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Old 28th January 2021, 01:50 PM   #201
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Old 28th January 2021, 01:56 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well Betting on Zero is a documentary on a wallstreet mogul trying to destroy a company with a short position on it.

Of course the company is a pyramid scheme so it makes it even more questionable who is the bad guy there.
Shorts expect to make money betting that a company is overvalued. Often by publicizing what they believe is wrong with the company after taking a short position. Truthful facts about a company shouldn't be a problem for a company. If it is then what hurts/kills the company are the facts the short elucidates, not the mechanics and price of the stock which doesn't affect the company's balance sheet/income statements.
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Old 28th January 2021, 02:00 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
Shorts expect to make money betting that a company is overvalued. Often by publicizing what they believe is wrong with the company after taking a short position. Truthful facts about a company shouldn't be a problem for a company. If it is then what hurts/kills the company are the facts the short elucidates, not the mechanics and price of the stock which doesn't affect the company's balance sheet/income statements.
Reddit hasn't lied about Gamestop's business value.

You don't get to sue the team that won because you bet against them.
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Old 28th January 2021, 02:01 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"Why don't the poor invest their money"?
"OK"
"Wait stop, not like that"
"... How do you think I got to be poor in the first place?"
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Old 28th January 2021, 02:10 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Reddit hasn't lied about Gamestop's business value.

You don't get to sue the team that won because you bet against them.
Exactly. Watching Gamestop's action and the impact on hedge funds is quite entertaining. That's much of the thrill. And the upside from an overly shorted stock spiking is an opportunity. But in the long run value will out. Timing is everything and most likely there will be a lot of losers.

But none of this directly impacts Gamestop's viability as a company nor it's quarterly/annual financials in it's SEC filings.
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Old 28th January 2021, 02:16 PM   #206
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Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.
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Old 28th January 2021, 03:50 PM   #207
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Are you going for short dogs or long dogs? My friends are telling me to buy dachshunds.
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Old 28th January 2021, 03:55 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Are you going for short dogs or long dogs? My friends are telling me to buy dachshunds.
They say buy low and sell high, so go for dachshund and hope it gets legs.
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Old 28th January 2021, 04:27 PM   #209
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A share of GameStop stock is currently valued at $344, which means they would buy it from you for $12.
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Old 28th January 2021, 04:56 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.
Exactly.

A pump-and-dump isn't going to save GameStop; it's business is no longer viable. That's why it was targeted by the short-sellers in the first place.

The pump-and-dump WILL give GameStop's execs a nice consolation prize, though.
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Old 28th January 2021, 05:00 PM   #211
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Maybe they deserve a nice consolation prize, though. They had a good run. In spite of the double whammy of global-scale mail order, and the rise of streaming/downloadable content, they managed to last a lot longer than Hollywood Video and Blockbuster.
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Old 28th January 2021, 05:05 PM   #212
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That will be a matter of personal opinion. I have an ethics problem with GameStop on account of a certain abusive policy toward its employees, and for the company's COVID lockdown shenanigans in California.
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Old 28th January 2021, 05:09 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That will be a matter of personal opinion. I have an ethics problem with GameStop on account of a certain abusive policy toward its employees, and for the company's COVID lockdown shenanigans in California.
They can die in fire for undervaluing upon trade-in my PS1 copy of Vandal Hearts in 1999.
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Old 28th January 2021, 05:15 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I just got off the phone with my son, who is not taking classes this semester and so is basically an idle bum, but was following WallStreadBets on reddit before this thing took off.

It's pretty amazing stuff going on. It will take some time to figure it out, but there are at least thousands, and possibly hundreds of thousands, just like him, how are buying one and two shares at a time, making, or losing, thousands of dollars individually.

Meanwhile, the "big players", who are trading millions and billions of dollars in this stock at the same time, are going nuts as they are tossed around on the ocean of hundreds of thousands of penny ante investors.
buy the dips seems to be a recurring theme.
some citadel based brokers have stopped that though, dodgy.
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Old 28th January 2021, 05:18 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Short selling doesn't make the bankruptcy come any faster.
It does if the short sellers actively work to diss the company.
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Old 28th January 2021, 06:04 PM   #216
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I'm trying to understand how this works. Here's an analogy I'm basing off something I saw on Twitter.

Jerry has an original painting from an artist named Roy that's valued at $1,000, but who is to say what's it's really worth?

Kramer-Newman believe Roy's work is wildly over-valued. They believe Roy turns out paintings like a factory, so his pieces are certain to go down in price. Kramer-Newman rent the painting from Jerry with the intention of selling it for $950. When the painting inevitably drops in value, they'll buy it back -- maybe for as little as $100 -- and return it to Jerry.

They find a sucker named George who plops down the $950 bucks. Later that day, Roy chokes to death on Junior Mints, and all of his paintings rocket up in value. George has the best luck! Now Kramer-Newman will have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to buy back the painting and return it to Jerry.

Accepting that unique works of art are not quite like fungible shares, are these cases analogous in important respects?

I'm curious about the relationship here between the original lender and the speculators. I understand the owner is happy to rent(?) out his shares to make money, but what are the typical terms in the contract? Are the shares borrowed for a specified period of time? Can Jerry demand his painting back at any time?
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Old 28th January 2021, 07:11 PM   #217
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Hilarious! Hedge funds losing billions on shorts!

Interesting that the Robinhood app stopped members from purchasing until the hedge funds got out of Gamestop. Something a wee bit disturbing there...I'm reading that Janet Yellen received over $800K in speaking fees from Citadel, owner of Robinhood.

Was a phone call made?
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Old 28th January 2021, 07:19 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
buy the dips seems to be a recurring theme.
some citadel based brokers have stopped that though, dodgy.
From what I've read, and at this point I am treating even mainstream news sources as rumor because things are moving so fast, Robinhood was a major source of the buying activity, and the parent company (or at least a substantial investor?) had a big stake in the Melvin fund that had a huge short interest in GameStop. So, Robinhood shut down trading to try and help out the hedge fund.

That really does sound dodgy. "Hi. I'm just a stockbroker, and not the old style that gives advice, just an app that connects trades, but my important client will lose money if you keep buying this stock, so I'm not going to let you do that anymore."

Sounds dodgy. There will be plenty of room for investigations after the dust settles.
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Old 28th January 2021, 07:23 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Almost assuredly yes. Late comers to get rich schemes, historically speaking, are the ones most likely to get fleeced.
I'd have to agree. This isn't bitcoin.
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Old 28th January 2021, 08:05 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.
You think they instigated the movement in that subreddit?
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:15 PM   #221
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The trick to making money by selling short is timing, which is very tricky.l
I don't have much sympathy for either side here. I dislike the big hedge funds, but have no respect for the yahoos on Reddit who were trying to play a game they knew nothing about.
Noboey would buy such crappy stocks like Gamespot or AMC unless they were planning on selling short.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:17 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Hilarious! Hedge funds losing billions on shorts!

Interesting that the Robinhood app stopped members from purchasing until the hedge funds got out of Gamestop. Something a wee bit disturbing there...I'm reading that Janet Yellen received over $800K in speaking fees from Citadel, owner of Robinhood.

Was a phone call made?
You managed to find a way to badmouth Biden over this, I see.

And making heros out of a bunch of yahoos who tried to beat the pros at the game of selling short, and failed.
You are like many right wingers;claim to love the free market but not understanding how it operates;Hint:it usually does not like stupidity.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:21 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Long-term, the stock is likely to be a dog. This was probably a good year for them; with everybody stuck at home I'd suspect used game sales were up nicely. But games are rapidly shifting to the download model, which means the product is going to disappear. Plus they are getting a lot of competition from the mini-consoles that have come out over the last few years.
'


Download has been the main distribution format for games for many years now. Used games are a dead market (except for older games) because of DRM.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:24 PM   #224
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I hatt Hedge Companies, but the atttempts to portray the Reddit mob as some kind of heroic people's resistence is just plain idiotic. They were trying to make money by selling short just the same as the Hedge funds,but they were inept at it.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:42 PM   #225
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Gamestop, pshaw, so last week.

AMC and American Airlines are where the money is.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:42 PM   #226
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Just saw this quote from Stephen Colbert.

Quote:
Aw, that's terrible. Those poor hedge fund managers. Now might be a good time to invest in whoever manufactures the world's tiniest violins.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:50 PM   #227
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Quick, sell your Gamestop and buy AMC and American Airlines.
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Old 28th January 2021, 09:52 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You managed to find a way to badmouth Biden over this, I see.

And making heros out of a bunch of yahoos who tried to beat the pros at the game of selling short, and failed.
You are like many right wingers;claim to love the free market but not understanding how it operates;Hint:it usually does not like stupidity.
When or if I choose to badmouth Biden, you'll know it.

I think you'll find the hedge funds ultimately failed, not the "yahoos". There's a class action against Robinhood.

I love the free market. That's why I've been loading up on Bitcoin since it was $300 bucks a pop.

Stupidity is a personal view I suppose. Although I wouldn't be so careless as to tag an entire group of people with a label. People might think I was a bigot.


Good piece about Robinhood by Chris Cuomo on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fs_lyGn4YA

Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 28th January 2021 at 10:27 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 28th January 2021, 11:22 PM   #229
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I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing.

I don't know whether they constitute the chicken or the egg in terms of this particular action; but there's a lot of people who apparently equate hedge fund traders losing money with "Jews" losing money, and they are quite pleased with what's going on and are saying so.



As a supporting argument to this, it should be noted that Discord has said that it banned the WSB channel due to hate speech and misinformation, not anything to do with trading or this recent activity.
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Old 29th January 2021, 12:41 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I hatt Hedge Companies, but the atttempts to portray the Reddit mob as some kind of heroic people's resistence is just plain idiotic. They were trying to make money by selling short just the same as the Hedge funds,but they were inept at it.
Well, but if this demonstrates how corrupt the market fundamentally is with different rules for the curse that are the hedge funds, then should we not applaude these Reddit people? And were they inept if they were stopped by gaming the rules by the elites? Or should they have guessed how fixed the game is?
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Old 29th January 2021, 01:52 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yes. From their mission page:

Quote:
Robinhood’s mission is to democratize finance for all. We believe that everyone should have access to the financial markets, so we’ve built Robinhood from the ground up to make investing friendly, approachable, and understandable for newcomers and experts alike.
yanking the ability to trade on this stock, seemingly for the benefit of elite brokers, is an unforgivable sin. I imagine most people will look elsewhere for service in the future.
Let me just add that for someone who bought his first shares in the early 1990s, this "democratization of finance" is just hogwash. We've already accomplished that. OK, I can't do HFT from my laptop and there are lots of derivatives contracts that aren't available to anyone who doesn't have a billion in collateral, but for all the practical purposes that make sense, I'm now as close to an equal footing with the pros as I can. Consider:
  • I can get realtime quotes from any market. I don't have to wait until getting my hands on tomorrow's paper to know how my stocks are doing.
  • I can do real-time trades. I don't have to call my broker on the phone or go to the bank and fill a form with a pen.
  • Buying or selling is seriously cheap. If I buy shares with €500, I don't have to wait for them to go up 5% just to break even.
  • When a company issues a profit warning, publishes a quarterly report or gives out any information of note, it's available to me instantly. I may not be available to read it, but that's not the market's fault.
  • OK, I probably can't invest directly in the Vietnamese, Pakistani or Kenyan markets, but still the markets available to me as a private investor far outstrip the number of markets I can keep track of.

And yeah, I don't have to take share certificates out of my safety deposit box and go to the bank counter with a coupon to receive dividend payments either.

This was all pretty much accomplished by the time the dot.com bubble burst.
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Old 29th January 2021, 01:52 AM   #232
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Doge .01 to .05 in the past 24 hours

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Old 29th January 2021, 03:13 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing.

I don't know whether they constitute the chicken or the egg in terms of this particular action; but there's a lot of people who apparently equate hedge fund traders losing money with "Jews" losing money, and they are quite pleased with what's going on and are saying so.



As a supporting argument to this, it should be noted that Discord has said that it banned the WSB channel due to hate speech and misinformation, not anything to do with trading or this recent activity.
Having been a participant in a couple of Finnish-language online investment groups, I'm not the least bit surprised by this. I've met some bright people there too, but it seems like the issue of money combined with the complexity of the market attracts a lot of kooks. Add to this the fact that when investing in stocks becomes fashionable, you shouldn't be buying but already owning or maybe even selling, and the situation is ripe for conspiracy-minded folks to be absolutely certain that someone - or (((someone))) - is ripping them off when they don't get rich quick or at all.
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Old 29th January 2021, 03:32 AM   #234
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How to make a lot of money fast.
1. Buy a lot of stock in a small company.
2. Go to Reddit and persuade people (suckers) to buy that stock for LOLs.
3. When the price shoots up, sell your stock for a massive profit.

The price of the stock will go down, but it will be the suckers on Reddit who will lose their money.
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Old 29th January 2021, 03:35 AM   #235
Wildy
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The trick to making money by selling short is timing, which is very tricky.l
I don't have much sympathy for either side here. I dislike the big hedge funds, but have no respect for the yahoos on Reddit who were trying to play a game they knew nothing about.
Noboey would buy such crappy stocks like Gamespot or AMC unless they were planning on selling short.
Not necessarily. Since the shares are currently over shorted buying and holding can be a pretty good strategy to make money. The idea that SWB is using is somewhat similar to what Porsche did with VW shares back in 2008, or what Martin Shkreli would do in 2015 with KaloBios shares. If enough shares are locked up, or you control enough shares, then when the short sellers have to hedge their losses the price starts to increase because there aren't enough shares in circulation to cover the shorts.

That's what the WSB people are trying to do. Buy up Gamestock shares and then refuse to lend them out causing the price to rise as the short sellers have fewer shares to buy back to cover their failed bet.
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Old 29th January 2021, 05:56 AM   #236
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It's like every week has to have a weird crisis controversy. I wonder what next week's will be? I'm guessing animal attacks in a surprising place, or a celebrity going on a crime spree.
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Old 29th January 2021, 06:38 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing.
Oh noes not Jewish conspiracies related to financial control. That would be the first time that had ever happened.
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Old 29th January 2021, 06:49 AM   #238
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Heh. I got an email from Charles Schwab urging "caution" in "these unprecedented events". Managed to never actually mention Gamestop or Reddit or anything specific. No doubt they were worried that they might actually be informing customers who hadn't known about a bubble who would then rush to join in.
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Old 29th January 2021, 06:55 AM   #239
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I'm amazed at how well the media and financial institution have jumped in to respond to what, I'm assuming, is the first ever case of reckless trading in the history of the United States Economy.

It's a good thing I don't live in a world where the Wall Street Inner Circle has been playing this same game with much bigger stakes for decades with at best the implicit silence and at worst the open support of the same antics.

It's a good thing I don't live in that world.
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Old 29th January 2021, 07:06 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
This is lie. It can contribute to it.
Gamestop was a profit making machine with strong quarterly profits and growth trends before the big bad shorters came along and ruined it's reputation.
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