IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
View Poll Results: Will Trump be indicted for Federal or State crimes?
Yes 62 62.00%
No 38 38.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Old 15th August 2022, 05:06 AM   #41
Stellafane
Village Idiot.
 
Stellafane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8,222
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I voted yes. The DoJ is playing Game of Thrones here. They have to indict at this point. You don't just search a former president's home and walk away, not after you leave with boxes of classified information.
I agree, so I voted Yes. Like Waldo said, when you strike at a king, you better kill him. Raiding his home, and then saying "Didn't really find anything, oopsies my bad" will just further elevate Trump in the eyes of the deluded. And I can't even imagine how uncomfortable it would be for anyone involved in the raid during the second Trump administration.
__________________
"Stellafane! My old partner in crime!" - Kelly J
Stellafane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 05:07 AM   #42
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,070
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Federally, after the search warrant business at Mar-a-lardo, I can only see two possibilities...

1. Trump is indicted and goes to trial
2. Trump is not indicted, and Merrick Garland is forced to resign as AG

If Garland fails to gain an indictment against The Fat Orange Turd for at least one of the Federal crimes he is being investigated for, his continued service as AG could become untenable. This one is like a game of political "chicken", and as Captain Bart Mancuso (Scott Glenn) said in The Hunt For Red October.... "The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch!"

Statewise, the New York investigation will be interesting. The 440 times he invoked his fifth amendment right against self incrimination could work against him. In a criminal trial, a jury is not allowed to infer anything from this, but in a civil trial, the jury can infer wrongdoing when a witness or defendant takes the fifth.

In the Georgia election fraud case (which is a criminal investigation) it seems that the Fulton County DA Fani Willis is determined to keep going after him Also, everyone thought the Manhattan case was dead in the water when it seemed that the Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg was not interested in pursuing the investigation, but two days ago, a Manhattan judge declined to throw out the case against The Fat Orange Turd's family business and its CFO Allen Weisselberg. Looks like that will go to trial late next month.
The Reason I voted Yes is there is the Most evidence for the Obstruction Charge, of the Indictment and it is the easiest charge too Prove plus if their was Information of another Crime in the Privileged Documents Trump stated the DOJ took, that would Compound Trump's Legal Problem, Lawyer Client Privilege can't be used to cover up a Crime.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 06:37 AM   #43
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,926
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Also, everyone thought the Manhattan case was dead in the water when it seemed that the Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg was not interested in pursuing the investigation, but two days ago, a Manhattan judge declined to throw out the case against The Fat Orange Turd's family business and its CFO Allen Weisselberg. Looks like that will go to trial late next month.
That wording gave me the wrong impression of what I think you are trying to say, so I'll re-say it.

The Manhattan case that Bragg did not go ahead with was a direct indictment against Trump. Bragg still has not directly indicted Trump.

The case that wasn't dismissed is the one against Weisselberg and the Trump business, as you say. Someone might get the impression that is was Bragg that tried to dismiss it from your wording. It was the Weisselberg side that tried to dismiss it. I'm not aware of Bragg ever expressing or demonstrating any reluctance on this trial. It is proceeding and pretty much close to schedule.

If NY/Bragg wins a conviction in this case and doesn't indict Trump then that would be a good reason to think Bragg has cold feet about that.

I'm getting the impression that they are going to pursue this case without Cohen's testifying. That will be interesting.

Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 15th August 2022 at 06:46 AM.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 07:03 AM   #44
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
I voted "No". It's very difficult to get a conviction against someone who can afford top lawyers. Especially with the crimes for which Trump is being investigated being fairly complex.
It depends on the crime, and the location involved.

SOME of the crimes that Trump has been involved with, such as instigating the Jan6 terrorist attack, tax fraud, ARE complex. (On the other hand, those cases may benefit from their location.... the tax fraud cases is in NY, in which Trump's support is lower.)

On the other hand, the mishandling of classified documents issue is pretty straight forward... "Were these documents in your possession? Yes. Can you point to the paperwork showing you were allowed to have them? No. We rest our case". The only thing that MIGHT save Trump in that case is if they hold the trial in Florida, where they have more MAGAchud voters who could get on the jury.

Quote:
If it was easy to get convictions against someone like Trump, he would probably already be in jail. Given the ramifications of Trump being acquitted, a prosecutor would have to be extremely confident of getting a conviction before putting Trump on trial.
Keep in mind that the issue isn't always "how hard is it to convict".

Trump had certain protections from simply being the president (with a standing DOJ directive that "you can't indict a sitting president"). Plus, many crimes COULD have resulted in an indictment/conviction but simply were overlooked, because that sort of thing seems to happen with a lot of white collar/financial crimes.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 11:23 AM   #45
arayder
Master Poster
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,852
I ask if he will be able to resist egging on his supporters over the Mar-a-Lago search and his several legal troubles.

If he starts civil unrest with his big fat mouth I am all for locking him up.
arayder is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 11:24 AM   #46
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,315
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
If he starts civil unrest with his big fat mouth I am all for locking him up.
*Dryly* Yes. If that outrageous, unlikely, purely hypothetical line gets crossed that would certainly change the landscape.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 11:24 AM   #47
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,273
Should Trump be indicted. Yes.

Will he be indicted? No.
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:16 PM   #48
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
 
gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,305
Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
I voted "No". It's very difficult to get a conviction against someone who can afford top lawyers. Especially with the crimes for which Trump is being investigated being fairly complex. If it was easy to get convictions against someone like Trump, he would probably already be in jail. Given the ramifications of Trump being acquitted, a prosecutor would have to be extremely confident of getting a conviction before putting Trump on trial.
Top lawyers, like Giuliani?

I think the competent lawyers abandoned Trump a long time ago.
__________________

gnome is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:27 PM   #49
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,315
It's gonna be Lionel Hutz. Like literally Lionel Hutz. The actual cartoon character. He's going to, in the real world, walk into court as Trump's lawyer, doing his entire schtick and at this point we won't even think it's weird.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:31 PM   #50
Hercules Rockefeller
Woof!
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,922
Reports that Trumps passport has been confiscated.
__________________
Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:36 PM   #51
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,152
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Reports that Trumps passport has been confiscated.
Three of them, technically. One expired, and then (from what I understand) he had a personal and a diplomatic one as well.

I don't know if I believe him though because he's full of piss and vinegar.
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:39 PM   #52
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,315
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Reports that Trumps passport has been confiscated.
Trump himself said so, in his... unique style, on his social media site.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:46 PM   #53
Jimbo07
Illuminator
 
Jimbo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,230
They don't call him Teflon Don because he was manufactured by DuPont!
__________________
This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group.

Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key
Jimbo07 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:46 PM   #54
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,315
I said it before, if this doesn't end in a raging thunderstorm, Trump on the roof of the White House with a gun to Nancy Pelosi's head, illuminated by a police spotlight, screaming into the wind for a briefcase full of unmarked bills and a chopper to fly him to a non-interdiction country this whole thing is going to feel anticlimactic.

Oh and the White House has to be on fire.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 12:54 PM   #55
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,146
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Reports that Trumps passport has been confiscated.
I'm still voting no, but that's a promising sign. I'll have to settle on a crow recipe just in case. Maybe a pie!
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 01:28 PM   #56
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,315
The babble hitting social media now is about a massive breach of data spearheaded by Trump's team on voting machines. We'll see soon enough of if it is signal or noise.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 01:53 PM   #57
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 22,279
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
That wording gave me the wrong impression of what I think you are trying to say, so I'll re-say it.

The Manhattan case that Bragg did not go ahead with was a direct indictment against Trump. Bragg still has not directly indicted Trump.

The case that wasn't dismissed is the one against Weisselberg and the Trump business, as you say. Someone might get the impression that is was Bragg that tried to dismiss it from your wording. It was the Weisselberg side that tried to dismiss it. I'm not aware of Bragg ever expressing or demonstrating any reluctance on this trial. It is proceeding and pretty much close to schedule.

If NY/Bragg wins a conviction in this case and doesn't indict Trump then that would be a good reason to think Bragg has cold feet about that.

I'm getting the impression that they are going to pursue this case without Cohen's testifying. That will be interesting.
Yeah! That was poor wording on my part that gave an ambiguous impression. It was a minute before midnight when I posted that, so I will blame tiredness.
__________________
Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that
Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so"
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:03 PM   #58
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 22,279
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
On the other hand, the mishandling of classified documents issue is pretty straight forward... "Were these documents in your possession? Yes. Can you point to the paperwork showing you were allowed to have them? No. We rest our case". The only thing that MIGHT save Trump in that case is if they hold the trial in Florida, where they have more MAGAchud voters who could get on the jury.
I seriously doubt it would take place in Florida.

The crime was actually committed in the Washington DC jurisdiction during the time when The Fat Orange Turd resided there. For example, if a crime such as a bank robbery took place in DC, the trial would be held in DC, not in Florida where the perpetrator was found in possession of the money.
__________________
Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that
Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so"
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:14 PM   #59
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Three of them, technically. One expired, and then (from what I understand) he had a personal and a diplomatic one as well.
Would the diplomatic one be considered "valid"?

I have friends that worked for various governments, and they often get special passports to use on government business. I assume Trump's "Diplomatic" passport is similar (i.e. to use when he is on presidential business).

But since he is no longer president, what happens to his diplomatic passport? Is it still considered valid (in case some future president requests that he go on some sort of diplomatic mission)? Is it considered expired, but he can hold on to it? Or should he have turned it in?
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:18 PM   #60
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Quote:
On the other hand, the mishandling of classified documents issue is pretty straight forward... "Were these documents in your possession? Yes. Can you point to the paperwork showing you were allowed to have them? No. We rest our case". The only thing that MIGHT save Trump in that case is if they hold the trial in Florida, where they have more MAGAchud voters who could get on the jury.
I seriously doubt it would take place in Florida.

The crime was actually committed in the Washington DC jurisdiction during the time when The Fat Orange Turd resided there. For example, if a crime such as a bank robbery took place in DC, the trial would be held in DC, not in Florida where the perpetrator was found in possession of the money.
I agree that if a trial does occur, it will be held in Washington. But, its possible Trump might submit a "change of venue" request, and if he gets a sympathetic judge (e.g. one that was nominated by Trump himself) they might just accommodate him.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:35 PM   #61
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 26,713
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I agree that if a trial does occur, it will be held in Washington. But, its possible Trump might submit a "change of venue" request, and if he gets a sympathetic judge (e.g. one that was nominated by Trump himself) they might just accommodate him.
Portland would be glad to host the trial. Or Seattle. Or LA. Or Honolulu.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:42 PM   #62
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Quote:
I agree that if a trial does occur, it will be held in Washington. But, its possible Trump might submit a "change of venue" request, and if he gets a sympathetic judge (e.g. one that was nominated by Trump himself) they might just accommodate him.
Portland would be glad to host the trial. Or Seattle. Or LA. Or Honolulu.
I'm not sure exactly what the rules are, but I suspect there probably has to be a rational reason for selecting a trial location... where the crime occurred, somewhere adjacent (if it is deemed an unbiased jury cannot be selected), where the defendant resides. I don't think Portland/Seattle/etc. would have a reason to be selected as a location.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:47 PM   #63
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 26,713
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Would the diplomatic one be considered "valid"?

I have friends that worked for various governments, and they often get special passports to use on government business. I assume Trump's "Diplomatic" passport is similar (i.e. to use when he is on presidential business).

But since he is no longer president, what happens to his diplomatic passport? Is it still considered valid (in case some future president requests that he go on some sort of diplomatic mission)? Is it considered expired, but he can hold on to it? Or should he have turned it in?
According to Newsweek:

Quote:
Although one of those passports is expired, it is not uncommon for presidents and some government workers to have more than one passport.

Trump's passports were not listed among the itemized property receipt that was unsealed on Friday at the request of the Justice Department, but they may have been inside one of the 26 boxes that were described as being seized by FBI agents. An FBI spokesperson declined Newsweek's request for comment.
I would think he'd keep his passports somewhere more easily accessible by him than a box in the basement.


Quote:
The United States issues different types of passports, including diplomatic passports that are granted to a person who travels abroad to carry out duties on behalf of the federal government.

While those passports cannot be used for leisure travel, presidents are allowed to keep those passports even after leaving office. Because these black-covered passports are only valid for five years, it is likely this is Trump's expired one.

This type of passport is only valid for diplomatic work purposes, so it is encouraged for these passport holders to also have a regular, tourist passport—the blue-covered books most Americans have—which would mark Trump's second passport.

The third passport that Trump may be mentioning is either the maroon-covered "official" passport that is granted to U.S. Government officials or a foreign passport, although it is unclear if the former president holds dual citizenship to another country.

The "official" passports are typically issued to Americans going abroad for U.S. government service but who are not in the diplomatic corps, like active-duty military service members and their families.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:48 PM   #64
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 26,713
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I'm not sure exactly what the rules are, but I suspect there probably has to be a rational reason for selecting a trial location... where the crime occurred, somewhere adjacent (if it is deemed an unbiased jury cannot be selected), where the defendant resides. I don't think Portland/Seattle/etc. would have a reason to be selected as a location.
I was being tongue in cheek. Both are very much anti-Trump cities.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 02:52 PM   #65
Jimbo07
Illuminator
 
Jimbo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,230
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I would think he'd keep his passports somewhere more easily accessible by him than a box in the basement.
That's where I keep mine! I mean, it's a locked fire box, but it's still a box in the basement!
__________________
This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group.

Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key
Jimbo07 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 03:00 PM   #66
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 26,713
Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
That's where I keep mine! I mean, it's a locked fire box, but it's still a box in the basement!
What was your address again?

I keep mine in a locked firebox, too. I don't have a basement. Too high water levels here.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 03:26 PM   #67
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,596
Indeed, Trump's passports were in his boxes that he took from the WH????

********.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 03:28 PM   #68
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 26,713
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Indeed, Trump's passports were in his the Archives' boxes that he took from the WH????

********.
FTFY
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 04:01 PM   #69
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 12,366
Donny probably has way more than three passports. Most of them won't be American. Not that it matters. As I said in a parallel thread, he will just get on a private flight to Escapeistan and "sort out the niceties of entry when he gets there".
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 04:22 PM   #70
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,943
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post

NOT indicting him would have far worse consequences than anything the MAGA crowd could throw at us.
He must be indited or the democracy in the USA will fall - in my opinion.

He is a mortal danger not only to the USA. If the US would fall into a civil war China, Russia and others would feel embolden to attack (some already are) and in time this might lead to a nuclear war or a massive world wide conventional war, perhaps even the use of biological and chemical weapons.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 05:23 PM   #71
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,596
Good number of votes, vast majority of 70% say Trump will be indicted.

Should be a very interesting 2.5 years
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 06:02 PM   #72
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 27,076
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I said it before, if this doesn't end in a raging thunderstorm, Trump on the roof of the White House with a gun to Nancy Pelosi's head, illuminated by a police spotlight, screaming into the wind for a briefcase full of unmarked bills and a chopper to fly him to a non-interdiction country this whole thing is going to feel anticlimactic.

Oh and the White House has to be on fire.
And Fox News reporting on something else while it happens.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 06:09 PM   #73
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,234
Regardless of if he is or is not, we need to be working towards a system that would indict him. So many of his crimes are clear cut from just the publicly available information that a system which essentially requires him to admit to the crime in writing because he has money and followers is a system that is drastically broken.

He's shown some of the flaws in our justice system to the point it's damn near proof it's rigged for the wealthy. No one should be able to get out of paying contractors like he did. No one should be able to try to extort a foreign power with government action for political gain. No one should be able to take money and gifts from foreign powers and businesses without Congressional approval. These are things he clearly, unambiguously, did. Ones insistence they believe those things were legal or correct shouldn't be a shield to obviously bad-faith actions.

It's madness.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 07:36 PM   #74
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
 
gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,305
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I agree that if a trial does occur, it will be held in Washington. But, its possible Trump might submit a "change of venue" request, and if he gets a sympathetic judge (e.g. one that was nominated by Trump himself) they might just accommodate him.
Seems like Trump-nominated judges aren't necessarily reliable to be unethical for him. As shown during the election cases and the approval of the raid itself.
__________________

gnome is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 07:51 PM   #75
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31,029
Rumor has it that longtime Trump Corporation CFO Alan Weisselberg is making a plea deal with the Manhattan DA. You have to wonder if that changes the dynamics on Trump?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 08:00 PM   #76
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Rumor has it that longtime Trump Corporation CFO Alan Weisselberg is making a plea deal with the Manhattan DA. You have to wonder if that changes the dynamics on Trump?
I posted about that in the 'criminal charges against Trump' thread.

I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Current rumors are that the plea deal won't involve him testifying, so they'll be in pretty much the same boat as they were before.

(Not that I don't think Trump could get caught up in some of the other investigations... just that the current Manhattan DA seems to be a bit wimpy when it comes to dealing with Trump.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 08:18 PM   #77
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31,029
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I posted about that in the 'criminal charges against Trump' thread.

I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Current rumors are that the plea deal won't involve him testifying, so they'll be in pretty much the same boat as they were before.

(Not that I don't think Trump could get caught up in some of the other investigations... just that the current Manhattan DA seems to be a bit wimpy when it comes to dealing with Trump.)
It does seem that way. But Weisselberg has to be giving them something. Let's say Trump doesn't get indicted criminally but Weisselberg gives them enough to destroy the Trump business. Or he provides evidence of Russian collusion. Weisselberg probably knows more than anyone else.

Even if it doesn't look that way.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 08:45 PM   #78
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,926
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Current rumors are that the plea deal won't involve him testifying, so they'll be in pretty much the same boat as they were before.
Testifying at all or testifying against Trump? There is an intermediate situation that he will testify in the upcoming trail against the Trump Organization.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 11:25 PM   #79
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Quote:
I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Current rumors are that the plea deal won't involve him testifying, so they'll be in pretty much the same boat as they were before.
It does seem that way. But Weisselberg has to be giving them something.
Not necessarily. The prosecutors could be making a deal just for the "guaranteed win", or to free up resources and save the cost of a trial.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th August 2022, 11:30 PM   #80
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,066
Re: Weisselberg plea deal...
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Quote:
Current rumors are that the plea deal won't involve him testifying, so they'll be in pretty much the same boat as they were before.
Testifying at all or testifying against Trump? There is an intermediate situation that he will testify in the upcoming trail against the Trump Organization.
To be honest, I don't know. A deal hasn't even been formally reached, and details are still very sketchy. All I have seen is a reference that he won't testify directly against Trump.

It is certainly possible that he could testify against the Trump organization while not testifying against Trump himself. It would be a rather unusual test of loyalty though... he's still "hurting" trump because he would be hurting the business (even if he doesn't testify against Trump himself).
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:12 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.