|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#81 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Susan, I am spiritual but I don't believe in the super natural. What I believe in is that when we die we die. We are merely flesh and blood and once gone very much gone. The irrationality of religion has only caused me confusion and a feeling of lack of control. I have been previously brain washed with talk of God and the devil, it's just madness and so I seek to follow my own path. Religion is madness in disguise in my opinion.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#82 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 334
|
here (E-Europe, but surely elsewhere too) psychics often use this ''I was in coma when I was 7', 'I had NDE when 13' 'I was struck by lightning', and the like ---and after that I started hearing/seeing angels, spirits, god blah blah'. uh, and then there is always a granma who had abilities too (not sure whether all those granmas had had been struck by lightning too).
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#83 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 12,860
|
Peter Hurkos claimed to have gained his “powers” after falling off a roof.....
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#84 |
Incurable Optimist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,737
|
And that's worth every minute of effort you put into it. You can like me enjoy the later parts of your life much more if you keep on reading and listening to those who are clear and understandable about their non-belief. I was lucky that my religious learning was fairly laid back, not intense.
Read 'Wonders of the solar system' and Wonders of the Universe' by Prof Brian Cox. Written in a clear straightforward and very interesting way, he does not go on about religious beliefs being ridiculous or anything. he simply sets out the facts and if after reading them. anyone still believes there is a God, any sort of god!, there is a need for further reading!!! ![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#85 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,190
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#86 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Have psychics ever been scientifically tested and if so what were the results?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#87 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
None at all Jesse, just if my mum were on the 'otherside' and how she can claim to bring evidential evidence.... that's a very confident stance from her
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#88 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Thank you Susan, I have just purchased a book recommended from this forum, the rubber duck book:-)
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#89 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 1,859
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#90 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,486
|
Numerous times. They have never shown abilities that stand up to rigorous testing. You might look up Harry Houdini's work debunking mediums, it points up one of the problems with scientists testing psychics. Scientists tend to accept that, while witnesses may be mistaken in their observations, they are honest in reporting what they recall. A magician knows that people can intentionally deceive.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#91 |
I say nay!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,842
|
|
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds. If you see a Nazi. Egg them |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#92 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,190
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#93 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,392
|
I try contacting angels that can see into the future and try to get them to give me the winning numbers by telepathy. They did this for me once in 1998 when I got five numbers, and once again some years later when I knew I had four numbers on the lotto before the draw.
As it happens I got two numbers and two lucky stars on yesterdays euro millions. But all I won was a crummy £9. I will have to try and concentrate harder when picking the numbers next week. But in truth I don't think the angels will ever give me a big win because it would be bad karma. They gave me five numbers once, when I really needed the money, but now I don't. |
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#94 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,190
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#95 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,724
|
|
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#96 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,724
|
|
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#97 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 682
|
And there are simple ways to make this kind of thing seem even more impressive.
For example, you could send 100,000 emails (not at all hard to do these days) in ten groups of 10,000 each. Your email tells every person in each group that you know that they recently experienced one of the items from a list like Axxman300's, but you pick a different list item for each group. You tell everyone in group one you know they just lost their job, tell everyone in group two you know they have a brother named George, tell group three you know their mother died, etc. With statements of these kinds they will be correct (or near enough to correct) for part of each group. Maybe only a tiny percentage, or more likely something like 5% to 20%, maybe more depending on the statement. Out of those people a few will be intrigued enough to respond. Now you take the people who responded in each group and you break those up into subgroups and send each of these subgroups a second prediction from the list. Again a different prediction for each subgroup. There will be many fewer people in each subgroup than the 10,000 in the original group, but you now have two things going for you: You have a group a people who have shown that they're willing to respond, and to whom you've already given one accurate prediction. So even though you send many fewer emails, you will likely get a higher percentage of responses in this round of emails. In sales (and believe me this is sales) those people are called several things: high value leads, hot prospects, great potentials, and less charitably, marks. Now you get some responses from each of your hundred subgroups, and you do the same thing again. You break the respondents up into smaller subgroups and send each of those 1000 subgroups a third prediction. Continue doing the same thing with each batch of respondents. Start with enough emails and go through five or six rounds and you will have a handful of basically two types of respondents: those who will swear you are a true psychic because you've given them five or six perfectly correct predictions, and those who are just trying to screw with you because they know the gag. But how impressed are those handful of true believers? And since they've already responded several times, how likely would they seem to be to go for an in person reading? You'll definitely be able to get some of them to spend some money. And that's with no expertise, no cold or hot reading, no skill required at all, really. Just playing the numbers. Imagine what someone with skills or experience in the "industry" could do in addition to that to make it even more impressive. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#98 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,166
|
There was no need for public records. As others, and even you yourself, have pointed out, the email said 'if' your mother was dead - in a way that allowed you to rush to fill the blank (it's natural, don't feel bad about it, we're wired to make connections). The medium did not know! Had your mother been alive you would have seen nothing wrong either and may even have taken the statement as proof that the medium knew she was alive because the 'if' meant she was talking hypothetically. It's a classic tactic - infer something in an ambiguous way and the client leaps to confirm a hit because we're always interpreting things as they pertain to ourselves.
I used to read Tarot cards (for fun, always aware it was bollocks) and was amazed what people would tell you and claim astonishment that you knew - quick, and real example, after pointing at a card, I only got as far as saying 'This represents a male authority figure' before my friend immediately exclaimed 'That's my father, my god how did you know about my father?!' They carried on feeding me stuff about their father - who I didn't even know was dead until they referred to him in the past tense, and after the reading kept going on about how spooky it was that I knew so much and how I seemed to have a gift even though I didn't believe. It took me ages to talk them through what had happened and how I was just saying vague things that they leapt to interpret and add detail to and then I just fed it right back seconds later. I don't think they were convinced even then and this was someone who claimed not to believe before the reading. I stopped doing it shortly after that and have only brought the cards out since during a d&d game for a gypsy encounter - even then the players remarked how surprising it was how the cards seemed to fit what then happened... Of course they did, I'm the sodding Dungeon Master, I knew what was going to happen and the cards all have Barnum type meanings that were easy to fit! |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#99 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 8,466
|
How easy is it to get your info? VERY easy.
Does your FaceBook page show your first name and the town you live in? For example, you could be Amy who lives in Little Whinging. From there, it's pretty easy. A quick check of the local town newspaper online (e.g. the Little Whinging Grumbler) may turn up a funeral notice for: "Agatha Smith, aged 92, departed 31st June, beloved mother of Amy and Beowulf." From that info alone (your maiden name was Amy Smith) she can find if you are married and thus your married name, date of marriage and your husband's name. She can also estimate your age (you were likely born when your mother was in her twenties, and married in your twenties), and so on. From there she can get a reasonable family tree compiled. You or any of your family on Ancestry.com? Even easier. Now with your name and probably your address as well, a fairly complete personal history can be built up. Are you a member of any local groups or societies such as the parish council? Toastmasters? A political party? Chances are your home address and phone number(s) will be left in public among those lists. Bingo. There are many ways to find out all about you without having to ask you or skulk around following you. THIS is what they teach in "Mediumship School". But by far the easiest and fastest way to find out about you is to pay a medium online with a credit card. You are quite literally handing over your full name and billing address. And it takes only a few minutes and is all legal. Which is why mediums almost always say there is a long queue of people for their services and there will be a few days or weeks before they can talk to you. There isn't; they are doing a little digging to get a few pertinent facts so they sound convincing on the phone, like they already know something you didn't tell them. So all you do is add this "background check" to cold reading and they can put on a VERY convincing act very easily. All you have to do is keep handing over the money! |
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#100 |
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,719
|
|
__________________
I have the honor to be Your Obdt. St L. Leader |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#101 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,392
|
No, it isn't. I have sat in two separate developing circles in the 1970's, and they teach you how to open your aura to the spirit world, and how to tune yourself to receive spirit communication. I did not develop myself, but a friend of mine did, and I watched him become a medium in front of my eyes. His name was Trevor Williams, and as far as I know he is still giving messages in spiritualist churches to this day. He may still attend Dartford spiritualist church, but I don't know, as I moved away from there a long time ago.
|
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#102 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,457
|
This is classic confirmation bias.
Any win is attributed to benevolent angels. Any loss is attributed to benevolent angels teaching you about “karma”. A win-win for believers and exactly the personality that self-proclaimed “spiritualists” and “spirit” centres prey upon. |
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#103 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,392
|
Maybe you have not read my story. A female voice in my head told me I would win on the lottery one hour before the draw. An hour later I got five numbers. I only ever heard that voice twice. First time was a couple of days earlier, when it told me "help is coming from an unexpected source ". Then before the draw it said " You won" I have done the lottery since it started, and that's the only time I ever heard a voice tell me I won.
I think it was an angel of karma, because the spirits of my dead relatives would not suddenly be able to see into the future just because they had entered the spirit world. Also they would not be allowed to interfere with my karma even if they could see the numbers. So it was probably an angel of karma who gave me a break when I really needed one. |
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#104 |
Heb ei fai, heb ei eni
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,753
|
Hi Amy,
While reading this thread, I've had a few messages through from the other side... You have a scar on your leg, knee or thereabouts, from a childhood accident. You had a pet that was very special to you in the late 70s or early 80s. You used to love it when your dad used to pinch his thumb through his first two fingers and say that he had got your nose. And bizarrely, you used to rush home or make sure you were in and ready to watch 'Moonlighting'. I don't mean to freak you out, but hope you had a happy 44th birthday recently. All guesses, how did I do? Btw, nobody can speak to the dead, well, we all can, but they will not talk back to us. Remember that and never give the bastards any money. My sister in law has been paying £100 a month for 12 years now to 'stay in touch' with her dead son. They are bastards, evil ******* bastards, every last one of them, stay well away. I had a digital copy of Ian Rowlands book, I'll see if I can dig it out. |
__________________
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." Carl Sagan 1934 - 1996 RIP |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#105 |
I say nay!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,842
|
|
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds. If you see a Nazi. Egg them |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#106 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
|
This forum was originally the JREF (James Randi Educational Foundation) forum, a member took it over when Randi retired. JREF offered a prize of a million dollars to anyone who could produce scientific evidence of any paranormal phenomenon. For a few years a member of JREF staff started a thread for each applicant and documented the progress of the claims, that subforum is still here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...splay.php?f=43 If you read the threads you'll find that most didn't get as far as actually taking a test, but there are few who did. This psychic, for example: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=118952 The prize was available for decades and was still unclaimed when JREF was wound up. |
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#107 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Thank you so much everyone for your comments, how do you quote what people have said to reply to?
What if you were to pay by PayPal can they then retrieve your information? Welshdean none were right lol, try again :-) Let's see, here is my reading.... You live in Wales and often the weather is cold hahaha! |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#108 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Oh wow Pixal, so no one ever claimed that prize?
So a psychic has never passed a scientific test? They are very cunning aren't they. All of your replies have been awesome, thank you so much. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#109 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
|
|
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#110 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Scorpion are you a spiritualist, I don't understand why you are on here? I am confused.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#111 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#112 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#113 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
|
There are some "scientists" who claim otherwise, but they need to ignore the scientific method to produce "positive" results. Probably the best known is Dean Radin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Radin |
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#114 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#115 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
|
BTW there are plenty of other prizes still available, JREF isn't/wasn't the only organisation which offered one, though I believe it was the only one which offered that much.
|
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#116 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
I have spoken with many mediums over the past few years, when my mum died in 2013 I went to one. I guess they are so convincing that they make you go back for more. Some of these mediums are genuinely nice and this does throw me, which is why I ask do some mediums truly believe they have a 'gift'?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#117 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,845
|
It's just as easy to fool yourself into thinking you have a gift as it is to fool other people. Easier, probably.
|
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#118 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,847
|
Every time you repeat this story ( which is many, many times), it raises more questions than it answers.
You say this time that you don't need the money, but you play the lottery anyway. You also say that angels (another embellishment, not AFAIK mentioned in the numerous previous tellings and retellings of this fable) wanted you to win, but now they don't, but you play anyway, even though you don't need the money, and you won't win a large sum. Do you consider this to be a productive use of your time and money? |
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#119 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 172
|
Bad karma scorpion, you could ask the angels and give it to charity so how is that karma if you were to give it to those in need?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#120 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 32,238
|
|
__________________
There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|