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Tags "Making a Murderer" , Brendan Dassey , documentaries , murder cases , Steven Avery , Teresa Halbach , tv shows

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Old 7th June 2017, 06:54 PM   #3721
JREF2010
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yeah the vial seems to be swapped with the blood drops in the sink and aligns with Zellners tweet previously. (right about planting, not correct in how) in addition to the Toothbrush for the Key!

the Bullet SEM was interesting too. It was all about bone residue missing and if so who planted the victims DNA on the bullet.


Exhibit 15, ,r 31).
362.For the purposes of Dr. Reich's experiment, Mr. Avery held the exemplar sub-key in his
hand for 12 minutes. The exemplar sub-key was then transported to Dr. Reich's lab,
where it was swabbed. The exemplar sub-key, which Mr. Avery was touching for 12
minutes, yielded ten times less DNA than what the WSCL extracted from the Toyota subkey,
Item C. Therefore, Dr. Reich has concluded that Mr. Avery did not deposit his DNA
on the sub-key recovered from his bedroom.
3 63. Mr. A very recalls that the law enforcement photos taken of bathroom show that his
toothbrush had been taken from the bathroom.
364. Dr. Reich has offered the opinion that, to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, Mr.
Avery's DNA on the Toyota sub-key, Item C, was planted frorn a DNA-rich source, such
as Mr. Avery's toothbrush. (Affidavit of Dr. Reich, P-C Group Exhibit 15, ,r 37)
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Old 7th June 2017, 07:36 PM   #3722
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
yeah the vial seems to be swapped with the blood drops in the sink and aligns with Zellners tweet previously. (right about planting, not correct in how) in addition to the Toothbrush for the Key!

the Bullet SEM was interesting too. It was all about bone residue missing and if so who planted the victims DNA on the bullet.


Exhibit 15, ,r 31).
362.For the purposes of Dr. Reich's experiment, Mr. Avery held the exemplar sub-key in his
hand for 12 minutes. The exemplar sub-key was then transported to Dr. Reich's lab,
where it was swabbed. The exemplar sub-key, which Mr. Avery was touching for 12
minutes, yielded ten times less DNA than what the WSCL extracted from the Toyota subkey,
Item C. Therefore, Dr. Reich has concluded that Mr. Avery did not deposit his DNA
on the sub-key recovered from his bedroom.
3 63. Mr. A very recalls that the law enforcement photos taken of bathroom show that his
toothbrush had been taken from the bathroom.
364. Dr. Reich has offered the opinion that, to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, Mr.
Avery's DNA on the Toyota sub-key, Item C, was planted frorn a DNA-rich source, such
as Mr. Avery's toothbrush. (Affidavit of Dr. Reich, P-C Group Exhibit 15, ,r 37)
Wow, this is amazing news.
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Old 7th June 2017, 09:16 PM   #3723
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Did you read the 220 page doc? Its a good read.

The groin swab = planted hood latch...isnt that alone enough to toss the Sweaty Prosecutors case in the garbage where it belongs? It proves planted evidence, the court system shouldnt require more than one occurrence of planted evidence.

The blood plant was enough too, the dripping blood goes into the carpet makes sense.
The blood on the carpet planted is only on the surface = planted.
Makes sense.

The bullet with no bone residue = failed, garbage evidence (adding TH DNA= more planted evidence)


What does anyone think of the RH being targeted?
Is this important for Steves case or just helping the police find the real killer?
Im not a lawyer so I dont understand the assumption and clues added toward RH being the killer. Too bad the courts didnt allow DNA testing of the broken headlight that might have been the DNA of the killer. I wonder if RH is lawyering up?

Jealous Angry ExControl Freak boyfriend who never moved on ..hmm?
His best friend banging away on his ex, then some married man too...did it set off the Ex?
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Old 7th June 2017, 11:55 PM   #3724
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I haven't had a chance to read any of it yet, as I just returned from a crazy busy evening. I stopped by a couple reddits to see how they were assessing the document. On the reddit that is generally full of SA supporters almost all of the posters are celebrating this slam dunk. On the reddit that is generally full of people who believe that SA is guilty almost all of the posters are talking about amazingly crappy, pathetic and full of nothing, this submission is. I haven't read a word of it yet, so I can't say.
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Old 8th June 2017, 12:14 AM   #3725
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Here is a strange question. . .Let us assume that Steve Avery was actually guilty of her murder but also assume that all of the evidence was a frame of him, what do you think should be done?
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Old 8th June 2017, 12:39 AM   #3726
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Here is a strange question. . .Let us assume that Steve Avery was actually guilty of her murder but also assume that all of the evidence was a frame of him, what do you think should be done?
The question is strange because the first part of it presumes perfect knowledge can be obtained, which it can't. The best we can reasonably expect is that we might be persuaded of a certain person's culpability beyond a reasonable doubt. If all the evidence presented to that effect turns out to be the result of a frame-up, that obviously isn't achieved. So on what basis would I be presented with a dilemma here?
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Old 8th June 2017, 01:53 AM   #3727
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Originally Posted by Wayward son View Post
I haven't had a chance to read any of it yet, as I just returned from a crazy busy evening. I stopped by a couple reddits to see how they were assessing the document. On the reddit that is generally full of SA supporters almost all of the posters are celebrating this slam dunk. On the reddit that is generally full of people who believe that SA is guilty almost all of the posters are talking about amazingly crappy, pathetic and full of nothing, this submission is. I haven't read a word of it yet, so I can't say.
If aviation operated the same way as criminal justice there would be lively debates amongst passengers whether the plane was going to land safely or everyone was doomed to perish.
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Old 8th June 2017, 02:16 AM   #3728
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Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
The question is strange because the first part of it presumes perfect knowledge can be obtained, which it can't. The best we can reasonably expect is that we might be persuaded of a certain person's culpability beyond a reasonable doubt. If all the evidence presented to that effect turns out to be the result of a frame-up, that obviously isn't achieved. So on what basis would I be presented with a dilemma here?
It is meant as a thought experment on how if he is guilty and if the police framed him, which seems increasingly more likely, then the police did a horrid disservice to everything they should hold dear.
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Old 8th June 2017, 02:24 AM   #3729
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This link solves the crime

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/maki...eresa-halbach/

Hillegas killed her and Colborn helped him frame Steve. Colborn probably thought Avery was guilty.
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Old 8th June 2017, 07:30 AM   #3730
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Are the news reporters flocking to RH and AC for a response?

The low level over-loyal foot cop trying to shine for the big dogs who always seem to let the bus run over the small-helpers.... wow

Wheres the meat though?

Im kind of feeling the "you say yes, I say no" thing is going on.

Pros Expert says this, the Defense expert says that...

the Buting and Stang said the hoodlatch was accidental by the investigator not changing gloves, Zellner exeprt says it was planted from the groin swab stolen by Weaslegart and SweatyKen claims it was sweaty sweat dna....
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Old 8th June 2017, 12:30 PM   #3731
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
It is meant as a thought experment on how if he is guilty and if the police framed him, which seems increasingly more likely, then the police did a horrid disservice to everything they should hold dear.

If the evidence against him is fabricated, and that is the evidence upon which his conviction depends, then the state cannot prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and he should walk.

That's the way our system is supposed to work, "... better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer ..."* and all that.

If someone supports our system of justice then that is one of the fundamental tenets they have to accept.

Not the, "Well, I never liked that bastard, and I think he was probably guilty, anyway. So let's convict him anyway, and anyhow he got off the last time 'cause of fancy lawyerin'. Plus, he's probably guilty of sumthin'. Lock 'im up.", approach to justice that seems to be popular among some circles.


[*: For purists and pedants. That's the Ben Franklin version of the quote.)
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Old 8th June 2017, 01:51 PM   #3732
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theres still so much missing i think im kind of let down abit.

1) the fly over video in full...what happened to that? I though KZ was going to show the full version that proves the suv wasnt there.

2) RC14 dated blood was to be interesting

sure I think he should walk or get a new trial and all that but ...

Ive read the 220 3times now and its not clear to me how this system works.
Basically one side saying a scenario that profiles RH as the killer but theres no RH anywhere and because he came and went in the house and SUV he could slip out of anything. The roommate who was sexual relationship and the married guy might have more of a chance to help find the truth than anyone, but then is it just more he said/ryan said/ Sweaty Kraps said/ KZ said/ Buting said?

theorys and corrupt police and puppet judges?
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Old 8th June 2017, 01:57 PM   #3733
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
theorys and corrupt police and puppet judges?
Doesn't matter much if KZ is going for ineffective assistance of counsel as a way to reopen the case. All she needs is one thing to stick that has merit.
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Old 8th June 2017, 08:48 PM   #3734
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I found this interesting in the motion theory that the murder happened at TH's place.

Mr. Hillegas' cell phone records show significant gaps during time periods in question.
On October 31, 2005, there was a six hour gap - a time frame in which there were
neither incoming nor outgoing calls - from 9:41 a.m. to 3:48 p.m. (Ryan Hillegas Phone
Records, P-C Exhibit 57). It is most likely that during this time frame, Ms. Halbach
departed the Avery property, departed the Zipperer property, and was killed after she
arrived home at approximately 3:40-3:50 p.m.


If I recall someone, the mom of the victim mentioned the garage door was open when she went to check on TH which wasnt normal. Anyone recall that?
Did anyone do searches of the garage and home?
Then he moved into her home with the best friend(lover of his girlfriend...ex..kind of? weird relationship RH had)

How many boyfriends keep coming around for years and their best friend is porking the female they supposedly broke up with but didnt really break up with?
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:12 PM   #3735
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
I found this interesting in the motion theory that the murder happened at TH's place.

Mr. Hillegas' cell phone records show significant gaps during time periods in question.
On October 31, 2005, there was a six hour gap - a time frame in which there were
neither incoming nor outgoing calls - from 9:41 a.m. to 3:48 p.m. (Ryan Hillegas Phone
Records, P-C Exhibit 57). It is most likely that during this time frame, Ms. Halbach
departed the Avery property, departed the Zipperer property, and was killed after she
arrived home at approximately 3:40-3:50 p.m.


If I recall someone, the mom of the victim mentioned the garage door was open when she went to check on TH which wasnt normal. Anyone recall that?
Did anyone do searches of the garage and home?
Then he moved into her home with the best friend(lover of his girlfriend...ex..kind of? weird relationship RH had)

How many boyfriends keep coming around for years and their best friend is porking the female they supposedly broke up with but didnt really break up with?
The clues were there all along just like Agatha Christie.
I would have got RH if I hadn't worked out James Lenk.
Hang on, Charlie worked out James Lenk so I blame him for preventing me solving the crime.
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Old 9th June 2017, 04:56 AM   #3736
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the Gov Attorney General already ignoring the document, the new evidence.
the obstinate system is sickening really they should be removed from office or worse.
I understand the real motive for the cover-up now is money.
The State and the Insurance Inc dont want to payout $100+million for two wrongful convictions and one thats made national headlines. Its not about Lenk and Colburn and Pagel losing their pension or the SweatyPervProsecutor and its definitively not about finding the real killer.

$36 million....$100million arbitrary values, but the motive is clear why the system suits refuse the truth...refuse to even look at the evidence. very sad and pathetic.

We confirmed AG and former prosecutors do not even have possession of 1000 pages of exhibits.Zellner

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Old 9th June 2017, 05:26 AM   #3737
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
the Gov Attorney General already ignoring the document, the new evidence.
the obstinate system is sickening really they should be removed from office or worse.
I understand the real motive for the cover-up now is money.
The State and the Insurance Inc dont want to payout $100+million for two wrongful convictions and one thats made national headlines. Its not about Lenk and Colburn and Pagel losing their pension or the SweatyPervProsecutor and its definitively not about finding the real killer.

$36 million....$100million arbitrary values, but the motive is clear why the system suits refuse the truth...refuse to even look at the evidence. very sad and pathetic.

We confirmed AG and former prosecutors do not even have possession of 1000 pages of exhibits.Zellner
JREF2010:
At least we can watch this train wreck because Zellner attacks with Buffett style budget.
My position will be permanent, Steve did not, could not, do any part of this weird crime.

Here are the stats from our local luminaries, who in fairness dont regard this as but a diversion from present life concerns


Steven and Brendan are both completely innocent. 3 9.38%
Steven and Brenden may both be guilty, but there is reasonable doubt. 14 43.75%
Steven is guilty, but reasonable doubt exists for Brendan. 4 12.50%
Brendan is guilty, but reasonable doubt exists for Steven. 0 0%
Steven and Brenden are both guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. 7 21.88%
On Planet X, Justice is coming, and She's pissed. 4
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Old 9th June 2017, 04:57 PM   #3738
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nice list of stats.

time to soak in the data.

The Key: proven the DNA is 10x's normal = DNA planted

The Bullet: no bone residue= did not go into victims head bone, DNA planted or just a "misread" by the AppeasingPoofyHair smirking Lab tech.

The SUV: hmmm?
The SUV blood: more reading needed?

I admit "the Killer' legal maneuver is the shock but isnt it pre-mature to setup a iron barred-cell for RH?

A big question I cant find the answer to has to do with the court system.
What and who will decide if the KZellner gets the Trial and how much does Shimel/Wisconsin AG have to do with anything?
What court will decide what and if a Trial is accepted which court will take this trial?

(and in the meantime hopefully a detective will find the mysterious white jeep that helped plant the SUV on the Avery property per the old man neighbor)
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Old 9th June 2017, 06:53 PM   #3739
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
nice list of stats.

time to soak in the data.

The Key: proven the DNA is 10x's normal = DNA planted

The Bullet: no bone residue= did not go into victims head bone, DNA planted or just a "misread" by the AppeasingPoofyHair smirking Lab tech.

The SUV: hmmm?
The SUV blood: more reading needed?

I admit "the Killer' legal maneuver is the shock but isnt it pre-mature to setup a iron barred-cell for RH?

A big question I cant find the answer to has to do with the court system.
What and who will decide if the KZellner gets the Trial and how much does Shimel/Wisconsin AG have to do with anything?
What court will decide what and if a Trial is accepted which court will take this trial?

(and in the meantime hopefully a detective will find the mysterious white jeep that helped plant the SUV on the Avery property per the old man neighbor)
I thought I read in Zellner that Colborn's private vehicle helped Hillegas plant the car.
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Old 10th June 2017, 01:29 PM   #3740
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So, now what?

What is the next step in the process, and what will -or might- the outcome be?
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Old 10th June 2017, 02:31 PM   #3741
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
So, now what?

What is the next step in the process, and what will -or might- the outcome be?
Prosecution has 30 days to respond, I believe.
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:34 PM   #3742
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
So, now what?

What is the next step in the process, and what will -or might- the outcome be?
Next step? The appeal gets denied.
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:47 PM   #3743
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Next step? The appeal gets denied.
This is getting far less frequent

From Bruce Fisher on IA

"According to the National Registry of Exonerations, courts in the United States overturned 165 wrongful convictions in 2016, which broke 2015’s record of 149 corrected wrongful convictions. It is promising to see that the numbers continue to be on the rise. If you look at data over the past 25 years, we are now seeing substantial progress.

Over the past quarter century, America has incarcerated more people than any civilized nation on earth. A disturbing number of those incarcerations have been wrongful convictions. Hundreds of exonerations can be credited to advanced DNA technology. But research on topics like, bite mark evidence, fire investigation technology, and shaken baby syndrome, have all played a significant role as well. The ability to distribute information via the internet has also proven to be an invaluable resource when fighting wrongful convictions.

Exoneration statistics show that we are on the right track, but we have a long way to go. We need to correct the mistakes we have made, all while working to reforming the system which allowed those mistakes to occur in the first place. Sadly, the wrongful conviction problem is far more pervasive than most people realize, and even with increased interest, most cases continue to lack the attention they warrant. Many innocent people remain in prison. They need others to be their voice. They need you. Please join us in the fight to free the innocent."

And this is not an appeal. It is true the going is tough at first direct appeal against a murder conviction.
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:58 PM   #3744
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the affidavits are interesting ..from the Hoodlatch-expert

In other words in almost three-quarters (73%) of the hood opening trials, no measurable
DNA was left behind by the individual who opened the hood. Put another way, even
when DNA was left on the hood latch after opening the hood, the amount of DNA
recovered was between twenty (20) and thirty-five (35) times less than that recovered
from the item identified as MO5-2467 #ID. To put it yet another way, the Madison
laboratory recovered from six (6) to seven (7) times more DNA than all of the DNA
recovered from all of the fifteen (15) hood openings, combined.
30. Given the experimental results, both the body fluid detection data and the DNA
recovery data from the hood latch opening trials, the question of what sample MOS-2467
#ID really might be, becomes a subject for investigation.


very similar to the Key......too much DNA! lol the "farmers" arent very good at their job it seems.

who was rubbing items with the toothbrush? we might never know.

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Old 10th June 2017, 05:18 PM   #3745
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
the affidavits are interesting ..from the Hoodlatch-expert

In other words in almost three-quarters (73%) of the hood opening trials, no measurable
DNA was left behind by the individual who opened the hood. Put another way, even
when DNA was left on the hood latch after opening the hood, the amount of DNA
recovered was between twenty (20) and thirty-five (35) times less than that recovered
from the item identified as MO5-2467 #ID. To put it yet another way, the Madison
laboratory recovered from six (6) to seven (7) times more DNA than all of the DNA
recovered from all of the fifteen (15) hood openings, combined.
30. Given the experimental results, both the body fluid detection data and the DNA
recovery data from the hood latch opening trials, the question of what sample MOS-2467
#ID really might be, becomes a subject for investigation.


very similar to the Key......too much DNA! lol the "farmers" arent very good at their job it seems.

who was rubbing items with the toothbrush? we might never know.
Too much egg in the omelette, too much fast fertilizer on the seedlings.

Since everything was planted, it will interesting to see the county fight back.

I like that toothbrush idea, maybe it was used to paint the blood in the rav4 after the key and hoodlatch were completed.
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Old 10th June 2017, 06:07 PM   #3746
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Next step? The appeal gets denied.
Do they have to state their reasons for denying it?
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Old 10th June 2017, 06:15 PM   #3747
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Do they have to state their reasons for denying it?
Yes. However, I was being a bit glib in that first response. The actual next step is for the prosecution to file motions - in essence, a rebuttal of Zellner's motion. Then both sides get to argue all of it in front of the appeals court. (Even that is a bit of a streamlined version, but should suffice.)

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Old 10th June 2017, 06:31 PM   #3748
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Yes. However, I was being a bit glib in that first response. The actual next step is for the prosecution to file motions - in essence, a rebuttal of Zellner's motion. Then both sides get to argue all of it in front of the appeals court. (Even that is a bit of a streamlined version, but should suffice.)
Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.
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Old 10th June 2017, 06:42 PM   #3749
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.
We can all play along if we have a copy of Zellner's motion to keep us on track.

It's not a bad skeptical exercise - so long as we understand the actual issue isn't whether or not SA is innocent, but whether he got a fair shake from his previous attorney.
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Old 10th June 2017, 07:18 PM   #3750
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.
That is indeed the most interesting item, the vial looked home for all money but has been abandoned. Jerry Buting explains how he discovered it in his book, and the EDTA testing. It appears the EDTA work may have been legitimate, so Ken Kratz was entitled to believe that Avery had bled in her car.

However, no crime reconstruction makes the remotest sense of the car being driven from the wrecking yard with Avery inside, nor does the obvious conclusion she bled from her head gun shot wounds in the back of the car.
Clearly the vehicle became her coffin for a while, and nothing gets close to Steve Avery working in the phone call to Jodi and the fire pit bones magically appearing in his fire pit.

So the obvious source of blood becomes the trailer. Was it dried blood reconstituted with water? Does this work?
We can all vamp it up and do our own little experiment.

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Old 10th June 2017, 11:28 PM   #3751
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Was it dried blood reconstituted with water? Does this work?
I've been wondering that, too.

If someone just wiped it up with something like Q-tips, then dipped them into water, would it rehydrate to a state that could be dripped out like ink or paint? If so, that could expain it.

Ballsy move, though, to break into someone's trailer to look for something to use; and then to find something so serendipitous(?) and think on his feet of a way to use it.

Strange, though, that we've not heard about the sudden blood cleanup before. That would be so strange if it happened to me I'd be telling everyone about it. "My door was jimmied open, and some blood I left in the sink was cleaned up. Who? Why? WTF???"
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Old 11th June 2017, 04:46 AM   #3752
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I dont see the theory as precise and had some trouble following why the defense included only one option. For example, why does the sink-blood have to be some separate event by a person in particular?

I kind of see the trailer and all the evidence to grab and steal for planting and framing an open garage sale like horrific mess because no one made it a real crime scene soon enough. No log of who came in and left and with what. Why was Lenk and Colbrun in the trailer over and over or even allowed in once?
Werent all the other detectives and police tromping through the trailer enough?
Its like the Italy/Kercher case where they tromped all over the blood and didnt change gloves etc.. and no one kept a logbook of the items etc..

The toothbrush is gone/taken, add the MCSD (Colburn/Lenk and many others RH?) tromping through the tiny trailer many times while what appears to be young cavemen like Calumet cops babysitting Colburn (who didnt see any aliens he says on the stand) and toss that all into the Manitowoc stew of discontent and a $36 mill lawsuit in progress....

Its just too bad for the police and investigators who try to do good work that they have the Colburns/Lenks and other goobers to deal with...geez.

I wonder what Sandra Morris thinks about all this? wow..
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Old 11th June 2017, 05:00 AM   #3753
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.
you're probably right, there is some reason Zellner bought a SUV which aligns to it being her biggest focus too.

as someone said the whole cell phone tower thing was not mentioned, the RC14 age blood test not mentioned.

I just read the affidavit of the SUV tests in her SUV last night. today some poster mentioned if she could get a evidentiary trial then she could take her own samples from the TH SUV instead of using the splits from MCSD/Calumet samples.

theres so much missed, the broken headlamp wasnt tested, the fingerprints and a lot of evidence probably disappeared like the un-edited flyover video etc... the RH hand cuts and the affidavit of the pro-expert was a huge missed elephant in the room. add that ScottB blurts out RH name as a suspect might be a oil well of "theorys and peculiar comments".

what a case, Hollywood couldnt write one so insane.
locked up twice, framed? police inbred hillbilly hate, Capital Hill phot ops and a Avery Phony Bill for jumping to conclusions ignored as its passed, the Netflix massive viewing audience never before done...and too many more twists and turns to mention.
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Old 11th June 2017, 06:33 AM   #3754
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The RH thing is new to me the very creepy finger-scrapes on his hand mentioned by the professional and seen in the evidence pictures.

His testimony to Buting is odd. RH says he still came to his ex-Gf's house "once a week".but in his testimony he mentions maybe not seeing her the three times a week he might stop over, and other weeks maybe be there 3 days.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...3.pdf#page=173

He seems to have not moved on and I'll guess unaware his best friend was having sexual relationship with her and the married guy in short RH was clueless.

He never once mentions Theresa came to my place to see me....it was a one -sided , non-invited visit. He constantly came to her home which shows the weaker side of the relationship.

He also mentions in his testimony he knew everything about her and they were very open, yet he didnt know about the buddy having sex with her and the married guy.
Or he knew and lied on the stand. I would guess he didnt know and no one told him they were having sex with his ex-gf he hadnt moved on from.

imagine Weigart and Factbender talking to Ryan and his hands having the scrapes of murder right in front of their nose. could be?

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Old 11th June 2017, 11:43 AM   #3755
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I dont see the theory as precise and had some trouble following why the defense included only one option. For example, why does the sink-blood have to be some separate event by a person in particular?
It troubles me.

I can only think of one reason SA would bleed into the sink: because he was going to wash his hands. If he washed his hands, why didn't he wash away the blood? I realize he's a guy living alone -girlfriend in jail, no need to be too fastidious, but leaving blood while the sink is running just seems unlikely.

I'm just not sure I buy it. I suspect if someone testified "I washed my hands, but still left blood in the sink." I'd be disinclined to believe it.
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Old 11th June 2017, 11:45 AM   #3756
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
you're probably right, there is some reason Zellner bought a SUV which aligns to it being her biggest focus too.

as someone said the whole cell phone tower thing was not mentioned, the RC14 age blood test not mentioned.

I just read the affidavit of the SUV tests in her SUV last night. today some poster mentioned if she could get a evidentiary trial then she could take her own samples from the TH SUV instead of using the splits from MCSD/Calumet samples.

theres so much missed, the broken headlamp wasnt tested, the fingerprints and a lot of evidence probably disappeared like the un-edited flyover video etc... the RH hand cuts and the affidavit of the pro-expert was a huge missed elephant in the room. add that ScottB blurts out RH name as a suspect might be a oil well of "theorys and peculiar comments".

what a case, Hollywood couldnt write one so insane.
locked up twice, framed? police inbred hillbilly hate, Capital Hill phot ops and a Avery Phony Bill for jumping to conclusions ignored as its passed, the Netflix massive viewing audience never before done...and too many more twists and turns to mention.
The radio-carbon blood test (and DNA methylation test) is mentioned in a footnote on page 50. There was insufficient quantity to run the test.
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Old 11th June 2017, 12:47 PM   #3757
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So far as "too much DNA":

Does anyone know if there would be more DNA deposited by someone who is on-edge, hyped up and nervous from just having committed a murder if compared to someone who is just calmly going about daily life?
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Old 11th June 2017, 03:20 PM   #3758
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
So far as "too much DNA":

Does anyone know if there would be more DNA deposited by someone who is on-edge, hyped up and nervous from just having committed a murder if compared to someone who is just calmly going about daily life?
What an interesting question. Hopefully someone will come along and explain the answer. Just off the top of my head I'm going to guess that it is possible to detect the difference in the DNA, at least in terms of stress levels?
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Old 11th June 2017, 04:57 PM   #3759
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
It troubles me.

I can only think of one reason SA would bleed into the sink: because he was going to wash his hands. If he washed his hands, why didn't he wash away the blood? I realize he's a guy living alone -girlfriend in jail, no need to be too fastidious, but leaving blood while the sink is running just seems unlikely.

I'm just not sure I buy it. I suspect if someone testified "I washed my hands, but still left blood in the sink." I'd be disinclined to believe it.
There is a reason the blood is there, maybe it is still the vial, but access and testing are problems. Zellner has introduced an idea that can't be disproven, so can be accommodated with the preponderance of evidence.
For example, if Steve bled in the car, it is the only mistake he made.
We can rule out that he planted bones in his own fire pit, that he planted his own dna on the key and hoodlatch. These aspects must have involved police bolstering their case. There is no point in any other party planting evidence as they were logically uninvolved, nothing to hide.
He would need to have burned the body in the quarry and Lenk/Colborn find bones and move them. But of course why would they? They already had his blood in the car, and he was the last to see her alive. There would be other evidence that he had done all this, there would be a complete case for any jury.

No, the blood in the car resolves into planted evidence, nothing else fits, and we have two sources of blood to consider.
Certainly in pulling the trailer to pieces, some dried blood from that thumb bleed could easily be found.
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Old 11th June 2017, 10:03 PM   #3760
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
It troubles me.

I can only think of one reason SA would bleed into the sink: because he was going to wash his hands. If he washed his hands, why didn't he wash away the blood? I realize he's a guy living alone -girlfriend in jail, no need to be too fastidious, but leaving blood while the sink is running just seems unlikely.

I'm just not sure I buy it. I suspect if someone testified "I washed my hands, but still left blood in the sink." I'd be disinclined to believe it.
that made me laugh as Ive seen so much "pigville" around my place with the young men and kids and leaving everything everywhere and filth can be very common in a evidence topic. Looking at Steves trailer I might guess the sink was cleaned once every 3 months maybe...but who knows. It just doesnt seem like cleanliness was a priority. It doesnt surprise me if his blood and anything, sat in the sink for months. just adding to the perception of cleaning a sink..lol

The trailer and access to the sink-blood (also the car he bled in) seems insane to think about.

Ive said it before it shocks me how many tromped through Steves Trailer in total? 5, 15, 25 police and search-party folk? How many times? They tore the place apart maybe they all had access to the blood in the sink.

The police are seen on film bumbling around in the trailer, touching stuff, grabbing it, taking it and not logging it...its in the MAM when Jodi comes out and STeves arrested already. It look like a tornado hit it, a common sloppy crime scene in a lot of these cases it seems.

The one piece I read was Steve ran in to get a fast bandaid (made from masking tape) and his brother was waiting on him. Thats how the blood got there, the wound broke open and he went into the trailer slapped some tape on the cut....Ive done that many times too, I'll use scotch tape or anything available. Often a napkin and scotch tape for hand cuts. Thats pretty common as many dont have nice bandaids around. I dont buy sotre bought bandaids often.
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