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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:51 AM   #2801
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Because there are unified standards that are supposed to be enforced across the EU. If those standards are no longer being enforced by the UK, the. They will need to be enforced by the EU at point of entry.
You don't actually understand how CE mark standards are enforced, do you?
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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:52 AM   #2802
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sorry, I should have put the phrase in quotation marks to signify common vernacular.
I don't see how that would improve your post.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:53 AM   #2803
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The Withdrawal Agreement is not a 'deal'. Perhaps this is at the root of your misunderstanding?

Recent spoutings by Johnson strongly suggest he's hell-bent on 'no deal' in Dec this year.
In which case you would still end up with CE markings recognized by the UK until any future legislation changed that.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:59 AM   #2804
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Because there are unified standards that are supposed to be enforced across the EU. If those standards are no longer being enforced by the UK, the. They will need to be enforced by the EU at point of entry.
I get to post this again. It's an explanation by Leave HQ (not the official leave campaign) about why WTO is a bad idea and a fairly concise explanation of tarrifs, standards etc. http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

Originally Posted by LeaveHQ
Potential exporters not only have to ensure their goods conform, they must provide evidence of their so doing. This requires putting the goods through a recognised system of what is known as "conformity assessment".


We are at this point entering serious nerd territory. If your eyes are beginning to glaze over, all we can say is welcome to the world as it really is. It has taken years of mind-numbing, tedious study to understand this amount of detail, and either you know it, or you don't.
<snippage>


But the moment we leave the EU, this stops. Your component manufacturer may still comply with exactly the same standards, but if the product requires independent testing , any testing houses and the regulatory agencies are no longer recognised. The consignment has no valid paperwork. And, without it, it must be subject to border checks, visual inspection and physical testing.


What that means in practice is that the customs inspector detains your shipment and takes samples to send to an approved testing house (one for the inspector, one for the office pool, one for the stevedores and one for the lab is often the case). Your container inspection is typically about £700 and detention costs about £80 a day for the ten days or so it will take to get your results back. Add the testing fee and you’re paying an extra £2,000 to deliver a container into the EU.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:04 AM   #2805
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
A Canada style deal would mean abandoning N Ireland or reinstatement of the hard border.
Just about any deal with anyone would require customs checks either at the Irish border or at the North Sea. Customs checks are requirement for regulatory checks and Country of Origin enforcement which are sure to be part of ant trade deal.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
What reasons, other than 'because we say so', does the EU give for wanting an alignment treaty for the UK to have a Canada-style deal, when the actual deal with Canada is subject to no such treaty?
It’s only required if you want to eliminate customs checks and other borders issues. In many cases customs checks make it difficult to impossible for UK companies to remain part of integrated supply chains. In these cases, UK suppliers will likely need to either shut down or move their operations and jobs to the EU.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:10 AM   #2806
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I get to post this again. It's an explanation by Leave HQ (not the official leave campaign) about why WTO is a bad idea and a fairly concise explanation of tarrifs, standards etc. http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
Don't forget the EORI and the TSP :

Quote:
Businesses that have not previously carried out Brexit planning may also want to take the time to review these top 5 checks:

Make sure that you have an EORI number as, without it, you will not be able to trade goods with any country outside the UK – if you attempt to import goods into the UK without an EORI number your customs entry may be rejected by HMRC and your goods will not be allowed into the UK.
Make sure that your teams understand how to move goods to and from the EU after Brexit and how the various rules apply to your particular goods – NB. There are special procedures for some types of controlled goods
Consider applying for the Transitional Simplified Procedure (TSP), as this will make moving goods easier and provide a cash flow advantage on any duty payable – it is also important to familiarise your team with how to operate TSP before Brexit.
Check whether your exports/imports are liable to duty – note that the UK has announced a unilateral temporary tariff for goods coming into the UK, but not all duties have been suspended. Goods moving from the UK to other member states will fall under the standard EU tariff. If you are obliged to pay duty then make sure that you are able to do so and have access to a deferment account (yours or your freight forwarders).
Trace your supply chain and consider whether there are any possible VAT/Duty implications following Brexit. For example does it lead to an overseas VAT registration requirement, will you lose an EU VAT simplification or will you end up paying customs duty twice?
https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/insights...brexit-toolkit


Simples.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:14 AM   #2807
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
In which case you would still end up with CE markings recognized by the UK until any future legislation changed that.
How exactly is that going to work? Are suggesting you the EU employ psychics at border crossings to tell them which shipments contain products which no longer meet EU standards? If they don’t inspect and regulate everything, how can the EU possibly know which ones are “the same as before”?

It makes far more sense for the EU to simply use the same process it does for every other non-EU country and validate the product meets EU regulatory requirements at the time of entry.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:32 AM   #2808
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Don't forget the EORI and the TSP :

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/insights...brexit-toolkit


Simples.
Note the "Trace your supply chain and consider whether there are any possible VAT/Duty implications following Brexit. " Rules of origin are going to be a nightmare.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:37 AM   #2809
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The country of origin isn't what assures or doesn't assure compliance with any set of standards.
What does that have to do with anything I said? CoO rules are an issue for any trade agreement regardless of product standards. I certainly never said one depended on the other
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's precisely my point, it's NOT an exception. What you're proposing IS an exception.
Wait, what? Treating imports from the UK the differently than how imports from other non-EU countries isn’t an exception but treating imports from the UK the same way imports from every other non-EU county are treaded is? How on earth does that work?
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:10 PM   #2810
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And it addresses a no-deal brexit. Which isn't what happened.
There is no deal in place that would change anything in the document past the transition period.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
First, once again, CE labels never have to be replaced. I can find CE labels on a bunch of stuff here in the US, even though it's meaningless here. The CE label can stay.
In many cases it would be fraudulent for UK companies to continue putting a CE sticker on their products because doing so requires a notified body be involved in product assessment. Since only EU members can designate a notified body, many of the notified bodies used by UK companies no longer apply so they would need to redo their product assessment with a notified body that does.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:08 PM   #2811
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
In which case you would still end up with CE markings recognized by the UK until any future legislation changed that.
Can we go back a step? Are you under the impression that the EU and UK have 'a deal' that extends beyond the transition period? We haven't, so a 'no deal exit' is still very possible, even likely.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:19 PM   #2812
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For those of you on the ground in Great Britain, is Brexit really regularly discussed and cared about much at all by the great unwashed (joking metaphor for the common man/woman) ((joking-joking meta-metaphor for your average neighbour)), and do most people genuinely care much either way, and are aware of what is happening, or does what we read in the press at a different level than what is really happening with Joe Public on the street in a normal suburban/ country area?

Are we in the Colonies reading extreme ends of a Bell Curve rather than the middle?

Norm
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Old 4th February 2020, 01:35 AM   #2813
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There are an awful lot of people who simply don't care (the "just get it over with" crowd), and don't realise the implications.

Most if not all of them probably think it's been done and dusted as of Friday evening.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:54 AM   #2814
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It's interesting that the government is in the process of re-branding "no deal" as "Australian Deal".

I also note that talks of not allowing chlorinated chicken into the UK food chain has now been replaced by vague references to not reducing food standards and relying on scientific principles - which coincidentally is exactly the wording that the US trade negotiators have been using.

Expect a fire-sale deal with the US this year with all that means in terms of drops in food standards (with resulting difficulties in exporting food to our current biggest market, the EU) and increased US access to lucrative parts of the UK economy and restrictions on the NHS being able to negotiate on drug prices.
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Old 4th February 2020, 03:07 AM   #2815
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
For those of you on the ground in Great Britain, is Brexit really regularly discussed and cared about much at all by the great unwashed (joking metaphor for the common man/woman) ((joking-joking meta-metaphor for your average neighbour)), and do most people genuinely care much either way, and are aware of what is happening, or does what we read in the press at a different level than what is really happening with Joe Public on the street in a normal suburban/ country area?

Are we in the Colonies reading extreme ends of a Bell Curve rather than the middle?

Norm
One way to judge how important Brexit is to the average Brit is to look at how often it's mentioned in pantomime. The pantomime I was part of at the end of January had around a dozen (mostly negative) Brexit references and one reference to what a useless Prime Minister we have at the moment. In this, quite affluent corner of South East Wales, people care about Brexit quite a bit.

Captain Swoop often refers to pro-Brexit pub conversations in his local in the North East of England. We have fewer here but they also tend to be pro-Brexit (and IMO woefully misinformed, but that's probably my bias showing). Certainly the local farmers are looking forward to generous post-Brexit subsidies and higher prices for their produce. I suspect that they my be very disappointed if the UK agrees a trade deal with the US in which the US largely prohibits UK farming subsidies while flooding the UK market with its own highly subsidised farm produce.
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Old 4th February 2020, 03:15 AM   #2816
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The only way UK farmers could prosper after a deal with US is if they get the same level of subsidies as US farmers. Perhaps from the governments magic money tree?
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Old 4th February 2020, 03:57 AM   #2817
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Sheep Farmers up over the N Yorks Moors and Dales aren't happy about Brexit at all.
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Old 4th February 2020, 04:26 AM   #2818
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Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng View Post
The only way UK farmers could prosper after a deal with US is if they get the same level of subsidies as US farmers. Perhaps from the governments magic money tree?
Even then there are economies of scale that come from US farming due to the sheer size of US farms, access to inexpensive (often illegal) labour and the highly industrialised approach to raising livestock (some elements of which are prohibited under EU law) which means that even with equivalent subsidies, UK farmers would be operating at a significant disadvantage.

Of course the US wouldn't want the UK to be allowed to subsidise UK farmers in the same way that US farmers are. It's a common theme of US trade deals and WTO complaints that whilst the US should be allowed to subsidise - directly or indirectly, subsidy by foreign countries should be forbidden.
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Old 4th February 2020, 04:59 AM   #2819
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Trade negotiations are not a zero sum game.
That's a concept far beyond the vast majority of Brexiteers or Trumpettes; they're not au fait with the benefits of cooperation.
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:07 AM   #2820
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In an interview today on Sky News Chief Secretary to the Treasury Rishi Sunak says We don't need a trade deal with the EU.

Apparently trade is only "one part" of what will drive the UK's economy in the coming years and a trade agreement with the EU isn't essential.

He muttered something about "Investment infrastructure" being more important and something about "Austalia" style trade deals.

Australia doesn't have a trade deal with the EU or the UK

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 4th February 2020 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:17 AM   #2821
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
In an interview today on Sky News Chief Secretary to the Treasury Rishi Sunak says We don't need a trade deal with the EU.

Apparently trade is only "one part" of what will drive the UK's economy in the coming years and a trade agreement with the EU isn't essential.

He muttered something about "Investment infrastructure" being more important and something about "Australia" style trade deals.

Australia doesn't have a trade deal with the EU or the UK
So they'd be pretty similar then

Prepare to hear much more of such bollocks in the months to come.
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:24 AM   #2822
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Australia and the EU trade largely under the 2008 EU-Australian Partnership Framework and in 2018 started working towards an FTA.

The MRA is described https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-m...-agreements_en


https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/fi...k2009eu_en.pdf
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:23 AM   #2823
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
In an interview today on Sky News Chief Secretary to the Treasury Rishi Sunak says We don't need a trade deal with the EU.

Apparently trade is only "one part" of what will drive the UK's economy in the coming years and a trade agreement with the EU isn't essential.

He muttered something about "Investment infrastructure" being more important and something about "Austalia" style trade deals.

Australia doesn't have a trade deal with the EU or the UK
An arch Remoaner who has a Youtube channel called "A Different Bias" has noted that it's interesting that now the Brexiteers are completely in control of the process, Boris Johnson is backing away from his own deal. Not only that but Brexiteers are falling over themselves to prepare the ground to blame everyone else for the inevitable ****-storm when a no-deal Australia-style deal happens.

The thing to point our about Australia is that they have taken great care to form trade partnerships with their major trading partners.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:26 AM   #2824
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's interesting that the government is in the process of re-branding "no deal" as "Australian Deal".

I also note that talks of not allowing chlorinated chicken into the UK food chain has now been replaced by vague references to not reducing food standards and relying on scientific principles - which coincidentally is exactly the wording that the US trade negotiators have been using.

Expect a fire-sale deal with the US this year with all that means in terms of drops in food standards (with resulting difficulties in exporting food to our current biggest market, the EU) and increased US access to lucrative parts of the UK economy and restrictions on the NHS being able to negotiate on drug prices.
Your Prime Minister has instructed you to stop 'talking mumbo jumbo' about chlorinated chicken.

It is all, er, very scientific because, er, the chlorine washes off the bacteria from the excretia (not that cooking wouldn't kill them).
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:28 AM   #2825
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
One way to judge how important Brexit is to the average Brit is to look at how often it's mentioned in pantomime. The pantomime I was part of at the end of January had around a dozen (mostly negative) Brexit references and one reference to what a useless Prime Minister we have at the moment. In this, quite affluent corner of South East Wales, people care about Brexit quite a bit.

Captain Swoop often refers to pro-Brexit pub conversations in his local in the North East of England. We have fewer here but they also tend to be pro-Brexit (and IMO woefully misinformed, but that's probably my bias showing). Certainly the local farmers are looking forward to generous post-Brexit subsidies and higher prices for their produce. I suspect that they my be very disappointed if the UK agrees a trade deal with the US in which the US largely prohibits UK farming subsidies while flooding the UK market with its own highly subsidised farm produce.
And GMO corn. Don't forget the GMO corn.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:28 AM   #2826
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Even then there are economies of scale that come from US farming due to the sheer size of US farms, access to inexpensive (often illegal) labour and the highly industrialised approach to raising livestock (some elements of which are prohibited under EU law) which means that even with equivalent subsidies, UK farmers would be operating at a significant disadvantage.

Of course the US wouldn't want the UK to be allowed to subsidise UK farmers in the same way that US farmers are. It's a common theme of US trade deals and WTO complaints that whilst the US should be allowed to subsidise - directly or indirectly, subsidy by foreign countries should be forbidden.
That's a thing I have thought about before. The UK rather famously ranks animal welfare above even child welfare. I suspect there may be protests at the imposition of US rules to animals in general. People? Not so much.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:33 AM   #2827
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Perhaps the allusion to an Australia-style deal refers to the devastating effects of the bush fires recently. BoJo's scorched earth policy in which Great Britain is unleashed onto the world in this New Dawn.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:38 AM   #2828
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That's a thing I have thought about before. The UK rather famously ranks animal welfare above even child welfare. I suspect there may be protests at the imposition of US rules to animals in general. People? Not so much.
I'm sure that it'll be explained to us that in fact it's scientifically proven that washing excreta off chickens with chlorine is far better for food safety than preventing contamination in the first place and furthermore the US's comparatively high food poisoning rates actually indicate safer food than the EU because they have nothing to hide (rather like President Trump's countless lies demonstrate his fundamental honest - he has nothing to hide, why else are his lies so blatant).

Boris Johnson is on record saying US food must be safe - otherwise Americans wouldn't be so fat.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:44 AM   #2829
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Perhaps the allusion to an Australia-style deal refers to the devastating effects of the bush fires recently. BoJo's scorched earth policy in which Great Britain is unleashed onto the world in this New Dawn.


Being serious, I think that there are two main reasons why the Australia style deal is being promoted.

Firstly people in the UK still think that Australians are just Brits who live a long way away and so any deal they have must be one we'd be happy with. This ignores the fundamental shift in Australia's outlook over the last 70 years. It's no longer Britain's child, Australia rightly considers itself to be a Pacific trading nation.

Secondly, the Australian economy has done very well over the last couple of decades compared to the UK economy so anything they have must be the right thing to have. That's true but IMO that's down to digging millions of tonnes of stuff out of the ground and selling it to China - not something that's dependent on an EU deal and not something the UK can do.
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:07 AM   #2830
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm sure that it'll be explained to us that in fact it's scientifically proven that washing excreta off chickens with chlorine is far better for food safety than preventing contamination in the first place and furthermore the US's comparatively high food poisoning rates actually indicate safer food than the EU because they have nothing to hide (rather like President Trump's countless lies demonstrate his fundamental honest - he has nothing to hide, why else are his lies so blatant).
That is horribly cynical of you. Oh wait, I agree.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Boris Johnson is on record saying US food must be safe - otherwise Americans wouldn't be so fat.
Wait what really?
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:22 AM   #2831
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post


Being serious, I think that there are two main reasons why the Australia style deal is being promoted.

Firstly people in the UK still think that Australians are just Brits who live a long way away and so any deal they have must be one we'd be happy with. This ignores the fundamental shift in Australia's outlook over the last 70 years. It's no longer Britain's child, Australia rightly considers itself to be a Pacific trading nation.
That notion causes me issues. Do the Brexiteers really think that the Great British Empire will simply wash ashore on the gentle waves that they don't rule? It seems absurd on it's face, but leavers seem to actually believe it.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Secondly, the Australian economy has done very well over the last couple of decades compared to the UK economy so anything they have must be the right thing to have. That's true but IMO that's down to digging millions of tonnes of stuff out of the ground and selling it to China - not something that's dependent on an EU deal and not something the UK can do.
Britain: We will consign our poor, our criminals, and anyone we don't like to the hell hole of OZ.

Australia: No worries, we are wizards.
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:24 AM   #2832
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Australian points system. Australian deal. Next the PM will be feeding our babies to dingos.
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:28 AM   #2833
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I also note that talks of not allowing chlorinated chicken into the UK food chain has now been replaced by vague references to not reducing food standards and relying on scientific principles - which coincidentally is exactly the wording that the US trade negotiators have been using.
Translation: Boris wants to get more "Technology Lessons".
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:42 AM   #2834
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Australian points system. Australian deal. Next the PM will be feeding our babies to dingos.
The UK already has a points system for non-EU incomers. Until recently you could just bribe pay your way in if you were a rich oligarch or similar.

The sheer stupidity of copying Australia lies in the fact Australia has developed it over many decades and is specific to Australia's needs. In addition, it wanted to invite the 'right sort' of citizen in (read: non-Asian).

Now, the UK has the opposite problem. It wants people to leave the country. The EU citizens already in the UK mostly have the skills sets needed to work here successfully. EU citizens are no longer going t be attracted to the UK if they have to pay whopping £2K - £4K for a limited visa for the privilege. OK, so maybe most of this will be paid by employers with job offers.

Truth is, if the minimum salary threshold for entry drops to £25K (instead of the £30K suggested) what are employers going to do about all the catering and hospitality staff that usually come from abroad? Or Kent orchard and vegetable farmers reliant on gangs of Romanian fruit pickers (and these are very skilled and efficient) as there is no way they can suddenly afford to increase their wages from the minimum wage standard to £25K. Huge piles of produce rotting (like last year) gone to waste because the EU workers are disappearing elsewhere. Non-EU can't come in because they don't meet the salary threshold nor have job offers on a traditionally casual-basis market, where you just turn up.

Priti Patel really hasn't thought this through.
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:43 AM   #2835
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wait what really?
Not exactly those words but.....

Quote:
Boris Johnson championed American food and called for an end to “mumbo jumbo” and paranoia in a change of tone before Brexit trade talks.

The prime minister said that “pretty well-nourished” Americans disproved “hysterical fears” over the quality of agricultural produce from the US.
Well nourished being doctor code for "fat"
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Old 4th February 2020, 09:21 AM   #2836
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That notion causes me issues. Do the Brexiteers really think that the Great British Empire will simply wash ashore on the gentle waves that they don't rule? It seems absurd on it's face, but leavers seem to actually believe it.
I think we have to distinguish between the architects of Brexit and the rank and file supporters of Brexit.

In the case of the former I think that there are few illusions about what the future holds but that's fine because they personally stand to gain significantly from the turmoil which is likely to result from a messy Brexit.

In the case of the latter, IMO it's difficult to generalise. Many in the former industrial heartlands are sick to the back teeth of being of having the fuzzy end of the lollipop for decades and see Brexit as a way to break the current system without necessarily having a clear idea about what might follow. Others on the left may see Brexit as an opportunity to finally implement the workers' utopia they've been wishing for all these years. There is however a sizeable group of red-top reading middle-Englanders who genuinely think that the Commonwealth countries really do love the UK sufficiently to get great trade deals and other countries like China, Russia, Brazil, Japan and Korea will simply recognise our innate superiority and give us the trade deals we deserve.
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Old 4th February 2020, 09:24 AM   #2837
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The UK already has a points system for non-EU incomers. Until recently you could just bribe pay your way in if you were a rich oligarch or similar.

The sheer stupidity of copying Australia lies in the fact Australia has developed it over many decades and is specific to Australia's needs. In addition, it wanted to invite the 'right sort' of citizen in (read: non-Asian).

Now, the UK has the opposite problem. It wants people to leave the country. The EU citizens already in the UK mostly have the skills sets needed to work here successfully. EU citizens are no longer going t be attracted to the UK if they have to pay whopping £2K - £4K for a limited visa for the privilege. OK, so maybe most of this will be paid by employers with job offers.

Truth is, if the minimum salary threshold for entry drops to £25K (instead of the £30K suggested) what are employers going to do about all the catering and hospitality staff that usually come from abroad? Or Kent orchard and vegetable farmers reliant on gangs of Romanian fruit pickers (and these are very skilled and efficient) as there is no way they can suddenly afford to increase their wages from the minimum wage standard to £25K. Huge piles of produce rotting (like last year) gone to waste because the EU workers are disappearing elsewhere. Non-EU can't come in because they don't meet the salary threshold nor have job offers on a traditionally casual-basis market, where you just turn up.

Priti Patel really hasn't thought this through.
Any time any industry group brings up any issues associated with freedom of movement, the government response seems to be a suggestion (but never a commitment of course ) that the particular industry group may be eligible for some kind of exception from the general rule.

It's the same when there's a suggestion that Brexit will destroy an industry sector. There are suggestions but never a commitment of course - unless you're the fishing industry for some bizarre reason) that the particular industry will be in receipt of some generous subsidies.
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Old 4th February 2020, 09:29 AM   #2838
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your Prime Minister has instructed you to stop 'talking mumbo jumbo' about chlorinated chicken.

It is all, er, very scientific because, er, the chlorine washes off the bacteria from the excretia (not that cooking wouldn't kill them).
And yet the USA sees a half-million salmonella food poisoning cases (and over 350 deaths) each year. That's ten times the UK illness rate; the UK hasn't had any salmonella fatalities for several years.
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Old 4th February 2020, 09:52 AM   #2839
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There's a joke doing the rounds on social media (a variant of older ones) which is basically

US kid: Does your family pray before you eat dinner?

EU kid: No, the EU has decent food safety standards.
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Old 4th February 2020, 10:01 AM   #2840
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
There's a joke doing the rounds on social media (a variant of older ones) which is basically

US kid: Does your family pray before you eat dinner?

EU kid: No, the EU has decent food safety standards.
True. East a soft-boiled USAian egg and you have a significant risk of becoming sock, getting hospitalised (and a huge medical bill) or dying.
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