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Old 1st September 2017, 05:21 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Not all animals have or have developed these abilities.

People get killed by bullets, arrows, bombs, and impacts of all sorts. Sometimes though...people stop and avoid it.

The hair on your neck creeps up, and there is a sense of heightened awareness...and the outcome is at your hand.

As a cornerback, I could tell when the play was coming my way. Maybe that was me reading how most of the line was positioning their feet, or which direction everyone was looking, but I knew. If I was certain I'd call, "strong side lean," then left or right. Never did it often, but I was never wrong.
Telepathy is not necessary to explain such things. We know that subliminal inputs can warn us of things before we become consciously aware of the cause. I've experienced this myself.

Athletes refer to being "in the zone" when it's like the body is running itself at a high level of performance.
Skilled martial artists often appear to "know what the opponent is going to do" before he does it. This is just long experience and the ability to read subtle body cues and facial expression, further developed by years of training.
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Old 1st September 2017, 05:22 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Because it isn't reliable, predictable, or consistent in any way.

Practicing is a form of manipulation and people who are the best at it, don't want to draw attention to themselves.

How would one use telepathy to make money, besides working as a magician?
If a person actually had telepathic powers, then there would be any number of ways that such a person could use his powers to make oodles of money. Playing cards, espionage, being a police investigator, being a lawyer, being a reporter, and so on.
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Old 1st September 2017, 05:41 AM   #123
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Hi, King of the Americas. Welcome back.

I did what you asked. I named my terms, just like you said. OK, let's get it going with Randi's test. How would you like to proceed?
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Old 1st September 2017, 05:46 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
KOTA is presumably picking up posts telepathically.

Or he lost interest on page 1.
Spooky, did he read my mind?
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Old 1st September 2017, 06:55 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post

How would one use telepathy to make money, besides working as a magician?
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Playing poker.
Spy.
Detective.
Business negotiator.
Heck, you could even be a really good prostitute.
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:07 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Now, I'm no G.I. Joe, but I've never heard of any kind of version of unarmed combat or take-downs that stress not to focus on the back of someone's head in case they sense it. That's just odd.
It could have been a fragment of an old Atlantean Kung Fu manual. The half-menorah is the symbol for "don't look at the back of a Spaniard's head when planning a takedown." But the fragment was found off the coast of Morocco, not Spain, which casts doubt on the translation.
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:13 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Look, I am a grad student. This is an internet message board. I could care less about full citations and holding your hand through the intertubes.

What you are discussing is intuition...and ABSOLUTELY, some athletes can "read" setups better than others. The best athletes seem to "predict" better than others.
Humans are good at pattern recognition.
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:20 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Humans are good at pattern recognition.
For example, most of us can probably tell where this thread is going.

Dave
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:22 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
How would one use telepathy to make money, besides working as a magician?
Stage magicians don't make money by practicing real magic. They make money by entertaining people with illusions. The whole point of a magic show is that it's fun because you know it's an illusion but you don't see the mechanism.

Doing real magic on stage would be depressing, boring, and probably not very lucrative. Your income would be limited to whatever a good illusionist normally earns. As a mentalist, you wouldn't even be saving much on props and apparatus. In order to earn more, you'd have to improve your patter, marketing, and stage presence--all things that any illusionist must do, even without real magic.

No, for a *real* mind-reader, the big money is gonna be made far, far away from the stage.

Here's another one: If telepathy were real, why does the CIA still **** around with waterboarding? If telepathy were real, why don't all our histories of warfare include accounts of skilled interrogators reading the minds of captured enemies?
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:58 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Because it isn't reliable, predictable, or consistent in any way.
This property--reliable, predictable, consistent--is a property of real things that do useful work in the real world.

At the most basic level, telepathy isn't real because it cannot be tested. If the test fails, "oh, it's not reliable." If the prediction is wrong, "oh, it's not predictable." If the results look like noise, "oh, it's not consistent."
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Old 1st September 2017, 09:19 AM   #131
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Simple telepathy test. I will hold two playing cards in my hand and concentrate on them. The telepath will divine which two cards are in my hand. Only exact matches will count. We will conduct 100 trials and a success will be declared if the telepath gets 90 out of the 100 correct.

When do we start? If this **** works, I will soon be the most famous poker player of all time . . .
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Old 1st September 2017, 10:20 AM   #132
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Er um ok...
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Old 1st September 2017, 11:03 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
As a cornerback, I could tell when the play was coming my way. Maybe that was me reading how most of the line was positioning their feet, or which direction everyone was looking, but I knew. If I was certain I'd call, "strong side lean," then left or right. Never did it often, but I was never wrong.
That is testable. Go to a football game and put on a blindfold and earplugs so that you do not pick up any regular sensory information about the game. Then call off the plays that you are sure of as they occur and have someone score you on how many you get right. "Never wrong" should be easy to prove.

Last edited by jrhowell; 1st September 2017 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 1st September 2017, 11:50 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Because it isn't reliable, predictable, or consistent in any way.

Practicing is a form of manipulation and people who are the best at it, don't want to draw attention to themselves.

How would one use telepathy to make money, besides working as a magician?
And by the way, ...

If I actually had telepathic powers, then I expect that I would be much better at picking up girls in bars.

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Old 1st September 2017, 12:06 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Because it isn't reliable, predictable, or consistent in any way.
How fortunate we are that our other (i.e. real) senses and brain functions do not work like this.
If telepathy is real, and a function of the human brain, why does it not behave like all our other functions? Imagine if your eyesight wasn't reliable, predictable or consistent iin any way.
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Old 1st September 2017, 12:14 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
How fortunate we are that our other (i.e. real) senses and brain functions do not work like this.
If telepathy is real, and a function of the human brain, why does it not behave like all our other functions? Imagine if your eyesight wasn't reliable, predictable or consistent iin any way.
That's a valid question to ask, although it doesn't preclude the existence of psi powers. It just means they would work differently than our other senses.
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Old 1st September 2017, 12:23 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
That's a valid question to ask, although it doesn't preclude the existence of psi powers. It just means they would work differently than our other senses.
It doesn't, but then we are skirting dangerously close to special pleading.
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Old 1st September 2017, 12:38 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
It doesn't, but then we are skirting dangerously close to special pleading.
Close, but our senses (and the brain that sifts through the information) are notoriously unreliable. Eyewitness testimony is laughably unreliable. Don't make it sound like we're bastions of reliability. If 20 people told you they saw Jesus return and walk on water, you probably wouldn't believe them.
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:00 PM   #139
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Very simply -

KotA, are you interested in conducting a properly controlled test of your telepathy or not?
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:08 PM   #140
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There's a substantial difference between the (notoriously inaccurate) task of recalling experiences in detail and the reliability with which our various senses perceive the experiences in the first place. They're quite distinct tasks. In any case, there's no need to invoke some hypothetical and still undefined extra sense since none is required to explain our present abilities and no rigorous search for extra abilities has found anything to require another explanation.
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:10 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Very simply -

KotA, are you interested in conducting a properly controlled test of your telepathy or not?


Has KotA claimed personally to be telepathic?
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:10 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Close, but our senses (and the brain that sifts through the information) are notoriously unreliable. Eyewitness testimony is laughably unreliable. Don't make it sound like we're bastions of reliability. If 20 people told you they saw Jesus return and walk on water, you probably wouldn't believe them.
You're equivocating between vision and memory. Vision is orders of magnitude more reliable than telepathy.

Color blindness is an identifiable, testable condition, because the mechanisms of vision are predictable and function in a reliable. Even their failure modes can be understood. Graphic design is a productive discipline, contributing to every area of human commerce, because vision is reliable. Headlights, traffic signals, and reflective license plates have evolved as part of our system of automobile management, because vision is reliable.

This manual (PDF) exists because vision is reliable. The multi billion dollar monitor industry exists because vision is reliable. Written language exists because vision. Is. Reliable.

Vision is not perfect. But humanity has evolved no telepathic arts. Humanity has produced no engines of commerce or tools of war that exploit the telepathic sense. Because the telepathic sense can't even be measured to exist. Compared to telepathy, vision is absolutely a bastion of reliability.

Did you even stop to think how reliable your sense of sight must be, just for you to be able to accomplish even the simplest tasks throughout the day? You just take that reliability so thoroughly for granted that you forget it even exists.
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:11 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
That's a valid question to ask, although it doesn't preclude the existence of psi powers. It just means they would work differently than our other senses.
"Doesn't work" is indeed different from our other senses.
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:16 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Close, but our senses (and the brain that sifts through the information) are notoriously unreliable. Eyewitness testimony is laughably unreliable. Don't make it sound like we're bastions of reliability. If 20 people told you they saw Jesus return and walk on water, you probably wouldn't believe them.
Not so unreliable that you could not communicate all that poison into the well.
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Old 1st September 2017, 01:57 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Has KotA claimed personally to be telepathic?
I thought the same thing, but his OP seems to indicate he wants to be tested ...

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Recent events and displays of well researched data has indicated to me, that 'telepathy' ... is a real measurable phenomena ...... Anyone here want to run a test, employing skeptics as the subjects??
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Old 1st September 2017, 02:15 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Has KotA claimed personally to be telepathic?
Yes.
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Old 1st September 2017, 04:42 PM   #147
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We should get him hooked up with Michel H.
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Old 1st September 2017, 05:33 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
I thought the same thing, but his OP seems to indicate he wants to be tested ...
The opening post you quoted says he wants skeptics to be tested, not himself. "Anyone here want to run a test, employing skeptics as the subjects??"

He claims to have become convinced that telepathy is some kind of real phenomenon, but I do not see where he claims that he personally is telepathic.
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Old 1st September 2017, 06:50 PM   #149
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So, anyone want to help run an experiment?
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Old 1st September 2017, 06:57 PM   #150
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post11861734
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Old 1st September 2017, 07:14 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
He claims to have become convinced that telepathy is some kind of real phenomenon, but I do not see where he claims that he personally is telepathic.
He hinted at it here:

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
As a cornerback, I could tell when the play was coming my way. Maybe that was me reading how most of the line was positioning their feet, or which direction everyone was looking, but I knew. If I was certain I'd call, "strong side lean," then left or right. Never did it often, but I was never wrong.
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Old 1st September 2017, 07:15 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So, anyone want to help run an experiment?
Sure.

Lets get a bunch of strangers, say 20, and randomly pair them up. The receiver will wear blindfolds and ear plugs. The sender is seated directly across the receiver. Neither are allowed to make a sound. The sender will randomly choose a card from either a deck of playing cards, a deck of index cards with 4 digit numbers or a deck of index cards with obscure words on them. The sender will then concentrate on what's on the card and try to send it to the receiver for 30 seconds. The receiver will get a tap on the shoulder when it's time to guess. Do 10 trials of 10 guesses. Only exact matches will count as hits ("contemporaneous" will not count at all towards "contemptuous"). Crunch the numbers and look for significance. Be extremely disappointed that nothing was found.
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Old 1st September 2017, 09:19 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So, anyone want to help run an experiment?
Depends. What's in it for me?

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
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Old 1st September 2017, 09:33 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Simple telepathy test. I will hold two playing cards in my hand and concentrate on them. The telepath will divine which two cards are in my hand. Only exact matches will count. We will conduct 100 trials and a success will be declared if the telepath gets 90 out of the 100 correct.

When do we start? If this **** works, I will soon be the most famous poker player of all time . . .
I got this;

One red reverse uno card and a get out of jail free monopoly card.
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Old 1st September 2017, 11:56 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Not so unreliable that you could not communicate all that poison into the well.
I guess I triggered the collective.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 12:03 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I guess I triggered the collective.

Or you were simply incorrect.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 01:24 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So, anyone want to help run an experiment?
Get in touch with this guy - he seems to want to run such an experiment.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 01:35 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
There's a substantial difference between the (notoriously inaccurate) task of recalling experiences in detail and the reliability with which our various senses perceive the experiences in the first place. They're quite distinct tasks. In any case, there's no need to invoke some hypothetical and still undefined extra sense since none is required to explain our present abilities and no rigorous search for extra abilities has found anything to require another explanation.
It would account for supposed paranormal accounts that otherwise reliable people have reported. A teacher I've worked with for over a decade swears her daughter saw grandma walking down the hallway right around the same time she died in the hospital. And the daughter, who later became a teacher I also worked with, verified the whole thing.

Either every account like that (and there are countless anecdotes) are all lies, which is absurd, or people are grossly mistaken about what they're seeing, which doesn't help the whole "senses are reliable" argument, or something genuinely strange sometimes happens to people.

It also could be that telepathy happens all the time, but our brains do it automatically, below the conscious level, so it goes unnoticed, like digestion. And occasionally it percolates to the conscious, and you have a genuine moment of precognition or whatever. The causal mechanism would be unknown, but then that's true of lots of things.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 01:47 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
It would account for supposed paranormal accounts that otherwise reliable people have reported. A teacher I've worked with for over a decade swears her daughter saw grandma walking down the hallway right around the same time she died in the hospital. And the daughter, who later became a teacher I also worked with, verified the whole thing.

Either every account like that (and there are countless anecdotes) are all lies, which is absurd, or people are grossly mistaken about what they're seeing, which doesn't help the whole "senses are reliable" argument, or something genuinely strange sometimes happens to people.

It also could be that telepathy happens all the time, but our brains do it automatically, below the conscious level, so it goes unnoticed, like digestion. And occasionally it percolates to the conscious, and you have a genuine moment of precognition or whatever. The causal mechanism would be unknown, but then that's true of lots of things.
Sadly a supernatural telepathy can't exist. We unfortunately - in the sense of no more of a gap for a hope to hide in - now know that there is simply no mechanism by which supernatural telepathy could work. Whilst there are huge areas in which we lack knowledge this is not one of them. We know how all the forces at the scales claimed by supernatural telepathy work and the constraints on them. Anything of a an "unknown" communication from brain to brain would not be what is claimed to be supernatural telepathy.

If humanity continues with technological progress I am sure we will have non-supernatural telepathy within only a few generations. Moving the smart phone directly into the brain is already technologically feasible.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 01:50 AM   #160
Fudbucker
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Sadly a supernatural telepathy can't exist. We unfortunately - in the sense of no more of a gap for a hope to hide in - now know that there is simply no mechanism by which supernatural telepathy could work. Whilst there are huge areas in which we lack knowledge this is not one of them. We know how all the forces at the scales claimed by supernatural telepathy work and the constraints on them. Anything of a an "unknown" communication from brain to brain would not be what is claimed to be supernatural telepathy.

If humanity continues with technological progress I am sure we will have non-supernatural telepathy within only a few generations. Moving the smart phone directly into the brain is already technologically feasible.
You assert that. What we think we know and what turns out to be the case are often two different things.
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