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Tags film , bigfoot , patterson gimlin

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Old 28th August 2007, 01:34 PM   #7321
Luminous
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Hmmm. That's interesting. I'll have to look into that more.

Why is the National Geographic logo melting LTC? Are you altering these stills in any way?
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Old 28th August 2007, 01:38 PM   #7322
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Possibly a big root?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 28th August 2007, 01:40 PM   #7323
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Nothing has been cut out, only cropped. There are three, possibly four scene's in this film, what happened at those point's is anyone's guess.


m

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Old 28th August 2007, 01:41 PM   #7324
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Quote:
Why is the National Geographic logo melting LTC?
You'll have to ask MK. He made the animation and the logo does that in the animation.

I am using Quicktime to capture the stills from the animated gif, btw.
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Old 28th August 2007, 01:42 PM   #7325
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Quote:
Nothing has been cut out, only cropped. There are three, possibly four scene's in this film, what happened at those point's is anyone's guess.
Which is why we need to see the original film...

He said again...
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Old 28th August 2007, 01:53 PM   #7326
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Originally Posted by mangler View Post
This is one of those posts when I have question why I even bother.
So Luminous, you'll do the right thing and withdraw your ridiculous pareidolia thumb claim here, at MABRC, and any other place you made it and cite when and where that your claim was shown to be false? And maybe even give some thought to problems with your observational skills?

Really, this resembles a footprint more than a piece of dead wood? What's the deal?
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:00 PM   #7327
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The NG logo "melts" in his own examples!
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:01 PM   #7328
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I would be more concerned with film speed and how much film is truly missing, if any.


16mm - 40 frames per foot max, 100 feet of film. Here is the time run down.

At 24 fps it's 2 min. 47 sec, at 18 fps it's 3 min. 42 sec. and at 16 fps it's 4 min. 10 sec.

This is the kind of stuff that interests me.


m
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:04 PM   #7329
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So Luminous, you must now realize that your "opening shot" is seriously cropped and the actual shot is actually much wider. In fact, the whole original film must actually be much wider than we realize, with Patty very small in the frame.

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Old 28th August 2007, 02:05 PM   #7330
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
So Roger filmed that "track" well after he fimed Patty strolling by then?

Was this before or after the 3.5 mile jaunt after Patty?

Where are these still camera shots? Who wouldn't take a few good shots with a much better camera they had with them?

C'mon, you've been reading this thread for quite a while now. The possible track has been attributed to another possible Sasquatch in the area. If that's the case, Patty need not be involved.
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:09 PM   #7331
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You can see how seriously cropped and enlarged this copy is. This is basically the same shot as below, except it's blurry. You can see Patty and the same trees.

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Old 28th August 2007, 02:11 PM   #7332
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Quote:
The possible track has been attributed to another possible Sasquatch in the area.
P and G had already been riding in the area that morning. No mention of fairly new tracks as far as I know.
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:13 PM   #7333
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
So Luminous, you'll do the right thing and withdraw your ridiculous pareidolia thumb claim here, at MABRC, and any other place you made it and cite when and where that your claim was shown to be false? And maybe even give some thought to problems with your observational skills?

Really, this resembles a footprint more than a piece of dead wood? What's the deal?
I might, if I find that this is truly the case. I'm not sure I'm watching the same version as Manger and others here. I wouldn't call it ridiculous. This was M.K.'s assertion, not mine. I only corroborated what He apparently found. It sure looks like a thumb to me. But I'll research this again in the light of what was shown. If it's in error, I'll correct it.
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:15 PM   #7334
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...48e98d7da7.jpg

You can see how seriously cropped and enlarged this copy is. This is basically the same shot as below, except it's blurry. You can see Patty and the same trees.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4882094a8c.jpg
Where are you getting the footage that you're using? How can I view it?
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:22 PM   #7335
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Where are you getting the footage that you're using?
I got the still from Mangler. Don't know where he got it. I just know that most of what we are shown is seriously altered via cropping and enlarging to make Patty look larger in the frame. You can tell because occasionally you see a full frame still and then you realize just how far away Roger really was and just how small Patty actually was in the frame.

Imagine what might be visible in the actual uncropped film...

So far, that's all we can do.
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:31 PM   #7336
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Going by the size of Patty in the frame, the NG clip doesn't look full frame to me.
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Old 28th August 2007, 02:35 PM   #7337
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Quote:
I wouldn't call it ridiculous. This was M.K.'s assertion, not mine. I only corroborated what He apparently found.
MK clearly states that it is a tree limb, not a thumb, Luminous.

Quote:
A large limb passes in front of the camera and then off to the side.
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Old 28th August 2007, 05:12 PM   #7338
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I believe every clip out there has been cropped (except the master and possibly the master copy's), there may be one available that hasn't and I'm trying to track that one down now, but I'm not even sure it hasn't been cropped. To the best of my knowledge this picture of frame 352 is the only full frame out there.






Different aspect ratios are used for different media, theater, television, digital etc. I see no conspiracy theory.


Unfortunately with the different scene's we can't know for certain if the camera was simply turned off and on or if the film was spliced. Then take into consideration the cropping, it's very difficult to accurately track the chronology of events, IMO. But hey that's never stopped anyone before.


BTW Lum according to Caddy the first five frames were spliced in, "Caddy points out the first 5 frames as seen on the Legend Meets Science DVD were not shot at Bluff Creek."
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/rev...llingham05.htm







In one copy that I have there is the entire 108 frames of that particular clip. I'm not sure how Caddy knows for certain where those frames were taken. Must have something to do with the Green, Noll, Caddy conspiracy.


In regards to this area of the film I would be more concerned with why the first frame is so over-exposed, not only that but IMO the first 190 frames are more over-exposed than the rest of the film.


m


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Old 28th August 2007, 05:50 PM   #7339
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Roger had a small camera that had to be wound up to film. Lets say it was fully wound when he came across Patty, does anyone know how long the camera would film before having to rewind it?
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Old 28th August 2007, 06:11 PM   #7340
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Patterson's thumb?

Did I really just read that?

Yet more effluvium from the fertile imagination of MK Davis.

Did Davis engage in a Vulcan mind-meld with Beckjord, and fail to break the connection?

This is so nuts it's simply beyond the pale.

Anyone with more than two functioning neurons can see the feature is obviously a Satyr's wang...
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Old 28th August 2007, 07:03 PM   #7341
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Originally Posted by Geno View Post
Roger had a small camera that had to be wound up to film. Lets say it was fully wound when he came across Patty, does anyone know how long the camera would film before having to rewind it?
According to Kodak's ads, a K100 (the model Patterson rented) could pull 40 feet on a winding.
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Old 28th August 2007, 08:01 PM   #7342
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A bit more on the camera.

The general consensus is that the camera was a Cine K-100, thou I'm not sure whether it was a single lens or turret model, the arrest warrant states "Cine Kodak 100 Lens #RE 2796 camera" Long pg.168 (a little help with the fact's anyone).

I believe the Cine K-100's hit the market in 57' the three lens turret sold for $315, single lens $279, it was and still is a very good 16mm camera. It has a pre-stressed motor that pulls (as bruto states) 40 feet, and there seems to have been ample opportunities for a rewind. Regardless of fps it would still pull almost half the film in a single wind.


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Old 28th August 2007, 10:58 PM   #7343
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Would that 40 feet become less as the spring aged?

Would you normally leave the camera wound up?
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Old 29th August 2007, 08:42 AM   #7344
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
MK clearly states that it is a tree limb, not a thumb, Luminous.
The U-Tube graphic said it was his thumb. Where did you get the tree limb quote?
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Old 29th August 2007, 08:49 AM   #7345
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Originally Posted by mangler View Post
Nothing has been cut out, only cropped. There are three, possibly four scene's in this film, what happened at those point's is anyone's guess.


m

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4882094a8c.jpg
Mangler,

What did you use to piece together the full frame in that opening shot. And you're right, the opening is overexposed on the LMS. Any theories on why this is?
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Old 29th August 2007, 09:30 AM   #7346
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I cannot find anywhere where Davis says it's anything but a limb.

You need to provide the quote where Davis says it's a thumb, since that is what you claim.
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Old 29th August 2007, 09:35 AM   #7347
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It's even in the you tube clip. limb.

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Old 29th August 2007, 10:35 AM   #7348
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I cannot find anywhere where Davis says it's anything but a limb.

You need to provide the quote where Davis says it's a thumb, since that is what you claim.


If Loomy is claiming we are seeing Patterson's thumb, where is Patterson supposed to be and who is holding the camera?


If Patterson is holding the camera, his thumb ( anywhere within a foot or so ) would have pretty much covered the lens ..
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Old 29th August 2007, 11:19 AM   #7349
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Alright already. I'm not sure where I got the idea that it was Patterson's thumb. I thought it was in the text on the U-tube version. I guess not. I must have jumped to conclusions, not that any of you have done that. Or am I the only fallible person on this board? Sheeze...
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Old 29th August 2007, 11:56 AM   #7350
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Then you have to wonder why Davis said the info had been cropped out of the film...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 29th August 2007, 02:14 PM   #7351
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That's an excellent point LTC8K6 and something I have also questioned. Since Davis had access to Nolls work, and Noll had the Green copy I had always assumed that Davis was working with a full frame copy. I kind of thought that Hajicek probably enlarged and cropped the copy for LMS. Now, I'm not so sure of this because on more than one occasion Davis make statements to the effect of this "The first generated copies of the film are “cropped” versions of the film." If the original copies are in fact cropped . . . I'm not sure how this effects my train of thought.

Lum, let me get back to you on the overexposure, I'm presently talking to some 16mm film/camera people. At present the general consensus seems to be camera turning off and on/or splice. That frame is kind of perplexing because in theory there should be a bit of bleed over from one scene to the other. Don't quote me on any of this yet because I'm personally uncertain of how the shutter on this camera reacts when the camera is shutdown. As stated by LTC8K6 the spring drive may be affected by age but I'm not certain how or if it would effect the shutter upon shutdown.


m
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Old 29th August 2007, 02:33 PM   #7352
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I never could get Noll to confirm whether Greens copy was zoomed and cropped. He did hint that the aspect ratio was skewed horizontally .. ( Makes Patty look more massive )

It also seems Green's copy is only the the ~25 feet of Patty footage.
Beckjord confirmed to me in an e-mail that his copy is the ~25 feet also .

I gotta' believe the rest of that film tells us more about when it was taken, and if the Patty footage is indeed the end of the reel..
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Old 29th August 2007, 11:32 PM   #7353
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Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
The film lines up with the claim. Stills show possible boot prints, Roger's thumb and one definite boot print.

Check out the gifs I made here: http://www.mid-americabigfoot.com/ph...=1975&start=30 At the bottom of the page...
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
His thumb is in a shot right after the footprint. Check out my link and you'll see for yourself. It's there.
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
I'm not sure why his thumb ended up in the shot. Maybe that's why that little piece of film was cropped out of one copy in the first place. Maybe Roger later thought it was not professional looking. Or maybe someone else is the culprit. All I know is that a whole piece of film was cut out of one of the copies. Why? It's anyone's guess.
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Thought the same thing until I saw it for myself. It's there. No doubt about it. How and why are the questions.
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
I might, if I find that this is truly the case. I'm not sure I'm watching the same version as Manger and others here. I wouldn't call it ridiculous. This was M.K.'s assertion, not mine. I only corroborated what He apparently found. It sure looks like a thumb to me. But I'll research this again in the light of what was shown. If it's in error, I'll correct it.
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
The U-Tube graphic said it was his thumb. Where did you get the tree limb quote?
Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Alright already. I'm not sure where I got the idea that it was Patterson's thumb. I thought it was in the text on the U-tube version. I guess not. I must have jumped to conclusions, not that any of you have done that. Or am I the only fallible person on this board? Sheeze...
Hey man, WTF? That's pretty slick. It's so typical of the mental fortitude of you footie 'researchers'. You made the most utterly boffo claim based on nothing but your over-active imagination, your pareidolia run amok. You then had your silly claim deflated. Deflated by people that don't play the goofy bigfoot game.

Here is where you first (as far as I know) claimed the thumb wackiness. Did you post again to admit your dubious claim? Did you explain how, where, and by whom you were shown to be wrong? No, you pulled a total weasel. You quietly had the graphic you made and your boffo claim removed from that post. No admission, explanation, or anything. You just yoinked it and hoped none of your believer buddies would notice. Can you even do that yourself or did you get LAL to help you? It's so typical of you footers to do that crap. You get all worked up in pareidolia play and call it research. Is it really such a big deal to face up to having been really wrong? Heaven forbid that you admit you were corrected by dirty skeptics who knew more than you did about your Holy Grail. So predictable.
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Old 30th August 2007, 07:14 AM   #7354
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Hey man, WTF? That's pretty slick. It's so typical of the mental fortitude of you footie 'researchers'. You made the most utterly boffo claim based on nothing but your over-active imagination, your pareidolia run amok. You then had your silly claim deflated. Deflated by people that don't play the goofy bigfoot game.

Here is where you first (as far as I know) claimed the thumb wackiness. Did you post again to admit your dubious claim? Did you explain how, where, and by whom you were shown to be wrong? No, you pulled a total weasel. You quietly had the graphic you made and your boffo claim removed from that post. No admission, explanation, or anything. You just yoinked it and hoped none of your believer buddies would notice. Can you even do that yourself or did you get LAL to help you? It's so typical of you footers to do that crap. You get all worked up in pareidolia play and call it research. Is it really such a big deal to face up to having been really wrong? Heaven forbid that you admit you were corrected by dirty skeptics who knew more than you did about your Holy Grail. So predictable.
Say what you want, but I didn't "Pull" anything. You're reading malicious or nefarious intent into this and it's not there. I seem to recall reading somewhere about the thumb being in the shot. I'm not sure where I first saw that. I thought in was in the text of the U-tube version, but obviously it's not there. I'm still searching for it. You don't have to tear my head off over this. You're acting pompous and judgmental and you ought not be acting that way. It's not as though you have never gotten your information screwed up. Your hostility is unwelcome and unhelpful here. You're laying it on awful thick.
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Old 30th August 2007, 07:51 AM   #7355
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Say what you want, but I didn't "Pull" anything. You're reading malicious or nefarious intent into this and it's not there. I seem to recall reading somewhere about the thumb being in the shot. I'm not sure where I first saw that. I thought in was in the text of the U-tube version, but obviously it's not there. I'm still searching for it. You don't have to tear my head off over this. You're acting pompous and judgmental and you ought not be acting that way. It's not as though you have never gotten your information screwed up. Your hostility is unwelcome and unhelpful here. You're laying it on awful thick.
Laying it on thick? Nice try. Dude, it's as simple as this:

"Whoa, what a stinker! Man, did I pull a rabbit out of my butt. Yeah, that thing I told you was Patterson's thumb... heh heh... turns out it's kinda a tree. This guy mangler at the JREF pointed it out for me. Man do I feel silly. Disregard the whole thumb thing. My bad."

Yeah, that's a start. What you realy should do is have a little think about the other rabbits you're pulling out. Instead what you do is get your stinker removed without explanation. What you're doing is Sweaty-style shuckin' n' jivin'. You make these really boffo claims and don't take responsibility for them. You are a bigfoot BS perpetuator. 'Yeah, I, I, I read it somewhere. I'm just the messenger.'

Dude, your words (bolding mine):

Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Thought the same thing until I saw it for myself. It's there. No doubt about it. How and why are the questions.
It's there, no doubt about it? Your observation is skewed, man. It's messed, faulty, out of order. You call pareidolia play 'research'. You see a piece of dead wood and call it the mysterious footprint of another bigfoot. Dude, it's a piece of dead wood. Snap out of the fantasy.
Quote:
It's not as though you have never gotten your information screwed up.
We've all gotten our information screwed up. When we do there's not one of us here that doesn't say 'man, I messed up'. This isn't 'oops, bad source' it's your screwy observations and the poorly thought, hastey claims. Think about it. I'm not trying to tear your head off, I'm trying to get you to put it back on.
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Old 30th August 2007, 09:15 AM   #7356
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Laying it on thick? Nice try. Dude, it's as simple as this:

"Whoa, what a stinker! Man, did I pull a rabbit out of my butt. Yeah, that thing I told you was Patterson's thumb... heh heh... turns out it's kinda a tree. This guy mangler at the JREF pointed it out for me. Man do I feel silly. Disregard the whole thumb thing. My bad."

Yeah, that's a start. What you realy should do is have a little think about the other rabbits you're pulling out. Instead what you do is get your stinker removed without explanation. What you're doing is Sweaty-style shuckin' n' jivin'. You make these really boffo claims and don't take responsibility for them. You are a bigfoot BS perpetuator. 'Yeah, I, I, I read it somewhere. I'm just the messenger.'

Dude, your words (bolding mine):

It's there, no doubt about it? Your observation is skewed, man. It's messed, faulty, out of order. You call pareidolia play 'research'. You see a piece of dead wood and call it the mysterious footprint of another bigfoot. Dude, it's a piece of dead wood. Snap out of the fantasy.We've all gotten our information screwed up. When we do there's not one of us here that doesn't say 'man, I messed up'. This isn't 'oops, bad source' it's your screwy observations and the poorly thought, hastey claims. Think about it. I'm not trying to tear your head off, I'm trying to get you to put it back on.

Okay Kit, you tell me what I should be saying. It's obvious you believe that you know how I should handle this.
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Old 30th August 2007, 09:30 AM   #7357
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Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
Okay Kit, you tell me what I should be saying. It's obvious you believe that you know how I should handle this.
Nice side step. How do you think you should handle it? You're calling trees thumbs and sticks bigfoot prints and not taking responsibility when your claim gets pantsed. That's pretty lame. Why don't you tell your footer buddies your thumb claim was out to lunch?

ETA: Hey, look! Dead wood.
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Last edited by kitakaze; 30th August 2007 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 30th August 2007, 12:09 PM   #7358
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Even if someone claimed it was a thumb, and you could show that it is a thumb, WTF does that have to do with whether or not the subject in the film is a Bigfoot ?
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Old 30th August 2007, 02:02 PM   #7359
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Nice side step. How do you think you should handle it? You're calling trees thumbs and sticks bigfoot prints and not taking responsibility when your claim gets pantsed. That's pretty lame. Why don't you tell your footer buddies your thumb claim was out to lunch?

ETA: Hey, look! Dead wood.
Side step? What are you talking about? I have nothing to hide. I obviously read into something and somehow got the impression we were looking at his thumb. If you look at the still from the U-Tube footage, it looks very much like his thumb. I didn't put the info out of a hat! Someone said it, or I read it somewhere and I ran with it.

You expect me to say I made it up? Well, I can't, cause I didn't. I have no problems sharing this blunder either. You're hypocritical standing over me in judgment like that. You're not my judge or my jury. No crime was committed here. Just a mistake or a misunderstanding.

At least I have the guts to admit when I've been wrong. Do you? The way you're accusing me over this is wrong. It would be nice if you'd admit that you're attitude wreaks of self-righteousness.

By the way, this does not mean I'm changing my view of the possible print that is shown in this clip.
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Old 30th August 2007, 02:15 PM   #7360
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Even if someone claimed it was a thumb, and you could show that it is a thumb, WTF does that have to do with whether or not the subject in the film is a Bigfoot ?
Nothing. Nothing at all, of course. However, when reliable evidence continues to be so non-existent pareidolia frolick under the imaginative title of 'research' is wicked fun, I guess.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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