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Old 27th June 2022, 08:47 AM   #1
alfaniner
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Praying on the 50-yard line - Supreme Court decision

Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach
(It's tough to decide where to put these types of threads. Social Issues and Current Events? Religion and Philosophy? I figured since the Supreme Court is one of the three branches of the United States Government, USA Politics is probably the most appropriate area.)

I think this is going to have some unintended consequences. However, I think it would be kind of neat to see the Christians kneeling, the Muslims prone praying, the Baptists holding a revival, and the Satanists do whatever they do -- all at the same time on the 50-yard line after a game. For the record I think it's sort of OK, as long as all religions (or "no" religions) are allowed. (Ain't gonna happen, I know.) A problem being -- are the students encouraged/expected to be out there with him, and ostracized or sanctioned if not?

I see that "Church of Satan" is trending on Twitter. Funny how so many people can consider the implications when I don't think the SC did.
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Old 27th June 2022, 08:55 AM   #2
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Re: where to put thread: we need a new forum called Approaching Dystopia. Next Supreme Court challenge: "Maybe it's time to revisit those 13th and 14th amendments..."
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:13 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach
(It's tough to decide where to put these types of threads. Social Issues and Current Events? Religion and Philosophy? I figured since the Supreme Court is one of the three branches of the United States Government, USA Politics is probably the most appropriate area.)

I think this is going to have some unintended consequences. However, I think it would be kind of neat to see the Christians kneeling, the Muslims prone praying, the Baptists holding a revival, and the Satanists do whatever they do -- all at the same time on the 50-yard line after a game. For the record I think it's sort of OK, as long as all religions (or "no" religions) are allowed. (Ain't gonna happen, I know.) A problem being -- are the students encouraged/expected to be out there with him, and ostracized or sanctioned if not?

I see that "Church of Satan" is trending on Twitter. Funny how so many people can consider the implications when I don't think the SC did.
It's hard to tell what the Church of Satan would do in this situation, but if there's something hilarious that would show the hypocrisy, they'll find it.
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:17 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's hard to tell what the Church of Satan would do in this situation, but if there's something hilarious that would show the hypocrisy, they'll find it.
Tantric ritual sex on the 50 yard line wearing those snazzy goat heads, duh. Pretty sure they already do that in Philly, though.
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Tantric ritual sex on the 50 yard line wearing those snazzy goat heads, duh. Pretty sure they already do that in Philly, though.
Well, I think the hard part to do anything that would be entertaining is that the high school players appear to be concerned that not praying would cost them playing time. Which is troubling, but our current court doesn't give a **** about rights or separating them at this point.

I don't think any students will rock the boat, which will just leave the CoS with little opportunities. Though I hope they can figure something out.
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:27 AM   #6
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Yeah, I don't see this ruling as highly controversial. The level of outrage people might express probably depends on their feelings about the particular religion that is referenced.
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Old 27th June 2022, 09:30 AM   #7
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A citizen's womb is the state's business, but what state employees do on state dime on state property is not the state's business. Makes perfect sense.
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Old 27th June 2022, 10:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach
(It's tough to decide where to put these types of threads. Social Issues and Current Events? Religion and Philosophy? I figured since the Supreme Court is one of the three branches of the United States Government, USA Politics is probably the most appropriate area.)

I think this is going to have some unintended consequences. However, I think it would be kind of neat to see the Christians kneeling, the Muslims prone praying, the Baptists holding a revival, and the Satanists do whatever they do -- all at the same time on the 50-yard line after a game. For the record I think it's sort of OK, as long as all religions (or "no" religions) are allowed. (Ain't gonna happen, I know.) A problem being -- are the students encouraged/expected to be out there with him, and ostracized or sanctioned if not?

I see that "Church of Satan" is trending on Twitter. Funny how so many people can consider the implications when I don't think the SC did.
Rather difficult when five of them have their heads jammed so far up their butts that they've never seen the sun shine.
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Old 27th June 2022, 10:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Re: where to put thread: we need a new forum called Approaching Dystopia. Next Supreme Court challenge: "Maybe it's time to revisit those 13th and 14th amendments..."
Amen.

………..

As for CoS, if it were me, I’d just hold up a bright light (to honor Lucifer). It is completely innocuous and I think the Baptists would be annoyed.

…….
Sotomayor wrote in her minority opinion that it was "unprecedented" for the court to hold that Kennedy's conduct, "taken as a whole, did not raise cognizable" concerns of coercion.

I have a hunch we are going to hear the word unprecedented in a lot of upcoming minority decisions.
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Old 27th June 2022, 10:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, I don't see this ruling as highly controversial. The level of outrage people might express probably depends on their feelings about the particular religion that is referenced.
Something tells me you aren't familiar with the issue. It's like a lot of these church-state-school issues. The players are pressured into joining in the spectacle.

This is not about praying to one's false god (they are all false gods). It's about proselytizing at a school event. Otherwise why do it it the middle of the field during a game? And why is it an individual rights issue? It should be a school admin decision.


On another note, you can bet school prayer is next. These SCOTUS fundies are on a roll.

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Old 27th June 2022, 10:21 AM   #11
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I don't like how the description of what was happening, and the facts of what was actually happening do not match. For those that follow the court more closely, is this an anomaly or this happens more often then people are aware of? I feel we have to accept different interpretations of how text is applied to different cases, even if its justification for a preconceived end point. That seems quite different than the highest court inaccurately describing what is going on and ruling on that.
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Old 27th June 2022, 10:52 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Supreme Court further erodes separation between church and state in case of praying football coach
(It's tough to decide where to put these types of threads. Social Issues and Current Events? Religion and Philosophy? I figured since the Supreme Court is one of the three branches of the United States Government, USA Politics is probably the most appropriate area.)

I think this is going to have some unintended consequences. However, I think it would be kind of neat to see the Christians kneeling…

Not according to Matthew 6:5-6.
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Old 27th June 2022, 11:22 AM   #13
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I wonder if the decision would have been the same if, say, a Muslim coach had unrolled a prayer rug and faced east.
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Old 27th June 2022, 11:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I wonder if the decision would have been the same if, say, a Muslim coach had unrolled a prayer rug and faced east.

I bet if it had been the same, you wouldn't be hearing the same uproar from the current group expressing their discontent.
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Old 27th June 2022, 11:30 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, I don't see this ruling as highly controversial. The level of outrage people might express probably depends on their feelings about the particular religion that is referenced.
It's only a reversal of multiple precedents going back to 1962 by a Christian Nationalist court. No biggie.
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Old 27th June 2022, 11:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I bet if it had been the same, you wouldn't be hearing the same uproar from the current group expressing their discontent.
You don't think a school system has a right to determine what a coach can say and do in his official capacity at a school event at a school facility with students? You think that might not open some cans of worms?
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Old 27th June 2022, 11:49 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I wonder if the decision would have been the same if, say, a Muslim coach had unrolled a prayer rug and faced east.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I bet if it had been the same, you wouldn't be hearing the same uproar from the current group expressing their discontent.
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You don't think a school system has a right to determine what a coach can say and do in his official capacity at a school event at a school facility with students? You think that might not open some cans of worms?

What I think is exactly what I stated. What the school system has a right to do does not change that opinion.
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Old 27th June 2022, 12:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I bet if it had been the same, you wouldn't be hearing the same uproar from the current group expressing their discontent.
You would be hearing very loud complaints from the hypocritical Evangelicals and other hypocritical Christians, and for that matter, a whole bunch of other Americans who don't get the reason for separation of church and state.

Some of the rest of us would be snickering.

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Old 27th June 2022, 12:56 PM   #19
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Well, at least this whole thing gave the coach a new career posing kneeling in various places for pictures to put in articles.
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Old 27th June 2022, 12:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Well, at least this whole thing gave the coach a new career posing kneeling in various places for pictures to put in articles.
...just drumming my fingers till the memes with the coach kneeling in front of a priest come out...
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Old 27th June 2022, 01:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I bet if it had been the same, you wouldn't be hearing the same uproar from the current group expressing their discontent.
Nice dodge.
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Old 27th June 2022, 01:10 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...just drumming my fingers till the memes with the coach kneeling in front of a priest come out...
FUndy evangelicals like the coach and the Catholic Church don't like each other very much, though.
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Old 27th June 2022, 01:18 PM   #23
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Re: Suggestion for a meme of the coach kneeling in front of a priest...
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
FUndy evangelicals like the coach and the Catholic Church don't like each other very much, though.
How about one of him kneeling in front of Trump? Or Putin?
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Old 27th June 2022, 01:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
FUndy evangelicals like the coach and the Catholic Church don't like each other very much, though.
Trust me, the US has its own version of Catholicism. There is plenty of clergy who openly called for supporting right-wing politicians and policies. Georgetown and Notre Dame have become pipelines for far-right Catholics (or tradcaths) to implement right-wing evangelical policy in the government. Thomas, Alito, Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Baret are all Catholic.
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Old 27th June 2022, 01:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You don't think a school system has a right to determine what a coach can say and do in his official capacity at a school event at a school facility with students? You think that might not open some cans of worms?
I think that it doesn't matter to six Supreme Court justices who are determined to turn this country over to the Christian Taliban.
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Old 27th June 2022, 02:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I wonder if the decision would have been the same if, say, a Muslim coach had unrolled a prayer rug and faced east.
I think one of the issues is that when it is a Christian coach in a (sort of ) christian-majority country (or region), students at the school might feel pressure to "go with the group" and adopt their little sky-daddy ritual.

A Muslim coach probably wouldn't provide the same pressure to conform, since Muslims make up a signficantly smaller portion of the population (so you can't force students to "go with the group".)
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Old 27th June 2022, 03:27 PM   #27
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Discussion of inconvenient or embarrassing but factual aspects of American history: illegal.

Tacit endorsement of a specific religion: protected.

Just keeping score...
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Old 27th June 2022, 03:56 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think one of the issues is that when it is a Christian coach in a (sort of ) christian-majority country (or region), students at the school might feel pressure to "go with the group" and adopt their little sky-daddy ritual.

A Muslim coach probably wouldn't provide the same pressure to conform, since Muslims make up a signficantly smaller portion of the population (so you can't force students to "go with the group".)

Also, a Muslim coach probably wouldn't want to make a spectacle of themselves or their religion at all in the first place. I have never in my life had a Muslim talk to me about their religion in any way, or try and convert me. They don't knock on doors, send literature, put fliers on peoples' car windshields or do anything else.

They seem respectful and content to have their religion regardless of what others think. Maybe they are just afraid of the crazy intolerant Christians?

Why can't Christians just shut the **** up like everyone else? Gawdamn they are annoying. Ya I came here just to say that.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Why can't Christians just shut the **** up like everyone else?
Oh, didn't you know?

According to Gorsuch, who wrote the opinion, all he was doing was a "quiet, private prayer"

Of course, Sotomayer included a picture of this "quiet, private prayer" that included all the guys from the football team praying along with him.

It's bad enough that they can't shut up, but the level of dishonesty is mind-boggling.

Just like Jan 6 was just a normal tour through the Capital.

It's one thing for them to lie, but that supreme court jusitices just go right along with it.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I wonder if the decision would have been the same if, say, a Muslim coach had unrolled a prayer rug and faced east.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I bet if it had been the same, you wouldn't be hearing the same uproar from the current group expressing their discontent.
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Also, a Muslim coach probably wouldn't want to make a spectacle of themselves or their religion at all in the first place.
...
Why can't Christians just shut the **** up like everyone else? Gawdamn they are annoying. Ya I came here just to say that.
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's bad enough that they can't shut up, but the level of dishonesty is mind-boggling.

Just like Jan 6 was just a normal tour through the Capital.

It's one thing for them to lie, but that supreme court jusitices just go right along with it.

Just like I said.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Just like I said.
Try me.

Where is the Muslim coach pulling the same crap?
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Try me.

Where is the Muslim coach pulling the same crap?

You are missing the point. Clearly this isn't just about the law for some folks. They just can't stand Christians. Just read the rhetoric that I quoted.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:28 PM   #33
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It is now apparently legal to force students to pray with you, on school property, during school hours. Welcome to the Theocratic States of America.

Which Religion do people think will come out on top as the state religion?
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You are missing the point. Clearly this isn't just about the law for some folks. They just can't stand Christians. Just read the rhetoric that I quoted.
What rhetoric?

Gorsuch claimed he lost his job because of a "quiet, private prayer"

It's nonsense. He wasn't doing a quiet nor private prayer.

It's not about not standing Christians, its about not standing lying pieces of crap.

I get that you like people who lie (you are a Trump supporter), but as I said, show me a Muslim who does the same thing and you'll see it's not a Christian thing.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:45 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold
It's not about not standing Christians, its about not standing lying pieces of crap.

I get that you like people who lie (you are a Trump supporter), but as I said, show me a Muslim who does the same thing and you'll see it's not a Christian thing.

Your comments expressed a clear disdain for Christians (as I quoted). And I am not a Trump supporter, not that it would matter.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Why can't Christians just shut the **** up like everyone else?
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's bad enough that they can't shut up, but the level of dishonesty is mind-boggling.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Your comments expressed a clear disdain for Christians (as I quoted). And I am not a Trump supporter, not that it would matter.
As I said, show me Muslims who act the same way and you will see its not a disdain for Christians, just ********. And more importantly, lying ********.
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Old 27th June 2022, 04:52 PM   #37
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Old 27th June 2022, 05:09 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
As I said, show me Muslims who act the same way and you will see its not a disdain for Christians, just ********. And more importantly, lying ********.

Well, if that is the case then agreeing that Christians need to "shut the **** up" is probably not the best way to deliver that message, right? Sorry if I misinterpreted your intended meaning...but it seemed very much in agreement with the prior anti-Christian sentiment expressed.

I think my interpretation was reasonable.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Why can't Christians just shut the **** up like everyone else?
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's bad enough that they can't shut up, but the level of dishonesty is mind-boggling.
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Last edited by Warp12; 27th June 2022 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 27th June 2022, 05:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Your comments expressed a clear disdain for Christians (as I quoted). And I am not a Trump supporter, not that it would matter.
As long as the Christers try to force their religion down my throat, I will respond with disdain and contempt.
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Old 27th June 2022, 05:26 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Also, a Muslim coach probably wouldn't want to make a spectacle of themselves or their religion at all in the first place. I have never in my life had a Muslim talk to me about their religion in any way, or try and convert me. They don't knock on doors, send literature, put fliers on peoples' car windshields or do anything else.

They seem respectful and content to have their religion regardless of what others think. Maybe they are just afraid of the crazy intolerant Christians?

Why can't Christians just shut the **** up like everyone else? Gawdamn they are annoying. Ya I came here just to say that.
Christians have a right to preach what they beleive in, like any any other American, but they have NO right to force other people to listen to them.
And that si the problem, too many Xtians think they should have the right to compell people to listen to their sermons.
In other words, they have the right to stand on their soapboxes and preach their nonsense, but they have NO right to compel passerbys to stop and listen. Too many Christians think they do.
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