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Old 3rd September 2018, 02:51 AM   #321
calebprime
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One thing that seems to preoccupy some people is that pitch-classes (G#) or pitch-names with registers (G#3) don't look like music to them, but pitches on a staff (imagine a staff with a G# on it) somehow do.

There was a poster on here -- a bodybuilder -- who thought I should post using staff notation. That was a bad idea. It's much more concise to use pitch-class names.

In fact, one of my mentors, Robert Morris of Eastman, titled his book __Composition with Pitch-Classes__.

https://www.esm.rochester.edu/faculty/morris_robert/

Once in a discussion of something with John Bavicchi at Berklee, he responded to what I'd written on the blackboard with "You still haven't written any music up there." He was a different kind of composer from me. In the entire time I took classes with him, I never got the feeling that he was inpired by anything but concrete, finished music. He never spoke of theory.

And like McKinley, I suspect he wasn't much of a sketcher or planner.

McKinley was inpired by the paper, what he had to eat, the Celtics game he had on in the background. His method of composition -- 1st draft engraved in copper, transposing parts -- was utterly insane.

https://www.berklee.edu/bt/final-cadence/john-bavicchi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thomas_McKinley


The point is that methods (and their lack) vary. Some of us are more like Juan Gris than we are like Picasso (or Schoenberg.)

Of course, it would be better to have someone or something to respond to with a little substance. I can go on saying reasonable things to no effect, because I don't know if there really is something unspoken at issue, something having nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Last edited by calebprime; 3rd September 2018 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 05:23 AM   #322
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Ron, you've committed a string of no-no's for a musician.

> You announce that you're a serious musician.

> Then you respond with nothing but 2cnd-grade ignorance.

> You've done this, what, 4 or 5 times now.

Given that you don't have a point, then what are you trying to do? The musician's creed I've always believed in is showing some respect for insiders.

Your performance here is like your no-show in the chess thread, except ruder and more strange.

You've consistently used the wrong vocabulary in your questions, indicating that your background is spotty at best.

Again, if you want to discuss the merits of compositional planning vs. spontaneity, that would be a topic, for another thread -- which I've just created. You'd find (probably to your disappointment) that I've worked all kinds of ways, and have no firm opinion. Except one: If you choose "no planning" you are already making a choice, and determining the range and scope of your style/sound. (Probably, there's some luck involved.)

Even composers with ears as good as Jarrett or McKinley couldn't make large structures that really work with a method of "automatic writing" -- or so I've come to believe -- but not firmly. It's not something I'm dogmatic about.

Last edited by calebprime; 3rd September 2018 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 06:36 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Ron, are you trolling? I just said that there is 3-4 hours of finished music by me. Or more. Depends on how you count it.

I said that there was 3-4 sketches in the last year.

I've said that there's the entire body of 20th century and 21st century work by other composers.

You have to stop posting like Bart Simpson here. Your responses don't seem to indicate that you read or understand, even a little bit.

Oh, and based on your posts, you certainly have no aptitude as an editor in English. You don't understand well enough.
Ok, then can you link us to some of that music so we can get an idea of how it sounds?
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Old 3rd September 2018, 06:40 AM   #324
calebprime
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have done, over and over and over.

not for you, at this point.

read a few posts back, read my other threads

you're not going to listen to them, any way.

do a little work, I'll more than repay you, but this has gotten too ridiculous.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 07:19 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Here's an artless sketch of the first set of 3 layers, without trying too hard to separate the registers.

I've got piano/strings med high register on layer 3,
sampled low flutes and brass on layer 2,
somekinda drone on layer1.

It sounds like peanut butter but it doesn't quite sound like a train-wreck.

https://app.box.com/s/5ludifev79g8w1lz8v85uv4q1y7jh2gs
I'm sorry. Clearly you had indeed posted something and I missed it. You just post so much, it's hard to keep track.

This three layer sketch sounds pretty good! If anything, I wish it was longer.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 12:06 PM   #326
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You old softie, you. How can I hate you when when my poor narcissism -- liked an unslaked and burning cactus -- needs so desperately to be fed? watered?

But seriously, all these are serial in some way or another.

Opening the Window
https://app.box.com/s/48wc435slumb9ano9cc9

Chords with Figuration
https://app.box.com/s/daf63fb69db30e7d2cb0

Motors and some Wiffling
https://app.box.com/s/voon6xnmu56lufnlevl7

M13 with Train
https://app.box.com/s/ogrh2vtu3wdrapkgxnoa

Self-Sim Study in E Mixolydian
https://app.box.com/s/g6313n63yhhl0cbubdtt

My Doctor Says Caffeine
https://app.box.com/s/6anfk84q5x37nkzdxr9w

Starting and Stopping
https://app.box.com/s/9pst9o65y6nx67w6lj3u

Fugazzi
https://app.box.com/s/au4esop559vae2353i4n

Elusive Mr. Moy
https://app.box.com/s/0ac8fd057b0c8e44c66a

BEADS (lighten up, Dave)
https://app.box.com/s/10s67yjq1sam01o49gc4


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(from: You're Not There )

#1 --
https://app.box.com/s/j9l6i4crj879so3osy6n

#2 --
https://app.box.com/s/chtzh22eubqd4qug3sx3

#3 --
https://app.box.com/s/4ydcshb2ltwv9san0j3d

#4 --
https://app.box.com/s/at7297ejlobphgpexsm6

#8 --
https://app.box.com/s/gi33uqpfmx1476hul47s

Last edited by calebprime; 3rd September 2018 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 5th September 2018, 03:17 AM   #327
calebprime
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Heh. Back in the day I studied with McKinley, my pal Herschel studied with Robert Di Domenica.

https://www.amazon.com/First-Perform.../dp/B000005VXJ

McKinley was a confidence man, Di Domenica was a turtle. Di Domenica had a line that amounts to a philosophy, the philosophy of stoical composition, perhaps: "You'll be disappointed."

He'd say, "You'll be excited about something, you'll try it out, you'll hear it played. You'll be disappointed."

How true, though not quite in the way he intended! It's more a case of disappointment in diminishing capacities, waning libidos, stagnating mental images, changing times that render one's projects meaningless.

One thing that's never disappointed me is the moment when abstract structure becomes music, becomes expressive, or not. That's the whole point. That is always interesting, at least.

Last edited by calebprime; 5th September 2018 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:58 AM   #328
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I'm going to be practicing on a Linnstrument, so I won't be doing any 12-tone work to speak of, for a while.

The Linnstrument is a very good 8x25 (= 200 pads) midi controller. I have it tuned in fourths, approximately, in 8 rows, with 8 Pianoteq modules tuned to 46EDO. This only gives a little over 2 octaves, but that is enough to practice with to see whether my progress warrants more commitment, or rather my lack of progress suggests, kindly, going directly to hospice care for obsolete musicians.

I have my conventional keyboard tuned to another 46EDO Pianoteq module for more notes, which is hardly elegant, but it gives some idea.

Initial impression: The guitar-like layout that is possible on the Linnstrument has many advantages over a conventional keyboard. Transposing some chord is often much easier with this kind of layout.

There's a novice effect here -- I'm thrilled with anything I can play, very easy to please at this point. So far, I'm only playing in one key -- the key of A#-1.

Open question -- if this is working out, get another one? I need more notes if I'm going to be doing microtonal work.

It's a compact little keyboard, I could practice it anywhere I can take my computer -- which is to say, only right here in this tiny air-conditioned cell.

Last edited by calebprime; 7th September 2018 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 13th September 2018, 02:32 AM   #329
calebprime
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One more comment here about tunings, then maybe I go to another thread. I've been wondering for a long time about how much of the difficulty of larger EDO tunings is simply the number of pitches, how much is the conventional keyboard.

I've gone back and forth between 43 notes and 46 per octave. 46EDO doesn't fit very well on a conventional keyboard.

The Linnstrument answers the question: 46EDO is playable enough, it's the keyboard.

By now, I know that most "theoretical" questions are really about physical limitations. The 46-43 question was settled in the time it took to set up plus about one minute of thinking about it.

With a large/fast enough computer, 16 copies of Pianoteq are no problem -- works fine.

Now it's up to me. Heh.
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:17 AM   #330
calebprime
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https://app.box.com/s/im0m5wqwufu4d8819nhnmjazi4etu9qe

First little Linnstrument jam, you can hear how well 46 notes per octave approximates an overtone series with a prime as high as 13. Pretty well!
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:55 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
I like this a lot. It took me straight to non self-conscious mode, which is my gold standard. (It's the only link I clicked as of yet.) Of course writing this post sent me back to self-conscious mode.
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Old 28th October 2018, 03:18 AM   #332
calebprime
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Just a final note about 46edo on two Linnstruments, 16 midi channels.

There are some things that are only obvious, and instantly so, when you do them.

46edo is great. It's all that's needed. It was an enormous extravagence to design all those complicated tunings in anticipation of that other controller that never came. They were good tunings, but superfluous. They seem superfluous because the challenge of learning the Linnstrument is the main thing.

Second point: This is do-able. Playing 46edo on 2 Linnstr. Even if I never learn how. I am a contemptible slug, not worthy of existence, etc. Some young person should take this project on. I won't be the one, but someone else could be.


So, that's it. 46edo, yes. Linnstruments, yes.

You could learn these by noodling in front of the tv, for about a year. If you could stand it.

This is not like a recumbent bicycle. I'm not interested in novelty for novelty's sake.

I should have adhered to my stated belief that musicians should only use "off the shelf" gear, never custom-made gear. The Linnstrument qualifies as "off the shelf", because Sweetwater sells it, at least. The keyboard that never arrived was a custom project, I suppose, although others had been made. Oh well. Mucho mistrust gone down behind.

As for trying to retire, say, to will oneself to be a listener only: the boredom and self-loathing are hard to describe. I suppose I have to keep trying to do something.
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Old 28th October 2018, 06:45 AM   #333
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Probably off topic but since this thread covers composing techniques...
With my left hand injury (almost healed - yay) I have strayed out of my usual playing which has been 99% in the realm of renaissance and early baroque.

Taking a cue from John Cage and Brian Eno, I improvised 3 tracks of varying lengths independently. I then looped each of them and mixed them together over top of background crowd noise. The resultant chord/harmony intersections were essentially accidental. I am fond of it.

https://soundcloud.com/user-25118015...ops-with-crowd
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Old 28th October 2018, 07:06 AM   #334
calebprime
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You're completely welcome to post your work!

This should be considered a random music hobby thread at this point!
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Old 28th October 2018, 10:12 AM   #335
Ron_Tomkins
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
You old softie, you. How can I hate you when when my poor narcissism -- liked an unslaked and burning cactus -- needs so desperately to be fed? watered?

But seriously, all these are serial in some way or another.

Opening the Window
https://app.box.com/s/48wc435slumb9ano9cc9

Chords with Figuration
https://app.box.com/s/daf63fb69db30e7d2cb0

Motors and some Wiffling
https://app.box.com/s/voon6xnmu56lufnlevl7

M13 with Train
https://app.box.com/s/ogrh2vtu3wdrapkgxnoa

Self-Sim Study in E Mixolydian
https://app.box.com/s/g6313n63yhhl0cbubdtt

My Doctor Says Caffeine
https://app.box.com/s/6anfk84q5x37nkzdxr9w

Starting and Stopping
https://app.box.com/s/9pst9o65y6nx67w6lj3u

Fugazzi
https://app.box.com/s/au4esop559vae2353i4n

Elusive Mr. Moy
https://app.box.com/s/0ac8fd057b0c8e44c66a

BEADS (lighten up, Dave)
https://app.box.com/s/10s67yjq1sam01o49gc4


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(from: You're Not There )

#1 --
https://app.box.com/s/j9l6i4crj879so3osy6n

#2 --
https://app.box.com/s/chtzh22eubqd4qug3sx3

#3 --
https://app.box.com/s/4ydcshb2ltwv9san0j3d

#4 --
https://app.box.com/s/at7297ejlobphgpexsm6

#8 --
https://app.box.com/s/gi33uqpfmx1476hul47s
Sorry for asking, but I just need to be sure: Are all of these your compositions? I'm just listening to the first one (Opening the Window) and I love it. Somewhere around minute 2 I heard some weird sound effect that reminded me of Edgar Varese.

Then around minute 2:45 when that percussive instrument came in to restate the theme, it almost began to sound like something by Danny Elfman

I like the overall floaty feeling that it gives out.
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Old 29th October 2018, 02:47 AM   #336
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Thanks a lot, Ron. Those are all my original pieces. (My strengths and my weaknesses are fairly consistent from piece to piece. For one thing, I abuse reverb like Olive Garden abuses cheap sauces.)

That piece might be my best so far. A bunch of people have said they liked it.
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Old 29th October 2018, 04:15 AM   #337
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Not to go on too long in the glow of all this attention, but. There are a dozen or so "sample-based" or "collage" pieces that are in my collection.

One is called Wife and Garden. Wife and Garden has samples of: Pat Metheny, Peter Maxwell Davies, Jimi Hendrix, Glenn Gould. (The title comes from a sample from that movie called something like "39 Films About Glenn Gould." At the end, Gould says to the stagehand: "Give my regards to your wife and garden."

It was a collage about all forms of heroic escape to some extreme environment. Or not, staying at home with your wife and garden.

The collage pieces are obviously collages, not concealed. In one series, I used a lot of recordings I collected outside with a parabolic mic.

The serial or series-based pieces that are the focus here tend not to be collages.
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Old 29th October 2018, 10:56 AM   #338
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I really enjoyed Opening the Window as well, although I have not yet listened to the others. I hope to later today, but I want to take the time and give them a proper listen.

Opening the Window sounded great on headphones, and ended up moving in a direction I did not expect from the opening of the piece. Certain parts suggested the compositions of Sylvestrov at least to my ear. I really liked the field recordings that joined in towards the end. 10/10.
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Old 29th October 2018, 11:00 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
I'm going to be practicing on a Linnstrument, so I won't be doing any 12-tone work to speak of, for a while.
I had not yet heard of the Linnstrument, although I'm familiar with Roger Linn. I'd be tempted to get one, but it'd probably be mostly a novelty toy for me given my compositional acumen.

Going down the rabbit hole, I also discovered the ROLI Seaboard RISE 49. It looks more like a performance tool, but also looks really entertaining.
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