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Old 11th September 2022, 03:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well, they are anti fascists. It's right there in the name. It's a frustrating identity to be anti-something that isn't an active threat. Kind of like identifying as anti Death Star. I mean, I would generally be anti Death Star but wouldn't spring for the spiffy t-shirt or anything.
To infer there are really fascists because there's a group devoted to opposing fascists is a bit silly. What we can reasonably say is that antifa claims that its enemies are fascists. Whether, of course, the people they act against are reasonably called fascists is another matter[1].

[1] In my humble opinion, at least some of the folks they're agin are reasonably called fascists, as I understand the term. I think the Charlottesville crowd was chock full of people that could be called fascists (and some very fine people, too, or so I hear).
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Old 11th September 2022, 03:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I can assure you that in my case, if there were no fascists anymore, I would not call myself an anti-fascist. What would be the point?
This argument is silly.

Those who dislike antifa aren't (usually?) aligned with fascists. They tend to think that antifa is a dangerous organization and that their targets aren't really fascist.

You can't use the existence of antifa to conclude there are fascists. (The oft-used argument that those who hate antifa are pro-fascist is even worse.)
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Old 11th September 2022, 03:47 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That would be fascists. So there would be fascists.
If they're not fascist, but have a tendency to move towards fascism, then they're fascists?

I think you're not merely opposed to fascists. You're also opposed to potential fascism. You should create antipofa.
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Old 11th September 2022, 03:49 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The they would soon be fascists.
"A tendency to move towards fascism" doesn't make becoming a full-blown fascist an inevitability. You can be opposed to such folks, but not because they're fascist or because they will inevitably become fascists.
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Old 11th September 2022, 04:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
To infer there are really fascists because there's a group devoted to opposing fascists is a bit silly. What we can reasonably say is that antifa claims that its enemies are fascists. Whether, of course, the people they act against are reasonably called fascists is another matter[1].

[1] In my humble opinion, at least some of the folks they're agin are reasonably called fascists, as I understand the term. I think the Charlottesville crowd was chock full of people that could be called fascists (and some very fine people, too, or so I hear).
Or turn it around: where do we see open antifa presence where there are not fascists? We kinda don't.

Eta: pretty sure that antifa is using a "spirit" kind of imterpretation of exactly what they mean by fascist. They oppose white nationalist/supremacist types, under the blanket term fascist. I don't think they are as big on definitions as they are with kicking the **** out of a specific type of *******.

(And before anyone asks whether we see antifa where there are not elephants, let's try the reasonable approach first)
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Old 11th September 2022, 04:58 PM   #46
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Here's a blast from the past, a heroic Antifa member braining a kneeling fascist:
(NSFW, language and violence).

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Old 11th September 2022, 05:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Or turn it around: where do we see open antifa presence where there are not fascists? We kinda don't.
Not sure if you are kidding or not; I don't think there are a lot of fascists in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco or Berkeley, but there sure seem to be a lot of antifa.
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Old 11th September 2022, 06:38 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I didn't say that the Nazis were left wing.
Because "left wing street violence" doesn't mean left wing.

Got it!
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Old 11th September 2022, 07:10 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Or turn it around: where do we see open antifa presence where there are not fascists? We kinda don't.

Eta: pretty sure that antifa is using a "spirit" kind of imterpretation of exactly what they mean by fascist. They oppose white nationalist/supremacist types, under the blanket term fascist. I don't think they are as big on definitions as they are with kicking the **** out of a specific type of *******.

(And before anyone asks whether we see antifa where there are not elephants, let's try the reasonable approach first)
I'm also pretty sure that many of the folks that antifa regards as fascists/nationalists/etc. would dispute that assessment. I don't think that a group aiming to attack fascists is necessarily an unbiased authority on who counts as a fascist.
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Old 11th September 2022, 07:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'm also pretty sure that many of the folks that antifa regards as fascists/nationalists/etc. would dispute that assessment. I don't think that a group aiming to attack fascists is necessarily an unbiased authority on who counts as a fascist.
Its not that hard.

- Only fascists are friends of fascists
- Only fascists support fascists

If you are at a table with several friends, and one of them is a Nazi, then everyone at the table is a Nazi, including you.

Likewise, if the people at a rally/protest march are carrying Kekistan flags, or Nazi flags, or Trump 2020 flags, or US flags being flown upside down, then that is a fascist rally, and if you are in the crowd supporting them, then you are a fascist as well.

Also, if you are with a group of people wearing T-shirts emblazoned with a Sonnenrad, or that say things like "6MWE" or "88" or "14 WORDS" then you are supporting fascists, and therefore you are also a fascist.
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Old 11th September 2022, 07:30 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Where as most murderers are inner city minoritys, so probably Democrats (if they think that deeply) then yes, there is lots of violence from the Left. Including Antifa and BLM.
Let me guess...Jan 6 was really an Antifa and BLM false flag operation, right?
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Old 11th September 2022, 07:31 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I think I can do a little better than those examples:

Japanese Red Army

Movements of the Japanese Red Army and the "Yodo-go" group
Really? You have to go to a Japanese Communist group that was active 50-20 years ago?
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Old 11th September 2022, 11:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Not sure if you are kidding or not; I don't think there are a lot of fascists in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco or Berkeley, but there sure seem to be a lot of antifa.
I live in Portland and I can assure you that we have our fair share of nationalist fascists outside the Portland Metro area. Eastern and rural OR is full of them and they came into Portland literally by the truck load to stir up trouble. The Proud Boys are fascists and many took part in the Jan6 insurrection. The Oath Keepers also came intent on causing problems and also took part in the Jan6 insurrection. Same for the Three-Percenters.

Hundreds clash in Portland as Proud Boys rally descends into violence

Portland, Oregon, Is Ground Zero for Violent Culture-War Clashes. And Itís Spreading
The Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and other far-right extremist groups have turned the city into a proving ground


These same fascist groups are in eastern and rural WA, too:

Olympia residents shaken by violence between groups allied with Antifa and Proud Boys
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Old 12th September 2022, 01:45 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Here's a blast from the past, a heroic Antifa member braining a kneeling fascist:
(NSFW, language and violence).

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Nope. It shows some unknown person wearing a black mask reaching out from behind an antifa protester and giving some guy of indeterminate persuasion a whack on the bonce with something flat. At which the person who was hit stood up and walked away. He didn't look "brained" to me, just surprised.

It is only you who has assigned these people their designations of "heroic Antifa member" and "kneeling fascist".

As for "braining" him, that implies there's a brain in your "fascist" which can be stunned.


Also, you cannot seriously believe that every black-masked protester doing bad stuff is an antifa thug? Surely you can't be peddling that line...
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:44 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nope. It shows some unknown person wearing a black mask reaching out from behind an antifa protester and giving some guy of indeterminate persuasion a whack on the bonce with something flat. At which the person who was hit stood up and walked away. He didn't look "brained" to me, just surprised.

It is only you who has assigned these people their designations of "heroic Antifa member" and "kneeling fascist".

As for "braining" him, that implies there's a brain in your "fascist" which can be stunned.


Also, you cannot seriously believe that every black-masked protester doing bad stuff is an antifa thug? Surely you can't be peddling that line...
That man was Eric Clanton,28, a Diablo Valley College professor who was charged for that attack and made a plea deal for 3 years probation and a “no contest” plea to one misdemeanor battery charge. Although there is no evidence Clanton belonged to Antifa, he definitely supported their ideology:
Quote:
Police wrote that they had found evidence last year during a search of Clanton’s home in San Leandro linking him to “Anti-Fascists and Anarchy political groups,” according to court papers. He was not home when police arrived, so officers moved to a second address in West Oakland where they said they found flags, patches and pamphlets “associating Clanton” with antifa and anarchist groups.Investigators arrested Clanton there.
The victim in the video was one of only 7 people Clanton attacked with a u-lock that day at the pro-Trump rally.

He was doxxed by 4-chan members who have made it their mission to out those they see as enemies: "an image of a 4chan discussion thread showed users organizing. “An anti-facism petition went around, which dumb lefties signed, and now we are digging up any info we can find on the people who signed it. … We can make a fun game since the list is so long.”

The left is not totally innocent of political violence and I condemn it as much as from the right. Saying that, the type of political violence we're seeing from the right is more dangerous and more frequent from the right. That is borne out from a recent study:

Quote:
Domestic terrorism incidents have soared to new highs in the United States, driven chiefly by white-supremacist, anti-Muslim and anti-government extremists on the far right, according to a Washington Post analysis of data compiled by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The surge reflects a growing threat from homegrown terrorism not seen in a quarter-century, with right-wing extremist attacks and plots greatly eclipsing those from the far left and causing more deaths, the analysis shows.

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Old 12th September 2022, 02:52 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That man was Eric Clanton,28, a Diablo Valley College professor who was charged for that attack and made a plea deal for 3 years probation and a “no contest” plea to one misdemeanor battery charge. He definitely supported Antifa:
The victim in the video was one of only 7 people Clanton attacked with a u-lock that day at the pro-Trump rally.

He was doxxed by 4-chan members who have made it their mission to out those they see as enemies: "an image of a 4chan discussion thread showed users organizing. “An anti-facism petition went around, which dumb lefties signed, and now we are digging up any info we can find on the people who signed it. … We can make a fun game since the list is so long.”

The left is not totally innocent of political violence and I condemn it as much as from the right. Saying that, the type of political violence we're seeing from the right is more dangerous and more frequent from the right. That is borne out from a recent study:
Thanks, and I fully agree.

What I object to is people assigning every black-masked rioter as "antifa" and "BLM". They are not. I don't know how many times this has been done, but it still seems apropos: An image of a bunch anti-fascist Americans, armed including with knives, having raided and killed their opponents in their homes and workplaces and streets, and now displaying what they looted from them. NSFW.

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Old 12th September 2022, 04:47 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Its not that hard.

- Only fascists are friends of fascists
- Only fascists support fascists

If you are at a table with several friends, and one of them is a Nazi, then everyone at the table is a Nazi, including you.

Likewise, if the people at a rally/protest march are carrying Kekistan flags, or Nazi flags, or Trump 2020 flags, or US flags being flown upside down, then that is a fascist rally, and if you are in the crowd supporting them, then you are a fascist as well.

Also, if you are with a group of people wearing T-shirts emblazoned with a Sonnenrad, or that say things like "6MWE" or "88" or "14 WORDS" then you are supporting fascists, and therefore you are also a fascist.
My brother is plainly racist. I still speak to him regularly. Were he a fascist, I would probably still speak to him. I don't think that would make me fascist.

But I get it. You reckon there's no nuance in finding fascists. I think it's a horrible accusation and one where care and nuance is required.
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Old 12th September 2022, 06:00 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Let me guess...Jan 6 was really an Antifa and BLM false flag operation, right?
Look someone has to get their white supremacist talking points in.
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Old 12th September 2022, 06:04 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The left is not totally innocent of political violence and I condemn it as much as from the right.
It just lacks the passive and active endorsement/collusion of the police. Which is why it is worse, because police endorsed violence is viewed much more positively.
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Old 12th September 2022, 06:06 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
My brother is plainly racist. I still speak to him regularly. Were he a fascist, I would probably still speak to him. I don't think that would make me fascist.

But I get it. You reckon there's no nuance in finding fascists. I think it's a horrible accusation and one where care and nuance is required.
Like all those who voted and joined the nazi party while not being explicitly fascist themselves. We forget about all the good people who were members of the nazi party, and smear them with the label of fascist too readily, just like they do with republicans.
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Old 12th September 2022, 06:22 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
My brother is plainly racist. I still speak to him regularly. Were he a fascist, I would probably still speak to him. I don't think that would make me fascist.

But I get it. You reckon there's no nuance in finding fascists. I think it's a horrible accusation and one where care and nuance is required.
Nobody (outside of the trolls who aren't in this discussion honestly and can therefore have their opinions mocked as the nonsense they are) is saying there is NO nuance.

But the old saying that if there's a Nazi at a table having "a civil debate" with someone else what you have is a table with two Nazis does have an air of truth to it as well.

What we tolerate and what we agree with aren't the same thing, but they... aren't completely different either. Of all the categories that have fuzzy edges this might have the fuzziest.

You can, honestly and deservingly, be judged for what you tolerate as much as what you embrace/agree with it.

Where does that put you exactly? I don't know. It depends how "fascist" your hypothetical brother is, how much and in what way you tolerate him, and a billion and one other factors.
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Old 12th September 2022, 09:11 AM   #62
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There will always be violence on the fringes and there will always be crazy people.

The examples of left wing violence posted here, in aggregate, are so weak it makes weak tea seem like toxic sludge.

Most importantly, the Democratic power structure doesn't support violence, in stark contrast to the MAGA neo fascist party (aka the GOP).
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Old 12th September 2022, 09:17 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
The examples of left wing violence posted here, in aggregate, are so weak it makes weak tea seem like toxic sludge
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Old 12th September 2022, 09:30 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Like all those who voted and joined the nazi party while not being explicitly fascist themselves. We forget about all the good people who were members of the nazi party, and smear them with the label of fascist too readily, just like they do with republicans.
See, the thing is that I doubt most of those antifa targets are literally card-carrying or self-identified fascists. They may be terrible folks, but that antifa targets them is not sufficient evidence that they're fascist in my book.

The argument we've seen goes like this: Antifa says they target fascists. Hence, anyone they target is a fascist. It is a silly argument.

Note: I'm not arguing over whether this or that person really deserves to be called a fascist. It's not a term I use, since it's not altogether clear to me what it means. The dictionary definition, which involves government control of a capitalist economy, is probably not essential to Antifa's definition (if the loosely knit organization has an actual definition at all).
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Old 12th September 2022, 09:35 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Nobody (outside of the trolls who aren't in this discussion honestly and can therefore have their opinions mocked as the nonsense they are) is saying there is NO nuance.

But the old saying that if there's a Nazi at a table having "a civil debate" with someone else what you have is a table with two Nazis does have an air of truth to it as well.

What we tolerate and what we agree with aren't the same thing, but they... aren't completely different either. Of all the categories that have fuzzy edges this might have the fuzziest.

You can, honestly and deservingly, be judged for what you tolerate as much as what you embrace/agree with it.

Where does that put you exactly? I don't know. It depends how "fascist" your hypothetical brother is, how much and in what way you tolerate him, and a billion and one other factors.
I'm not sure I agree that tolerance is all that indicative of one's character in the sense you suggest. I totally tolerate fascism, in the sense that I think Skokie was rightly decided. I also think that fascists are horrible people (and the plaintiffs in the Skokie case were undeniably fascists).
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Old 12th September 2022, 09:52 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'm not sure I agree that tolerance is all that indicative of one's character in the sense you suggest. I totally tolerate fascism, in the sense that I think Skokie was rightly decided. I also think that fascists are horrible people (and the plaintiffs in the Skokie case were undeniably fascists).
Well my opinion of the fact that I will never love a woman as much as "Free Speech Advocates" love Nazis is well established.

If you're "against something" but have some higher philosophical standard that makes you protect it all the time... *shrugs* then you're not against it.
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Old 12th September 2022, 09:59 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'm also pretty sure that many of the folks that antifa regards as fascists/nationalists/etc. would dispute that assessment. I don't think that a group aiming to attack fascists is necessarily an unbiased authority on who counts as a fascist.
Fair point. But when you have a group calling for "peaceful ethnic cleansing", or supporting ex-President Trump...a rose by any other name, yes?
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Old 12th September 2022, 11:59 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
If they're not fascist, but have a tendency to move towards fascism, then they're fascists?

I think you're not merely opposed to fascists. You're also opposed to potential fascism. You should create antipofa.
I'm against fascism, thus I'm against the structures that feed fascism. Fascism stems from certain types of nationalist conservatism. You can't get rid of fascism without getting rid of such conservatism.

So yes, I'm against fascists as well as potential fascists. We can see how quickly nationalistic conservatism leads to fascism in the US.
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Old 12th September 2022, 12:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
My brother is plainly racist. I still speak to him regularly. Were he a fascist, I would probably still speak to him. I don't think that would make me fascist.

But I get it. You reckon there's no nuance in finding fascists. I think it's a horrible accusation and one where care and nuance is required.
I'm sorry that your brother is racist.

I don't think the poster you quoted was talking about family dinners. I can only assume that if your brother was a fascist he would be estranged to you. I can sure as hell say as much of my brother.
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Old 12th September 2022, 12:09 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
See, the thing is that I doubt most of those antifa targets are literally card-carrying or self-identified fascists. They may be terrible folks, but that antifa targets them is not sufficient evidence that they're fascist in my book.

The argument we've seen goes like this: Antifa says they target fascists. Hence, anyone they target is a fascist. It is a silly argument.

Note: I'm not arguing over whether this or that person really deserves to be called a fascist. It's not a term I use, since it's not altogether clear to me what it means. The dictionary definition, which involves government control of a capitalist economy, is probably not essential to Antifa's definition (if the loosely knit organization has an actual definition at all).
Antifa normally don't target people, fascists or not. They show up to fascist gatherings and they attempt to shut those down. They show up to targets of fascist violence to stand in the way. When they do target individual people, it's by doxxing, letting the Nazis friends, family and place of work know who they are dealing with.

Antifa isn't a hit squad. More often than not it's local leftists mobilizing to kick bussed in fascists out of town.
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Old 12th September 2022, 12:22 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
My brother is plainly racist. I still speak to him regularly. Were he a fascist, I would probably still speak to him. I don't think that would make me fascist.
I said friends, not family.

Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
But I get it. You reckon there's no nuance in finding fascists. I think it's a horrible accusation and one where care and nuance is required.
No nuance is required.

If you support white supremacism then you're a fascist.
If you think the Holocaust was a good thing then you're a fascist.
If you display symbolism of the far right in any way other than academic then you're a fascist.
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Old 12th September 2022, 12:34 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'm not sure I agree that tolerance is all that indicative of one's character in the sense you suggest. I totally tolerate fascism, in the sense that I think Skokie was rightly decided. I also think that fascists are horrible people (and the plaintiffs in the Skokie case were undeniably fascists).

And there's your differences - two of them

1. You tolerate fascists - Antifa people do not!

2. You think fascists are horrible people but don't take action - Antifa people think fascists are horrible people but do take action.
.
.
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Old 12th September 2022, 12:45 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It just lacks the passive and active endorsement/collusion of the police. Which is why it is worse, because police endorsed violence is viewed much more positively.
Agreed. Law enforcement draws two distinctly different types of people: those that truly want to 'serve and protect' the people and those that are bullies, racists, and/or authoritarians who get off on the power. The former include the woman who became a police officer after police protected her abusive cop husband. She wanted to be for others the kind of officer she had needed and didn't get.(Gutsy Women w/ Hillary and Chelsea Clinton). The latter are cops like Derek Chauvin.
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Old 12th September 2022, 01:08 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And there's your differences - two of them

1. You tolerate fascists - Antifa people do not!

2. You think fascists are horrible people but don't take action - Antifa people think fascists are horrible people but do take action.
.
.
That's how I see it. Antifa do not take a refined and genteel philosophical position. They're the sledgehammer. Not much interest in historical minutiae. Just a simple "hey, the ******** are back in town. Lets give the mother ******* a hearty welcome"
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Old 12th September 2022, 01:48 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well my opinion of the fact that I will never love a woman as much as "Free Speech Advocates" love Nazis is well established.

If you're "against something" but have some higher philosophical standard that makes you protect it all the time... *shrugs* then you're not against it.
I don't think that Free Speech Advocates defend fascism all the time. They don't defend the ideas, but they do defend the rights of Nazis, Communists, Antifascists and so on to express their ideals in the public sphere.

I'm not, I think, a free speech absolutist. The recent years have shown the damage disinformation can cause. Nonetheless, I still think the right to express one's political views is important and broad --- broad enough to include Nazis marching in Skokie.

If you therefore infer that I love Nazis, well, have at it, but I don't think you can make it stick.
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Old 12th September 2022, 01:51 PM   #76
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A Houston woman has been arrested for leaving threatening messages to Judge Cannon. In them, the woman said she would assassinate the judge in front of her family. She definitely has mental problems.

Quote:
In the voicemails, [Tiffani] Gish threatened to have Cannon assassinated in front of her family for “helping” the former president, court documents say.

“Donald Trump has been disqualified long ago, and he’s marked for assassination. You’re helping him, ma’am,” Gish allegedly said one of the voicemails.

“He’s marked for assassination and so are you,” she said, according to court documents, telling Cannon to “stand the ***** down or get shot.”

In other messages, Gish, who identified herself on the messages as “Evelyn Salt,” said that she was “in charge of nuclear for the United States Government” and claimed that Trump had some responsibility for the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Quote:

Federal officials have seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats since the search at Mar-a-Lago last month, CNN has reported. Violent threats have surfaced online against Attorney General Merrick Garland, and the biography and contact information of the federal magistrate judge who signed the Mar-a-Lago search warrant had to be wiped from a Florida court’s website due to threats.

FBI officials also have reported an “unprecedented” number of threats and that individual agents involved in the search have faced doxxing attempts, law enforcement sources told CNN.

The violent threats have escalated on both sides. Trump has been, and is, the most polarizing American figure in modern history. I have to laugh when the GOP accuses Biden of that.
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Old 12th September 2022, 01:53 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Fair point. But when you have a group calling for "peaceful ethnic cleansing", or supporting ex-President Trump...a rose by any other name, yes?
I don't call all supporters of Trump fascists by any stretch. Many are self-deluded, insensitive clods. I was just speaking with an old college friend the other day. He supports Trump, but he's not a fascist by any stretch.

Those who advocate "peaceful ethnic cleansing" are clearly racist or xenophobic, reasonably called "white nationalists" I'd think. I wouldn't personally use the term fascist, because I think it stretches the term, but I usually wouldn't object when others use the term.

But I didn't really want to argue over what fascism is. I just objected to the notion that fascism is whatever Antifa's against and so if Antifa attacks you in some way, you must be a fascist. That's just a naive view.
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Old 12th September 2022, 01:55 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'm sorry that your brother is racist.

I don't think the poster you quoted was talking about family dinners. I can only assume that if your brother was a fascist he would be estranged to you. I can sure as hell say as much of my brother.
Were he a serious fascist, one who poses a physical threat to others, then yeah, I guess he would be estranged from me. That's a good point.

If he's a barroom fascist, all talk with no significant effect on others, I might still speak to him. Maybe I'm weak in that respect.
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:18 PM   #79
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This author agrees that MAGA are fascists:
Quote:
The cult of personality is the defining characteristic of fascism and the MAGA movement. Adolf Hitler posed, not as an elected leader, but as the embodiment of the collective will who knew best what his people needed. He scorned elections asserting his rise to power as de facto justification for the right to hold it indefinitely. “One people, one realm, one leader,” Hitler proclaimed.

Donald Trump has the same faith in his destiny and supreme self-confidence in his unique ability to rule. “I am your voice,” he told the Republican convention in 2016. “I alone can fix it. I will restore law and order.”

Fascism and MAGA ideology also share the same faith in big lies. Dictators and demagogues recognize no objectively verifiable facts. Truth is what they declare it to be. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,” Nazi propaganda minister Josef Goebbels declared, “people will eventually come to believe it.” Hitler claimed that Germany did not lose the First World War but had been “stabbed in the back” by Jews, Marxists and corrupt politicians. Trump insists he did not lose the 2020 election. Approximately 70 percent of Republicans believe him.

Both movements are racist and xenophobic. The Nazis envisioned a Volksgemeinschaft, or “national community,” comprised of pure Aryan Germans. Everyone else was an alien unworthy of citizenship. Jews, Roma and others ethnic minorities had to be expelled or exterminated. The Nazis designated the disabled and mentally ill as “life unworthy of living” or “useless eaters” and systematically murdered them. They labeled gay people as degenerates and sent them to concentration camps.

MAGA espouses a narrow definition of American identity. It insists the United States has always been and must remain a Christian nation. While some members of the movement openly embrace white supremacy, others use coded racism, railing against the unfair advantage affirmative action affords people of color.
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:22 PM   #80
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So, as for the last big Nazi show, we all stand back and stand by until the Nazis completely rip the masks off before dealing with them. Got it.

When the GQP next get to power we'll find out how many are at this moment Nazi adjacent. A hint was gleaned in '20, where their Fuhrer got even more votes after they had a full term to see what the Leader offered.
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