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View Poll Results: The raid was...
Absolutely a good thing - no question 127 77.44%
An outrage, a travesty - what about Magna Carta? Did she die in vain? 4 2.44%
I'll wait before I make a judgement thank you. 27 16.46%
Mar-X-Lago! 6 3.66%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9th August 2022, 10:34 AM   #81
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
This is one of the most idiotic arguments you have ever made. I suppose murder and jaywalking should be treated equally in the eyes of the law? You truly have run out of anything worthwhile to say (of course, this assumes you have ever had anything worthwhile to say, which is very doubtful) and are now reduced to stretching for the silliest garbage because of your pathological need for attention!
A) OP asked for a hot take and I obliged

B) At least get my take right. Jaywalking and murder are different criminal acts. I discussed 2 actions covered by the same law (PRA) separated by severity.

C) I'm open to the argument that they should be treated the same
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:38 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Ya' gotta' ask why, if Trump's blameless as his supporters claim, he didn't straighten this whole matter out months ago.

If he didn't have materials he was not supposed to take home with him he could have established that fact.

If had taken home materials he shouldn't have he could done a "my bad" and returned the stuff.

The way he's acting makes him look guilty.
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
That's the thing, the relevant agencies have bent over backward to give Trump and his cronies wiggle room to get out of these charges at every step. They specifically are trying to avoid the appearance of partisanship and preserve the dignity of the Office of POTUS.

Whatever happened yesterday was months in the making and the FBI most likely took every reasonable step to avoid it.
My guess is that tapering with records, removing files and destroying evidence is old hat for Trump.

I'd bet that if we dug into Trump's previous legal troubles we'd find several instances when files and records conveniently turned up missing.

I suspect the FBI and the Justice Dept. knew all about Trump's propensity for 86ing incriminating evidence and decided to move quickly before the stuff ended up in the bottom of the bay.
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:40 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You have to also realize that a judge signed of on the search warrant. The FBI had to convince one, that a crime was committed, two they had a reasonable likelihood of finding evidence and three that they couldn't obtain the evidence any other way.
Someone had a joke that the magistrate judge probably has ambition to become a district judge and probably just got hosed of ever getting confirmed if there is a repub president or repub senate in power.
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:56 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Republicans have fallen back on their standard...

The Republicans are openly no longer an organization that respects the law or intends to
follow it, therefore punishing us for breaking the law is nothing but a "political" act.

... routine.
Meanwhile I wonder how many republicans are actually hoping that this latest 'event' actually causes Trump to be arrested?

I am sure Moscow Mitch would rather not have Trump fouling up any plans for the republicans to retake the senate. But, he made a deal with the devil back in 2016 and has stuck by him out of fear of the MAGAchud. Seeing him get arrested while the democrats are in power would take Trump out of the equation, while also whipping up the republican base.
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:58 AM   #85
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I don't think anyone knows if the Republicans are viable without Trump's cult members.

They can't afford to split their base. They will burn the country to the ground to save Trump because the alternative is something nobody in politics can stand, uncertainty.
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:58 AM   #86
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It's not like he wasn't warned.

TRUMP knew for months..about FBI coming to get documents..he was told and locks put on …the DRAMA..is on him..
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:00 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't think anyone knows if the Republicans are viable without Trump's cult members.

They can't afford to split their base. They will burn the country to the ground to save Trump because the alternative is something nobody in politics can stand, uncertainty.
The desantis for president strategy has always had the flaw that they can't talk badly about Trump to get desantis
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:26 AM   #88
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I really don't think this raid is all about boxes he took from the WH. Those just aren't important enough for such an unprecedented raid. There is more to this than we are being told. They're after something else and it's got to be big.

Of course, his moronic cult followers are demonstrating their outrage outside M-a-L with the standard Trump flags flying from the back of pickups. They really are dumber than a box of rocks.

Adding to a previous post about the conditions for obtaining a warrant: if there is credible concern that evidence is in imminent danger of being destroyed a warrant can be issued.
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:29 AM   #89
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//Spitball//

I bet you could also get a warrant REAL quick if there was a chance said document was about to find its way into the hands of a foreign agent.
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:29 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I really don't think this raid is all about boxes he took from the WH. Those just aren't important enough for such an unprecedented raid. There is more to this than we are being told. They're after something else and it's got to be big.

Of course, his moronic cult followers are demonstrating their outrage outside M-a-L with the standard Trump flags flying from the back of pickups. They really are dumber than a box of rocks.

Adding to a previous post about the conditions for obtaining a warrant: if there is credible concern that evidence is in imminent danger of being destroyed a warrant can be issued.
But...I kinda do think it warrants a raid if it is just boxes. At a fundamental level, Presidential records are government property and not Trump's. At some point, the government needs to secure government property. Government records should be important to the government.
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:32 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
If the planet-x option was “ nobody can prove to me that Donald Trump exists, so the FBI is subverting justice by persecuting a non-existent person” it would have at least one vote.
Weird I was thinking exactly the same thing - two votes
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:38 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Spitball//

I bet you could also get a warrant REAL quick if there was a chance said document was about to find its way into the hands of a foreign agent.
"Chance"? I just assume that anything Trump saw or heard he told Putin directly, hoping for praise. He was probably reading things over the phone to Putin, and only his slow reading pace prevented him from giving too much away. And frequent distractions. "The....se...cret....code...to the....nuc...u....lar...miss...les...is.... hey, did I ever tell you I met Milton Berle? Great guy, what a guy, he said to me, he said....oh, yeah, the nucular stuff. The...se...cret...code...is...I'm going to have ketchup on my steak tonight, what are you eating? Do you have ketchup in Russia? Ketchup is amazing, it's the best. The guy who invented ketchup, he was a genius, and I met him and he was so impressed with me he said...oh! yeah, the secret code. The...se...cret...code...to..."

Putin probably had a team of doctors pushing tranquilizers through an IV for those calls, to prevent rage-triggered apoplexy.
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Old 9th August 2022, 11:56 AM   #93
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Thread on Twitter that's getting some attention
https://twitter.com/UticaEric/status...42952294481921

Extract:
Quote:
3) If this was just about returning TS or Codeword material to a proper secure location, then DJT's counsel could easily facilitate that exchange with FBI Miami, all sins forgiven.

4) My sense is there's something darker than 15 boxes, or AG Garland wouldn't have moved.
Replies are worth reading as well.
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:06 PM   #94
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Seriously?
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:34 PM   #95
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As for all the online screamers who are threatening violence over this, bring it on! Sooner or later we're going to have to find out who the serious threats are and who are just the weekend warrior blowhards. We're going to have to find out who in our military, National Guard, and police forces are going to stand by their oaths and show loyalty to the Constitution, and who the traitors are who are loyal to Trump and try to overthrow democracy, and should be lined up and shot or hanged!

And if as some are suggesting (and I hope it's not true), that Trump was selling classified info to the highest bidders, then he should be convicted of treason, sentenced to death, and executed like anyone else who would do the same.
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:45 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I really don't think this raid is all about boxes he took from the WH. Those just aren't important enough for such an unprecedented raid. There is more to this than we are being told. They're after something else and it's got to be big.

Of course, his moronic cult followers are demonstrating their outrage outside M-a-L with the standard Trump flags flying from the back of pickups. They really are dumber than a box of rocks.

Adding to a previous post about the conditions for obtaining a warrant: if there is credible concern that evidence is in imminent danger of being destroyed a warrant can be issued.
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:54 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
As for all the online screamers who are threatening violence over this, bring it on! Sooner or later we're going to have to find out who the serious threats are and who are just the weekend warrior blowhards. We're going to have to find out who in our military, National Guard, and police forces are going to stand by their oaths and show loyalty to the Constitution, and who the traitors are who are loyal to Trump and try to overthrow democracy, and should be lined up and shot or hanged!

And if as some are suggesting (and I hope it's not true), that Trump was selling classified info to the highest bidders, then he should be convicted of treason, sentenced to death, and executed like anyone else who would do the same.
We've long since crossed the threshold where earnestness and parody become indistinguishable, so this seems like a bit of a waste of effort really.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:27 PM   #98
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It's not even fun anymore. We already know what all the excuses are gonna be.

- Whattabouta
- "You're being dramatic."
- Any concept of law and order means you are politically biased against the Republicans.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:33 PM   #99
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THIS time, finally, they got him. It would be funny if it wasn't serious.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:37 PM   #100
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What is it they got him for, again?
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:37 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
THIS time, finally, they got him. It would be funny if it wasn't serious.
Knowing what a slippery piece of **** he really is, nobody is saying that until the jail door clinks shut, or he dies, or he flees out of reach.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:41 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Knowing what a slippery piece of **** he really is, nobody is saying that until the jail door clinks shut, or he dies, or he flees out of reach.
The question was; what is it they got him for?
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:43 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
The question was; what is it they got him for?
Oh the "Prove Trump did anything wrong to my satisfaction, starting from the beginning" routine. A classic.

Pretending the very idea that Trump did something wrong is totally new information that has never been brought up before, to say nothing of having been proven to "Water is wet" levels of rigor, go old about 5 years ago. Now it's just sad.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:44 PM   #104
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We don't know yet because there's something called due process.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:45 PM   #105
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Oh, OK, he's a ****** ****, and a *********** ****, not to mention a ******. That's what they got him for. Gotcha.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:46 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
The question was; what is it they got him for?
??? Nobody "got him". They got a warrant to enter and search the property. If it turns out what they were looking for is prosecutable, that prosecution happens, he gets convicted, all avenues of appeal fail, and he goes to the big house, THEN "they got him".
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:48 PM   #107
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The Republican response to the Mar-a-Lago raid should scare you


Quote:
After news of the FBI raid on Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home broke on Monday night, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy responded by openly threatening Attorney General Merrick Garland.

“The Department of Justice has reached an intolerable state of weaponized politicization,” he said in a statement. “Attorney General Garland, preserve your documents and clear your calendar.”

Think about this for a second. Here you have the likely next speaker of the House claiming without the tiniest shred of evidence that the Justice Department is persecuting a former president — and vowing to use his authority to punish them as a result. His response to his baseless claim of the politicization of investigative powers is to promise a politicized investigation of his own.

McCarthy was far from alone. Trump, who confirmed the raid in a lengthy statement, called it “an attack by the Radical Left Democrats who desperately don’t want me to run for President in 2024” — an allegation that set the tone for much of the party in the wake of the dramatic FBI operation.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, the leading non-Trump candidate in the 2024 GOP primary race, called the raid “another escalation in the weaponization of federal agencies against the Regime’s political opponents.” Sen. Rick Scott (FL), head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, called it “3rd World country stuff.” Rep. Elise Stefanik (NY), the third-ranking House Republican, called for “an immediate investigation and accountability into Joe Biden and his administration’s weaponizing this [Justice] department against their political opponents.”
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:51 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
nope.
I think the SS is a fundamentally corrupt agency with an extreme right-wing bias.
But it seems that self-preservation might be more important to them than loyalty to Trump.
I think you think that about every law enforcement agency,
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:52 PM   #109
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Michael Steele: Republicans should ‘try to be less stupid’ in wake of Mar-a-Lago raid


Quote:
Former Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele defended the FBI’s search of former President Trump’s home in a Monday tweet, arguing it was not a random move.

“Trump failed to return classified docs requested by the National Archives,” Steele wrote in response to a tweet by Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.).

“A federal judge issued a search warrant for probable cause of a crime. This is not some rando move by the FBI so you **** for brains Republicans calling for ‘defunding the FBI’ for once try to be less stupid,” Steele wrote.

Of course, he's a black RINO, probably a cousin of Barack Hussein Obama, of course.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:56 PM   #110
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Republicans won't stop being intentionally stupid for the sake of being stupid until being stupid for the sake of being stupid has literally one single negative effect on them.

It's more basic than laws or even morality. If actions have no downsides, you won't stop doing them.

Intellectual standards or at least a basic sense of shame used to put a hardcap on how much a person could dump into their "Stupid" stat but we let the trolls of the world take those two things out behind the barn and shoot them while we patted ourselves on the back about how well we were at ignoring them, so those don't work anymore.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:57 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh do we finally have a Trump defender (hopefully a "I'm totally not a Trump defender, how dare you call me a Trump defender" Trump Defender, the best kind) in the thread?

I was wondering what was taking so long.
The individual in question, based on previous history, seems to be someone who is violently anti establishment from a right wing point of view.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:58 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
The question was; what is it they got him for?
So you support the attempted overthrow of a democratically (small d) elected government?
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:00 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
??? Nobody "got him". They got a warrant to enter and search the property. If it turns out what they were looking for is prosecutable, that prosecution happens, he gets convicted, all avenues of appeal fail, and he goes to the big house, THEN "they got him".
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:04 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.
And what do you believe?
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:07 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
And what do you believe?
What makes sense.
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:09 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
What makes sense.
Anything one believes makes sense to that person. You just said you believe what you believe. You haven't said what it is that you believe.
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:15 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Anything one believes makes sense to that person. You just said you believe what you believe. You haven't said what it is that you believe.
I asked a simple question; what it is that you and the other locals on this forum believe 'they've' got Trump for? Why would you think a riposte is asking me what I believe (putting aside post #117)?
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:23 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
I asked a simple question; what it is that you and the other locals on this forum believe 'they've' got Trump for?
Well, it's been well documented that Trump removed classified documents after his term was over and stored them in Mar-a-Lago. It is entirely possible that they are looking for more.

It's also well established that Trump planned a coup following his re-election loss. It is possible that they are looking for more physical evidence.

Those are the two most obvious reason I could think off the top of my head. There are probably more. I guess we'll find out eventually.


Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Why would you think a riposte is asking me what I believe (putting aside post #117)?
Norman Alexander was describing how usual police investigations and criminal prosecutions work. Your response is that what NA described was gullible. What do you believe is happening?
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:32 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Well, it's been well documented that Trump removed classified documents after his term was over and stored them in Mar-a-Lago. It is entirely possible that they are looking for more.

It's also well established that Trump planned a coup following his re-election loss. It is possible that they are looking for more physical evidence.

Those are the two most obvious reason I could think off the top of my head. There are probably more. I guess we'll find out eventually.



Norman Alexander was describing how usual police investigations and criminal prosecutions work. Your response is that what NA described was gullible. What do you believe is happening?
Of course it has, in your imagination. How many of those Jan 6th protestors were armed?
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Old 9th August 2022, 02:35 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Of course it has, in your imagination. How many of those Jan 6th protestors were armed?
hm. You seem to be woefully uninformed about all the things that were going on in Trump's coup attempt, which was not limited to 1/6.

"Jan 6th protestors"
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