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Old 18th October 2017, 09:19 AM   #1081
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I did not exactly say that[...]
No, but it's the inescapable logical conclusion from what you have claimed to be true. That you can find a quote handwaving it away doesn't alter that.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:21 AM   #1082
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Suffering can be the consequence of our making wrong actions. We do not have to do everything the hard way, it is our free choice.

The value of whatever we do is determined by our motives. But if you mean making people suffer to help them evolve, I doubt that defence would fly in a higher court.
"Higher court"? Now you're talking about judgement and punishment, rather than evolution based on learning from mistakes.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:27 AM   #1083
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
"Higher court"? Now you're talking about judgement and punishment, rather than evolution based on learning from mistakes.
The angels of karma determine what we deserve and send us into lives where we reap what we have sowed. We may agree to that before the incarnation, because in the end we are our own judges.

There has to be some kind of administration to control our karma, and it is the angels job. God remains perfect above everything.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:46 AM   #1084
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Some teachings of Silver Birch

Grief, sorrow, sickness and suffering are part of the means by which the children of earth are taught the greatest lessons. If truth were to be found with ease, it would not be appreciated. It is because truth comes in the hour of greatest sorrow or suffering that value is placed upon it by the one who is ready to receive. Trite though is may sound, you cannot obtain truth until you are spiritually ready.

Life is always a polarity. If there were no darkness there would be no light. If there were no trouble there could never be any peace. If the sun always shone you would not appreciate it. You have to learn sometimes through conditions that seem a nuisance. One day you will look back and say, "We learned our best lessons not when the sun was shining, but when the storm was at its greatest, when the thunder roared, the lightning flashed, the clouds obscured the sun and all seemed dark and hopeless". It is only when the soul is in adversity that some of its greatest possibilities can be realised
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:47 AM   #1085
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There may be many injustices taking place in the world, but the spirit world says that every injustice will be compensated in a future lifetime.
People who have been persecuted can do no better than forgive their enemies, as that firmly places the karma at the door of the perpetrators and frees the victims from hate and vengeance which would carry more karma.

The spirit world is strong on teaching we should help one another.
The oppressed must roll over and take the abuse because they had it coming for past sins, and the evildoers should be left to their devices because they'll be oppressed in their next life...
And helping each other is a cynical way to improve one's own standing in the spirit world...

What a disgusting set of beliefs.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:59 AM   #1086
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
The oppressed must roll over and take the abuse because they had it coming for past sins, and the evildoers should be left to their devices because they'll be oppressed in their next life...
And helping each other is a cynical way to improve one's own standing in the spirit world...

What a disgusting set of beliefs.
Indeed; and none the more so for its vaseline vicissitude. When asked to focus, we get overview: it's all said by others; no personal involvement; it's all stuff from long ago; or something. When asked for a broader picture; we get hyper focus; the jots and tittles of spiritual administration in the halls of the abstract angels.

It's shameless and fetid. Worse, it's boring and vacant. It's silly putty for the soul.
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Old 18th October 2017, 10:09 AM   #1087
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Some teachings of Silver Birch

http://www.angelfire.com/ok/SilverBirch/Tcon.html
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 18th October 2017, 10:16 AM   #1088
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The angels of karma determine what we deserve and send us into lives where we reap what we have sowed. We may agree to that before the incarnation, because in the end we are our own judges.

There has to be some kind of administration to control our karma, and it is the angels job. God remains perfect above everything.
What we "deserve"? Not what will aid our spiritual growth more? These angels put us in the way of misery even if it's not necessary for our development? Evil really is good.
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Old 18th October 2017, 10:46 AM   #1089
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some teachings of Silver Birch
People around here tend to be uninterested in "teachings" unless they're supported by objective evidence.
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:09 AM   #1090
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Why do so many of these english language "spiritual teachers" (if they are not using their real name) have Indian names (both Native American and South Asian)? Or ancient Egyptian names?

Seems rather odd.

And highly amusing.

Why do "enlightened spirits/souls" come from only those general cultural areas instead of from ALL the cultures/languages on the planet?
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:11 AM   #1091
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Why do so many of these english language "spiritual teachers" (if they are not using their real name) have Indian names (both Native American and South Asian)? Or ancient Egyptian names?

Seems rather odd.

And highly amusing.

Why do "enlightened spirits/souls" come from only those general cultural areas instead of from ALL the cultures/languages on the planet?
Most importantly; Who still uses Angelfire ?
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:26 AM   #1092
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Most importantly; Who still uses Angelfire ?
Because the spirits have not sorted out how to use Angelsteam?
Or the Angelfluxcapacitor?
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:54 AM   #1093
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some teachings of Silver Birch

http://www.angelfire.com/ok/SilverBirch/Tcon.html
Everything on that link is eye-wateringly bonkers.

How about you start answering some direct questions?

What is an "aetheric body" and how exactly do you know about it?
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:17 PM   #1094
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What is an "aetheric body" and how exactly do you know about it?
Aethletes compete in aethletics to blow hot aether from their aetholes!
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:42 PM   #1095
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Everything on that link is eye-wateringly bonkers.

How about you start answering some direct questions?

What is an "aetheric body" and how exactly do you know about it?
I have said several times that I first learned about the chakras and the etheric body, because I felt feelings like fire flowing through them. I saw a diagram of the seven main chakras in a book and immediately recognised them as the places where I had felt the fire. The chakras are energy centers in the etheric body that link the spirit body to the physical body.
I also felt feelings like electric cobwebs floating over my skin, and a sudden noise felt like a shock in the cobweb.
The problem also effected my mind and I could not concentrate and my thoughts raced out of control. I felt I could not grip my thoughts.

Eventually a medium told me the reason I felt these things was my etheric body was loose, so I had a lot of healing and eventually the problem was cured.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:54 PM   #1096
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...... had a lot of healing and eventually the problem was cured.
Around the same time you took actual medication.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:00 PM   #1097
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Around the same time you took actual medication.
In the early 1970's the psychiatric drugs were nothing but knock out drops that turned you into a zombie. I am 100% certain it was not the drugs that cured my unusual feelings. In fact those feelings continued for a couple of years while I was taking medication and they only stopped when I went to a spiritualist church and had healing. I could often feel the healing as a kind of psychic warmth.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:27 PM   #1098
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Yeah, how can they 'grow up in the spirit world' if they can only develop in the physical world?

It's almost as if you've combined the lies of psychic #1 trying to comfort grieving (would-be) parents with the lies of psychic #2 pontificating on the Natural Order, without noticing the incompatibility of their claims.
Isn't it weird. It's almost as if it was all totally made up rubbish with no verifiable basis in reality!
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:34 PM   #1099
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There may be many injustices taking place in the world, but the spirit world says that every injustice will be compensated in a future lifetime.
Well that's good. No need to oppose injustice or oppression then.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:41 PM   #1100
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The angels of karma

Didn't they get to number 17 in the charts in 1976 with a Hawkwind cover?
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:45 PM   #1101
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Eventually a medium told me the reason I felt these things was my etheric body was loose, so I had a lot of healing and eventually the problem was cured.
Any comment I could add to this would be completely redundant.....
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:47 PM   #1102
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Suffering can be the consequence of our making wrong actions. We do not have to do everything the hard way, it is our free choice.

The value of whatever we do is determined by our motives. But if you mean making people suffer to help them evolve, I doubt that defence would fly in a higher court.
Your claim is that humans have to suffer to evolve, therefore suffering is in your spiritualism a good thing as it helps us evolve.

Like many people before you've come up with an ideology that is at its heart rotten and horrendous. The idea that people have to suffer to "progress" in your spiritualism, is abhorrent to me.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:49 PM   #1103
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have said several times that I first learned about the chakras and the etheric body, because I felt feelings like fire flowing through them. I saw a diagram of the seven main chakras in a book and immediately recognised them as the places where I had felt the fire. The chakras are energy centers in the etheric body that link the spirit body to the physical body.
I also felt feelings like electric cobwebs floating over my skin, and a sudden noise felt like a shock in the cobweb.
The problem also effected my mind and I could not concentrate and my thoughts raced out of control. I felt I could not grip my thoughts.

Eventually a medium told me the reason I felt these things was my etheric body was loose, so I had a lot of healing and eventually the problem was cured.
Baloney.
Demonstrate that "chakras" exist. You cannot.
Demonstrate that "etheric bodies" exist. You cannot.
Demonstrate that "chakras" are a link from anything to anything.

You felt no "fire" you simply thought you did, and that is evidence of nothing, it isn't even evidence.

"Electric cobwebs" is a trivial effect to induce at will in a gullible subject, I have done it. A sudden noise is trivially going to cause tangible effects.

"Couldn't get a grip of your thoughts" is simply a symptom of the very illness you claimed to have.

And at the end, you simply accepted the word of a crank.

Sorry, but that is utter bollocks. I wasted enough of my life investigating such nonsense. Be under no illusion that you can pull any wool over my eyes or anyone else's.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:49 PM   #1104
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
They grow up until maturity, but they cannot advance much in the spirit world.
To do that they have to seek another incarnation.

I had a message from a brother that died in the war as a baby and the medium said, "I have got your brother here, he looks exactly like you"
Since I was in my early twenty's at the time its clear he grew up from a baby.


Your brother died as a baby but his spirit looked like that of a grown man? A grown man in his prime no doubt.

We could extend this then to zygotes. They would appear as spirits resembling the person they would become after they had progressed from their single cell existence. Filled that gap for you.

Now another small detail.

What if a medium is trying to contact a spirit of a departed one but that spirit has since taken up residence in a new body? Will the spirit appear, and if so what would he/she look like?
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:54 PM   #1105
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post

What if a medium is trying to contact a spirit of a departed one but that spirit has since taken up residence in a new body? Will the spirit appear, and if so what would he/she look like?
Obviously a spirit that reincarnates cannot be contacted by a medium.
They are no longer in the spirit world.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:56 PM   #1106
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Your claim is that humans have to suffer to evolve, therefore suffering is in your spiritualism a good thing as it helps us evolve.

Like many people before you've come up with an ideology that is at its heart rotten and horrendous. The idea that people have to suffer to "progress" in your spiritualism, is abhorrent to me.
It takes a lot to change a soul, and intense experiences are needed. If we stayed in the spirit world we would not suffer, but neither would we grow.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 18th October 2017, 02:02 PM   #1107
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So to sum it up: The universe is all about us. It all exists to make us into perfect beings. Even the things that appear to be really bad are actually there for our own good.

Sounds to me like the philosophy of a child, unable to accept harsh reality.

Last edited by jrhowell; 18th October 2017 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 18th October 2017, 02:03 PM   #1108
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
So to sum it up: The universe is all about us. It all exists to make us into perfect beings. Even the things that appear to be really bad are actually there for own own good.

Sounds to me like the philosophy of a child, unable to accept harsh reality.
+1
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Old 18th October 2017, 02:05 PM   #1109
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Obviously a spirit that reincarnates cannot be contacted by a medium.
They are no longer in the spirit world.
By that logic, YOU can't contact the "spirit world" either. So where are to getting all of the crap from?
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Old 19th October 2017, 01:18 AM   #1110
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Looking at some of the "wisdom" of Silver Birch, I see this:

Quote:
Olive Lodge is a good example of a spiritual scientist with an awareness of states of reality existing beyond the surface.
Well, we have to imagine that that's a transcription error and Birch actually means Oliver Lodge. Unfortunately for Birch...

Quote:
Magician John Booth noted that the stage mentalist David Devant managed to fool a number of people into believing he had genuine psychic ability who did not realize that his feats were magic tricks. At St. George's Hall, London he performed a fake "clairvoyant" act where he would read a message sealed inside an envelope. Lodge who was present in the audience was duped by the trick and claimed that Devant had used psychic powers. In 1936, Devant in his book Secrets of My Magic revealed the trick method he had used.

Lodge had endorsed a clairvoyant medium known as "Annie Brittain". However, she made entirely incorrect guesses about a policeman who was disguised as a farmer. She was arrested and convicted for fraudulent fortune telling. Joseph McCabe wrote a skeptical book on the Spiritualist beliefs of Lodge entitled The Religion of Sir Oliver Lodge (1914).
Perhaps his judgement on such matters wasn't as good as Birch would like it to be?
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Old 19th October 2017, 09:32 AM   #1111
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The angels of karma determine what we deserve and send us into lives where we reap what we have sowed. We may agree to that before the incarnation, because in the end we are our own judges.

There has to be some kind of administration to control our karma, and it is the angels job. God remains perfect above everything.
Hi! I'm jumping in here at the tail end of a long thread. I have two questions regarding the above statement:
  • "God remains perfect above everything." Please tell me more about God: a single being, or multiple? Male, female, or non-gendered? Omniscient? Omnipresent? Is this the same God depicted in the Bible and Quran?
  • "... and it is the angels job." As above: please tell me more about these angels. Administering the karma of 7 billion people--and who knows how many souls there are in total--must be quite the task. How many angels are needed for this? As more souls get created (recall, there are now over 7 billion of them) do more angels come into existence to help with administration? Or is it the same number of angels there were 5,000 years ago, and they're now hoplessly overburdened?
In addition, is there a difference between a "spirit" and a "soul"?
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:00 AM   #1112
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Hi! I'm jumping in here at the tail end of a long thread. I have two questions ..
You will find, as we all have herein, that he does not care a whit and will only echo his greatest hits.
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:08 AM   #1113
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
You will find, as we all have herein, that he does not care a whit and will only echo his greatest hits.
I would summarize Scorpion's "spiritualism", such as it is, as just one colossal “Just-so story”.
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:21 AM   #1114
Scorpion
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Hi! I'm jumping in here at the tail end of a long thread. I have two questions regarding the above statement:
  • "God remains perfect above everything." Please tell me more about God: a single being, or multiple? Male, female, or non-gendered? Omniscient? Omnipresent? Is this the same God depicted in the Bible and Quran?
  • "... and it is the angels job." As above: please tell me more about these angels. Administering the karma of 7 billion people--and who knows how many souls there are in total--must be quite the task. How many angels are needed for this? As more souls get created (recall, there are now over 7 billion of them) do more angels come into existence to help with administration? Or is it the same number of angels there were 5,000 years ago, and they're now hoplessly overburdened?
In addition, is there a difference between a "spirit" and a "soul"?
The spirits speak of God as the great spirit who is present everywhere in everything and in us. So such a being is above gender and does not have a body as we would think of one. God may be called upon by any name, but we cannot know what he is with our limited minds, therefore no religion has a handle on God. The God the spirits speak of is certainly not the wrathful monster of the old testament nor the sadistic maniac of the Quran.

I have no idea how many angels there are but it follows that there are enough for the job in hand, as it would not be a perfect divine plan if there were not.
But I think there are far more than 7 billion souls in existence as the spirits say there are many other inhabited planets, and there are countless other spirits in the higher planes of existence.

Soul or spirit are interchangeable words in the dictionary, as they both speak of the immaterial part of man.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:32 AM   #1115
Donn
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The spirits speak of God as the great spirit who is present everywhere in everything and in us. So such a being is above gender and does not have a body as we would think of one. God may be called upon by any name, but we cannot know what he is with our limited minds, therefore no religion has a handle on God. The God the spirits speak of is certainly not the wrathful monster of the old testament nor the sadistic maniac of the Quran.

I have no idea how many angels there are but it follows that there are enough for the job in hand, as it would not be a perfect divine plan if there were not.
But I think there are far more than 7 billion souls in existence as the spirits say there are many other inhabited planets, and there are countless other spirits in the higher planes of existence.

Soul or spirit are interchangeable words in the dictionary, as they both speak of the immaterial part of man.
Just so. Just so.
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:39 AM   #1116
abaddon
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The spirits speak of God as the great spirit who is present everywhere in everything and in us. So such a being is above gender and does not have a body as we would think of one. God may be called upon by any name, but we cannot know what he is with our limited minds, therefore no religion has a handle on God. The God the spirits speak of is certainly not the wrathful monster of the old testament nor the sadistic maniac of the Quran.
The question remains. How do you know this?

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have no idea how many angels there are but it follows that there are enough for the job in hand, as it would not be a perfect divine plan if there were not.
But I think there are far more than 7 billion souls in existence as the spirits say there are many other inhabited planets, and there are countless other spirits in the higher planes of existence.
How do you know this? There are insufficient angels? For anything? Cannot you god simply make more? Apparently not.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Soul or spirit are interchangeable words in the dictionary, as they both speak of the immaterial part of man.
You mean that part you cannot and refuse to demonstrate is even real? Like the "etheric body"? a concept that you propose, yet run a mile from when challenged?
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:48 AM   #1117
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The question remains. How do you know this?
I say mostly what I have learned from spirit teachers in trance lectures.

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
How do you know this? There are insufficient angels? For anything? Cannot you god simply make more? Apparently not.?
There must be enough angels or the divine plan would not be perfect.

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You mean that part you cannot and refuse to demonstrate is even real? Like the "etheric body"? a concept that you propose, yet run a mile from when challenged?
I remain certain that I could feel my etheric body when it was out of alignment, all though I don't feel much now. I obviously cannot prove this.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:02 AM   #1118
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Quote from, porpoise of life
"But basically, because you're saying the spirits are not supposed to allow proof of their doings to even exist, there is no way to distinguish between the work of a spirit, a lie, a mistake, a delusion, or random chance."

If we open ourselves to the possibility of inspiration from higher worlds we may get guidance, but to determine if it is from the spirit world or not is a subtle game.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:04 AM   #1119
Donn
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I say mostly what I have learned from spirit teachers in trance lectures.
How do you know that these teachers know anything?

Do focus.
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:06 AM   #1120
Donn
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If we open ourselves to the possibility of inspiration from higher worlds we may get guidance, but to determine if it is from the spirit world or not is a subtle game.
No, it's only a game.
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