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Old 25th August 2022, 01:19 PM   #241
arayder
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Gentlefolks, I agree with your assessment of the hypocrisy of fixed political positions.

I am reminded of conservative congressmen who during, FRD's presidency, rolled over on the issue of government spending so as to assure that government work projects, roads, and dams were located in their districts.

We all know of liberal politicians who proclaim that they trust women to control their reproductive systems but can't conscience the idea of an adult with an automatic rifle.

Is this hypocrisy, or a question of degree, or a natural diversity of approach to complex problems?

There's the rub, eh?

Let me, also, point out that we are having this discussion without debate games or trolling?

Thank you.
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Old 25th August 2022, 01:21 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
We all know of liberal politicians who proclaim that they trust women to control their reproductive systems but can't conscience the idea of an adult with an automatic rifle.
Women don't shot up a classroom of children every 7 seconds in this country with their vaginas, next bad analogy please.

Again what's the point of this "Admit the Libs aren't perfect" routine?
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Old 25th August 2022, 01:33 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Couple with your inference that lying to the voters is right one has to question your sense of right and wrong.
In Maga world, winning = right. Losing = the other side is wrong.
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Old 25th August 2022, 01:42 PM   #244
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Smile

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
We all know of liberal politicians who proclaim that they trust women to control their reproductive systems but can't conscience the idea of an adult with an automatic rifle.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Women don't shot up a classroom of children every 7 seconds in this country with their vaginas, next bad analogy please.

Again what's the point of this "Admit the Libs aren't perfect" routine?
And women don't use their vaginas to keep wolves from the livestock, or put meat on the family table.

Do I meet your "next bad analogy" requirement?

Last edited by arayder; 25th August 2022 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 25th August 2022, 05:26 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
We all know of liberal politicians who proclaim that they trust women to control their reproductive systems but can't conscience the idea of an adult with an automatic rifle.
Wow! That's one of the dumbest analogies I've ever seen. And I say that without hyperbole.

Women are born with their reproductive systems, I might point out.

And who the **** needs an automatic rifle to put meat on the table? All the hunters I know strive to take a deer with one shot. And how often are wolves getting at the livestock? Are you communicating with us from the 18th Century? And do you really need more than a bolt-action hunting rifle, or a Winchester to protect the sheep and your family from all those wolves swarming the homestead?

Why stop at automatic rifles? "If a woman can be responsible for her own vajayjay, then I demand the right to shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles and towed artillery!"
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Old 25th August 2022, 05:51 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Why stop at automatic rifles? "If a woman can be responsible for her own vajayjay, then I demand the right to shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles and towed artillery!"

Definitely less loss of life under the latter scenario. Probably not a good topic of discussion to raise for this thread, as a piece of advice.
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Old 25th August 2022, 06:55 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Gentlefolks, I agree with your assessment of the hypocrisy of fixed political positions.

I am reminded of conservative congressmen who during, FRD's presidency, rolled over on the issue of government spending so as to assure that government work projects, roads, and dams were located in their districts.

We all know of liberal politicians who proclaim that they trust women to control their reproductive systems but can't conscience the idea of an adult with an automatic rifle.

Is this hypocrisy, or a question of degree, or a natural diversity of approach to complex problems?

There's the rub, eh?

Let me, also, point out that we are having this discussion without debate games or trolling?

Thank you.
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Wow! That's one of the dumbest analogies I've ever seen. And I say that without hyperbole.

Women are born with their reproductive systems, I might point out.

And who the **** needs an automatic rifle to put meat on the table? All the hunters I know strive to take a deer with one shot. And how often are wolves getting at the livestock? Are you communicating with us from the 18th Century? And do you really need more than a bolt-action hunting rifle, or a Winchester to protect the sheep and your family from all those wolves swarming the homestead?

Why stop at automatic rifles? "If a woman can be responsible for her own vajayjay, then I demand the right to shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles and towed artillery!"
With all do respect you don't seem to have any understanding of life in rural America. Your "shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles and towed artillery" line is just plain unknowledgeable.

You may know a few gentleman hunters who love their old bolt action guns, but auto rifles are what work and are the most available in the real world.

Auto rifles include a broad class of rifles beyond the "evil" AR-15. Many are commonly refer to as "ranch rifles". They allow for a faster second, follow up shot on the predator who is going to kill your live stock. When the lambs, the chickens and the eggs are gone you have to go to the store for food thus forcing you to send your kids to school with last year's old dirty, tight shoes.

Or maybe your wife gives herself a coat hanger abortion because she knows you can't feed another child?

You ever walked in this man's shoes?

Last edited by arayder; 25th August 2022 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 25th August 2022, 07:57 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
With all do respect you don't seem to have any understanding of life in rural America. Your "shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles and towed artillery" line is just plain unknowledgeable.

You may know a few gentleman hunters who love their old bolt action guns, but auto rifles are what work and are the most available in the real world.

Auto rifles include a broad class of rifles beyond the "evil" AR-15. Many are commonly refer to as "ranch rifles". They allow for a faster second, follow up shot on the predator who is going to kill your live stock. When the lambs, the chickens and the eggs are gone you have to go to the store for food thus forcing you to send your kids to school with last year's old dirty, tight shoes.

Or maybe your wife gives herself a coat hanger abortion because she knows you can't feed another child?

You ever walked in this man's shoes?
I've lived in rural America for many decades. And your description of what goes on here is laughably stereotypical and bears little resemblance to reality.
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Old 25th August 2022, 08:03 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
I've lived in rural America for many decades. And your description of what goes on here is laughably stereotypical and bears little resemblance to reality.
Oh, my best friend lived this reality for years.

Last edited by arayder; 25th August 2022 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:25 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
A lot of voters find his statement relatable...whether you do or not. Oh well.

A lot of voters find Putin's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Nick Fuentes' statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Jon Minadeo II's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Marjorie Taylor-Greene's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Lauren Boebert's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Paul Gosar's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Ted Cruz's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Enrique Tarrio's statements relatable.
A lot of voters find Ron Johnson's statements relatable.
A lot of voters are idiots.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:42 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I believe we might see that the libs were "digging their own holes", as you put it.
You believe a lot of things that have no supporting evidence which is why you often evade giving supporting examples of your claims.

Quote:
Instituted policy and election results will tell the story.
You mean like the one in Kansas this month, a red state, where the voters overwhelming voted not to allow the state legislature to ban abortion? Or this week's election in a NY swing district where the Dem running on a pro-choice freedom issue beat the Republican who was favored to win?

Even McConnell is saying the Dems could well keep control of the Senate now.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:43 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh, my best friend lived this reality for years.
Anecdotal Evidence: the Bane of reasoned debated since .. forever.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:45 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
It's kind of funny, in a sad way, that defending a conservative position is often indistinguishable from trolling.
Or living in a fantasy world.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:46 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Depends on your defintion of troll.
I think a Troll is somebody who posts crap because they get their jollies from the fuss they stir up. They want attettion, and don't care what kind of attention they get.
Warp12 over the past couple of weeks is being delibertly inflammatory in his or her comments in a way that makes be wonder if stirring up crap is the main motive rather then push a political view.
They aren't mutually exclusive, ya know.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:50 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
The philosophy of small government isn't necessarily wrong. But those who call themselves conservatives these days clearly don't believe in it. Smaller government does not mean interfering with female reproductive rights, or with rights based on sexual orientation, or favoring one religion's ideals over others. Hell, this very thread is about a conservative effort to expand government control over public education.

It would be more accurate to say that conservatives differ from liberals not in terms of the size of government, but rather the issues to which they believe the government should be applied.
Well said.
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Old 26th August 2022, 04:05 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
I've lived in rural America for many decades. And your description of what goes on here is laughably stereotypical and bears little resemblance to reality.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh, my best friend lived this reality for years.
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Anecdotal Evidence: the Bane of reasoned debated since .. forever.
Here's more. . .a lady who cleans houses in my neighborhood saw me outside working on the lawn just yesterday and asked if we needed our house cleaned.

She was desperate to get more cleaning work because opossums had killed all her chickens, which were a major food source for her family.

I asked if she had tried to trap the opossums and she said she and her husband had thought the traps were too expensive. Her plan was work hard, this time get some traps and then get more chickens.

You call it anecdotal evidence. I call it listening.

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Old 26th August 2022, 05:27 AM   #257
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I noticed you said "traps" and not "m-16s"
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Old 26th August 2022, 05:49 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
I noticed you said "traps" and not "m-16s"
Some animals are better trapped.

Some need to be shot.

My friend I mentioned in post 249 was dealing with feral hogs who were literally eating up his ranch.

There had been other predators around before but the hogs had taken over the environment. He was in the process of getting cattle, but at the rate things were going there wasn't going to be anywhere for them to live.

He and a few of his hunting buddies armed themselves with the kind of large caliber rifles one needs to put a hog down. Some were in the A-15 platform, but had larger calibers.

For a couple of years none of the hunters and a few local charitable organizations never bought a piece of meat because there was hog meat for everyone.

Eventually the hogs moved on.

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Old 26th August 2022, 05:55 AM   #259
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Okay I'm totally lost as to what gun control has to do with abortion.

There is an infinite number of Kevin Bacons between "Da guberment won't let me own a tank to control the local feral hog population" and "therefore Democrats are hypocrites for asking that women please not be seen as nothing but broodmares for the state."
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Old 26th August 2022, 06:04 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay I'm totally lost as to what gun control has to do with abortion.

There is an infinite number of Kevin Bacons between "Da guberment won't let me own a tank to control the local feral hog population" and "therefore Democrats are hypocrites for asking that women please not be seen as nothing but broodmares for the state."
One of the hogs that got shot was carrying baby hog.

Does that count?
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Old 26th August 2022, 06:06 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
One of the hogs that got shot was carrying baby hog.

Does that count?
Glibness is not an answer.
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Old 26th August 2022, 06:10 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Glibness is not an answer.
if you read backwards through the thread it makes sense.

My wanderin' thoughts don't need no travel permit.
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Old 26th August 2022, 06:26 AM   #263
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I am hearing from more people about DeSantis running in 2024 and I think 2 things:

1) FFS it's 2 years away. Can't I have at least a year without that nonsense?

2) Serious Scott Walker vibes from this dude
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Old 26th August 2022, 06:36 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
1) FFS it's 2 years away. Can't I have at least a year without that nonsense?
We haven't had that privilege for decades, now.
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Old 26th August 2022, 07:25 AM   #265
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I think there might have been a day back in the 50s when nobody was running for something. But I could be wrong.
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Old 26th August 2022, 07:27 AM   #266
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That is sort of the problem, especially with the House of Representatives. When you only serve 2 year terms you are pretty much never not campaigning.
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Old 26th August 2022, 07:37 AM   #267
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ya, but I haven't been flooded by their ads and at least they are actually campaigning. This nonsense about speculating who is running in 2024 started in 2019.
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Old 26th August 2022, 08:11 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
I am hearing from more people about DeSantis running in 2024 and I think 2 things:

1) FFS it's 2 years away. Can't I have at least a year without that nonsense?

2) Serious Scott Walker vibes from this dude
I think right now people are waiting to see how it all shakes out with Trump.

Things said today about the the former guy may come back to haunt whoever says them.

If Trump goes down the safe thing to say would be something along the lines of "it's time to move on" while at the same time aping all or most of Trump's substantive political stances.
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Old 26th August 2022, 10:15 AM   #269
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Whatever issues may arise from rural poverty (and trust me, no one disputes it exists, we only take exception with some of the more cartoonish caricatures invoked in its name to prove a point), the solution is not to limit the breadth and depth of public education.
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Old 26th August 2022, 10:34 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Whatever issues may arise from rural poverty (and trust me, no one disputes it exists, we only take exception with some of the more cartoonish caricatures invoked in its name to prove a point), the solution is not to limit the breadth and depth of public education.
Not to be argumentative but my old friend and the neighbor's cleaning lady are hardly "cartoonish caricatures".

One wonders if the folks around here glossing over the prevalence of and necessity for firearms in rural areas aren't the ones out of touch.

Present company excluded.
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Old 26th August 2022, 10:39 AM   #271
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Right because America is the only first world country with rural areas which is why every other country also has school shootings as often as my car needs oil changes.
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Old 26th August 2022, 10:54 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Not to be argumentative but my old friend and the neighbor's cleaning lady are hardly "cartoonish caricatures".
Cut the crap. No one said that. It was your implication that we're all a bunch of gun totin' AK-15-lovin' rednecks who gotta go out and shoot our supper every night that I question. (Perhaps that wasn't your intent, but I'm kind of sick of the stereotype.)

Quote:
One wonders if the folks around here glossing over the prevalence of and necessity for firearms in rural areas aren't the ones out of touch.
I agree guns are important out here -- hell, I've owned them myself. But the NRA does not give a flying fig about us. Their market is the urban gunslinger and weekend warrior whose self-worth is defined by how many weapons they own that serve no useful purpose other than to kill a whole lot of people in a short amount of time. When people discuss gun control, that's the crowd they're usually talking about -- not me picking off the porcupine ravaging my peach tree.

Quote:
Present company excluded.
Ah, OK, thank you for that anyway.
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Old 26th August 2022, 11:24 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Not to be argumentative but my old friend and the neighbor's cleaning lady are hardly "cartoonish caricatures".
Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Cut the crap. No one said that. It was your implication that we're all a bunch of gun totin' AK-15-lovin' rednecks who gotta go out and shoot our supper every night that I question. (Perhaps that wasn't your intent, but I'm kind of sick of the stereotype.).
No, that is not my implication. But there are people who need to hunt to feed their families. There are people who need to keep predators off their property.

Some folks just want to live that way.

That doesn't make then ignorant rednecks. And their needs shouldn't be ignored.

Not every auto rife is an AR-15 and everywhere I know of it's illegal to hunt with auto rifles using a magazine in excess of 5 rounds.

Hunters have to have licenses and must use an sufficiently sized round for the game they are hunting. The .223 rarely qualifies for large game.

So there goes the you-don't-need-a-battle-rifle-to-hunt argument.

Again, no offense intended.

Edit: And I'll be honest. ..I don't think the Democratic Party gets this. . .hence my original post on the subject.

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Old 26th August 2022, 11:36 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Right because America is the only first world country with rural areas which is why every other country also has school shootings as often as my car needs oil changes.
And you think banning hunting rifles will help?
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Old 26th August 2022, 11:37 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
And you think banning hunting rifles will help?
I'm saying literally every other country of comparable advancement has figured this out. Nothing you can counter will change that basic fact.

Australia doesn't have mass shootings every other 3 seconds and it has wildlife and rural areas on a scale the United States can't dream of.
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Old 26th August 2022, 12:48 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
I am hearing from more people about DeSantis running in 2024 and I think 2 things:

1) FFS it's 2 years away. Can't I have at least a year without that nonsense?

2) Serious Scott Walker vibes from this dude
I feel your pain. Politicians are ALWAYS campaigning.

We need laws more like the UK's on this which limit campaigning to 25 working days, limits how much each candidate can spend, campaign ads are banned on commercial TV and radio, and broadcasters must give equal time to all major parties.
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Old 26th August 2022, 02:33 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm saying literally every other country of comparable advancement has figured this out. Nothing you can counter will change that basic fact.

Australia doesn't have mass shootings every other 3 seconds and it has wildlife and rural areas on a scale the United States can't dream of.
And we haven't banned hunting rifles at all. Hunting is a common pastime here, as is target shooting, etc. Just that we have strict gun controls across the board. And no constitutional right to guns, of course.
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Old 26th August 2022, 03:05 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The 4% claim is either true or it is false. If it's true then it is something kids should learn, if it's false it should not be taught. And I do love that you can almost hear the sadness in the teacher's voice as she says: "Which means," Segal concluded, "we're not that bad."

I can imagine how disturbing it must be to a teacher to have to conclude that America is not that bad.
If it's true I don't have a problem with it being taught, but the notion that it somehow makes slavery in the US "not as bad" is laughable.
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Old 26th August 2022, 04:09 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The 4% claim is either true or it is false. If it's true then it is something kids should learn, if it's false it should not be taught. And I do love that you can almost hear the sadness in the teacher's voice as she says: "Which means," Segal concluded, "we're not that bad."

I can imagine how disturbing it must be to a teacher to have to conclude that America is not that bad.
I know it's sometimes difficult to convey sarcasm effectively in print, but I can't be the only one to discern the sarcasm just dripping from that teacher's statement. She's clearly indicating that the teaching standard is meant to smooth over America's racist history.
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Old 26th August 2022, 07:52 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm saying literally every other country of comparable advancement has figured this out. Nothing you can counter will change that basic fact.

Australia doesn't have mass shootings every other 3 seconds and it has wildlife and rural areas on a scale the United States can't dream of.
Thanks for proving my point. If they meet certain conditions people in Australia (especially people like my rancher friend) can be licensed to own semi-auto loading rifles.

*
Quote:
Category C
Pump-action or self-loading shotguns having a magazine capacity of 5 or fewer rounds and semi-automatic rimfire rifles up to 10 rounds. Primary producers, farm workers, firearm dealers, firearm safety officers, collectors and clay target shooters can own functional Category C firearms. In Western Australia, Category C shotguns may be owned by sporting shooters who participate in practical shotgun competitions. However, this is generally limited to second-hand shotguns.

Category D
All self-loading centrefire rifles, pump-action or self-loading or lever-action shotguns[15] that have a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, semi-automatic rimfire rifles over 10 rounds, are restricted to government agencies, occupational shooters and primary producers.

Category H
Handguns can be owned for a number of "genuine reasons" including target shooting, occupational (security guard and prison guard), carrying on behalf of a junior, and official, commercial or prescribed purposes authorized by an Act or Regulation. For target shooters, a paid membership to an approved pistol club is mandated.
I guess they know what they are doing!

Somebody else noticed, too. . .

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And we haven't banned hunting rifles at all. Hunting is a common pastime here, as is target shooting, etc. Just that we have strict gun controls across the board. And no constitutional right to guns, of course.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia

Last edited by arayder; 26th August 2022 at 07:58 PM.
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