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#441 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 1,859
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This is why I am a regular viewer of paranormal crap on tv, that and my life is boring.
To learn how to spot the parlor tricks. Some deliver in bulk on the games but most have gone to simply letting the viewers see the evidence and decide what it was. It's the best trick of all because there is one in each home out there that is right on whatever caused something heavy to fall off camera, or why a door moved. Madame Woo isn't much different except she wants to run your card before she does the magic. It rarely seems what it really was, same tricks as any illusionist with scantily clad assistants and lots of theatrical movements. So you fail to see how mundane the real answer was. Distract and dazzle, but try not to reveal. |
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#442 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 19,040
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Not telling the whole truth is substantially lying. So if mediums are willing to impose their personal notions of proper messaging onto the message, then it's about the medium and not about the message or the departed. If mediums just tell people what they want to hear, or what they want them to hear, then they aren't genuine mediums. I see no material difference between distorting a message from beyond and making up a message from beyond.
What if the departed was a long-time abuser of the survivor, and the survivor would be most comforted by a message that the departed is suffering eternal torment for his behavior? How is a true medium supposed to navigate all these perils and pitfalls? Why are they said to channel something when their real job appears to blow sunshine up the survivor's tailpipe regardless of the facts? |
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#443 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 19,040
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#444 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,698
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#445 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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Scorpion I am sorry but I have a hard time believing in what you do. Religion and spiritualism has only harmed me, magical thinking in my opinion harms society, it's illogical and irrational thinking.
Thank you for your replies people, yes this medium really has caused me a lot of damage |
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#446 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,392
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy |
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#447 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
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I'm sure there are mediums who are sincerely trying to help their clients but they're not trained psychologists or therapists, and are quite likely to do more harm than good even with the best of intentions.
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#448 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 8,466
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No such thing. Sure, they may be nice. But they will ALWAYS get round to making money out of it, one way or another. Even if you have to be used as an advertisement of "success" to convince others.
So an easy rule to remember: With psychics, it's all about the money. YOUR money. |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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#449 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,724
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#450 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 19,040
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Except that you did. You said
You specifically put the medium's judgment at the center of the question and speculated on the criteria they should employ.
Quote:
Comfort and guidance are two different things. I can offer someone one without offering them the other. If a genuine medium is filtering the message, and the result is guidance, then to what extent should the medium be responsible for the consequences of that guidance? What if the guidance would have been received differently if the client had heard the whole message? You're making all this up as you go, and you're not thinking through all the consequences. You claim there are genuine mediums, but your concept of the scenarios that would operate in those circumstances is comically simplistic. You aren't allowed to get away with that simplistic level of detail when you're asserting what is the genuine state of affairs. |
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#451 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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It's a mad world, this psychic world but sadly a lot of people fall for it including me.... but me being a deep thinker, I wanted to dive deeper... I mean these mediums, why do they only relay sugar coated messages (most of the time) although the reading I had led me to have crippling self esteem.... they also believe in some sort of creator who allows such evil in this world, it's insane!
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#452 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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#453 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 1,859
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(the concept of) God is powerful. He is the almighty.
And it's a safe bet the psychics mark is religious. So a generic god is perfect as a tool for her. If she was Indian and in India it would be another powerful god or goddess. It doesn't matter which if it pays out. A good person will help you heal, a good real psychic will heal you of the damages of the charlatan before. For a fee. It builds on thier perceived ability by standing on the other. Unless you see through that too. Always question motive. Understand the drives of the other especially if your money is on the table. Ask what you get for what you give. A pile of reassurance and a slap on the backside isn't worth the psychics price. |
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#454 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,724
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They may consider themselves good people, and in some cases even honestly think they're doing good, but they are replacing peoples real memories of their loved ones with made up stuff and interrupting and drawing out the grieving process for people in pain by pretending to have super powers that let them be the super special conduit to keep these lost people in their lives.
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#455 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,698
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Here are two links for your edification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Gerbic https://abouttimeproject.wordpress.com/susan-gerbic/ This one is also linked in the Wikipedia article: https://pointofinquiry.org/2019/04/t...-susan-gerbic/ |
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#456 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 19,040
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It's pure narcissism. We don't have to quantify how many of it are doing it for money. It's just distasteful on its face for someone to interpolate himself into my grieving process and assume a special position in the relationship between me and a departed loved one. Especially a position that tends to supplant the departed and assume a position of privilege. If the desire is to give comfort and consolation, then just give comfort and consolation. That's the proper expression of that ethos.
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#457 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,724
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#458 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,698
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Here is a five-minute audio file of Penn Gillette describing how someone learned cold reading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vHS0dZl3OU (Strictly audio, even though it's on YouTube.) |
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#459 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,847
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Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
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#460 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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#461 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 13,108
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Julia |
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#462 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 19,040
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I assume Amy meant to type "debunker."
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#463 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,698
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"Debunker": I don't really like that word because it smacks of meanness.
Susan, like many of us here, is interested in exposing people who knowingly defraud others by preying on their grief and uncertainty and fears. She's also a very nice person, and very easy to talk to. |
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#464 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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Sorry I had meant debunker, whoops!
I've actually just sent her a message and she has responded :-) Wasapi thank you, I am very curious, so information and links etc are very much appreciated :-) |
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#465 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 13,108
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Also, reading her brief autobiographical statement was of great interest to me. She credited our own Robert Lancaster, my good friend, with being the inspiration for what she does now. RIP, Robert. You were more important then you ever realized.
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Julia |
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#466 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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Are there any of good skeptic out there who debunk psychics? I've been in touch with Susan
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#467 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,698
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Amy, have you looked at the Million Dollar Challenge part of this forum?
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#468 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
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There are some psychologists who specialise in understanding why people have irrational beliefs. One such is Chris French, a Professor of Psychology at the University of London:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_French https://www.gold.ac.uk/psychology/staff/french/ |
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#469 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 69,607
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I've met him. Nice bloke.
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Please scream inside your heart. |
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#470 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
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__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#471 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 69,607
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Please scream inside your heart. |
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#472 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,866
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Well said.
I had someone accost me one day and tell me that she was psychic and had a message for me from my father. She told me that he was "watching over me." She acted as if she were giving me comfort. My relationship with my father was ... well, let's just say that I miss him, but the idea of him continuing to "watch over me" isn't comforting. For some people, the situation with their father could have been much worse. And those words could have had a chilling effect. |
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#473 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,698
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#474 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 32,238
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There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
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#475 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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Wow really, how on earth would she of known your father wasn't alive? That's creepy
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#476 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,543
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Not really. I'm not sure when this event occurred, but a quick check of Jadebox's profile shows an age of 57. I'd venture to guess a good majority of 57 year olds have lost a parent, or more likely two.
(Sorry Jadebox, not trying to be a creeper!) |
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Ben is sick ladies and gentlemen, thats right, Ben is sick. |
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#477 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
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Ahh I see, I just can't fathom why these people want to lie purely for money!!
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#478 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,206
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It is quite simple. It comes down to a personal separation of church and state.
I make my living (and a handsome living at that) doing X. I do not spend my personal life doing X. Sylvia Browne et al happily pull this stuff on total strangers because it then becomes a primarily financial transaction with an anonymous mark. That makes it easy to divorce ones ethics and morality and empathy from the mark. Put it this way. If a family member or friend had a flat wheel on a lonely windswept road and was stuck, then one would go the extra mile to sort them out. But if a total stranger had the same circumstance, one would have far less motivation to do so. This is why emergency wheel repair vans exist. What would you do if a total stranger called you at the side of the road at random seeking your aid? What would you do differently if it was one of your nearest and dearest? Would it be different? |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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#479 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,995
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Because it’s a form of lying that the lied-to seeks out, has a low chance of being prosecuted and oftentimes, the liar is convinced they aren’t lying. Easy money if you have the knack for cold reading, the resources to hot read and the ability to lie without conscience or fool yourself. |
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Hello. |
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#480 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,724
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__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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