ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:17 PM   #41
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There is a place for deciding what costs are acceptable In the name of freedom.
I wish Conservatives would stop using ignorant platitudes about "freedom" and "liberty".

No freedom is without its limits, especially when it may affect the lives of others.

If you want to live in a country where there are no limits, no laws, no regulations, go move to the jungle.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:20 PM   #42
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I wish Conservatives would stop using ignorant platitudes about "freedom" and "liberty".

No freedom is without its limits, especially when it may affect the lives of others.

If you want to live in a country where there are no limits, no laws, no regulations, go move to the jungle.
They want the benefits of having a government but without any limits to their own "freedoms."
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:22 PM   #43
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Kind of like the "right" to shoot crowds of people that a shooter feels is acting violently towards him.......
If those crowds are also actually acting violent toward him, then yes.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:22 PM   #44
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
They want the benefits of having a government but without any limits to their own "freedoms."
Every time a Conservative repeats platitudes about guns and freedom, we should be like "I'll stop pushing for more gun control when you stop pushing to ban abortion".
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:24 PM   #45
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I wish Conservatives would stop using ignorant platitudes about "freedom" and "liberty".

No freedom is without its limits, especially when it may affect the lives of others.

If you want to live in a country where there are no limits, no laws, no regulations, go move to the jungle.
That is a stance up for debate.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:24 PM   #46
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,605
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I wish Conservatives would stop using ignorant platitudes about "freedom" and "liberty".

No freedom is without its limits, especially when it may affect the lives of others.

If you want to live in a country where there are no limits, no laws, no regulations, go move to the jungle.
If you object to conservative "platitudes," you should stop using them.

"America, love it or leave it" was a cheesy bumper sticker from the 60's and '70s, and it was no more logical then than now.
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane

Last edited by Resume; 3rd October 2017 at 07:34 PM. Reason: period
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:26 PM   #47
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
That is a stance up for debate.
On the contrary, we as a society have decided long ago that no Freedom is without its limits.

Freedom to travel, Freedom to do business, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Association all now have their limits and the courts have upheld such limitations.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:28 PM   #48
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
That is a stance up for debate.
No, it is not. Not in any venue that matters.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:28 PM   #49
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
On the contrary, we as a society have decided long ago that no Freedom is without its limits.

Freedom to travel, Freedom to do business, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Association all now have their limits and the courts have upheld such limitations.
Society is not a knowledgeable authority.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:29 PM   #50
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Society is not a knowledgeable authority.
It is THE authority that most humans live under, including you.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:30 PM   #51
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,207
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So every gun owner is stupid?
Very nice example of the rule of so.

He didn't say "People that own guns are stupid," he said that "People who own guns for the reason of believing that doing so is an expression of freedom are stupid."
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:32 PM   #52
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It is THE authority that most humans live under, including you.
Irrelevant. It isnt knowledgeable or has anything to point to it being a good example of what boundaries should be. It has no place in debating in what it should be.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:32 PM   #53
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Society is not a knowledgeable authority.
We are the only authority that matters.

Until Jesus comes down from Heaven and sets down the law, Society is the only authority that matters.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:35 PM   #54
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
We are the only authority that matters.

Until Jesus comes down from Heaven and sets down the law, Society is the only authority that matters.
"Because society says so" is not an acceptable authority on a debate about where limits in society should be.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:36 PM   #55
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Irrelevant.
It is highly relevant. Societies evolved because they work to benefit our species and the individuals within the species. There is no other authority that matters as much.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:37 PM   #56
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
"Because society says so" is not an acceptable authority on a debate about where limits in society should be.
There has to be a final arbiter of what laws will and will not be.

In 2017 USA, its society.

In 1492, it was the Bible.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:39 PM   #57
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
"Because society says so" is not an acceptable authority on a debate about where limits in society should be.
OK Bob, who or what do you believe is the highest authority in the USA as to what laws should and should not be?
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:42 PM   #58
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
OK Bob, who or what do you believe is the highest authority in the USA as to what laws should and should not be?
I believe he thinks there should not be laws or authorities.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:42 PM   #59
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
OK Bob, who or what do you believe is the highest authority in the USA as to what laws should and should not be?
Philosophers, psychologists, economists, political scientists. People who actually rationally and formatively development arguments and evidence on what laws should and should not be.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:44 PM   #60
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Philosophers, psychologists, economists, political scientists. People who actually rationally and formatively development arguments and evidence on what laws should and should not be.
As long as you agree with their positions........
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:44 PM   #61
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Philosophers, psychologists, economists, political scientists. People who actually rationally and formatively development arguments and evidence on what laws should and should not be.
They are The People.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:44 PM   #62
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,600
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Every time a Conservative repeats platitudes about guns and freedom, we should be like "I'll stop pushing for more gun control when you stop pushing to ban abortion".
You won't be believed
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:58 PM   #63
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
As long as you agree with their positions........
Hardly. If someone cites an appropriate source, I won't dismiss that source.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 07:59 PM   #64
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
They are The People.
And collectively they don't make an argument in favor of what a law should be.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:23 PM   #65
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,083
I don't own a gun. I don't own a gun because they are expensive and utterly useless dead weight 99.999% of the time.

The other 0.001% of the time, when the gun is not utterly useless, and you use it, you put yourself at the mercy of a legal system I trust about as much as I trust a rattlesnake.

I'm not saying I distrust the legal system completely. I actually trust a rattlesnake, provided I know where the snake is. We'll get along just fine if I know where the snake is. If I don't know where the snake is, it has rattles to inform me of it's location.

But I wouldn't want to deliberately walk into the snake's striking range, and I wouldn't want to deliberately put myself at the mercy of the legal system.

So I take my chances. So far so good.

But my attitude is, if I can live without a gun, all the rest of you gutless wonders can do without them too. Man up, you cowardly punks, or do time in a concentration camp if caught in possession of one. And I'm talking about a deterrent amount of concentration camp time. Life-ruining time.

But since that isn't going to happen, I'll go ahead and aquire a gun when I begin to feel a significant threat from large swarms of cowardly, crazy gun-monkeys. But I still wouldn't figure the piece of dead weight would be worth a damn most of the time. A cowardly gun-monkey won't have the guts to mess with you unless he gets the drop on you or sneaks up on you.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:28 PM   #66
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,737
BTW I am a gun owner.

They are very cool. I like them a lot.

But that doesn't blind me from seeing that we need gun regulations to protect society.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:29 PM   #67
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
BTW I am a gun owner.

They are very cool. I like them a lot.

But that doesn't blind me from seeing that we need gun regulations to protect society.
We should let each other be free. And if we can't live under that society, we don't deserve a compromised version
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:50 PM   #68
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,207
Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
The other 0.001% of the time, when the gun is not utterly useless, and you use it, you put yourself at the mercy of a legal system I trust about as much as I trust a rattlesnake.
This does forget the uses of a firearm that aren't for shooting people.

I'm not for banning all guns, there are a lot of legitimate reasons for owning a gun, I'm more for licencing those that want to carry a gun off their property, and reducing the reasons to own a gun.

Current Law could remain in place as far as rimfire long guns are concerned. This would happily cover target shooters and most hunters.

To own rimfire Handguns, a person should be required to belong to pistol club.

To own any centerfire gun, other than a shotgun, should require licencing to show that the person is...

1) Mentally stable and of good character
2) Trained with a good understanding of gun laws and safety
3) Has an approved plan of safe gun storage in their home and vehicle
4) Has a responsibility to report the theft or lose of any guns within 24 hours of discovery.

Licencing would be renewed every 5 years at minimal cost unless one of the conditions is breached.

To own a centre fire Handgun, a person should be required to belong to pistol club, be licenced for centerfire guns and have to show a reason beyond "Self Defence" to have it.

Anyone that possessed guns that they were unable to get the required licences for would have 12 months to permanently disable them, pass them on or sell them to a person that is licenced, and if they fail to find a buyer then they could sell them to the State for a fair market price.

Finally, just to throw all the lawyers into a total tissy....

Have the police raid all know gang headquarters, homes, and G/f's home and confiscate and destroy any weapons found. This would be a one time thing and no arrests would be made for weapons possession because of it. It would be totally about the finding and removing of guns off the street.

It might not solve the situation entirely, but I bet it'd make a dent in the issue.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.

Last edited by PhantomWolf; 3rd October 2017 at 08:52 PM.
PhantomWolf is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:52 PM   #69
Brainache
Nasty Brutish and Tall
 
Brainache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 16,852
I believe people should have the rights that the framers of the US constitution intended they should have. Therefore people should have the right to own single shot muzzle loading muskets if they join a well regulated militia.
Brainache is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:54 PM   #70
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,207
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We should let each other be free. And if we can't live under that society, we don't deserve a compromised version
There is a problem with your vision, it gives me the freedom to kill you if I want. I'd rather have compromised freedoms that prevent your freedoms from impinging on my rights.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 08:54 PM   #71
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Gun owners should be randomly drug tested and have a yearly psychological evaluation.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:00 PM   #72
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,083
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We should let each other be free. And if we can't live under that society, we don't deserve a compromised version
Beginning with the freedom to keep breathing? None of the other freedoms exist without that one.

What about the freedom to stop somebody from breathing? That's what a gun is for.

What about the freedom to stop 58 people from breathing, and make breathing painfully difficult for another 500?

I am (situationally) in favor of all those freedoms, but a couple of them shouldn't come as easily as whimsically tugging on a trigger whenever and wherever one chooses. I think if a bastard isn't strong enough to stop me from breathing with his bare hands, then that puny bastard doesn't deserve to have that particular freedom. And if I can choke that bastard off, I'll take that freedom from him.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 3rd October 2017 at 09:10 PM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:01 PM   #73
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,605
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
This does forget the uses of a firearm that aren't for shooting people.

I'm not for banning all guns, there are a lot of legitimate reasons for owning a gun, I'm more for licencing those that want to carry a gun off their property, and reducing the reasons to own a gun.

Current Law could remain in place as far as rimfire long guns are concerned. This would happily cover target shooters and most hunters.

To own rimfire Handguns, a person should be required to belong to pistol club.

To own any centerfire gun, other than a shotgun, should require licencing to show that the person is...

1) Mentally stable and of good character
2) Trained with a good understanding of gun laws and safety
3) Has an approved plan of safe gun storage in their home and vehicle
4) Has a responsibility to report the theft or lose of any guns within 24 hours of discovery.

Licencing would be renewed every 5 years at minimal cost unless one of the conditions is breached.

To own a centre fire Handgun, a person should be required to belong to pistol club, be licenced for centerfire guns and have to show a reason beyond "Self Defence" to have it.

Anyone that possessed guns that they were unable to get the required licences for would have 12 months to permanently disable them, pass them on or sell them to a person that is licenced, and if they fail to find a buyer then they could sell them to the State for a fair market price.

Finally, just to throw all the lawyers into a total tissy....

Have the police raid all know gang headquarters, homes, and G/f's home and confiscate and destroy any weapons found. This would be a one time thing and no arrests would be made for weapons possession because of it. It would be totally about the finding and removing of guns off the street.

It might not solve the situation entirely, but I bet it'd make a dent in the issue.
Much of this is reasonable, some of it debatable, and all of the post a good example of the sort of dialogue that is necessary for a rational public discourse concerning gun control. Sadly, what's going to happen is probably name calling like gun grabber and gun nut, then some half-assed feel-good legislation that will obviate nothing.
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:17 PM   #74
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 8,515
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
We need laws banning bump stocks and any device that allows rapid fire. We also need a law banning magazines over 10 rounds.
This reminds me of the people who said "we must ban ammo capable of penetrating soft body armor". This meant nearly all center fire hunting ammo of course.

What you propose will ban any firearm with auto load capability, multiple barrels or even revolvers. I think all that would be left are the single shots and manual bolt guns.

Quote:
Anyone who uses guns knows that a firearm will overheat if using a bump stock or a high capacity magazine, making target shooting pretty impossible.
Anyone who owns and shoots a gun will understand that rapid fire of any type action will heat up the barrel enough to degrade accuracy.

Quote:
These tools are a gimic for childishly tearing apart watermelons or other large targets. They are not for precise shooting.
Is precise shooting capability one of your standards for an acceptable firearm? What guns would this limit us to?

Quote:
And as we now know, they are great for committing a terrible massacre.
If you're just figuring this out, then you're late to the party.

Ranb
Ranb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:21 PM   #75
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 8,515
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And his 14 legal bump stocks made no contribution at all, did they?....
Are you claiming that the perp could not have bump fired at the same rate without the slide fire stock?

I'm not sure why people are making a big deal about slide fire stocks. Can you explain it to me?
Ranb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:24 PM   #76
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 8,515
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
BTW I am a gun owner.
Based upon the content of your OP, I thought you had never handled or owned a gun in your life with the possible exception of a muzzle loading revolver or rifle.

What do you own/shoot?
Ranb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 09:50 PM   #77
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
could it be that he owns guns but isn't a gun nerd?
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 10:13 PM   #78
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 63,410
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Every time a Conservative repeats platitudes about guns and freedom, we should be like "I'll stop pushing for more gun control when you stop pushing to ban abortion".
Not a bad proposal.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 10:18 PM   #79
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 63,410
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Are you claiming that the perp could not have bump fired at the same rate without the slide fire stock?

I'm not sure why people are making a big deal about slide fire stocks. Can you explain it to me?
I'm pretty sure there is a consensus the rapid fire was the equivalent of automatic fire.

Do you think people can pull a trigger that fast?
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd October 2017, 10:24 PM   #80
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,836
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm pretty sure there is a consensus the rapid fire was the equivalent of automatic fire.

Do you think people can pull a trigger that fast?
There is not. Simply firing.fast does not make it automatic.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:17 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.