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Tags "Making a Murderer" , Brendan Dassey , documentaries , murder cases , Steven Avery , Teresa Halbach , tv shows

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Old 18th March 2017, 08:46 PM   #3481
JREF2010
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wow. you know thats another mystery to me of this case is the destroying of the body. it seems to me unimaginable but then I think if people today want to destroy the evidence they go to greater lengths due to DNA and Forensic technology getting so tough on the perp's. Meth heads killed her? thats a new one. Colburn finds it and theres the openning for the frame job and his promotion.

Zellners new post up
To all skeptics, doubters and haters, just be patient because we are really going to make you mad.
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Old 18th March 2017, 08:59 PM   #3482
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Zellners new post up
To all skeptics, doubters and haters, just be patient because we are really going to make you mad.
Well finally. Finally something other than hot air.
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Old 18th March 2017, 09:41 PM   #3483
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If I recall reading some document Zellner has to release the findings to the court immediately as she gets the results.
Im really curious of the Carbon 14 test results that will be interesting.

The cell tower info can add to the pile of evidence pointing away from Steve but the Carbon 14 would be huge.

Too bad the Judge didnt allow the license plate and the hood-latch inside the car to be tested. Why would a Judge say no if the Defense offers to pay for it all?
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Old 19th March 2017, 01:24 AM   #3484
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is a brief extract frome Buting's book that intrigues me.

And speaking with a Green Bay television reporter, Sheriff Peterson had dismissed the notion that Avery had been framed by saying, “If we wanted to eliminate Steve, it would’ve been a whole lot easier to eliminate Steve than to frame Steve.” The reporter apparently had a hard time believing what she was hearing and asked what he meant by “eliminate.” Sheriff Peterson obligingly explained. “If we wanted him killed, it would be much easier to kill him.”

..................................

I am trying to figure whether this means American police routinely kill people.

It might have been easier, but that would have left an estate which might still be able to continue the lawsuit Avery had underway.

Framing him for the murder helped encourage a settlement which was very beneficial to the state, didn't it?
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Old 19th March 2017, 01:30 AM   #3485
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It might have been easier, but that would have left an estate which might still be able to continue the lawsuit Avery had underway.

Framing him for the murder helped encourage a settlement which was very beneficial to the state, didn't it?
You figure this is something they normally do to fend off lawsuits or something they just came up with for poor old Steve? The loyalty of these city workers is stunning.
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Old 19th March 2017, 02:12 AM   #3486
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
You figure this is something they normally do to fend off lawsuits or something they just came up with for poor old Steve? The loyalty of these city workers is stunning.

That would be county workers, not city. The difference in a region like Manitowoc County is significant.

The comment was a response to the idea of the alternatives of killing him or framing him. I was pointing out one reason that simply killing him might not have been the best solution from the point of view of the pols who felt threatened by him.

As far as your response is concerned, I don't think that the idea of framing someone whose reputation had already been as damaged as Avery's was would be all that unimaginable to a backwater sheriff's dept. in a backwater county. After all, they'd railroaded him once before, so it wasn't exactly an unfamiliar concept to them.

County sheriffs in small, sparsely populated places like Manitowoc County tend to operate their jurisdictions like little fiefdoms anyway, with few external restraints on their behavior, and their idea of what is fair is what they want to think is fair. In their minds I expect they felt like Avery deserved to be in prison, whether or not it was due to a conviction for something he was actually guilty of.

Being responsible for the county facing a lawsuit which was asking for more money than the county's revenues in an average year could only add to any predilection they might have already had.

It worked, too. The settlement they managed to work out after they charged Avery for the second murder was only a tiny fraction of that annual revenue.

So, to answer your question, it probably isn't something they would "normally" contemplate doing, but Avery's case was not a "normal" one, and I can easily envision them trying to make the problem of Steve Avery go away by getting him safely tucked back into prison, with an already shredded reputation completely demolished.
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Old 19th March 2017, 02:27 AM   #3487
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
That would be county workers, not city. The difference in a region like Manitowoc County is significant.

The comment was a response to the idea of the alternatives of killing him or framing him. I was pointing out one reason that simply killing him might not have been the best solution from the point of view of the pols who felt threatened by him.

As far as your response is concerned, I don't think that the idea of framing someone whose reputation had already been as damaged as Avery's was would be all that unimaginable to a backwater sheriff's dept. in a backwater county. After all, they'd railroaded him once before, so it wasn't exactly an unfamiliar concept to them.

County sheriffs in small, sparsely populated places like Manitowoc County tend to operate their jurisdictions like little fiefdoms anyway, with few external restraints on their behavior, and their idea of what is fair is what they want to think is fair. In their minds I expect they felt like Avery deserved to be in prison, whether or not it was due to a conviction for something he was actually guilty of.

Being responsible for the county facing a lawsuit which was asking for more money than the county's revenues in an average year could only add to any predilection they might have already had.

It worked, too. The settlement they managed to work out after they charged Avery for the second murder was only a tiny fraction of that annual revenue.

So, to answer your question, it probably isn't something they would "normally" contemplate doing, but Avery's case was not a "normal" one, and I can easily envision them trying to make the problem of Steve Avery go away by getting him safely tucked back into prison, with an already shredded reputation completely demolished.
Bound to the notion of "framing someone" is an actual dead girl. That's a level of loyalty I find hard to fathom. Ten years later and no whistle blower either.

This isn't East Germany we are talking about. People are free to move, send anonymous letters - a bunch of things.

No matter how tainted you think county government may be, conspiracy is a tough narrative to pull off convincingly. Tougher still to maintain. One person turning state's witness for immunity. Just one.
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Old 19th March 2017, 03:05 AM   #3488
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Bound to the notion of "framing someone" is an actual dead girl. That's a level of loyalty I find hard to fathom. Ten years later and no whistle blower either.

This isn't East Germany we are talking about. People are free to move, send anonymous letters - a bunch of things.

No matter how tainted you think county government may be, conspiracy is a tough narrative to pull off convincingly. Tougher still to maintain. One person turning state's witness for immunity. Just one.
A dead girl with very convenient timing. I guess I must concede coincidence, Buting is clear they do not consider the police killed her.
That Avery was framed is beyond doubt. The recounted evidence in his book alone is absolute.

About 16 green backs on kindle marplots...

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ion+of+justice

Last edited by Samson; 19th March 2017 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 19th March 2017, 03:31 AM   #3489
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Bound to the notion of "framing someone" is an actual dead girl. That's a level of loyalty I find hard to fathom. Ten years later and no whistle blower either.

I don't think anyone had her killed just to frame Avery, but I don't think it is at all implausible that they would use her death to do so.

Quote:

This isn't East Germany we are talking about. People are free to move, send anonymous letters - a bunch of things.

No matter how tainted you think county government may be, conspiracy is a tough narrative to pull off convincingly. Tougher still to maintain. One person turning state's witness for immunity. Just one.

This isn't "vast conspiracy" territory. It would only take a few, most of whom would have good reason to keep silent.

Immunity wouldn't become attractive until the odds of getting caught appeared inevitable to someone. And there doesn't seem to be anyone pursuing an official criminal investigation which would even give them any basis to offer immunity to someone.

Examples are rife of small sheriff's depts. (and large ones) across the country caught red-handed with cover-ups at least as egregious as this. Sad to say, it isn't all that far-fetched.
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Old 19th March 2017, 03:35 AM   #3490
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I don't think anyone had her killed just to frame Avery, but I don't think it is at all implausible that they would use her death to do so.
That would have been an interesting conversation to overhear...

"Hey, next time someone dies, let's pin in on Steven Avery so he won't pursue that lawsuit from that last time we pinned something on him."
"Good idea. Hope someone dies soon."
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Old 19th March 2017, 09:37 AM   #3491
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
That would have been an interesting conversation to overhear...

"Hey, next time someone dies, let's pin in on Steven Avery so he won't pursue that lawsuit from that last time we pinned something on him."
"Good idea. Hope someone dies soon."
You're making it out to be more nefarious and organized than it needed to be. I'm willing to bet the bad actors within Wisconsin law enforcement both A) believed Avery was guilty and B) thought cutting corners and bending the rules was simply expediting justice.

The real evil at play here is rather banal. It's not shadowy conspiracies to frame innocent people of horrible crimes. It's members of law enforcement taking shortcuts in their jobs that end up depriving people of their rights, and all of us looking the other way because the people in question are unsavory and probably guilty anyway.

Whether anyone thinks Avery is innocent our guilty is immaterial. The real issue is the outrageous manner in which the investigation and trial were conducted.
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Old 19th March 2017, 12:13 PM   #3492
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You're making it out to be more nefarious and organized than it needed to be. I'm willing to bet the bad actors within Wisconsin law enforcement both A) believed Avery was guilty and B) thought cutting corners and bending the rules was simply expediting justice.

The real evil at play here is rather banal. It's not shadowy conspiracies to frame innocent people of horrible crimes. It's members of law enforcement taking shortcuts in their jobs that end up depriving people of their rights, and all of us looking the other way because the people in question are unsavory and probably guilty anyway.

Whether anyone thinks Avery is innocent our guilty is immaterial. The real issue is the outrageous manner in which the investigation and trial were conducted.
Remember a large part of poisoning the jury pool was allowing Kratz to deliver those press releases driven by the fake Dassey testimony. After this 129 of 130 jury prospects wrote definitely or probably guilty on the questionaire. At this stage history shows that the case is complete for the prosecution before the trial begins, and so it turned out. I do think guilt or innocence matters. The system should get it right whether Steven Avery or Barack Obama on trial. They have 99.9999% (a wild guess) common dna.

Last edited by Samson; 19th March 2017 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 19th March 2017, 03:37 PM   #3493
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7 innocent, 3 guilty, 2 undecided was the first vote....and then the planted jurors went to work.
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Old 19th March 2017, 06:55 PM   #3494
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
7 innocent, 3 guilty, 2 undecided was the first vote....and then the planted jurors went to work.
I am still reading, seven innocent is remarkable, considering they must accept at this vote that the blood is planted.
In itself this is completely outside the ballpark for common expectations of police behaviour I would have thought.
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Old 19th March 2017, 07:27 PM   #3495
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You're making it out to be more nefarious and organized than it needed to be. I'm willing to bet the bad actors within Wisconsin law enforcement both A) believed Avery was guilty and B) thought cutting corners and bending the rules was simply expediting justice.

The real evil at play here is rather banal. It's not shadowy conspiracies to frame innocent people of horrible crimes. It's members of law enforcement taking shortcuts in their jobs that end up depriving people of their rights, and all of us looking the other way because the people in question are unsavory and probably guilty anyway.

Whether anyone thinks Avery is innocent our guilty is immaterial. The real issue is the outrageous manner in which the investigation and trial were conducted.
I find this at least plausible, but it's not what I've been reading on this thread. It's plausible because it's always in play - we cannot guarantee the integrity or honesty of our fellow humans. So we always want to guard, as best we are able, against such stuff.

If all we are talking about is doubt and questions, then I'm all in. The organized conspiracy stuff doesn't add anything.

For example...
Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
7 innocent, 3 guilty, 2 undecided was the first vote....and then the planted jurors went to work.
"...and then the planted jurors went to work."

Last edited by marplots; 19th March 2017 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 19th March 2017, 07:45 PM   #3496
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I find this at least plausible, but it's not what I've been reading on this thread. It's plausible because it's always in play - we cannot guarantee the integrity or honesty of our fellow humans. So we always want to guard, as best we are able, against such stuff.

If all we are talking about is doubt and questions, then I'm all in. The organized conspiracy stuff doesn't add anything.

For example...


"...and then the planted jurors went to work."
Is it possible to vote innocent and believe he bled in the rav4?
This is modal logic.
If p then q

or

If not p then not q
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Old 19th March 2017, 10:58 PM   #3497
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
<snip>

If all we are talking about is doubt and questions, then I'm all in. The organized conspiracy stuff doesn't add anything.

<snip>

A couple of redneck sheriff's deputies saying to each other; "Ya know, we could probably take down that dirtbag Avery with this. All we gotta do is salt the scene a little.", isn't much of an organized conspiracy.

It fits, sorta, technically, but it isn't the kind of thing you seem to be envisioning.
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Old 19th March 2017, 11:21 PM   #3498
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
A couple of redneck sheriff's deputies saying to each other; "Ya know, we could probably take down that dirtbag Avery with this. All we gotta do is salt the scene a little.", isn't much of an organized conspiracy.

It fits, sorta, technically, but it isn't the kind of thing you seem to be envisioning.
It pivots on that "salt the scene a little" part. Will it be used to explain all the evidence?

For example, "salting the scene" implies there was a scene. Yet, if Avery is innocent, we have everything on his property to explain - "salted" doesn't cut it. Maybe you can plant a key on impulse, but not a RAV4.

I quoted this earlier, I think it reveals the level to which the conspiracy thinking can go: "...and then the planted jurors went to work."

Last edited by marplots; 19th March 2017 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 19th March 2017, 11:36 PM   #3499
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
It pivots on that "salt the scene a little" part. Will it be used to explain all the evidence?

For example, "salting the scene" implies there was a scene. Yet, if Avery is innocent, we have everything on his property to explain - "salted" doesn't cut it. Maybe you can plant a key on impulse, but not a RAV4.

<snip>
I don't know why not. All they had to do was drive it there and leave it.

And that wasn't even done very well. Almost like someone wanted it to be found.

We know there was something hinky about the car. You know, the one whose plates they called in before they knew Halbach had been murdered? And then couldn't find until it turned up in the junkyard.
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Old 19th March 2017, 11:46 PM   #3500
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I don't know why not. All they had to do was drive it there and leave it.

And that wasn't even done very well. Almost like someone wanted it to be found.

We know there was something hinky about the car. You know, the one whose plates they called in before they knew Halbach had been murdered? And then couldn't find until it turned up in the junkyard.
That's a step too far for me. You don't put the vehicle there unless you already know she's dead and you already know Avery didn't do it. Because in the one case (you don't know she's dead) putting the vehicle there makes no sense (she could show up), and in the other (Avery is innocent) you risk ruining the case against a guilty Avery by putting it there. (Someone may have seen Avery dump the car where you got it.)

It starts to drift off into conspiracy woo in my opinion. Impulse and spur of the moment are one thing. Careful planning (and possibly a murder) quite another.
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:13 AM   #3501
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I am trying to figure whether this means American police routinely kill people.
Of course it does. The question is whether this is out of malice or not.

He's trying to say that it would be easier to kill Steven Avery than to frame him for a murder he didn't commit. I'm inclined to agree, a lot about it being a setup by the police relies on dumb luck, like the cut on Stevens' finger. Would officers risk being found out by something like this?

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Old 20th March 2017, 12:18 AM   #3502
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Bound to the notion of "framing someone" is an actual dead girl. That's a level of loyalty I find hard to fathom. Ten years later and no whistle blower either.

This isn't East Germany we are talking about. People are free to move, send anonymous letters - a bunch of things.

No matter how tainted you think county government may be, conspiracy is a tough narrative to pull off convincingly. Tougher still to maintain. One person turning state's witness for immunity. Just one.
The defense claimed it could all be done by two people with relative ease and it could be done by one if he did a lot of hard legwork. Keeping the conspiracy a secret is assumed possible if the number of people involved is smaller than three.

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Old 20th March 2017, 12:26 AM   #3503
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
That's a step too far for me. You don't put the vehicle there unless you already know she's dead and you already know Avery didn't do it. Because in the one case (you don't know she's dead) putting the vehicle there makes no sense (she could show up), and in the other (Avery is innocent) you risk ruining the case against a guilty Avery by putting it there. (Someone may have seen Avery dump the car where you got it.)

It starts to drift off into conspiracy woo in my opinion. Impulse and spur of the moment are one thing. Careful planning (and possibly a murder) quite another.
The conspiracy would have to say that the deputy (?) found the car with the body of Theresa Haselbach and decided to move it in a way that would implicate Steven Avery as the culprit. This obviously implies the conspiracy involved at least two people, that deputy and officer Lenk, who planted the evidence. This is on the edge of what is still possible to pull off.

There are many problems with that hypothesis, but not to the point where it would become impossible. The most glaring ones are all that it doesn't make sense to do so in retrospect (there are several issues), and the only way to explain it away is: The officers involved didn't consider that aspect. It could've been impulse and spur of the moment thing for the officers as well, after all.

It's not the most believable hypothesis as a result.

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Old 20th March 2017, 03:10 AM   #3504
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Of course it does. The question is whether this is out of malice or not.

He's trying to say that it would be easier to kill Steven Avery than to frame him for a murder he didn't commit. I'm inclined to agree, a lot about it being a setup by the police relies on dumb luck, like the cut on Stevens' finger. Would officers risk being found out by something like this?

McHrozni
Of course they routinely kill people in the path of duty. They do so in New Zealand, about one or two a year.
What Peterson said was in a sense accidental. Hypothetical. I doubt he has bodies buried like Mafia, but the bravado in his statement says be very scared of police in Manitowoc. Do not try to win a petty battle like Avery did. Or something like that.
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Old 20th March 2017, 03:19 AM   #3505
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Was the death of Teresa, after the last person to see her alive could also happen to be about to bankrupt the county, purely coincidental?

Mike Halbach became embedded quickly, right to the death.

"Will he walk this time?" he asked to camera. "I don't think so".
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Old 21st March 2017, 01:27 PM   #3506
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Of course they routinely kill people in the path of duty. They do so in New Zealand, about one or two a year.
What Peterson said was in a sense accidental. Hypothetical. I doubt he has bodies buried like Mafia, but the bravado in his statement says be very scared of police in Manitowoc. Do not try to win a petty battle like Avery did. Or something like that.
or you do so at your own peril...
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Old 26th March 2017, 04:02 PM   #3507
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interesting the MaM, with closed caption, Barb is yelling at the news media hounds after BD's conviction. shes yelling.."you want me to sya something,? I think the Halbachs set this whole **** up, i really do"

also BD has the dream of the black cloaked person in his dream and it was TH, who tells him shes alive and it was all a joke.

not a lot of theorys on TH being alive. is there much TH blood anywhere? has the DNA been proven TH DNA from the bones?

the bullet wasnt deemed blood, it was only TH DNA.....

just imagine what a twist that would be.?
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Old 26th March 2017, 07:37 PM   #3508
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
interesting the MaM, with closed caption, Barb is yelling at the news media hounds after BD's conviction. shes yelling.."you want me to sya something,? I think the Halbachs set this whole **** up, i really do"

also BD has the dream of the black cloaked person in his dream and it was TH, who tells him shes alive and it was all a joke.

not a lot of theorys on TH being alive. is there much TH blood anywhere? has the DNA been proven TH DNA from the bones?

the bullet wasnt deemed blood, it was only TH DNA.....

just imagine what a twist that would be.?
Shaun Attwood writes

"Mike Halbach in good faith believing Steven had killed his sister, had gone through Teresa’s room at some point early on and found her spare key. He gave it to Colborn, who gave it to Lenk. Now Mike was totally committed. He was the only non-law enforcement wildcard, knowing eventually that the key was planted."

Yes, one of the Halbachs helped put Brendan in jail alright.
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Old 28th March 2017, 07:12 PM   #3509
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for some reason it seems very believable due to the severe bias he had and RH weirdness.
but this case is full of weirdness. i was 110% convinced ST and Bobby had the guilt weirdness.

the massive amount of lab testing will hopefully normalize some of this case.
the cell towers might support Zellners theory which might be why she fingered RH and the QuarryDude.

reddits post on DNA seems to be the wheels really starting to turn... will it be a bunch of garbage dna data again like the Italy/Knox case? a vicious murder with no blood dna of the accused or in this case not even the victim?
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Old 29th March 2017, 03:02 AM   #3510
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
for some reason it seems very believable due to the severe bias he had and RH weirdness.
but this case is full of weirdness. i was 110% convinced ST and Bobby had the guilt weirdness.

the massive amount of lab testing will hopefully normalize some of this case.
the cell towers might support Zellners theory which might be why she fingered RH and the QuarryDude.

reddits post on DNA seems to be the wheels really starting to turn... will it be a bunch of garbage dna data again like the Italy/Knox case? a vicious murder with no blood dna of the accused or in this case not even the victim?
Whichever way you see the case the immutable data point is the two bullets drilled down from left rear and at different angles to her skull/brain.
That is evidence that will not change.
What is this?

I see an execution.

What else do threaders see? I am totally interested and open minded now.
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Old 29th March 2017, 05:18 PM   #3511
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a skeleton from anywhere could be the bones, wheres the evidence? wheres the body?
i also read the melted cellphone wasnt even the right one TH used?
I mean something really strange is going on and some time was spent destroying evidence while other was being planted?

clip> old post
I'm a funeral director and licensed crematory operator. I've seen a lot of burnt bones. Granted, I don't know how hot or how long the remains found in the pit were burned; but based on their appearance, they were disintegrated to the same point that cremains are when I pull them from the retort. In order for that to happen, she would've burned at 1800F for about 4 hours (estimating her size from her pictures and video clip). If she did burn that hot, there would've been no DNA evidence from the cremains. That shin bone couldn't have been in the burn pit. Even if the fire didn't burn that hot, I don't see how that one fragment survived and none of the others did.>end clip>
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:07 AM   #3512
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
a skeleton from anywhere could be the bones, wheres the evidence? wheres the body?
i also read the melted cellphone wasnt even the right one TH used?
I mean something really strange is going on and some time was spent destroying evidence while other was being planted?

clip> old post
I'm a funeral director and licensed crematory operator. I've seen a lot of burnt bones. Granted, I don't know how hot or how long the remains found in the pit were burned; but based on their appearance, they were disintegrated to the same point that cremains are when I pull them from the retort. In order for that to happen, she would've burned at 1800F for about 4 hours (estimating her size from her pictures and video clip). If she did burn that hot, there would've been no DNA evidence from the cremains. That shin bone couldn't have been in the burn pit. Even if the fire didn't burn that hot, I don't see how that one fragment survived and none of the others did.>end clip>
Pit fires aren't even, some parts would be hotter than others. The fragment was in an area that was cooler than the rest.

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Old 30th March 2017, 03:11 AM   #3513
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Pit fires aren't even, some parts would be hotter than others. The fragment was in an area that was cooler than the rest.

McHrozni
McHrozni:

You and the Manitowoc police may be the only people left (seeming to ) suggest Steven Avery burned Teresa Halbach in his fire pit.

Jerry Buting's book is about $20, and he was engaged intensively in investigating the crime for which he was defending Avery, and discovered the broken blood vial that could explain the blood in the Rav, consistent with his client not bleeding within it.
At this point he could reinterpret the accusations.
I am mystified by your (devil's?) advocacy.
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Old 30th March 2017, 08:52 PM   #3514
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Shaun Attwood writes

"Mike Halbach in good faith believing Steven had killed his sister, had gone through Teresa’s room at some point early on and found her spare key. He gave it to Colborn, who gave it to Lenk. Now Mike was totally committed. He was the only non-law enforcement wildcard, knowing eventually that the key was planted."

Yes, one of the Halbachs helped put Brendan in jail alright.
And what's Shaun Attwood's source for this claim?
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Old 30th March 2017, 09:33 PM   #3515
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
And what's Shaun Attwood's source for this claim?
It was a reconstruction. It makes sense when studying Halbach's demeanour thoroughout but proof is probably out of reach.
Someone gave the valet key to Lenk, someone who could procure it. Are there other candidates?
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Old 3rd April 2017, 04:05 AM   #3516
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You and the Manitowoc police may be the only people left (seeming to ) suggest Steven Avery burned Teresa Halbach in his fire pit.
Her charred bones were found in it. Proving she wasn't burned in it would require some extraordinary evidence.

Quote:
Jerry Buting's book is about $20, and he was engaged intensively in investigating the crime for which he was defending Avery, and discovered the broken blood vial that could explain the blood in the Rav, consistent with his client not bleeding within it.
At this point he could reinterpret the accusations.
Where was the blood vial found, what kind of a vial it was (color of cap will do), etc?

Quote:
I am mystified by your (devil's?) advocacy.
I find it entertaining. Would the thread be interesting if we were all saying about how innocent Steven Avery is?

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Old 3rd April 2017, 04:56 AM   #3517
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It was a reconstruction. It makes sense when studying Halbach's demeanour thoroughout but proof is probably out of reach.
Someone gave the valet key to Lenk, someone who could procure it. Are there other candidates?
Yeah. Steven Avery.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 04:59 AM   #3518
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Her charred bones were found in it. Proving she wasn't burned in it would require some extraordinary evidence.



Where was the blood vial found, what kind of a vial it was (color of cap will do), etc?



I find it entertaining. Would the thread be interesting if we were all saying about how innocent Steven Avery is?

McHrozni
Yes. He is so obviously innocent.
Planted evidence, Jerry Buting defends then writes a book, Kathleen Zellner states the facts and declares innocence.

You are polishing a turd, if only Charlie Wilkes would return to clarify.
I begin to see why people desert this forum,.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 07:31 AM   #3519
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It occurred to me there was someone else at the crime scene who was carrying around Steven Avery's blood.

Steven Avery.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 08:36 AM   #3520
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Dassey's statement in the context of police behavior

Did the police who questioned Brendan Dassey realize that he could go away for life? Did they realize that they were putting words into his mouth? Did they know about Mr. Dassey's mental limitations? The answer to the first question is obviously "yes," and my answer to the second and third questions is "probably." If the police are willing to do that, then upon what basis can we exclude the possibility of framing* Mr. Avery? I can't.
*EDT
I mean that the police might have framed Mr. Avery. Hope that helps.
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Last edited by Chris_Halkides; 3rd April 2017 at 10:31 AM. Reason: typo
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