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Old 30th August 2022, 08:19 PM   #1
arayder
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Not on the Court House Steps?

Ok, here's a scenario. . .

Trump gets indicted for one of the many things he's being investigated for. . .January 6. . .Georgia election interference. . .the stolen secret files. . .whatever. . .

The case comes to trial and all the way there Trump cries foul on social media.

As the process starts the liberal media endlessly calls for Trump's conviction and jailing while the right media yells that it's all a sham.

Everyday's proceedings are endlessly hashed over by the media. It looks like the case is being tried, not in court, but on TV and on social media.

Jury members get doxed.

Somebody throws a brick at Trump's car.

Security for the prosecutor and his family gets breached a a bullet misses one of the family members by inches.

So how is this sesnario avoided? Better dealt with?

A gag order on the media? Ubber security?

Your thoughts. . .

Last edited by arayder; 30th August 2022 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 30th August 2022, 08:53 PM   #2
The Great Zaganza
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Unless Trump insists on a public appearance, he would be moved into and out of a courthouse covertly, as a matter of Secret Service protocol.
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Old 30th August 2022, 11:52 PM   #3
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The whole unhappy scene will be avoided by simply not indicting President Trump.

IMO none of the various charges will result in a single day in court.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:28 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The whole unhappy scene will be avoided by simply not indicting President Trump.

IMO none of the various charges will result in a single day in court.
And there goes even the slightest pretense that no one is above the law in the US.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:34 AM   #5
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He's getting indicted. You don't serve the former president a search warrant and then walk away. The DOJ wouldn't have cared about the special master if they weren't preparing for an indictment.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
He's getting indicted. You don't serve the former president a search warrant and then walk away. The DOJ wouldn't have cared about the special master if they weren't preparing for an indictment.
I agree. Which is why DJT is crapping his pants on Truth Social with over 60 posts or re-posts in less than 24 hours. He's re-posting such crazy nonsense as the claim that it was the FBI in conjunction with Antifa behind the Jan. 6 storming of the Capitol He's gone off the deep end big time.
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Old 31st August 2022, 05:46 AM   #7
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he'll spirit away in the night before he has to appear in court, after dropping all the dirt he has on his former allies in the GQP. He'll be on a plane to a non-extradition country when there is an accident similar to the one that some Trump Organization executives had in October of 1989.
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Old 31st August 2022, 05:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
He's getting indicted. You don't serve the former president a search warrant and then walk away. The DOJ wouldn't have cared about the special master if they weren't preparing for an indictment.
We impeached him twice and walked away.

We keep inventing new lines that can't be crossed and talking about them in hushed tones like the boogeyman.

He ordered a violent mob to assault the Capital and we impeached him twice.

There are no more lines to be crossed anymore unless we leave the political sphere and enter another one.
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Old 31st August 2022, 06:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We impeached him twice and walked away.



.
The "jury" in those impeachments (the Senate phase specifically) was composed of a large number of Republicans, who were highly biased and unlikely to convict regardless of whatever the evidence was.

In any court case, Trump will have to deal with a jury in which the prosecutor can filter out the MAGAchuds. (Not to mention the fact that Trump no longer has the protection offered by being a sitting president).

Pessimism is understandable based on past events but things are a bit different now

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Old 31st August 2022, 06:44 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And there goes even the slightest pretense that no one is above the law in the US.
Is there any pretense about that? Sure doesn't seem to be.
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Old 31st August 2022, 07:54 AM   #11
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Didn't Roger Stone hold a press conference immediately after he got convicted? I can't see Trump bypassing that opportunity for a literal call to arms.
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Old 31st August 2022, 08:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Ok, here's a scenario. . .

Trump gets indicted for one of the many things he's being investigated for. . .January 6. . .Georgia election interference. . .the stolen secret files. . .whatever. . .

The case comes to trial and all the way there Trump cries foul on social media.

As the process starts the liberal media endlessly calls for Trump's conviction and jailing while the right media yells that it's all a sham.

Everyday's proceedings are endlessly hashed over by the media. It looks like the case is being tried, not in court, but on TV and on social media.

Jury members get doxed.

Somebody throws a brick at Trump's car.

Security for the prosecutor and his family gets breached a a bullet misses one of the family members by inches.

So how is this sesnario avoided? Better dealt with?

A gag order on the media? Ubber security?

Your thoughts. . .
Tighter security for most issues. With a big enough push, security can be very tight:
Courthouse well inside a big cordon, with loading and unloading of vehicles done in underground parking garages.
Court moved to alternate, more secure facilities to better facilitate large cordons
Much of the proceedings being done remotely.

....and so on.

Doxxing the jury: Now that would be very hard to prevent. As it is, finding a jury that meets any definition of "impartial" will be very difficult. The end result will be the seating of some very incurious-low information people (you know, morons) and people who are not impartial at all but lie their way through the selection process.
Then they get doxxed anyway. That could be some sort of internal dox, where an extremist group gets the info, makes contact with the juror and applies pressure - and that's the sort of thing that might not be found out until after the trial. Sequestering the jury could help, but there seem to be four different largely unrelated criminal actions being investigated and each trial could drag on for months.
I really think jury tampering/bias will be the hardest issue to deal with in any attempt at actual prosecution.

Personally I don't think Trump will ever get convicted - but many of his lackeys and butt-kissers will be. If they have the evidence to prosecute then they should do so because the pushback against this sort of criminality is necessary, even if the defendant is too stringed up for any prosecution to actually untie all the legal complications and ties and such in addition to jury issues.
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Old 31st August 2022, 08:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
he'll spirit away in the night before he has to appear in court, after dropping all the dirt he has on his former allies in the GQP. He'll be on a plane to a non-extradition country when there is an accident similar to the one that some Trump Organization executives had in October of 1989.
That works for me.
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Old 31st August 2022, 08:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
he'll spirit away in the night before he has to appear in court, after dropping all the dirt he has on his former allies in the GQP. He'll be on a plane to a non-extradition country when there is an accident similar to the one that some Trump Organization executives had in October of 1989.
It's sad to speculate so but, based on the security risk created by the Mara-a-Lago mess, we can be reasonably certain that the intelligence community knows where Trump is all the times and monitors every phone, text, tweet or email out of Mara-a-Lago.

There is talk that Trump still has secret documents squirreled way. So why wouldn't' the intelligence community be all over him like orange on and orange?

So if he tried to leave my guess is the intelligence community will know.

My questions are:

Does the government have the authority keep him in the U.S.?

If so, has he been given the "don't leave town" warning from DOJ?

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Old 31st August 2022, 09:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Didn't Roger Stone hold a press conference immediately after he got convicted? I can't see Trump bypassing that opportunity for a literal call to arms.
I highly suspect that at the start of the trial he'll do what he did with the previous election - say it was rigged against him before it happens and he'll do the same in this situation. That he'll be 'wrongly convicted' and will call for his supporters to 'stand ready'.

When convicted he tell them to save the USA and him. There will be violence but not a CW.
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Old 31st August 2022, 09:08 AM   #16
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the government not only CAN keep him in the US, from a National Security POV one would argue that it has the obligation to keep him Stateside.
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Old 31st August 2022, 09:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
the government not only CAN keep him in the US, from a National Security POV one would argue that it has the obligation to keep him Stateside.

I suppose they could also let him go to Cuba. A very specific part of Cuba, of course.
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Old 31st August 2022, 09:40 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Tighter security for most issues. With a big enough push, security can be very tight:
Courthouse well inside a big cordon, with loading and unloading of vehicles done in underground parking garages.
Court moved to alternate, more secure facilities to better facilitate large cordons
Much of the proceedings being done remotely.....and so on.
That makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Doxxing the jury: Now that would be very hard to prevent. As it is, finding a jury that meets any definition of "impartial" will be very difficult. The end result will be the seating of some very incurious-low information people (you know, morons) and people who are not impartial at all but lie their way through the selection process.
Then they get doxxed anyway. That could be some sort of internal dox, where an extremist group gets the info, makes contact with the juror and applies pressure - and that's the sort of thing that might not be found out until after the trial. Sequestering the jury could help, but there seem to be four different largely unrelated criminal actions being investigated and each trial could drag on for months.
I really think jury tampering/bias will be the hardest issue to deal with in any attempt at actual prosecution.
Yeah, this would be a first, a new thing, in jury selection.

Suppose the authorities find jury tamperers in the early days of the trial and draw and quarter them (OK just jail them)?

Sends a message, eh?

Or maybe the folks who messed with witnesses to the January 6 Senate committee get put on a chain gang? Make 'em sing some of those old chain gang songs?

There's a message!

Quote:
Personally I don't think Trump will ever get convicted - but many of his lackeys and butt-kissers will be. If they have the evidence to prosecute then they should do so because the pushback against this sort of criminality is necessary, even if the defendant is too stringed up for any prosecution to actually untie all the legal complications and ties and such in addition to jury issues.
This (although much less earth shaking) reminds me of the mid civil war debate in the north about letting the confederate states back into the Union as slave holding states.

One side said, in effect, let's just forget all this slavery/state's rights/war/ stuff and be nice.

The other side said, in effect, we are not going to get anywhere until we settle this slavery stuff.

I vote for the latter. Fortune favors the bold.

Last edited by arayder; 31st August 2022 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 31st August 2022, 11:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cat Not Included View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And there goes even the slightest pretense that no one is above the law in the US.
Is there any pretense about that? Sure doesn't seem to be.
I refer you to:

1. The Jan.6 Committee
2. The NY investigations
3. The Georgia investigation
4. The DOJ/FBI investigations
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Old 31st August 2022, 12:24 PM   #20
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Don’t forget Trump will want months or years to prepare his defense.
And after about 14 or 15 months, he’ll fire all the lawyers and want another 14 or 15 months to start over.

An overweight, fast-food-addicted 76-year-old crank who believes even mild exercise shortens one’s life is certainly going to try to run out the clock.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Don’t forget Trump will want months or years to prepare his defense.
And after about 14 or 15 months, he’ll fire all the lawyers and want another 14 or 15 months to start over.

An overweight, fast-food-addicted 76-year-old crank who believes even mild exercise shortens one’s life is certainly going to try to run out the clock.
He'll probably violate bond repeatedly. He'll likely never go to jail for the charges themselves but he stands a fair chance posting to social media stuff that was discovered under seal and getting his bond revoked.

Or something like that.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:02 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
he'll spirit away in the night before he has to appear in court, after dropping all the dirt he has on his former allies in the GQP. He'll be on a plane to a non-extradition country when there is an accident similar to the one that some Trump Organization executives had in October of 1989.
Hey! That's my line!

ETA: I fantasise that a SEAL team raids Mar-a-Lago, red-dots him and puts one in his head. Then his body is buried at sea. The end.

Won't happen, of course.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
He'll probably violate bond repeatedly. He'll likely never go to jail for the charges themselves but he stands a fair chance posting to social media stuff that was discovered under seal and getting his bond revoked.

Or something like that.
This guy is nuts.

Most folks in his position would cop a plea and get a reduced penalty/sentence. He, at one time, maybe have could worked that angle since it's likely DOJ didn't really want to drag an ex-president into court. I use the past tense "didn't" because DOJ now has to figure that Trump will violate any plea agreement he makes.

The trouble is Trump's got this Roy Cohn thing in his head that won't let him step back from anything. When you add in his propensity for doing stupidly illegal things he ends up digging the hole deeper.

The end result is that he wouldn't be able to bully his way out of the situation because DOJ knows full well if they decline to prosecute he's just gonna' keep on doing what he's been doing and worse.

Last edited by arayder; 31st August 2022 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
This guy is nuts.

Most folks in his position would cop a plea and get a reduced penalty/sentence. He, at one time, maybe have could worked that angle since it's likely DOJ didn't really want to drag an ex-president into court. I use the past tense "didn't" because DOJ now has to figure that Trump will violate any plea agreement he makes.

The trouble is Trump's got this Roy Cohn thing in his head that won't let him step back from anything. When you add in his propensity for doing stupidly illegal things he ends up digging the hole deeper.

The end result is that he wouldn't be able to bully his way out of the situation because DOJ knows full well if they decline to prosecute he's just gonna' keep on doing what he's been doing and worse.
There is a whole thread about that . Some there say you cannot know that for sure .
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:16 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
This guy is nuts.

Most folks in his position would cop a plea and get a reduced penalty/sentence. He, at one time, maybe have could worked that angle since it's likely DOJ didn't really want to drag an ex-president into court. I use the past tense "didn't" because DOJ now has to figure that Trump will violate any plea agreement he makes.

The trouble is Trump's got this Roy Cohn thing in his head that won't let him step back from anything. When you add in his propensity for doing stupidly illegal things he ends up digging the hole deeper.

The end result is that he wouldn't be able to bully his way out of the situation because DOJ knows full well if they decline to prosecute he's just gonna' keep on doing what he's been doing and worse.
No, it's that if you let him get away with it, the next GQP president will do the same and much more, and this time they'll pull off the coup. Democracy in the U.S. will be done.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:21 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Don’t forget Trump will want months or years to prepare his defense.
And after about 14 or 15 months, he’ll fire all the lawyers and want another 14 or 15 months to start over.

An overweight, fast-food-addicted 76-year-old crank who believes even mild exercise shortens one’s life is certainly going to try to run out the clock.
The US legal system seems perfectly geared-up for this kind of strategy. Trump will die of natural causes before 'the system' is able to bring this legal mess to a conclusion.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Ok, here's a scenario. . .

Trump gets indicted for one of the many things he's being investigated for. . .January 6. . .Georgia election interference. . .the stolen secret files. . .whatever. . .

The case comes to trial and all the way there Trump cries foul on social media.

As the process starts the liberal media endlessly calls for Trump's conviction and jailing while the right media yells that it's all a sham.

Everyday's proceedings are endlessly hashed over by the media. It looks like the case is being tried, not in court, but on TV and on social media.

Jury members get doxed.

Somebody throws a brick at Trump's car.

Security for the prosecutor and his family gets breached a a bullet misses one of the family members by inches.

So how is this sesnario avoided? Better dealt with?

A gag order on the media? Ubber security?

Your thoughts. . .
Off with his head!

Why the US made a mistake in getting rid of the (English) monarchy.
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Old 31st August 2022, 04:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Off with his head!

Why the US made a mistake in getting rid of the (English) monarchy.
As you probably know the English have a really good system (IMHO) for controlling the press during trials.

Trial by Media: The Risks to Defendants of Differing US and UK Approaches.

Quote:
One area of particularly marked distinction between the jurisdictions is in the reporting of pretrial rulings. In the U.K., there is an automatic ban on reporting rulings made at pretrial hearings until after the conclusion of the trial. This ban can only be disapplied by the judge dealing with the matter, and only if it is in the interests of justice to do so. By contrast, in the U.S., the press generally has a right under the First Amendment to report on pretrial hearings. Judges can close pretrial proceedings to the public upon request by the prosecution and defense, but would need to make special findings on the record that the closure was necessary to preserve “higher” or “overriding” values, and the order would need to be narrowly tailored to serve those higher or overriding values.
-------------

https://www.kramerlevin.com/en/persp...pproaches.html
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Old 1st September 2022, 10:01 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Hey! That's my line!

ETA: I fantasise that a SEAL team raids Mar-a-Lago, red-dots him and puts one in his head. Then his body is buried at sea. The end.

Won't happen, of course.
Ya, I'm trying to avoid Elmore Leonard stye fan fiction. It's awfully tempting, though.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 06:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Hey! That's my line!

ETA: I fantasise that a SEAL team raids Mar-a-Lago, red-dots him and puts one in his head. Then his body is buried at sea. The end.

Won't happen, of course.
My fantasy is Trump shooting Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas over a golf cheating allegation and the Federalist Society disappears him.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 08:55 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
As you probably know the English have a really good system (IMHO) for controlling the press during trials.
....
"Controlling the press" is not something the U.S. government is allowed to do except in the rarest circumstances. Trials can go on for months, maybe even years in complex civil cases. Why shouldn't the public know what its judges and courts are doing?
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Old 2nd September 2022, 05:59 PM   #32
Thermal
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
he'll spirit away in the night before he has to appear in court, after dropping all the dirt he has on his former allies in the GQP. He'll be on a plane to a non-extradition country when there is an accident similar to the one that some Trump Organization executives had in October of 1989.
*and the locals, squinting at the dark horizon, say that you can see the lights back on at Epstein's Island*,
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Old 2nd September 2022, 07:15 PM   #33
Craig4
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He might knock back a jilted lover's cocktail or give a Beretta a blow job. I'm not sure he'll go to jail but that might be because he redecorates a wall at Mara Lard Ass with his own brains. It would look better than the decor the **** picked out himself.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:57 AM   #34
Stellafane
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I can imagine a Hoffa-esque exit. Then hard-core devotees will consider him a martyr and be willing to commit atrocities in his name, or they'll keep predicting he'll make a triumphant return some day to save us all. On the other side of the political fence, he'll serve as the boogeyman for the more paranoid who will be convinced he's still out there, pulling strings and calling shots from some secret lair, for the next 100 years. Come to think of it, Trump himself would probably be tickled pink at the prospect.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will speculate which public works project hides his remains. Maybe under a giant Welcome gate on the Mexico/Texas border?
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