any seriousness.

Would Kim Kardashian be a better or worse Carbon Is Badô spokesmodel than Greta Thunberg? Why?
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The above is a fairly exemplary QED of my prior point. The poster isn't simply saying they think Thunberg is wrong about climate change; they also are compelled to describe her as "unattractive", a "high school dropout", having "Aspergers and who knows what else", a "political shill", even invoking her nationality as part of a list of qualities the poster implies are discrediting or make her unworthy of attention. This person clearly has as much a problem with Thunberg personally as they do with Thunberg's message; that's why "haters" is a valid moniker.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:43 PM   #791
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Want to actually do something ? Here's what you can do. Go plant a few trees..

I plant trees with every web search I do and so can you: https://info.ecosia.org/what
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:01 PM   #792
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Just watched her UN speech.

Never actually seen video of her.

Just comes across as annoying and whiny to me tbf.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:02 PM   #793
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I read a couple of days ago she says she can see carbon dioxide.

I'm sorry, but Lol
Of course you don't have a link for this.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:05 PM   #794
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I believe that's according to her mother. From page 15.
Wow, people sure are afraid of her, aren't they.

Her speech to the UN, "I want you to listen to the scientists, not to me."
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:06 PM   #795
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just watched her UN speech.

Never actually seen video of her.

Just comes across as annoying and whiny to me tbf.
TBF, you really should listen to a lot more before drawing your ad hominem opinion.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:11 PM   #796
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
TBF, you really should listen to a lot more before drawing your ad hominem opinion.
I think I'll stick to listening to scientists.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:48 PM   #797
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think I'll stick to listening to scientists.
Congratulations! This happens to be Greta Thunberg's core message to politicians: "Please listen to the scientists!"
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:05 PM   #798
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think I'll stick to listening to scientists.
Good. That's exactly what Greta's main message was. Just like Oystein said.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 09:33 PM   #799
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Congratulations! This happens to be Greta Thunberg's core message to politicians: "Please listen to the scientists!"
Them why is she wasting useful scientist speaking time? How about as she is about to walk up there, she calls up a scientist?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 10:18 PM   #800
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Congratulations! This happens to be Greta Thunberg's core message to politicians: "Please listen to the scientists!"
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Them why is she wasting useful scientist speaking time? How about as she is about to walk up there, she calls up a scientist?
She's just a kid, you can't blame her. Blame the people who called her to come speak instead of a scientist. They shouldn't put her in the spotlight like this, it's child exploitation.
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