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Old 22nd September 2022, 04:27 AM   #201
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Warp, your ex and failed President suggests there will be violence if your law enforcement bodies find enough evidence and indict him. Your party leader. The embodiment of the right in the USA. He even encouraged the violence on Jan. 6th. There really is a difference in scale to this than you are willing to admit to because it certainly makes one side look far worse, and that is the right.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 04:30 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't know if all of this is true.

For example, in the aftermath of the Floyd killing, there was a portion of the left actively supporting rioting and destructive protest. And if not directly supporting the violence and destruction, they were certainly sympathetic and in many cases, apathetic about it. This includes politicians/government at various levels.

Some may say, "that wasn't political!". I disagree. If one political ideology is supporting violent and destructive unrest, that in itself makes it a matter of politics.
Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Warp, your ex and failed President suggests there will be violence if your law enforcement bodies find enough evidence and indict him. Your party leader. The embodiment of the right in the USA. He even encouraged the violence on Jan. 6th. There really is a difference in scale to this than you are willing to admit to because it certainly makes one side look far worse, and that is the right.

So, your response to examples of leftist committed/supported violence is, "Whatabout Trump?". Not surprising.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 05:24 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
This seems to be a complete non sequitur to my post as well as perhaps a strawman since I’ve not posted to my recollection anything about a group called “Praxis”.
Please see the link at #177 for the PraxiStudio sticker which encouraged the violent behaviour at Burlington Pride.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 05:31 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Please see the link at #177 for the PraxiStudio sticker which encouraged the violent behaviour at Burlington Pride.
I asked for evidence that the attack was from "the left" - (presumably USA "left"). Your responses seem to have nothing to do with evidence that the attack was from the left.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 05:58 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

Answer. ZERO
Wrong. Read the link.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 06:58 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I asked for evidence that the attack was from "the left"
I provided evidence that the people encouraging such attacks (PraxiStudios) are self-identified leftists. I also provided a link which shows that PraxiStudios' encouragement to violently suppress anti-trans protesters was being distributed on site at Burlington Pride. Now that some people have acted to violently suppress an anti-trans protester, we can make some reasonable inferences as to their motivations.

ETA: We can also make some inferences from the people who are defending the assault, like this guy:

https://twitter.com/RadheSh47372605/...07289180368896
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Old 22nd September 2022, 07:20 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It can reasonably considered as encouraging/supporting violence. That can't be separated from the physical violence when assessing the level of violence in a particular group...
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It most certainly can. Violence is a physical action, violent rhetoric is a description. Rhetoric can encourage and support violence, but it's not violence itself, especially when it's as vague as what that cartoon said.
True. I should have said shouldn't.

I agree about the "cartoon". I'm making a larger point.

There will always be a baseline of inconsequential zealots and/or mentally disturbed people on the fringes. That's why the inconsequential anecdotes posted to this thread are so asinine (among other reasons). If lefties were violently unhinged at a level above the fringe baseline, one way to gague that is the behavior of national leaders and the population at large.

Are Dem national leaders brazenly encouraging violence? No.
Are Dem national leaders supporting domestic terrorists? No.
Are voters supporting Dem leaders who brazenly encourage violence? No.
Are Dem candidates for major offices in 2022 encouraging violence? No.
Is there stastically significant domestic terrorism emenating from the left? No.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 11:31 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Please see the link at #177 for the PraxiStudio sticker which encouraged the violent behaviour at Burlington Pride.
A sticker? A sticker?? Is that the most violent and inciteful thing you can find?
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Old 22nd September 2022, 11:55 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, your response to examples of leftist committed/supported violence is, "Whatabout Trump?". Not surprising.

The basic premise of the thread is “Whatabout Leftists”.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 12:04 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, your response to examples of leftist committed/supported violence is, "Whatabout Trump?". Not surprising.
You have not yet demonstrated that they were indeed Leftist. In fact neither you, nor your fellow interlocutors have demonstrated that you even know what the term Leftist even means.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 03:17 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I provided evidence that the people encouraging such attacks (PraxiStudios) are self-identified leftists. I also provided a link which shows that PraxiStudios' encouragement to violently suppress anti-trans protesters was being distributed on site at Burlington Pride. Now that some people have acted to violently suppress an anti-trans protester, we can make some reasonable inferences as to their motivations.

ETA: We can also make some inferences from the people who are defending the assault, like this guy:

https://twitter.com/RadheSh47372605/...07289180368896
You did not provide evidence for the claim made.

Have you any evidence?
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Old 23rd September 2022, 06:02 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
A 74-year-old gay rights pioneer was assaulted and robbed by a mob during a pride parade in Vermont.

Not by MAGArs, this was rainbow on rainbow violence.
He was an old cis white gay male, they're ideologically expendable now and just below TERFs on the scale of knuckle dragging dinosaurs who aren't with the current thought. Everybody knows Stonewall was led by a Black transwoman and this assault is most likely the work of a group like Trans For Trump. It's impossible this attack came from the left, the left doesn't work that way.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 06:59 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
This thread illustrates how desperate the right wingers are to find some equivalence. It also shows that they don't know what political violence is.
Let's be fair. Neither of the examples cited in the OP involve politics in any way, shape, or form, other than the perps are purportedly lefties. Theprestige apparently intended a thread in the mode of a mundane police blotter. I've mentioned several times how asinine this is, but I should participate in the spirit of the thread before rendering judgement...
Man Wearing Bernie Shirt Arrested for Domestic Violence*
There, I've made a valuable contribution to our understanding of the complex dynamics of US politics!

Every example cited in this thread might as well be a poe.


* I made this up
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:01 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You did not provide evidence for the claim made.

Have you any evidence?
There were people justifying the looting as "reparations".
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:05 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
There were people justifying the looting as "reparations".
Which looting?
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:10 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which looting?
The looting of high end shops and stores in NYC and other places.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:21 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You did not provide evidence for the claim made.
The assailants have not been identified, so we have no direct evidence of their motivations. All we really know from the photos is they were carrying trans pride flags, which doesn't exactly strike me as right wing signaling.

That said, I find it curious that you completely discount the inferential value of pro-trans pro-violence messaging clearly from the left.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:27 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The looting of high end shops and stores in NYC and other places.
Are you changing the subject? That doesn't seem to be the claim being addressed.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:27 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The assailants have not been identified, so we have no direct evidence of their motivations. All we really know from the photos is they were carrying trans pride flags, which doesn't exactly strike me as right wing signaling.

That said, I find it curious that you completely discount the inferential value of pro-trans pro-violence messaging clearly from the left.
Haven't you heard? ALL the violence and arson was done by Right-Wing agents making believe they were Leftists. The Left only believes in peaceful, non-violent koombaya protests.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:29 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The looting of high end shops and stores in NYC and other places.
What on earth are you on about?
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:30 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The assailants have not been identified, so we have no direct evidence of their motivations. All we really know from the photos is they were carrying trans pride flags, which doesn't exactly strike me as right wing signaling.

That said, I find it curious that you completely discount the inferential value of pro-trans pro-violence messaging clearly from the left.
A long post to say "I have no evidence for the claim".
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:32 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What on earth are you on about?

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-or...-doubles-down/

The Chicago Black Lives Matter organizer who justified looting as “reparation” has doubled down — insisting this week that even calling someone a criminal is “based on racism.”

Ariel Atkins told WBEZ that her group “100 percent” supports the violent looters who trashed chunks of the Windy City on Monday, again repeating her claim that it is “reparations.”

“The whole idea of criminality is based on racism anyway,” she told the NPR station.



https://www.wmbriggs.com/post/32418/

Even though riots, looting, pillaging, murder and mayhem and treason are illegal, immoral, and unethical, and that putting them down through the use of violence is historically validated, legal, moral, and ethical, we all know violence is wrong. So, even though I advocated opening fire on the lawless rabble two days ago, I now see no good Christian can advocate fighting the lawless takeover of our cities. I therefore embrace looting as a means to redress in social inequities.

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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:34 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-or...-doubles-down/

The Chicago Black Lives Matter organizer who justified looting as “reparation” has doubled down — insisting this week that even calling someone a criminal is “based on racism.”

Ariel Atkins told WBEZ that her group “100 percent” supports the violent looters who trashed chunks of the Windy City on Monday, again repeating her claim that it is “reparations.”

“The whole idea of criminality is based on racism anyway,” she told the NPR station.
No idea how that is meant to relate to the claim that was made i.e. "...74-year-old gay rights pioneer Fred Sargeant, who was present at the Stonewall riots in 1969 and who co-founded the first pride march in New York City in 1970, was beaten and robbed by far-left and trans activists at the pride event in Burlington, Vermont on Sunday. Sargeant was holding a sign critical of trans ideology....."
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:35 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No idea how that is meant to relate to the claim that was made i.e. "...74-year-old gay rights pioneer Fred Sargeant, who was present at the Stonewall riots in 1969 and who co-founded the first pride march in New York City in 1970, was beaten and robbed by far-left and trans activists at the pride event in Burlington, Vermont on Sunday. Sargeant was holding a sign critical of trans ideology....."

oops

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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:37 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/blm-or...-doubles-down/

The Chicago Black Lives Matter organizer who justified looting as “reparation” has doubled down — insisting this week that even calling someone a criminal is “based on racism.”

Ariel Atkins told WBEZ that her group “100 percent” supports the violent looters who trashed chunks of the Windy City on Monday, again repeating her claim that it is “reparations.”

“The whole idea of criminality is based on racism anyway,” she told the NPR station.
Sounds like a nutjob and/or someone seeking to justify their own criminal actions.

I think if the people doing the looting are claiming reparations then they can be safely ignored.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:38 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sounds like a nutjob and/or someone seeking to justify their own criminal actions.

I think if the people doing the looting are claiming reparations then they can be safely ignored.



https://www.wmbriggs.com/post/32418/

Even though riots, looting, pillaging, murder and mayhem and treason are illegal, immoral, and unethical, and that putting them down through the use of violence is historically validated, legal, moral, and ethical, we all know violence is wrong. So, even though I advocated opening fire on the lawless rabble two days ago, I now see no good Christian can advocate fighting the lawless takeover of our cities. I therefore embrace looting as a means to redress in social inequities.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:40 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
...* I made this up
Well, here's a real one, and it's every bit as legit as the other examples of "lefty violence" in this thread: Tesla owner faces manslaughter charges in deadly crash.

A Tesla owner?? Gotta be a lefty! Political violence, worse than January 6!!!
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:50 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://www.wmbriggs.com/post/32418/

Even though riots, looting, pillaging, murder and mayhem and treason are illegal, immoral, and unethical, and that putting them down through the use of violence is historically validated, legal, moral, and ethical, we all know violence is wrong. So, even though I advocated opening fire on the lawless rabble two days ago, I now see no good Christian can advocate fighting the lawless takeover of our cities. I therefore embrace looting as a means to redress in social inequities.
I'm not sure lives should be taken to protect designer handbags. YMMV
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Old 23rd September 2022, 08:20 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The assailants have not been identified, so we have no direct evidence of their motivations. All we really know from the photos is they were carrying trans pride flags, which doesn't exactly strike me as right wing signaling.

That said, I find it curious that you completely discount the inferential value of pro-trans pro-violence messaging clearly from the left.
We also don't have any evidence that this beat down of the old man wasn't carried out by deep drag undercover psyops proudboys looking to make TRAs look bad and reinforce the heterofascist patriarchy either.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 03:54 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
A long post to say "I have no evidence for the claim".
Why ignore the flags? I've never yet seen a right-winger carry one of those, even on sci-fi shows.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 11:19 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not sure lives should be taken to protect designer handbags. YMMV
Bag Labels Matter.
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Old 24th September 2022, 12:34 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Why ignore the flags? I've never yet seen a right-winger carry one of those, even on sci-fi shows.
Can't tell if you're serious.
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Old 24th September 2022, 05:13 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Can't tell if you're serious.
See if you can tell whether this violently pro-trans rhetoric is coming from the left or the right: https://www.feministcurrent.com/2017...r-hate-speech/
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Old 24th September 2022, 05:45 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Bag Labels Matter.
Nommed!
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:01 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
See if you can tell whether this violently pro-trans rhetoric is coming from the left or the right: https://www.feministcurrent.com/2017...r-hate-speech/
OK, I've read it. So what?

See if you can provide evidence that the attitudes expressed are due them being "leftist", or for any other more likely reasons.

You do seem to be saying that someone who has even a few "leftist" ideologies somehow guarantees that every step they take, every vow they break, every cake they bake is a result of and driven by that ideology, and nothing else.

It isn't. Get a grip.
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:04 AM   #236
Venom
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Well, here's a real one, and it's every bit as legit as the other examples of "lefty violence" in this thread: Tesla owner faces manslaughter charges in deadly crash.

A Tesla owner?? Gotta be a lefty! Political violence, worse than January 6!!!
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:10 AM   #237
Susheel
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
OK, I've read it. So what?

See if you can provide evidence that the attitudes expressed are due them being "leftist", or for any other more likely reasons.

You do seem to be saying that someone who has even a few "leftist" ideologies somehow guarantees that every step they take, every vow they break, every cake they bake is a result of and driven by that ideology, and nothing else.

It isn't. Get a grip.
It's basically "straw clutching." I can just imagine them scouring through the web just to find something that will "show the libs". Consider the fact that when confronted with the far larger issue of right-wing violence, rather than address it, they not only skew definitions for right/left binaries, but also try and normalize it with the "Hey, both sides do it," argument.
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:22 AM   #238
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You do seem to be saying that someone who has even a few "leftist" ideologies somehow guarantees that every step they take, every vow they break, every cake they bake is a result of and driven by that ideology, and nothing else.
Research the ideology of any of the people who justify violence against TERFs. See for yourself whether they are coming from the right or the left. (Hint: Rose emoji usually means left of electable Democrats.)
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Last edited by d4m10n; 24th September 2022 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 24th September 2022, 10:57 AM   #239
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
A 41-year-old man runs down and kills an 18-year-old with his car after an argument at a political street dance.
Quote:
Court papers show Brandt called 911 around 2:30 a.m. Sunday and told the 911 dispatcher that he just hit Ellingson, claiming the teen was part of a Republican extremist group and was calling people to come get Brandt after a political argument.
Must've been a fascist.


https://www.inforum.com/news/north-d...itical-dispute
This article on the Brandt charge for killing Ellingson being "leftist violence" is exactly what we've seen happening in this thread: people jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence that Brandt is a 'leftist'.

Quote:
"Court papers show Brandt called 911 around 2:30 a.m. Sunday and told the 911 dispatcher that he just hit Ellingson, claiming the teen was part of a Republican extremist group and was calling people to come get Brandt after a political argument," our Matt Henson reports .

That statement quickly became fodder for the dumpster fire that represents our national political moment. Many on the right seized on the comments as a way to shoehorn Ellingson's death into some larger narrative.

The people jumping to conclusions, from talk radio ranters to cable news bloviators to social media mouth breathers, didn't let facts get in their way. Here's a representative example from Jack Posobiec, a MAGA-world luminary and Pizzagate conspiracy promoter with over 1.8 million Twitter followers:


Jack Posobiec XLV
@JackPosobiec
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Driver: 'Yeah so I killed him. Yes we had a political disagreement so I ran him over. He was an extremist Republican you see'

North Dakota: *releases driver on bond, doesn't charge for murder*
The problem with this is that: Brandt never said any of that and was charged with vehicular homicide after posting a $50K bond. Brandt said he was afraid that Ellingson was calling people to come attack him and that's why he ran him over. Whether this is what he actually believed we can't know, but Brandt never said he hit Ellingson because he was a Republican, extremist or not.

"Pay Attention to ME!" Ted Cruz:


Quote:
Ted Cruz
@tedcruz
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Leftist murders a teenager because he was a Republican.

Then, he’s promptly released on bail.

Twisted. Dems’ hateful rhetoric continues to bear toxic fruit.

No evidence Brandt is a 'leftist' and he never said he ran down Ellingson because he was a Republican. The irony of Cruz accusing Dems of "hateful rhetoric" bearing fruit after Jan.6 is off the charts.

These are the things we don't know that must be answered before this incident can be claimed as "leftist violence":

Quote:
Were Brandt or Ellingson really motivated by political animus?

Was it merely a politically themed disagreement fueled by alcohol?

Was Brandt's reported comments about extremist Republicans anything more than an off-the-cuff remark from an agitated suspect in a tense situation who, reportedly, had been drinking?
He was drinking as he admitted and which his blood alcohol level proved. He was also charged with DUI.

Highway Patrol Captain Bryan Niewind said:"There has been no corroboration that this was even politically motivated at all." No witnesses have verified a political argument took place.
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:32 PM   #240
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Research the ideology of any of the people who justify violence against TERFs. See for yourself whether they are coming from the right or the left. (Hint: Rose emoji usually means left of electable Democrats.)
Again, you miss the point.

They might also be all male. Or all Black. Or all left-handed. Or Russians. Or all bigoted idiots. Or whatever. There's no evidence any of this has been caused BECAUSE they may or may not hold political viewpoints.

The person who killed leftist Trotsky was a leftist himself. Von Staffenburg, who attempted to assassinate fascist Hitler, was as right-wing as they come. Both had other reasons besides their politics alone to attempt great violence.

As I said, the motivation for violence is rarely due directly to their politics. It's very often something else more mundane and personal, like bias or hatreds or personalities or even drugs. Get a grip.
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