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Tags DeSantis , electioneering , florida , immigration

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Old 22nd September 2022, 06:12 PM   #441
arayder
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Well you're not wrong there. All these Holocaust and Nazi comparisons to what amounts to by far the easiest part of these migrants journey.
I know. . . let's set fire to The Capital and blame it on the Democrats who we'll round up and put in jail.

What? It's been done? Did it work?
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Old 22nd September 2022, 06:40 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I know. . . let's set fire to The Capital and blame it on the Democrats who we'll round up and put in jail.

What? It's been done? Did it work?
LoL wut
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Old 23rd September 2022, 05:45 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Normally, when someone says the end justifies the means, they mean that the end is noble enough that it outweighs the harm of the means. In this case, the end is purely selfish. If the end justifies the means in this case, then it justifies the means in every case in which the outcome is good for the actor.

In other words, if you think the end justifies the means here, then you're simply an egoist and to hell with other people to begin with.

The definition I always liked was "I know it's wrong but I did it anyway and don't want to face the consequences".
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Old 23rd September 2022, 06:54 AM   #444
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Not fair for all these migrants to become the burden of small border towns. Federal govt. should take them and distribute them around the country, so we all share the load and the work.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:11 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
We see, for the record, that the abuse of your fellow humans doesn't register as an issue with you.
In the mind of a racist, the non-whites do not count as "fellow humans."
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:21 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This just illustrates how silly this whining is. Even though they were flown to MA (how cool that must have been for these simple folk), they still have it like 100x better than they did in that dump of a country they came from. Hell, probably better than had they stayed in TX or FL. This is just a speedbump for them. And they are suing, lol.

Seems like everyone wins in the end.
Unless we deport them back. Then it's just a huge waste of their time (and teeth).
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Old 23rd September 2022, 07:22 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Sure. And the end justifies the means, thus far.
Appeal to people driven by spite, and all you get is a wreck of a country. As long as the people they hate are crying, right?
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Old 23rd September 2022, 08:29 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The governor doesn't have to wait. He can take the bull by the horns, charter a few bussed, head down to San Antonio and make his pitch. Well he can do that if he actually means that bit about boosting his state's productive population and isn't just virtue signaling. It's totally win-win.
I don't think our governor is obligated to do something out of the way and unusual in order to counter a stupid, and possibly illegal, action by another.

In any case, unless he intended to pay for it himself, he does not likely have the authority to charter buses, and may not have the legal authority to move people around either, nor to make promises that cannot be kept. He can say what he'd like to see happen, but that does not mean he has the legal authority or the legislative approval to make it happen.

e.t.a. Scott has come out in favor of VT law superseding ICE practices, and supporting the rights of immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, to immunity from harassment, supporting the extension of DACA rights, refusing to remove children from families at the border, and in favor of increasing VT's labor force, but I imagine he is not able to advocate for illegal immigration, nor to violate ICE practices in other states. He is, also, despite what many would consider some good and humane ideas on this subject, a Republican with conservative economic principles, and there is likely a difficulty reconciling some ideas with his opposition to raising minimum wages, family medical leave, and other such issues. My point in the above is not to suggest that Scott is just fine and his ideas all good, but simply that he is not a grandstanding racist idiot.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 08:31 AM   #449
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Not fair for all these migrants to become the burden of small border towns. Federal govt. should take them and distribute them around the country, so we all share the load and the work.
Maybe we do need a better system to spread the burden, but San Antonio is not a border town or small.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 09:14 AM   #450
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How great a burden are we talking about?

I assume that it can be quantified, although my starting assumptions often have short lifespans.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 09:55 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
How great a burden are we talking about?

I assume that it can be quantified, although my starting assumptions often have short lifespans.
For the record, state with the largest numebr of immigrants is... California.
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:20 AM   #452
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The largest group of illegal immigrants is caused by...overstaying a legally issued visa.
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:44 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This just illustrates how silly this whining is. Even though they were flown to MA (how cool that must have been for these simple folk), they still have it like 100x better than they did in that dump of a country they came from. Hell, probably better than had they stayed in TX or FL. This is just a speedbump for them. And they are suing, lol.

Seems like everyone wins in the end.
Stay consistent. You dismiss the blacklash as "silly whining" but you must know how this cynical "justifiable tactic" will be recieved by people who actually care about human rights or just basic decency?

How about DeSantis visits my state and I punch him in the ******* mouth then hear you whine about violence from the left? Then I come after all who supported this and then you whine some more about it and cry "partisan witch hunt!!!@#@"
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:12 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
How about DeSantis visits my state and I punch him in the ******* mouth then hear you whine about violence from the left? Then I come after all who supported this and then you whine some more about it and cry "partisan witch hunt!!!@#@"

Not sure what your point is here, other than you seem to have an agitated stance in regards to this event? Seriously, what is your point?
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:32 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This just illustrates how silly this whining is. Even though they were flown to MA (how cool that must have been for these simple folk), they still have it like 100x better than they did in that dump of a country they came from. Hell, probably better than had they stayed in TX or FL. This is just a speedbump for them. And they are suing, lol.

Seems like everyone wins in the end.
I am not sure that the open admission that Texas and Florida are relative dumps is the best public relations move.

Being flown to Massachusetts can mean many things. In case you are entirely ignorant of geography and the like, it might be worthwhile to note that Massachusetts is a rather large place, and there is a big difference between landings.

Even "simple folk" probably wouldn't mind being told honestly where they're going. Even some of us simple folk know enough to balk at the idea that the perception of social superiority is a good excuse for lying.
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:39 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I am not sure that the open admission that Texas and Florida are relative dumps is the best public relations move.

Come on, Bruto. You know I am referring to their ******** country of Venezuela. I doubt many here going to dspute that label, currently.

Quote:
A UN report estimated in March 2019 that 94% of Venezuelans lived in poverty, and by 2021 almost twenty percent of Venezuelans (5.4 million) had left their country. The UN analysis estimates in 2019 that 25% of Venezuelans need some form of humanitarian assistance.

TX and FL are like Utopias, in comparison. Then they are sent to MA, and liberals act like these people are enduring the hardship of the century. It is comical.
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Old 24th September 2022, 09:00 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
TX and FL are like Utopias, in comparison. Then they are sent to MA, and liberals act like these people are enduring the hardship of the century. It is comical.
No, they are acting like DeSantis is a pure crap politician, which is fitting, because he is
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Old 24th September 2022, 09:31 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Not sure what your point is here, other than you seem to have an agitated stance in regards to this event? Seriously, what is your point?
Backlash against your stance isn't silly. It should be expected, if you're consistent.
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Old 24th September 2022, 10:40 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
No, they are acting like DeSantis is a pure crap politician, which is fitting, because he is

The voters will decide that, I suppose.
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Old 24th September 2022, 11:03 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Not sure what your point is here, other than you seem to have an agitated stance in regards to this event? Seriously, what is your point?
Well, we know what your "points" are, Warp.

Abuse of immigrants.
Denial of basic human rights.
Elected officials exceeding their lawful authority.

I could go on, but. . .
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Old 24th September 2022, 11:14 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The voters will decide that, I suppose.
How every un-American!

The voters in the next election don't decide whether people process basic human rights. That is a settled matter of law and tradition in America.

That you could even suggest otherwise is telling.

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Old 24th September 2022, 11:18 AM   #462
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A good way to assess DeSnottis is to take a look at the people who admire him.

Yes, the likes of that.
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Old 24th September 2022, 11:34 AM   #463
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Come on, Bruto. You know I am referring to their ******** country of Venezuela. I doubt many here going to dspute that label, currently.




TX and FL are like Utopias, in comparison. Then they are sent to MA, and liberals act like these people are enduring the hardship of the century. It is comical.
They were still without jobs, shelter or food in TX (they were never in FL except to be flown to MA). Hardly a "utopia".

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The voters will decide that, I suppose.
Sure. There are plenty of people who agree with crap politicians' crappy policies...like using human beings as pawns to further their own political ambitions.
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Old 24th September 2022, 12:33 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
They were still without jobs, shelter or food in TX (they were never in FL except to be flown to MA). Hardly a "utopia".

I find it unlikely that they were standing outside in the rain, starving, in TX. And believe it or not, even US citizens are without work. You have to get a job...you aren't gifted one automatically. The same goes for living accommodations.

You think they had it better in Venezuela? Then send them back, please.
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Old 24th September 2022, 12:49 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You think they had it better in Venezuela? Then send them back, please.
Well, that's arse backwards. Central Americans migrate here because they don't have it better in their home countries.

Warp, you act as though living in an impoverished country is some sort of crime which excludes someone from wanting to immigrate to the U.S.
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:16 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Come on, Bruto. You know I am referring to their ******** country of Venezuela. I doubt many here going to dspute that label, currently.




TX and FL are like Utopias, in comparison. Then they are sent to MA, and liberals act like these people are enduring the hardship of the century. It is comical.
Sure they're scads better just about anywhere than the failed state of Venezuela, but you also pointed out (probably accurately) that they would be better off out of Texas and Florida, which is why I was careful to use the word "relative" there.
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:30 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Sure they're scads better just about anywhere than the failed state of Venezuela, but you also pointed out (probably accurately) that they would be better off out of Texas and Florida, which is why I was careful to use the word "relative" there.

I don't think they are better off out of TX or FL for any other reason than MA is essentially a sanctuary state (not that we would deport them anyway), and now everyone will be lining up to help them after this publicity. Plus, they got a lawsuit out of it. Talk about the new American Dream!

There are plenty of thriving migrants in TX and FL, from a variety of countries, so that is not really an issue.
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Old 24th September 2022, 04:00 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think they are better off out of TX or FL for any other reason than MA is essentially a sanctuary state (not that we would deport them anyway), and now everyone will be lining up to help them after this publicity. Plus, they got a lawsuit out of it. Talk about the new American Dream!

There are plenty of thriving migrants in TX and FL, from a variety of countries, so that is not really an issue.
So your statement, "Hell, probably better than had they stayed in TX or FL." was just hot air?

And if there is no difference between what happens in a sanctuary state and what happens elsewhere, what is the point? It's just political theater, a statement about abstractions made at the expense of people perceived as too powerless or too naive to do anything about it.

And, of course, your snide comment about how they're living the American dream because "they got a lawsuit out of it" immediately declares, without the burden of responsibility, that the content of the lawsuit is without merit. No doubt, if they win a judgment, people can line up to declare that it was stolen, just as any defeat of the right wing position these days can be nothing else.
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Old 24th September 2022, 05:45 PM   #469
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Below are quotes from a news article that aired Friday on NPR. Puts a face to the migrants coming across the border in places like Eagle Pass Texas.
Quote:
It was late afternoon when Josť Albornoz emerged, tired and soaking wet, from the Rio Grande near Eagle Pass, Texas...He took out a dry change of clothes, a small bag with his documents, some throat lozenges, and — most importantly — his smartphone. "My trip was organized and planned by Google, practically, not me," Albornoz said in Spanish, laughing. Then he turned on his phone to call his wife back in Venezuela to let her know he'd made it to Texas.

This new wave of migrants is coming largely from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua. That's significant because these migrants generally cannot be expelled under the pandemic border restrictions known as Title 42. And immigration authorities are mostly releasing them into the United States, where they can seek asylum. When migrants are released from U.S. custody in Eagle Pass, they're dropped off by bus at a former warehouse on the outskirts of town. A non-profit called Mission: Border Hope has transformed the building into a bustling way station for migrants.

"Our main purpose is to help them continue their journey," said Valeria Wheeler, the group's executive director. There are showers, and a kitchen handing out free sandwiches. There's also a counter where migrants can buy a bus ticket to San Antonio, and catch another bus or a plane to wherever they're going. She says the group moved into this space in April, after their contacts at the Border Patrol urged them to. "Actually this place was built because of the anticipation they had," Wheeler said. "They told us: 'Valeria, you will need a bigger place. There's gonna be a lot more people.' " NPR link
Venezuelan migrants Kimberly GonzŠlez and Denny Velasco and their children wait for a bus at Mission: Border Hope in Eagle Pass, Texas.
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File Type: jpg Waiting in Eagle Pass TX.jpg (82.5 KB, 14 views)
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:05 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Below are quotes from a news article that aired Friday on NPR. Puts a face to the migrants coming across the border in places like Eagle Pass Texas.

Yeah, it puts a disease-laden, poorly-vetted face on these migrants.

Quote:
This new wave of migrants is coming largely from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua. That's significant because these migrants generally cannot be expelled under the pandemic border restrictions known as Title 42. And immigration authorities are mostly releasing them into the United States, where they can seek asylum. When migrants are released from U.S. custody in Eagle Pass, they're dropped off by bus at a former warehouse on the outskirts of town. A non-profit called Mission: Border Hope has transformed the building into a bustling way station for migrants.

Talk about horrible policy. They are illegals and should be deported. Nauseating.
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:32 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, it puts a disease-laden, poorly-vetted face on these migrants.


Talk about horrible policy. They are illegals and should be deported. Nauseating.
Tell us more about hatred and fear on the left.
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:35 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, it puts a disease-laden, poorly-vetted face on these migrants.
Your evidence for this...

Oh that's right, you saw it on Faux News...

"OMG, tHeY'rE bRiNgInG sMaLlpOx aNd LeEpRoSy To OuR cOuNtRy. those dirty mudpeople are going to replace us poor oppressed white people The sky is falling, the world is ending

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Nauseating.
Well, your attitude certainly is.
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Old 24th September 2022, 09:37 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This just illustrates how silly this whining is. Even though they were flown to MA (how cool that must have been for these simple folk), they still have it like 100x better than they did in that dump of a country they came from. Hell, probably better than had they stayed in TX or FL. This is just a speedbump for them. And they are suing, lol.

Seems like everyone wins in the end.
I still donít understand why you just donít call yourself a racist. Itís obvious and weíve had many here before , but they were honest about it
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Old 24th September 2022, 09:59 PM   #474
Norman Alexander
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These migrants are bringing diseases to a country where the GQP and MAGAchimps actively motivated millions of their ilk AGAINST the use of vaccines for a pandemic disease?? And encouraged the spread of disease by refusing to take precautions?

That's amusing.
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Old 24th September 2022, 10:08 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, it puts a disease-laden, poorly-vetted face on these migrants.

Talk about horrible policy. They are illegals and should be deported. Nauseating.
Did someone apply for a job that went to a more qualified latino?

Is someone jealous of some brown folks who have better cars and houses?

Did some see an old hispanic lady use a disabled parking tag?

Maybe some latinos laughed at a joke told in Spanish as he walked by and that someone thinks they were talking about him?
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Old 24th September 2022, 10:21 PM   #476
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I find it unlikely that they were standing outside in the rain, starving, in TX.
How would you know what their life in TX is like?

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And believe it or not, even US citizens are without work. You have to get a job...you aren't gifted one automatically.
I've quoted and cited twice in this thread that asylum seekers cannot work legally in the US until 150 days have passed since they apply for asylum and then, and only then, can they even apply for a work permit.

And then, most of them don't speak English and many have no skills so finding even low-paying jobs is difficult.

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The same goes for living accommodations.
Have you tried to rent an apartment when you have no money and no job? Good luck!
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You think they had it better in Venezuela? Then send them back, please.
Better in Venezuela? No, or they wouldn't risk their lives getting here. But that's a very odd leap you made from saying they still had no shelter, food or jobs in TX to thinking they had it better in Venezuela. But you seem to think it's paradise once they get here for some reason.
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Old 24th September 2022, 10:50 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Better in Venezuela? No, or they wouldn't risk their lives getting here. But that's a very odd leap you made from saying they still had no shelter, food or jobs in TX to thinking they had it better in Venezuela. But you seem to think it's paradise once they get here for some reason.
Someone has obviously never ventured far out of their safe, white, middle-class neighborhood and seen what wide world is really like. They should try visiting India sometime, or Vietnam, or Malawi or Madagascar, and experience what real poverty looks like (I chose those because I have been to all of them)
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Old 24th September 2022, 10:55 PM   #478
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so much of anti-immigration sentiment can be summed up as "my life gets worse if your life gets better", even if the opposite is true.
zero-sum mentality is at the heart of US conservatism.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:08 AM   #479
Warp12
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Someone has obviously never ventured far out of their safe, white, middle-class neighborhood and seen what wide world is really like. They should try visiting India sometime, or Vietnam, or Malawi or Madagascar, and experience what real poverty looks like (I chose those because I have been to all of them)

Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places? The point was, the US is a much better destination than the country these migrants came from. Whether you are in TX, FL, or MA. Only liberals are pretending these migrants are experiencing ultimate hardship due to the actions DeSantis. Quite the opposite is true.

You are just reinforcing my point.
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Last edited by Warp12; 25th September 2022 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:47 AM   #480
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places? The point was, the US is a much better destination than the country these migrants came from. Whether you are in TX, FL, or MA. Only liberals are pretending these migrants are experiencing ultimate hardship due to the actions DeSantis. Quite the opposite is true.
To expand your horizons! To push out of your comfort zone! To make an effort to learn something about the world you live in by seeing it first hand!

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You are just reinforcing my point.
No, I am giving you opportunities to show everyone here just exactly who you are.
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