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Tags "Making a Murderer" , Brendan Dassey , documentaries , murder cases , Steven Avery , Teresa Halbach , tv shows

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Old 22nd January 2017, 07:23 PM   #3361
JREF2010
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Zellner has become silent. The tests in progress and Radiocarbon dating seems to be the main allowance by the courts, other evidence testing denied. The hood latch DNA is to prove it was planted but not as we thought, instead it was "planted" probably by Poofy Hair?

NOV 2.....Jan 2.....Feb 2.....

These critical items of evidence will undergo testing as part of this week’s court order:

Blood flakes recovered from the floor near the center console of Halbach’s RAV4.

Bloodstain cutting from the driver’s seat.

Bloodstain cutting from passenger’s seat.

Swab of the RAV 4 ignition area where blood was found.

Swab of bloodstain taken from the rear passenger’s door.

Swab of bloodstain taken from a CD case found in vehicle.

Additionally, three other items of evidence used to secure Avery’s arrest and eventual conviction are subject to the new testing order.

Those items are:

A vial of blood said to be a sample of Avery’s blood from 1996. This was the vial of blood that Avery’s murder trial defense lawyers Dean Strang and Jerry Buting came across during their pretrial case research inside the clerk’s office at the Manitowoc County Courthouse.

A spare key for Halbach’s vehicle found in Avery’s bedroom by Manitowoc County Sheriff’s deputies James Lenk and Andrew Colborn.

The swab from the hood latch of Halbach’s RAV4 that later generated a DNA profile for Avery. Forensic testing on the hood latch was not performed by the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madison, even though the lab initially impounded the vehicle and conducted a battery of standard forensic tests. Rather, the swab of the hood latch that yielded the DNA profile of the murder defendant did not occur until six months later. In April 2006, Calumet County sheriff’s officials decided to carry out their own forensic testing of the hood area.

Zellner has said she wants to determine if the hood latch DNA swab was fabricated from other known DNA samples that were in the possession of Calumet and Manitowoc County law enforcement.

Last edited by JREF2010; 22nd January 2017 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 07:37 PM   #3362
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more additional info of whats going on-
Online court records show the judge submitted stipulations and orders for the testing,
which includes radiocarbon testing and DNA source testing.

The evidence will be transported by a Calumet County sheriff’s lieutenant to the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madison, where samples will be divided in half by a forensic scientist from the crime lab and one chosen by the defense. The state has agreed the defense can have all of the blood flakes taken from the floor by the center console, if reducing them by half wouldn’t give them a sufficient sample to test.

The judge also stipulated:

The lab chosen by the defense will deliver results simultaneously to the state and the defense, including bench notes and photographs
The defense will pay for packaging, transporting and testing the samples
The remaining halves of the samples will be preserved by the Wisconsin State Crime Lab
The order was agreed to by two special prosecutors and two defense attorneys, including Zellner.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 07:44 PM   #3363
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Testing denied- Fingerprint DNA...too bad.


“Since 2007, more sensitive forensic DNA techniques have been developed that can recover sufficient DNA for profiling from…fingerprints,” states the motion, which also requests fingerprints from Colborn and Lenk, the two Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department deputies. “If the unidentified fingerprints on the victim’s vehicle match either Officer [Andrew] Colborn or Officer [James] Lenk, it would be significant evidence of their involvement in moving the victim’s vehicle onto the Avery property.” (Both Colborn and Lenk have denied they planted evidence.)

The motion asks to perform DNA tests on a lug wrench found in Halbach’s car, burned items found at the Radandt deer hunting camp and three locations inside Halbach’s car. “According to the State’s theory, Mr. Avery was not wearing gloves and bled from his cut finger inside the RAV-4,” the motion states, implying the state’s case would be undermined if Avery’s blood is not found in those locations.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 09:58 PM   #3364
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who, what, where....I went looking to refresh my memory of the testing in progress for the Defense.

http://www.newsweek.com/steven-avery...mbshell-493873

I would imagine some of it is finished, its been months, which was the guesstimate but maybe they will wait for all of it to be completed that could be a very long time.

Then again maybe she has some of it completed and is why she tweeted the last NOT 1 but 8 planted tweet....hmm?
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Old 23rd January 2017, 12:08 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
who, what, where....I went looking to refresh my memory of the testing in progress for the Defense.

http://www.newsweek.com/steven-avery...mbshell-493873

I would imagine some of it is finished, its been months, which was the guesstimate but maybe they will wait for all of it to be completed that could be a very long time.

Then again maybe she has some of it completed and is why she tweeted the last NOT 1 but 8 planted tweet....hmm?
Zellner is gold standard.

She does not pussy foot, she charges around like a bull in a china shop.

Eggsellent.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 04:06 PM   #3366
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
more additional info of whats going on-
Online court records show the judge submitted stipulations and orders for the testing,
which includes radiocarbon testing and DNA source testing.
...
Given the typical margin of error for radiocarbon dating, how can that kind of testing be relevant? What am I missing?
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Old 23rd January 2017, 05:59 PM   #3367
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Originally Posted by Davidm View Post
Given the typical margin of error for radiocarbon dating, how can that kind of testing be relevant? What am I missing?
Good question. This, apparently:

https://www.nij.gov/journals/269/pag...on-dating.aspx

Predicts birth year withing 1.5 years. Pretty amazing.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 10:07 PM   #3368
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Good question. This, apparently:

https://www.nij.gov/journals/269/pag...on-dating.aspx

Predicts birth year withing 1.5 years. Pretty amazing.
Interesting. That's a different principle but it makes sense. Of course it determines the time of birth rather than the time of death.

Last edited by Davidm; 23rd January 2017 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:45 PM   #3369
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Originally Posted by Davidm View Post
Interesting. That's a different principle but it makes sense. Of course it determines the time of birth rather than the time of death.
Yeah, it sure is. They do time of death too - they talk about it in that article. It's not as accurate, but on cold-cases it sure narrows down a lot of the possibilities.

I'd say we don't know the half of what Zellner is up to and the kinds of capabilities the tests have. Gold standard, I agree.
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Old 25th January 2017, 07:19 AM   #3370
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Aug 2016 "large number of scientists," including those from Stockholm, Sweden; Vienna, Austria; California and Illinois will do the testing, according to Zellner.Zellner told reporters the defense will do every conceivable test to prove Avery's innocence, including one that will determine whether blood was planted during the investigation.The tests could be completed within the next few months, she said.

AUGUST 2016
“Mr. Avery has already completed a series of tests that will conclusively establish his innocence,” Zellner said in the new motion, according to Newsweek. The news magazine said Zeller will “reveal her theory on the identity of the real killer once she has the results of the new tests she intends to conduct.”
************************************************** *****

I'm trying to wrap my small brain around this filing of Zellener/Avery....who's doing what? Im trying to dumb this down on whats being tested and where by whom.

Sources of DNA...where the DNA "really" came from...
blood, urine, saliva or semen are the only choices.
(ok? I get this kind of. Zellner wants to first show what the DNA is to blow holes in the prosecution case theory. Is it Blood or Saliva on the Key will be found out.) They asked for Fingerprint testing but was rejected by the Courts, right? So no New DNA tests for fingerprints (broken light and license plate dismissed for now).

**DNA Source Testing to be done by Dr. Reich, Illinois.

RC14 testing Dr.Spalding & Dr. Steier on blood from RAV 4.
If the results are 14C/C its from 2005, if blood was planted from the 1996 vial it will be a different value. Also this test could detect EDTA.

If RC14 fails due to contamination, Dr. Horvath DNA Methylation is to be performed at UCLA. in 2012 alogrithm could correlate chronological age to 96% of 9 tissue samples.
To 3yrs for blood and 18 months for buccal swabs.
Marco Boks used this testing for war vets and saw 99.7% accuracy, median error in months. (so determining between 1996 vial of blood and 2005 seems easy?) If RC14 is conaminated the backup for age testing is to be done byDr. Devon Absher, Alabama.

For the Key and buccal swabs, Trace Testing to be done Mr. Palenik.
Checking for what was used to wipe his DNA onto the key and used to wipe off TH dna from the key. Also to test if ,as the prosecution stated, Averys blood hid TH's DNA on the key. Buccal swab testing taken from Avery and correlate to the hood latch.

Dr G Nelson Eby to test the bullets, at Massachusetts.


hmmmm?

I dont see anything much on the bones?
And I dont see anything on my current interest of the "edited" Pagel Helicopter fly over.

Hillegas or Randant?.....either way Lenk and Colburn were the "gardners"..
Cuts and bruises on the hands, lies about fires they couldnt see....still not Obvious to me.
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Old 25th January 2017, 07:36 AM   #3371
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Good question. This, apparently:

https://www.nij.gov/journals/269/pag...on-dating.aspx

Predicts birth year withing 1.5 years. Pretty amazing.
Im actually starting to understand , at the least, what this testing is.
Interesting article and the graph helped. Based off the nuclear bombs, never knew all that. The drop off of the graph shows this case can benefit from this testing. 18 months. Zellners talking 1996 or 2005...seems shes betting on the vial being the source for the planting police.

So now trying to decipher her tweets, "Not 1 but 8 planted" she mentions could be the Source DNA testing is finished which would be more of a basic testing= faster results.

Im guessing here. Im assuming the RC14 takes longer. Hopefully its not contaminated, but it looks like per her filing, theres a back up plan for the aging tests.

I suppose if Steve gets released and the State and County owes him 100's of millions he might fund more testing to find the real killer and the planters.
Support Pete Baetz being Sheriff and the books could open up and people would talk most likely.

Lenk and Colburn wont have the crooked smirk grin, forever like they did on the stand. Its wierd even on the MAM you notice Colburn is there all the time walking Brendan to the car, sitting behind Brendan in court, almost an impression he was keeping everyone away from him and a abnormal close watch of the trial activities.

Kind of sickening really, how the State , just passing the Avery Bill, allowed the MCSD and Kratz to ignore RH, and all the others and Tunnel Vision on Avery? how bizarre is that? All those suits on State Hill doing nothing for a Bill they just signed into law? They should be held accountable for a new law called DO NOTHING POLITICIANS LAW...where they are immediately removed from office and only given 4 cardboard boxes to get out in 4hrs.
ha
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Old 25th January 2017, 07:45 PM   #3372
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Zellner in August- 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nAk_FBaXMg

A lot of silence in some ways, but the works going and the big test completion should be soon.

She states it well, going backwards mentioning 3 months. But the data and tests already completed will prove his innocence but they are going to go ahead and do the full testing available.

She talking buccal swabs and not only blood. Seems the Hood Latch is a big one to her.
Saliva is on the Hood Latch, so the Source DNA testing.
Carbon14 tests to complete at 2 months..estimate.

Post Convcition trials can take up to 3 yrs.!! yikes.
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Old 25th January 2017, 07:59 PM   #3373
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Blood in the Rav4 looked tough. Lucky cool hands Jerry and Dean found that little accident of Lenk's.

Funny how these essential ingredients are so often snake oil....
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Old 26th January 2017, 05:07 AM   #3374
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Its interesting too for Kratz, he says on TV the hoodlatch evidence was the big one for him.

Yet the courts didnt allow the fingerprint study. odd?

Luckily for Steve he didnt admit he did it (he avoided the coerced confession) so the SUV evidence is the big one. There is no sweat DNA, so its probably not urine and its not semen, so we know its not blood too...now that leaves saliva as Source DNA.

So for the Hoodlatch the DNA was there because:

a) Steve licked the hoodlatch
b) Someone planted it

If someone planted it, who would have access to Steve's DNA saliva
a) police
b) Loof the police dog

Its saddening the courts didnt allow Zellner to test everything, she offered to pay for it.
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Old 28th January 2017, 08:44 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Blood in the Rav4 looked tough. Lucky cool hands Jerry and Dean found that little accident of Lenk's.

Funny how these essential ingredients are so often snake oil....
whats the little accident?

this case has gone into legal-desert nothingness waiting game for science.
months to get the data. and then the data has to be sorted and confirmed.
who knows...it was also the holidays.

I feel a bit better to know what, who and where the tests are being done but its a long wait in real life, TV shows are so much faster.

A 6th grader without legal training or police training can see Lenk and Colburn are obviously up to no good. How deep it goes for the $36million case and Sandra Morris MCSD Hate club vs Avery Clan is unknown.

the sickening capital hill suits who signed the Avery Bill and did nothing is probably to blame for the quick rush to judgment and turning a blind eye to the obvious case of poor investigation and skullduggery. They all deserve to lose their jobs. ...politicians running the country instead of real people.

Hopefully SA will get out and this time the Capital Hill suits will be presenting him a $100million+ check and their resignation for being failures and cowards.

The Steve Avery Bill.....geeez

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Old 28th January 2017, 08:53 AM   #3376
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Sweat and DNA

JREF2010,

At least one reference I have seen indicate that in general sweat does have DNA (I may have posted that reference here a long time ago). However, I am adamant that if one has not identified a source via an independent test, that the DNA should be considered "sub-source" and treated accordingly. Is there any reason to rule out sweat?
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Old 29th January 2017, 08:52 PM   #3377
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
JREF2010,

At least one reference I have seen indicate that in general sweat does have DNA (I may have posted that reference here a long time ago). However, I am adamant that if one has not identified a source via an independent test, that the DNA should be considered "sub-source" and treated accordingly. Is there any reason to rule out sweat?
Zellners filing , page 11, item 20.
The sentence reads
-it is undisputed there is no such thing as "sweat dna".

the following items 21...28 or so, talk about testing for semen, urine, blood , saliva..

anyway thats where I understood the "sweat dna"
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Old 30th January 2017, 07:18 PM   #3378
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Anyone else reading the Zellner Motion?

Everytime I read it , its like the next Season of MAM.

So Factbender was the one who brought in the Hoodlatch via Brendan coerced interrogation. How did Factbender know about the DNA, invisible Hoodlatch?

RH is listed a lot and was calling Cingular numerous times for password assistance....and he was signing into the property using a false name? How strange can this case get. And all those calls with MCSD? what? RH and MCSD? hmmm?

Pagel gets a lot more mention too.

This Randant cat, whats up with him and his lies about fires and the Quarry near his trailer? hmmm...

Has RH, or Lenk or anyone been lawyering up?
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Old 31st January 2017, 07:14 AM   #3379
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Zellners motion (pdf)- aka Season 2 MAM....

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...ic-Testing.pdf

Line 44 is interesting. I had always asked if the RAV 4 is still in quarantine and it seems to be available because Zellner asks for more samples straight from the RAV4. "to scrape new samples from the RAV 4"
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Old 31st January 2017, 07:43 AM   #3380
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DNA in sweat

There is DNA in sweat. “Cell free DNA as a component of forensic evidence recovered from touched surfaces” Quinones I., Daniel B., Forensic Science International: Genetics 2012 6(1) 26-30. PMID: 21292581. doi:10.1016/j.fsigen.2011.01.004.

“In this investigation, the presence of CNAs [cell-free nucleic acids] in sweat was detected on 80% of healthy individuals tested, with an average concentration of 11.5 ng of cell free DNA recovered per mL of cell free sweat. The mechanism for diffusion of CNAs into sweat is currently unknown, but is thought to be analogous to the excretion of other metabolites in sweat through sweat ducts.”
EDT
DNA can be found in sebaceous fluid, according to work by Vecchiotti. DNA that arrives via touch may have more than one source, including cell-free DNA. I don't think that the distinction between touch DNA and sweat DNA is especially important in the context of this particular sample. However, if there is no tissue or fluid associated with a DNA profile, then it is sub-source DNA, and one should not call it sweat DNA, touch DNA or anything else.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:52 PM   #3381
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Anyone else reading the Zellner Motion?

Everytime I read it , its like the next Season of MAM.

So Factbender was the one who brought in the Hoodlatch via Brendan coerced interrogation. How did Factbender know about the DNA, invisible Hoodlatch?

RH is listed a lot and was calling Cingular numerous times for password assistance....and he was signing into the property using a false name? How strange can this case get. And all those calls with MCSD? what? RH and MCSD? hmmm?

Pagel gets a lot more mention too.

This Randant cat, whats up with him and his lies about fires and the Quarry near his trailer? hmmm...

Has RH, or Lenk or anyone been lawyering up?
Factbender knew as soon as the RAV 4 was found the battery had been disconnected which would have required somebody to touch the latch in order to open the hood. I've often wondered if testing on the latch actually happened much earlier than April (because any moron should have/would have figured out very early on that somebody must have touched it). They just needed to get Brendan to talk about to make it sound as if key evidence against both had been found thanks to Brendan's confession. I think it's nut sack DNA on that Hoodlatch.

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Old 8th February 2017, 06:50 PM   #3382
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The case seems to be dependent on the DNA science again, as Avery found out the first time he was wrongfully convicted.
But Zellners got more than DNA, the cell phone info is still unanswered. Who lives around this Whitelaw place and deletes voicemails.? any guess's?


<old snip from filing>Mr. Avery now requests specifically for the first time that the Court order the state immediately to disclose:
All documents and information about the work schedules and whereabouts of James Lenk, Andrew Colburn, Kenneth Peterson, and Thomas Kocourek on October 31, 2005 and on November 1-4, 2005.
This includes any information about their locations and activities during nighttime hours.


I dont think this info has been turned over yet for Lenk and Colburn.
The other two chimed up.
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Old 8th February 2017, 06:52 PM   #3383
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Originally Posted by Sinsaint View Post
Factbender knew as soon as the RAV 4 was found the battery had been disconnected which would have required somebody to touch the latch in order to open the hood. I've often wondered if testing on the latch actually happened much earlier than April (because any moron should have/would have figured out very early on that somebody must have touched it). They just needed to get Brendan to talk about to make it sound as if key evidence against both had been found thanks to Brendan's confession. I think it's nut sack DNA on that Hoodlatch.
Amazing the Lenk and Colbrun didnt find Steve's driver license laying on the engine.
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Old 8th February 2017, 11:03 PM   #3384
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Amazing the Lenk and Colbrun didnt find Steve's driver license laying on the engine.
Yep good point. You must be able to produce your licence when driving car of missing murdered woman. They will wave you on.
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Old 9th February 2017, 03:07 PM   #3385
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Amazing the Lenk and Colbrun didnt find Steve's driver license laying on the engine.
No, no, no... That was under the seat along with the bloody knife Brendan said Avery used to stab Halbach with.
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Old 10th February 2017, 07:10 PM   #3386
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Im not a lawyer but this silence seems really strange in a case that was so blown out in the public voice. is this normal? Normal as in waiting for DNA work and silence about the phone towers and Zellners team so quiet, even the State isnt doing much in the news. We joke but what if the prosecution found more evidence could they present the bloody knife or some semen traces from Steve?

I wonder, assuming innocence, it would be intense if RH and Randant sit around knowing Zellner has them as main suspects in a murder case. IF the person is innocent can they counter-sue Zellner for listing them? I assume not...but it could be life ruining to be chosen as Person A or Person B.
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Old 10th February 2017, 08:56 PM   #3387
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the cell calls.

whoever deleted the messages was the killer.

TH has nuisance calls, her coworker offers to help she says "no thanks" which is probably her protecting someone she knows. Calls all hours of the night.

phone activity, Nov 2,3,4..... Judge WIllis doesnt see any relevance in Butings suggestions, Krats chokes on his sewer tongue...

Zellner says RH or Randant, I doubt Randant was calling her. that leaves....?

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Old 11th February 2017, 03:16 PM   #3388
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Im not a lawyer but this silence seems really strange in a case that was so blown out in the public voice. is this normal? Normal as in waiting for DNA work and silence about the phone towers and Zellners team so quiet, even the State isnt doing much in the news. We joke but what if the prosecution found more evidence could they present the bloody knife or some semen traces from Steve?

I wonder, assuming innocence, it would be intense if RH and Randant sit around knowing Zellner has them as main suspects in a murder case. IF the person is innocent can they counter-sue Zellner for listing them? I assume not...but it could be life ruining to be chosen as Person A or Person B.
Zellner found out it was Avery all along?
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Old 11th February 2017, 11:04 PM   #3389
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Zellner found out it was Avery all along?
that would be like striking out in a baseball game with bases loaded , tied game, last inning....last up at bat.

I think she would have dumped the case if she had any chance of that though.
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Old 11th February 2017, 11:47 PM   #3390
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
that would be like striking out in a baseball game with bases loaded , tied game, last inning....last up at bat.

I think she would have dumped the case if she had any chance of that though.
When my clients want all the dna tested it is because they are innocent she said some time ago.
Manitowoc county might read that before bedtime when figuring how to deal with the flash flood coming at them.
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Old 12th February 2017, 05:08 PM   #3391
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Tsunami....ok.

but in the meantime why is it so hard to figure out who was calling her all the time? the person calling all hours, the one she didnt want the coworker to bother with, protecting them she was....and then RH seems to fit more and more. And he was the one who signed in using a false name on the property.? why? Scott Roomate used his name? Did RH own a gun?
did he make the obsessive calls? was he a boyfriend who couldnt move on? Maybe he lead people to the SUV on the Avery lot because he knew it was there too.

Maybe Sheriff Peteresen was right , its easier to just kill people than frame them, thats what he thinks....maybe someone talked him out of it. He can now tell Lenk and Colburn "see I told you so!"
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Old 13th February 2017, 05:23 AM   #3392
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Scientific Testing ordered/approved - Nov 2016
Zellner tweets Expert Experts confirm Trial Attorneys correct about blood planting, incorrect about how it was done. Dec 2016
"Not 1 but 8 plants"Zellner tweets. Jan 8, 2017


Feb?
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Old 13th February 2017, 02:00 PM   #3393
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A book...

Originally Posted by DailyMail
The producers of hit documentary Making a Murderer duped millions of viewers into wrongly believing convicted killer Steven Avery is innocent by fabricating facts, omitting key evidence and using deceptive editing practices to misrepresent even courtroom testimony, according to a bombshell new book.

Using evidence never before revealed, maligned chief prosecutor Ken Kratz attempts to 'set the record straight' in the controversial case by proving Avery is guilty of the violent 2005 murder of Teresa Halbach.

He also shows how the filmmakers ruined the lives of two exemplary police officers Lt. James Lenk and Sgt. Andy Colborn by accusing them of framing the 54-year-old without any shred of evidence.

The explosive book, titled "Avery: The Case Against Steven Avery and What 'Making a Murderer' Gets Wrong", reveals how the Emmy-winning documentary left Kratz's life in tatters; including how he received over 4,000 death threats in the aftermath of the series, lost his law firm, his livelihood and even had exploding packages sent to his office...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ry-guilty.html

Amazon listing for the book: https://www.amazon.com/Avery-Against...sap_bc?ie=UTF8
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Old 13th February 2017, 03:05 PM   #3394
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A book...

Originally Posted by DailyMail
The producers of hit documentary Making a Murderer duped millions of viewers into wrongly believing convicted killer Steven Avery is innocent by fabricating facts, omitting key evidence and using deceptive editing practices to misrepresent even courtroom testimony, according to a bombshell new book.

Using evidence never before revealed, maligned chief prosecutor Ken Kratz attempts to 'set the record straight' in the controversial case by proving Avery is guilty of the violent 2005 murder of Teresa Halbach.

He also shows how the filmmakers ruined the lives of two exemplary police officers Lt. James Lenk and Sgt. Andy Colborn by accusing them of framing the 54-year-old without any shred of evidence.

The explosive book, titled "Avery: The Case Against Steven Avery and What 'Making a Murderer' Gets Wrong", reveals how the Emmy-winning documentary left Kratz's life in tatters; including how he received over 4,000 death threats in the aftermath of the series, lost his law firm, his livelihood and even had exploding packages sent to his office...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ry-guilty.html

Amazon listing for the book: https://www.amazon.com/Avery-Against...sap_bc?ie=UTF8

Does this mean that the chief prosecutor in the case has been withholding evidence all this time that he is now releasing in a book?
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:22 AM   #3395
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Does this mean that the chief prosecutor in the case has been withholding evidence all this time that he is now releasing in a book?
Couple points:

1.) I could be wrong, but I didn't think it was a crime to withhold inculpatory evidence, only exculpatory (but maybe it is). Kratz's never-before-heard evidence is inculpatory.

2.) Based on a recent article about the Dateline episode airing on Friday, it's my understanding a bunch of this never-before-heard evidence is evidence that the judge ruled admissible at trial.

Last edited by Samzilla; 14th February 2017 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:52 AM   #3396
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Couple points:

1.) I could be wrong, but I didn't think it was a crime to withhold inculpatory evidence, only exculpatory (but maybe it is). Kratz's never-before-heard evidence is inculpatory.

2.) Based on a recent article about the Dateline episode airing on Friday, it's my understanding a bunch of this never-before-heard evidence is evidence that the judge ruled admissible at trial.
What is really strange about the whole case is Avery had alibis everywhere, and then the cops planted evidence to obscure the alibis.
The whole thing is beyond ridiculous, including Kratz's book, which I will read for general interest.
It is factually and scientifically impossible Avery did the crime, the train wreck just carries on in slow mo.
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Old 14th February 2017, 04:46 AM   #3397
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Couple points:

1.) I could be wrong, but I didn't think it was a crime to withhold inculpatory evidence, only exculpatory (but maybe it is). Kratz's never-before-heard evidence is inculpatory.

2.) Based on a recent article about the Dateline episode airing on Friday, it's my understanding a bunch of this never-before-heard evidence is evidence that the judge ruled admissible at trial.

Letting the prosecutor decide what evidence is or isn't exculpatory for the defendant has proven to be somewhat akin to letting the fox guard the henhouse.
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Old 14th February 2017, 07:09 AM   #3398
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open case files

Some states have open discovery, in which a prosecutor must disclose everything. I am not sure about Wisconsin.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:00 AM   #3399
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Does this mean that the chief prosecutor in the case has been withholding evidence all this time that he is now releasing in a book?
I don't think so. The book appears to be a rebuttal to the TV series.

"Never before seen" appears to mean "Never before seen by you unless you were in the courtroom during the trial".

The author is saying that the TV series producers misled the viewing public by not showing them all of the things that the jury saw and heard.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:50 AM   #3400
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A book...
I do look forward to reading Kratz's book, as well as Buting's (out a week after Kratz's) and I still need to read Griesbach's two books on Avery/Dassey. Obviously each will present a biased case, but in the end what Zellner brings forward will show who is on the right side.
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