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Old 24th August 2022, 10:53 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I think he is pointing out just how unacceptable off-the-rails teaching is.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So that concept should at least be a common ground.
So what off-the-rails instruction is going on in schools?
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Old 24th August 2022, 10:53 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And experiment over, the results speak for themselves.

You got that right.
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Old 24th August 2022, 10:55 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what off-the-rails instruction is going on in schools?

Oh, nothing that would bother a liberal who wants to characterize America as based upon evil, and normalize/promote social concepts that are freakish.
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Old 24th August 2022, 10:56 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what off-the-rails instruction is going on in schools?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh, nothing that would bother a liberal who wants to characterize America as based upon evil, and normalize/promote social concepts that are freakish.
Substance please.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:00 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Substance please.

I am not trying to waste my time convincing the members of this church that their beliefs are wrong...that is a lost cause, and this is their house of worship.

The important thing we have agreed upon is that off-the-rails teaching is real, and unacceptable.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:02 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh, nothing that would bother a liberal who wants to characterize America as based upon evil, and normalize/promote social concepts that are freakish.
Who is teaching that America was based upon evil?

Please, an answer other than "libruls" would be appreciated. I'd like specific examples.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:05 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Substance please.
See post # 99, above.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:09 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Substance please.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am not trying to waste my time convincing the members of this church that their beliefs are wrong...that is a lost cause, and this is their house of worship.

The important thing we have agreed upon is that off-the-rails teaching is real, and unacceptable.
You say that not accepting off-the-rails instruction is "common ground".

But when asked to identify such being taught in the public schools you say you are busy.

I suspect you really don't know what is being taught in the country's public schools and therefor can't answer.

The curriculum of the public schools (your local one in particular) is not unknowable.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:13 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You say that not accepting off-the-rails instruction is "common ground".

Are you disputing this is a common ground? That off-the-rails instruction is unacceptable? Or, are you characterizing that only conservatives resort to such things in practicality?

I am not going to turn this into a debate of specific subject matter, which is what I think you want.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:18 AM   #130
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I think Warp12 is just derailing the thread from the nonsense that DeSantis is doing in Florida. He's trying to introduce a "both sides do it" claim into the discussion. He's essentially saying that DeSantis is correct in undoing the liberal agenda that doesn't exist in the curriculum while trying not to appear that he's defending DeSantis agenda of turning public education into right-wing indoctrination.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:29 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
See post # 99, above.
Well played.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:32 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
He's essentially saying that DeSantis is correct in undoing the liberal agenda that doesn't exist in the curriculum while trying not to appear that he's defending DeSantis agenda of turning public education into right-wing indoctrination.
By instructing teachers to teach things that are objectively false. It's not a matter of bias or opinion what the Confederates were fighting for. It's not a matter of opinion whether the US is based on Christian Nationalism principles.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:34 AM   #133
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One luxury enjoyed by every generation is to look back and laugh at the silly things their predecessors did and believed. Accordingly, I try to shape my beliefs by imagining what stupid things we're doing now that will amuse and perplex our descendants. It's a dicey proposition at best, as is anything that involves predicting the future. Nevertheless, there are several things I suspect will be true.

For instance, I have a hard time believing future generations will conclude Trump actually won the 2020 election, nor do I believe that they will have a great deal of sympathy for those currently trying to make political capital from that claim. I don't think they'll discover global warming is a hoax, and that it was a good thing we denied it and delayed measures to address it. I don't think future generations will laud our efforts to install more Christian ideals into the US government and educational system, and in the process make things more difficult for anyone who isn't white, male, and straight. I believe it's highly unlikely that the likes of Qanon and Alex Jones will someday be considered heroes.

Predicting what the future will make of a recent presidency is an especially iffy enterprise. But considering the Trump administration's close association with the preceding issues, there's a good chance it won't be very favorable. Similarly I can't be sure how our anti-immigration efforts will pan out. But based on our history, we've generally opposed immigration movements in the moment but subsequently ended up looking more favorably on them in retrospect (hell, the freaking Statue of Liberty itself sports a paean to immigration). As for abortion, I have no idea really -- but I do think it's likely that the USA will grow increasingly out of step with the rest of the world on that topic.

I could be wrong about a lot of this, of course. But I think it's reasonable to ask, what side of history do I really want to be on? And right now, it very much isn't with the collection of abominated ideals that comprise US conservatism, nor with the Republican party that supports this agenda.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:37 AM   #134
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Yes this is the point I keep making. Whine about "bias" doesn't change the fact that some things are just factually wrong.

"Factually wrong" remember that? Before everything wrong was just "a bias."

America has a racist past. The Civil War was about slavery. Evolution happens. Climate Change is real and man-made. These are all facts, agreeing they are facts is not a bias, it's just not choosing to be intentionally and proudly wrong because the world is leaving you behind and the only reaction your tiny brain can come up with in response is to put on a giant performance art routine of being the most horrible person imaginable.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:52 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You say that not accepting off-the-rails instruction is "common ground".
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Are you disputing this is a common ground? That off-the-rails instruction is unacceptable?
No

Quote:
Or, are you characterizing that only conservatives resort to such things in practicality?
No

Quote:
I am not going to turn this into a debate of specific subject matter, which is what I think you want.
So we have common ground, but you just don't want to talk about it.

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Old 24th August 2022, 11:59 AM   #136
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Delete double post

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Old 24th August 2022, 12:21 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Well played.
Played? Why, Doctor, I think I or you should nominate post # 99 for a special language award: Most Humane Abstension From Tro

No. I won't say that word. It makes baby conservatives cry.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:36 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I think Warp12 is just derailing the thread from the nonsense that DeSantis is doing in Florida. He's trying to introduce a "both sides do it" claim into the discussion. He's essentially saying that DeSantis is correct in undoing the liberal agenda that doesn't exist in the curriculum while trying not to appear that he's defending DeSantis agenda of turning public education into right-wing indoctrination.
A common conservative tactic is using an example of their side doing some bad thing as evidence that we should stop liberals from doing some other thing.

A conservative teacher was teaching religion in science class? See, that's proof that DeSantis is right to ban teaching about real historical facts in history!

It doesn't make sense, it doesn't have to. It just has to get a reaction from the libs.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:39 PM   #139
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One of the key tentpoles of the post-fact world is the idea that being factually correct shouldn't give one side an "unfair" advantage over the other.

That's why every Republican talking point is "The Democrats get to tell children facts, therefore if you don't let us lie to them it's unfair."

Now for this to work you have to reject the concept of a fact and the Republicans have certainly done that, but you also have to adopt a toxic personality that makes the simple of talking to you so unpleasant nobody wants to do it.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:42 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So you can obviously see how off-the-rails teaching and influence is unacceptable.
We can also see your continuing failure to provide the requested examples of "freakish liberal ideals and beliefs being pressed on children".
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:43 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh, nothing that would bother a liberal who wants to characterize America as based upon evil, and normalize/promote social concepts that are freakish.
Fixed it for you.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:52 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am not trying to waste my time convincing the members of this church that their beliefs are wrong...that is a lost cause, and this is their house of worship.

The important thing we have agreed upon is that off-the-rails teaching is real, and unacceptable.
I think we can fix this one, too.

"I am... trying to... flail my arms around and shout 'won't someone please think of the children?' in the lame hope that no one will see that I've clearly been parroting right wing bellyfeel that I can't now justify with evidence.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:55 PM   #143
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Also you can't do that AFTER you also made the "Children? Who cares I'll be dead" argument when discussing the environment.

Again you can't loudly adopt the persona of someone who doesn't care about anyone and then play the sympathy card.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:00 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also you can't do that AFTER you also made the "Children? Who cares I'll be dead" argument when discussing the environment.

Again you can't loudly adopt the persona of someone who doesn't care about anyone and then play the sympathy card.

Oh god, now this is morphing into a climate change debate. That debate is about 10 layers deep, friend. Start a new thread.

At least agree that from a teaching/curriculum standpoint, going off the rails is unacceptable. Liberal or conservative. And that there should be legislation that protects such from occurring.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:00 PM   #145
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Another thing the Trump party is railing against is "being woke." I mean.. really?

Doesn't being woke mean treating people with respect and equitably? They're not even hiding the fact that they like racism, homophobia and other forms of bigotry anymore.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:02 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh god, now this is morphing into a climate change debate. That debate is about 10 layers deep, friend. Start a new thread.

At least agree that from a teaching/curriculum standpoint, going off the rails is unacceptable. Liberal or conservative. And that there should be legislation that protects such from occurring.
What does this have to do with what DeSantis is doing to public education in Florida?
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:03 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
We can also see your continuing failure to provide the requested examples of "freakish liberal ideals and beliefs being pressed on children".

Trying to teach children that gay people are human beings worthy of rights and respect?
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:04 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
At least agree that from a teaching/curriculum standpoint, going off the rails is unacceptable. Liberal or conservative. And that there should be legislation that protects such from occurring.
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
What does this have to do with what DeSantis is doing to public education in Florida?

Huh?
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:04 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Trying to teach children that gay people are human beings worthy of rights and respect?
This is "woke" education and wrong in the views of Republicans.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:06 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh god, now this is morphing into a climate change debate. That debate is about 10 layers deep, friend. Start a new thread.

At least agree that from a teaching/curriculum standpoint, going off the rails is unacceptable. Liberal or conservative. And that there should be legislation that protects such from occurring.
No it's just reaffirming the point that the internet persona you have adopted's entire personality is defending a political party that is wrong about literally everything and is putting on a big fake show that nobody actually buys of not understanding why he doesn't get the same thing that people who are not intentionally wrong get.

Democrats get to teach things in schools because they aren't literally wrong about everything.

Republicans do not because they are literally wrong about everything.

This is not unfair or "bias" or an agenda.

Climate change is real, so it gets taught in schools.

America's racist past is real, so it gets taught in schools.

Evolution is real, so it gets taught in schools.

"White are the real victims" and "No the slaves loved being slaves" and "God did it with magic" are all lies, so they don't get taught in schools.

This is a simple concept, one that you understand as well as I do, you just put on the persona of someone who doesn't as part of your act.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:15 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh god, now this is morphing into a climate change debate. That debate is about 10 layers deep, friend. Start a new thread.

At least agree that from a teaching/curriculum standpoint, going off the rails is unacceptable. Liberal or conservative. And that there should be legislation that protects such from occurring.
So what do you specifically propose?

Substance, please.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:16 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No it's just reaffirming the point that the internet persona you have adopted's entire personality is defending a political party that is wrong about literally everything and is putting on a big fake show that nobody actually buys of not understanding why he doesn't get the same thing that people who are not intentionally wrong get.

Democrats get to teach things in schools because they aren't literally wrong about everything.

Republicans do not because they are literally wrong about everything.

This is not unfair or "bias" or an agenda.

Climate change is real, so it gets taught in schools.

America's racist past is real, so it gets taught in schools.

Evolution is real, so it gets taught in schools.

"White are the real victims" and "No the slaves loved being slaves" and "God did it with magic" are all lies, so they don't get taught in schools.

This is a simple concept, one that you understand as well as I do, you just put on the persona of someone who doesn't as part of your act.

The above is practically a personal attack, suggesting that I am misrepresenting myself as being a conservative. Essentially you are calling me a liar.

Conservatives are real, you know. And they are not mostly the demonized group as depicted by resident libs. Most are very decent people that just don't ascribe to a liberal view of the world.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:17 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
At least agree that from a teaching/curriculum standpoint, going off the rails is unacceptable. Liberal or conservative. And that there should be legislation that protects such from occurring.
What is it with "conservatives" and their insistence that there should be laws against all these things that aren't happening? Like, how many things that you imagine might happen but really don't should there be laws against? And how the heck would legislatures have time to write all these laws you claim we need against anything and everything you can imagine might happen in some alternate universe?
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:18 PM   #154
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A poll somewhere made the news, well, FaceBunk, saying that DeSnotties would trounce Trumph if the
Replcns held their convention now. So his transparent little plan is working, at least by some measures.

The same story also had Biden rolling over The New Huey Long in the election.

Snare the Wealth. Every Man a Gink.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:18 PM   #155
arayder
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The above is practically a personal attack, suggesting that I am misrepresenting myself as being a conservative. . ..
What are you?
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:19 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
What are you?

I am a conservative. I am not adopting the "persona" of one, as JoeMorgue contends.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:21 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The above is practically a personal attack, suggesting that I am misrepresenting myself as being a conservative. Essentially you are calling me a liar.
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon to get to "essentially" calling you a liar?

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Conservatives are real, you know. And they are not mostly the demonized group as depicted by resident libs. Most are very decent people that just don't ascribe to a liberal view of the world.
Trolls are real, as well. They also claim not to ascribe to a "liberal" view of the world. Oddly enough, they refuse to describe that "liberal" view that they rant about as well....

hey, wait a minute...
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:26 PM   #158
arayder
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The above is practically a personal attack, suggesting that I am misrepresenting myself as being a conservative. . .
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
What are you?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am a conservative. I am not adopting the "persona" of one, as JoeMorgue contends.
So the non-persona should be able to tell us exactly what "off-the-rails' educational practices you think we need to talk about.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:26 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
6 degrees of Kevin Bacon to get to "essentially" calling you a liar?



Trolls are real, as well. They also claim not to ascribe to a "liberal" view of the world. Oddly enough, they refuse to describe that "liberal" view that they rant about as well....

hey, wait a minute...

Another personal attack, certain to go unnoticed.
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Old 24th August 2022, 01:27 PM   #160
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Yes if any of this was a real concern you could put aside the act and explain what your issues are.

But you won't. Because you can't.

What are your "conservative" values? What do you think conservatives are doing to make the world a better place?
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