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Old 15th July 2022, 06:25 AM   #361
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
That's nice. With any luck we'll see Trump and his cronies prosecuted in court soon.

That's not what the January 6 hearings are, though. They're part of an investigation that should lead to indictments.
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:26 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
Yep.
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:40 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Not that this will matter to Trump loyalists who are gullible enough to swallow the Big Lie:
Having trouble with the link today.
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:59 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Quote:
That's nice. With any luck we'll see Trump and his cronies prosecuted in court soon.

That's not what the January 6 hearings are, though. They're part of an investigation that should lead to indictments.
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
I could be wrong, but aren't the charges he is facing in Georgia state-level charges (and thus outside the ability of a future president to pardon?

As for federal charges:

- It is possible that he won't be pardoned by a future republican president, depending on who it is/whatever animosity exists between them and Stubby McBonespurs

- A conviction would at least be a significant embarrassment, and any future republican would have to justify whey they granted a pardon
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Old 15th July 2022, 07:01 AM   #365
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When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?
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Old 15th July 2022, 09:34 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?
Beat me to it. The GQP is where embarrassment, shame and irony go to die. Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.
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Old 15th July 2022, 10:08 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?
Ok, maybe 'embarrassed' is the wrong word.

But they would have to justify to voters why they granted Stubby McBonespurs a pardon (which might cause problems with moderate voters.)

Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? I am sure a decade from now pretty much every republican will claim they were a "never Trumper".
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Old 15th July 2022, 10:11 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)?
Literally zero in any way that actually matters, just a bunch of Susan Collinses.

Again, and I'm trying to just completely snarky I get the appeal of this and I mean that sincerely and with zero snark, but this whole "Give them rope / let the show their true colors" thing just is not ever going to actually work.

We have to stop them, not passively hope they do it to themselves.
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Old 15th July 2022, 11:28 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
That is a strong possibility, but not a guarantee. Trump will always have his militant base that can't be disregarded easily. And the GQP will always have people who will vote for whoever has the R next to their name, but both of those groups are shrinking and we're seeing real conflict between them.

Plus, the circus performers they are running in some major races look to be turning people off. And not just in those races. People overall seem to be tired of the Republican nonsense. The next Republican administration may want to avoid picking up any of Trump's stink.

And there is actually some fire in a few Dem candidates. I don't think Beto will beat Abbott, but he can help keep and maybe even flip a couple of Texas seats in HoR.

Fetterman and Shapiro seem to be doing well in Pennsylvania. Ron Johnson is underwater in Wisconsin. JD Vance is trying to give Democrats every chance to steamroll him in Ohio. I just wish they had someone better than Tim Ryan.

Sooo, I don't know. The republicans seem hellbent on shooting themselves in the foot. But the Democrats have never willingly missed a chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Old 15th July 2022, 11:45 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
Then that will be on the Republicans but at least a conviction will show that a POTUS is not above the law. If he gets pardoned by some future GOP POTUS, so be it, but at least Trump will have been held accountable for his crimes and go down in history for it.
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Old 15th July 2022, 11:54 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
A prime example of Just Asking Questions, otherwise known as JAQing off.
And not giving a **** about the answers.

Does Iamafalser expect us to be awed by these challenges to our conclusions? Is he posting for lurkers? Is he just reaffirming his own beliefs?

Because he's definitely not interested in any challenges to his own beliefs.
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Old 15th July 2022, 12:03 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yep.
Debbie Downers me thinks.


Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Literally zero in any way that actually matters, just a bunch of Susan Collinses.

Again, and I'm trying to just completely snarky I get the appeal of this and I mean that sincerely and with zero snark, but this whole "Give them rope / let the show their true colors" thing just is not ever going to actually work.

We have to stop them, not passively hope they do it to themselves.
Yes we do and that starts with conviction that at least trying matters.


Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ok, maybe 'embarrassed' is the wrong word.

But they would have to justify to voters why they granted Stubby McBonespurs a pardon (which might cause problems with moderate voters.)

Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? I am sure a decade from now pretty much every republican will claim they were a "never Trumper".
After Ford pardoned Nixon some of my friends looked into emigrating. Not sure if they ever did.
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Old 15th July 2022, 12:42 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Then that will be on the Republicans but at least a conviction will show that a POTUS is not above the law. If he gets pardoned by some future GOP POTUS, so be it, but at least Trump will have been held accountable for his crimes and go down in history for it.
I'm more than happy to bag on Democratic leadership for performative nonsense like reading poems about Ukraine or singing God Bless America when Roe v Wade was struck down, but this is one of those times they need to swing big, even if they come up short.

Make the Republicans fight this. Drag them publicly for doing it. The hearings are having a negative effect on them. Stop worrying they will always do the worst thing and just assume they will. It frees you to do what you know is right.
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Old 15th July 2022, 12:47 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
I'm more than happy to bag on Democratic leadership for performative nonsense like reading poems about Ukraine or singing God Bless America when Roe v Wade was struck down, but this is one of those times they need to swing big, even if they come up short.

Make the Republicans fight this. Drag them publicly for doing it. The hearings are having a negative effect on them. Stop worrying they will always do the worst thing and just assume they will. It frees you to do what you know is right.
Agreed. To never hold Trump to account because he may be pardoned later is a non-sensical argument. If we use that rationale, Stone, Manafort, and Flynn should never have been charged and tried because we knew there was a good chance that Trump would pardon them.
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Old 15th July 2022, 12:52 PM   #375
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Again because the Republican trolls are all members of cult they think everyone else to and that WE have the same blindspot slavish devotion to our leaders they do.
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:19 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Agreed. To never hold Trump to account because he may be pardoned later is a non-sensical argument. If we use that rationale, Stone, Manafort, and Flynn should never have been charged and tried because we knew there was a good chance that Trump would pardon them.
Nonsensical it may be but Mueller subscribed to exactly that notion, which is why his report turned out to be such a dud. He wouldn't touch anything that would directly implicate Trump, which was everything because Trump is just that much of a crook. So he poked some Russians and took down everyone's clearly and obviously perjured statements and twiddled his thumbs waiting for a congress more willing to do his job for him that never arrived.
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:30 PM   #377
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Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:36 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020
God,you still don't get that citing Right Wing Hacks like Solomon as your source gets you nowhere here?
And is Solomon still carryinf Putin;s water on the Ukraine.
And The Big Lie is still The BIg Lie.,
I will make it short and sweet: Do you believe that the 2020 election was stolen or not?
And I see you seem to have forgotten your "I am through with Trump" statement. Not that many here ever really bought into it.
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:39 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020
I'll check this out right after I read "21 Things that Totally Prove Bigfoot is Real" written by some guy who believes that Bigfoot is real.
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:55 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:​

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:56 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:​

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.
Until SCOTUS says the 14th Amendment doesn't say that, which they will.
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Old 15th July 2022, 01:58 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And not giving a **** about the answers.

Does Iamafalser expect us to be awed by these challenges to our conclusions? Is he posting for lurkers? Is he just reaffirming his own beliefs?

Because he's definitely not interested in any challenges to his own beliefs.
Of course, its possible for two different things to both be true!
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Old 15th July 2022, 02:00 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Until SCOTUS says the 14th Amendment doesn't say that, which they will.
It will take years before it gets to that, and by that time, Trump will likely have have snuffed it (or someone will have helped him to it).
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Old 15th July 2022, 02:03 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
Just the News, run by veteran partisan right wing hack who laughably calls himself a journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

FTFY


Oh, and I bothered to read the article. Its all irrelevant and/or unsubstantiated and/or misleading lies and disinformation.
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Old 15th July 2022, 02:45 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
FTFY


Oh, and I bothered to read the article. Its all irrelevant and/or unsubstantiated and/or misleading lies and disinformation.
Thank you for your service to our skepticism. I started the article and couldn't finish given the irrelevances, the innuendo, etc.
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Old 15th July 2022, 03:01 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020


I think people in this thread are familiar with Solomon's work.
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Old 15th July 2022, 03:10 PM   #387
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Was this posted already? It's from yesterday but I only saw it today.

Conservative group finds ‘absolutely no evidence of widespread fraud’ in 2020 election
Quote:
Eight prominent conservatives released a 72-page report Thursday refuting claims of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election in dozens of unsuccessful court cases brought forth by former President Trump and his allies.

The group — which includes former federal judges, Republican senators and Republican-appointed officials — said they reviewed all 64 court cases Trump and his allies initiated challenging the election outcome, saying they had reached an “unequivocal” conclusion that the claims were unsupported by evidence.

“We conclude that Donald Trump and his supporters had their day in court and failed to produce substantive evidence to make their case,” the group wrote. ...

The group consists of former Sen. John Danforth (R-Mo.); longtime Republican lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg; former federal Judge Thomas Griffith; David Hoppe, chief of staff to former House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.); former federal judge J. Michael Luttig; former federal judge Michael McConnell; Theodore Olson, solicitor general under former President George W. Bush; and former Sen. Gordon Smith (R-Ore.).

“We urge our fellow conservatives to cease obsessing over the results of the 2020 election, and to focus instead on presenting candidates and ideas that offer a positive vision for overcoming our current difficulties and bringing greater peace, prosperity and liberty to our nation,” the group wrote.
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Old 15th July 2022, 03:24 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Thank you for your service to our skepticism. I started the article and couldn't finish given the irrelevances, the innuendo, etc.
Yeah, I managed to get to point 3.
What a complete and utter waste of time, it's a load of cobblers!
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Old 15th July 2022, 03:43 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Was this posted already? It's from yesterday but I only saw it today.
Stacyhs got it. Post 357.
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Old 15th July 2022, 04:05 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020
Just the News MediaBias/Fact Check: "Extreme Right Bias"
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Overall, we rate Just the News Questionable and Right Biased based on story selection that mostly favors a conservative perspective. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks and the promotion of conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-news/
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Old 15th July 2022, 04:20 PM   #391
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BE afraid, Donald. Be very afraid:

Quote:
The Atlanta-area district attorney investigating Donald Trump and his allies’ efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia sent a target letter to state Republican party Chair David Shafer, warning him that he may be indicted as part of her investigation, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

Shafer, who has faced inquiries from federal investigators, Georgia prosecutors and the House select committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol, acted as a pro-Trump elector in Georgia. He also helped organize the fake slate of electors in the Peach State, which Trump lost by nearly 12,000 votes.

The letter was first reported by Yahoo News, which also reported other Georgia officials received similar target letters.
https://abc17news.com/politics/natio...lection-probe/
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Old 15th July 2022, 05:42 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
BE afraid, Donald. Be very afraid:


https://abc17news.com/politics/natio...lection-probe/
It seems to me if you had anything to do with the fake elector scheme, you are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the respective state.
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Old 15th July 2022, 05:47 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It seems to me if you had anything to do with the fake elector scheme, you are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the respective state.
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Old 15th July 2022, 05:50 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
Yeah, I managed to get to point 3.
What a complete and utter waste of time, it's a load of cobblers!
But...HUNTER BIDEN!! and...his laptop....and did you forget HUNTER BIDEN??
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:04 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:​

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.
I don't think you will see any prosecutions for sedition, it is a very hard charge to prove an juries are usually reluctant to convict.
And there are plenty of other things they can charge Trumpy with.
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:05 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
And while he waits, the master baits. 😀

The polapsed orange anus will announce its candidacy, and then the DOJ will not/can not indict because it will be perceived as 'political.'

The US is fracked.
Which seem to give you great pleasure.
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:34 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
But...HUNTER BIDEN!! and...his laptop....and did you forget HUNTER BIDEN??
BENGHAZI!!!!!
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Old 15th July 2022, 06:44 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
BENGHAZI!!!!!
E-mails!
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Old 16th July 2022, 12:49 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
E-mails!
Vince Foster!
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Old 16th July 2022, 01:39 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Vince Foster!
I'll see your Vince Foster and raise you one Comet Ping Pong.
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