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Old 18th April 2020, 04:30 PM   #321
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Why don't you educate me about where the new cases in Orange County are coming from then? 28 deaths in a county of 3.2 million, with a gdp of 310 billion. First case of Covid was back on Jan 25.

You want to keep the outdoors closed? Really? Maybe where you live. Here, it doesnt seem to spread very well outside. Just look at the numbers of residents, travelers, tourists, large venues (Disneyland is just one of many!), students, etc... Still very low cases.
I don't think being outside is the reason for the low death rate in OC. Newsom's early stay at home orders have more to do with that. "Sunshine" does not 'disinfect' the coronavirus.

Orange County beaches? I lived in Orange County for several years (Fullerton). Huntington Beach, were I went, was always jammed packed. No room for any type of social distancing...and that was back in the 70's. About the only people who can go to Huntington or Sunset Beaches have to be able to get there without a car as parking is closed in the lots and closed parking meters on the streets. Those trying to park in residential neighborhoods and walk to the beach are having their cars ticketed or towed.

Disneyland has been closed since March 16.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 18th April 2020 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:35 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Maybe I've missed something. Maybe you've set walls around Orange County such that no carriers can come to where you live. Maybe the sun shines brighter on Orange County than Los Angeles County (or all of Florida - "the sunshine state"), so much so that the virus can't survive even a microsecond in the open air. Maybe Mickey Mouse has endowed Orange County with magical protection from viruses.

Maybe the OC will end up with fewer cases per capita than other areas. That would be nice for you but is it really a good reason to take stupid, unnecessary risks?

ETA: And it's not a matter of "closing the outdoors." It's a matter of closing places where people tend to gather in numbers.
OC has some of the most lax restrictions in all of California. We are on a 'soft lockdown' We do NOT have the cases many areas see in the rest of the country, despite being a big area for tourists and having a crap ton of asians.

We had some of the EARLIEST cases of covid come through (one of the first 2 or 3 cases were here). It has been here. It has spread. It is still here. It has not killed like most places.

The places it does kill here seem to be isolated elder communities. Please have some common sense as to how you deal with a society at lower risk. This is NOT NYC.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 18th April 2020 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:40 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Maybe I've missed something. Maybe you've set walls around Orange County such that no carriers can come to where you live. Maybe the sun shines brighter on Orange County than Los Angeles County (or all of Florida - "the sunshine state"), so much so that the virus can't survive even a microsecond in the open air. Maybe Mickey Mouse has endowed Orange County with magical protection from viruses.

Maybe the OC will end up with fewer cases per capita than other areas. That would be nice for you but is it really a good reason to take stupid, unnecessary risks?

ETA: And it's not a matter of "closing the outdoors." It's a matter of closing places where people tend to gather in numbers.
I don't know if this is the case, but a breeze should help carry one's expectorant farther. Folk downwind of an infected person might be at risk several or more meters distant, or *far* beyond the 6-foot guideline.

In any event, popular open spaces in heavily populated conurbations can become potentially more dangerous than the indoors. At least with uncontrolled ingress of people one would never otherwise encounter. A park or beach can become a mighty good nexus for infection.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:45 PM   #324
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
OC has some of the most lax restrictions in all of California. We are on a 'soft lockdown' We do NOT have the cases many areas see in the rest of the country, despite being a big area for tourists and having a crap ton of asians.
Yeah, I get it. Mixing in some racism makes you very clear.

Your "lax restrictions" are a result of politics, not intelligence. I just hope your neighbors don't end up suffering for it because your OC exceptionalism won't kill the virus any more effectively than your weather.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:45 PM   #325
Sherkeu
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think being outside is the reason for the low death rate in OC. Newsom's early stay at home orders have more to do with that. "Sunshine" does not 'disinfect; the coronavirus.

Orange County beaches? I lived in Orange County for several years (Fullerton). Huntington Beach, were I went, was always jammed packed. No room for any type of social distancing...and that was back in the 70's. About the only people who can go to Huntington or Sunset Beaches have to be able to get there without a car as parking is closed in the lots and closed parking meters on the streets. Those trying to park in residential neighborhoods and walk to the beach are having their cars ticketed or towed.

Disneyland has been closed since March 16.
Yep.. Crowded in popular places, especially in sunny weather! So where are all the mass cases here? It certainly has been here. All you need to do is look at who lives here to know we were a big target!

Why did we dodge the bullet?
Still, even today, the county hardly has any testing. For some reason the state feels we are not a priority compared to other areas. We have such a high gdp that if we were a major risk, there should be a HUGE drive to test here. And they didnt, and still don't. Are they just stupid?

Maybe we are just waiting for a big surge and should blame a future explosion of cases on the lack of attention from the state. I dont think so.

I always said our cases will be more mild (see my posts from early March) and it will hit harder is colder areas.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:46 PM   #326
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Maybe both policy and individual behaviour could be directed by the consensus of experts and not lay speculation. Just a thought.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:52 PM   #327
Sherkeu
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Yeah, I get it. Mixing in some racism makes you very clear.
Racism? hahahahahahahahahahaahah

If you knew me this would be soooo laughable. Just consider yourself wrong.
Saying that a lot of people we know around here travel to Asia (including ourselves) is not 'racist'. Thinking asians may travel to asia more than other people isnt 'racist.

Just ridiculous. ISF... home of "Everything Is Racist".
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:56 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Racism? hahahahahahahahahahaahah

If you knew me this would be soooo laughable. Just consider yourself wrong.
Saying that a lot of people we know around here travel to Asia (including ourselves) is not 'racist'. Thinking asians may travel to asia more than other people isnt 'racist.

Just ridiculous. ISF... home of "Everything Is Racist".
If you get accused of racism, don't get defensive and say the forum is the home of "Everything is racist". That makes you actually look racist.

For the record, I don't believe you are.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:57 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
What those people REALLY need is a hug. A BIG GROUP HUG!!

While chanting something, loudly. Somethings with lots of "fffff" and "ssss" sounds and any other sounds that might sometimes prompt people to say "Say it, don't spit it".

Then they'll all feel better. And if they get sick, they'll just blame it on the libs anyway.

... and kisses. Lots and lots of kisses.

A really great hug involves a smooch at the end.

... on the lips
... wet
... with some tongue action

And they should all do that with each other at least every 35 minutes throughout the day, just to be sure that nobody gets left out and everyone feels well loved.
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Old 18th April 2020, 05:06 PM   #330
Sherkeu
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
If you get accused of racism, don't get defensive and say the forum is the home of "Everything is racist". That makes you actually look racist.
You are right. I should have said that it is a place more likely for something to be construed by some as racist simply because race (or nationality) is mentioned, no matter the context. But I am not on social media so maybe it is worse there.

I will try to not react to single posters this way in the future.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 18th April 2020 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 05:17 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
I should have said that it is a place more likely for something to be construed by some as racist simply because race (or nationality) is mentioned, no matter the context.
Exactly. You don't want to be like those Swiss.
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Old 18th April 2020, 05:22 PM   #332
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Just looking around quickly. Disneyland is closed. OC's first case was in early March not on January 25th. OC.gov The curve is pretty steep. OC dot gov's chart shows 563 cases on April 1st. It was over 1,000 on April 9th. Today it's over 1,500.

This is from the local Orange County news site, the Orange County Register:
Quote:
In Orange County, another 63 new cases of the virus were noted in Saturday’s update, with 24 of 25 hospitals reporting. The county reported another 1,245 people have been tested for coronavirus, the most of any day since the outbreak began. The total number of tests in the county is 17,616 – that works out to about 54.7 residents per 10,000.

Some 39% of cases reported (611 total) in the county were among those ages 45 to 64; 20 percent (316 total) were among those 65 and older and 10 percent were younger than 25. Some 56 percent of those who have died (18) were 65 or older. Link
"Huntington Beach’s popular shoreline was deserted – like a scene from the ‘Twilight Zone.’" - Orange County Register, March 26, 2020.
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Old 18th April 2020, 05:46 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Just looking around quickly. Disneyland is closed. OC's first case was in early March not on January 25th. OC.gov The curve is pretty steep. OC dot gov's chart shows 563 cases on April 1st. It was over 1,000 on April 9th. Today it's over 1,500.
The first person to come into the county with it was Jan 25. It was a 55 year old man who recovered. Perhaps they are not counting travelers. Most in the early days were air travel or cruises.

Our county has 3.2 MILLION people. Please keep things in perspective.

I do think this virus is dangerous and very very contagious. However, it is less pervasive in areas with better weather that are more spread out.

USA has deaths at 118/mil.
NY is at 901/mil,
Calif. is at 29/mil.

Acting like these are all to be treated the same is silly.
Some places have natural distancing. Everywhere will get it. No place can close for 18 months. Be smart and open up areas that can handle it.
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Old 18th April 2020, 06:21 PM   #334
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The flaw in this argument seems to be -- in all these arguments -- my county is on shutdown and the numbers are fairly low. Therefore we should relax the shutdown. If you think about it, that really doesn't make too much sense.

Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Yep.. Crowded in popular places, especially in sunny weather! So where are all the mass cases here? It certainly has been here. All you need to do is look at who lives here to know we were a big target!

Why did we dodge the bullet?
Still, even today, the county hardly has any testing...
The popular places in Orange County aren't crowded, they're closed. There is testing being done. This is from today's Orange County Register:
Quote:
The county reported another 1,245 people have been tested for coronavirus, the most of any day since the outbreak began. The total number of tests in the county is 17,616 – that works out to about 54.7 residents per 10,000. Link
Orange County hasn't dodged the bullet. You're still in the line of fire.
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Old 18th April 2020, 06:53 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The flaw in this argument seems to be -- in all these arguments -- my county is on shutdown and the numbers are fairly low. Therefore we should relax the shutdown. If you think about it, that really doesn't make too much sense.



The popular places in Orange County aren't crowded, they're closed. There is testing being done. This is from today's Orange County Register:


Orange County hasn't dodged the bullet. You're still in the line of fire.
Windy has Newport Beach at a nice balmy 59 degrees with clouds so maybe not so many people today.
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Old 18th April 2020, 07:34 PM   #336
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It's a shame that this conversation about the virus in Orange County, California is not happening in the Science/Medicine Forum.
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:05 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Social distancing is communism.
In Soviet Russia, distancing socializes you!
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:39 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's a shame that this conversation about the virus in Orange County, California is not happening in the Science/Medicine Forum.
Well here's some politics for you:

Appears these 'liberate' protests are mostly (perhaps all) astroturf efforts. At least some DeVos money (that's the family of Trump Sec. Ed. Betsy DeVos) appears to be behind them.
Devos funded group organizes protest against Michigan governor.

Redditor does some digging with whois, finds protest sites were registered by the same person at the same time
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Space Force.
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:43 PM   #339
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Poor sterilization practices led to a one-month delay in CDC Corona test kits.

Quote:
Problems ranged from researchers entering and exiting the coronavirus laboratories without changing their coats, to test ingredients being assembled in the same room where researchers were working on positive coronavirus samples, officials said. Those practices made the tests sent to public health labs unusable because they were contaminated with the coronavirus, and produced some inconclusive results.

In a statement Saturday, a spokeswoman for the FDA, Stephanie Caccomo, said, “CDC did not manufacture its test consistent with its own protocol.”

Forced to suspend the launch of a nationwide detection program for the coronavirus for a month, the CDC lost credibility as the nation’s leading public health agency and the country lost ground in ways that continue to haunt grieving families, the sick and the worried well from one state to the next.
Link


How do we blame this on Trump?
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:50 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Poor sterilization practices led to a one-month delay in CDC Corona test kits.

Link


How do we blame this on Trump?
Because he wasn't on top of the problem.

How many tests did we need? Was the CDC capable of making that many? If the CDC's tests had not been flawed, there would still not have been enough. So, even without the delay from CDC, there was a problem. Then, the CDC failure was revealed, and that made a bad problem worse.

Also, how much time passed between the apparent failure of CDC tests and the time the Trump administration started asking questions. There are certain things that the President, and only the President, can do. Staying right on top of the details of how we were going to test for this virus, and then ordering action at the moment it appears that there will not be adequate testing, is something that Donald Trump could have done, but he didn't.

It really is his fault.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:01 PM   #341
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I think the main takeaway for me is that Orange County is just as obnoxious and lame as I thought it was in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, and 2010s. It is basically the armpit of SoCal
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:12 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Because he wasn't on top of the problem.

How many tests did we need? Was the CDC capable of making that many? If the CDC's tests had not been flawed, there would still not have been enough. So, even without the delay from CDC, there was a problem. Then, the CDC failure was revealed, and that made a bad problem worse.

Also, how much time passed between the apparent failure of CDC tests and the time the Trump administration started asking questions. There are certain things that the President, and only the President, can do. Staying right on top of the details of how we were going to test for this virus, and then ordering action at the moment it appears that there will not be adequate testing, is something that Donald Trump could have done, but he didn't.

It really is his fault.
If I may add:

Trump was who appointed the current Director of the CDC, a man with unorthodox ideas about disease control.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...lling-viruses/

In addition, all of Trump’s budget proposals have proposed big cuts to CDC funding, although Congress has intervened each time to pass spending bills with year-over-year increases for the CDC.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:45 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Also, how much time passed between the apparent failure of CDC tests and the time the Trump administration started asking questions.
That's a good question, do you know the answer? I don't, but I assume you do since you went straight from the question to knowing the Trump administration was wrong, whether it was five minutes or five weeks before they started asking questions.

Quote:
There are certain things that the President, and only the President, can do.
Evidence that the president, and only the president, can change FDA regulations to allow private labs and state university labs to start developing their own tests?

Quote:
Staying right on top of the details of how we were going to test for this virus, and then ordering action at the moment it appears that there will not be adequate testing, is something that Donald Trump could have done, but he didn't.
Again, do you have evidence that there was any delay in action once the administration found out?

Quote:
It really is his fault.
I know, I know #ORANGEMANBAD
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:57 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Poor sterilization practices led to a one-month delay in CDC Corona test kits.

How do we blame this on Trump?
I don’t think that will be necessary.

The list of things that he and his administration have screwed up is already tragically long.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:07 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
That's a good question, do you know the answer? I don't, but I assume you do since you went straight from the question to knowing the Trump administration was wrong, whether it was five minutes or five weeks before they started asking questions.
No, the Trump administration would have been wrong either way, because the maximum possible testing that the CDC could have done would have been inadequate, and they did nothing. At least, nothing in a timely fashion.

The question about timing was just an "also" question, to see if there was something else that they did wrong. I do remember seeing news reports questioning the CDC test before I heard anything from the Trump administration, so I suspected there was something wrong. I'll see if I can find anything to confirm that memory.

To bring up a rather high profile error from Trump on that subject, he was asked about testing while touring the CDC and made his famous remark about "anyone who wants a test gets a test". That is still not true today, and it certainly wasn't true then, with or without contaminated tests.

He was simply wrong. He did what he does again and again. He declared that someone else was solving the problem and that it was just fantastic, but it wasn't. He didn't actually know the actual state of test availability, or the actual level of need. He just declared that everything was great, and did not take further action.

It really was his fault. That's the problem with being the boss. People not only expect you to do your job, they expect you to know whether the people who work for you are doing theirs, and as if that was not bad enough, they expect you not to just handle the problems that appear on your desk, but they also expect you to catch problems before they become crises. Being President is a tough job. Not many of us could do it well. Donald Trump is one of those people who doesn't have what it takes.

Quote:
Evidence that the president, and only the president, can change FDA regulations to allow private labs and state university labs to start developing their own tests?
Seriously? He did it, didn't he? That's evidence he can. No one else could do it could they? Ok.

I suppose it's possible that, for that specific instance, there might be other officials who could also do it. I'm really not sure, but there are plenty of things that those people could not do. Suppose they need more money to do those things. The President can't fix that. Or suppose there is a law that says it cannot be done, and his lawyers tell him that he doesn't have the power, he can't do that. On the other hand, he can pick up the phone and say, "Mitch, Nancy. We have a big problem and I need you guys to fix it." And he's the only one that can do that.

He can't make Nancy go along, so if she doesn't, then you can blame Nancy, but I don't think that's the case here.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:09 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
If I may add:

Trump was who appointed the current Director of the CDC, a man with unorthodox ideas about disease control.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...lling-viruses/

In addition, all of Trump’s budget proposals have proposed big cuts to CDC funding, although Congress has intervened each time to pass spending bills with year-over-year increases for the CDC.

If I may ask:

How did the CDC director's unorthodox ideas delay the CDC's response to coronavirus testing?

How did Trump's proposed budget cuts delay the CDC's response to coronavirus testing?
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:12 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I know, I know #ORANGEMANBAD
“Orange Man is dangerously incompetent and now people are dying” would probably make for a more accurate hashtag.

But in fairness, it doesn’t roll off the tongue as nicely.

Last edited by johnny karate; 18th April 2020 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:16 PM   #348
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Again, do you have evidence that there was any delay in action once the administration found out?
From your link:

"'It was just tragic,' said Scott Becker, executive director of the Association of Public Health Laboratories. 'All that time when we were sitting there waiting, I really felt like, here we were at one of the most critical junctures in public health history, and the biggest tool in our toolbox was missing.'
Becker said that public health laboratories started receiving the CDC kits on Feb. 7, and by the next day members were already calling him to report that the test was not working accurately. He alerted both the CDC and the FDA, which regulates medical devices, including laboratory tests."


So, February 7, problems were reported. I wouldn't expect Trump to do something on February 8, but I would expect a good President to know about the problem by no later than February 10, and announce some sort of action no later than February 12.

He didn't. It really is his fault.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:18 PM   #349
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
How did the CDC director's unorthodox ideas delay the CDC's response to coronavirus testing?
The CDC screwed up and you need someone to explain to you why the guy in charge of the CDC is responsible?

I know it’s not an easy time to be a Trump apologist, but come on. Try harder.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:20 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
If I may ask:

How did the CDC director's unorthodox ideas delay the CDC's response to coronavirus testing?

How did Trump's proposed budget cuts delay the CDC's response to coronavirus testing?
For one thing, Trump banned the use of tests from other countries while the CDC was fumbling. And he did it on purpose.

Report: Trump Dropped the Ball on Coronavirus Testing Because He Only Wanted Good News
The president is worried about the ballot box in November, not the health of Americans
Quote:
President Trump has demonstrated on several occasions that he views the coronavirus pandemic not through the lens of keeping Americans safe, but of how it will impact his re-election chances. He all but said as much last week, telling reporters that he’d rather keep passengers on a Grand Princess cruise ship who tested positive out of America because “he likes the numbers being where they are.”

The same day, Dan Diamond of Politico reported on how Trump has “undermined his administration’s own efforts to fight the coronavirus outbreak” by “resisting attempts to plan for worst-case scenarios, overturning a public-health plan upon request from political allies and repeating only the warnings that he chose to hear.”

... Trump hasn’t been pushing for aggressive testing because he’s “made clear the lower the numbers on coronavirus … the better for his potential reelection this fall.”...

“We can at best do 10,000 tests/day. We should be able to do millions,” Andy Slavitt, the Acting Administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services under President Obama, noted in a Twitter thread. “All of this could have ramped up and solved in January & February and right now we would be talking about containment. We could have also allowed labs to produce tests earlier or gotten WHO tests. We did not. Why? In part Federal workers could not be seen contradicting Trump.”
And don't try to dismiss this because the source is Rolling Stone because the reports are all over the news, take your pick of sources.

I suppose if you only watch Fox and read from the right-wing echo-chamber you probably missed all that.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:51 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
No, the Trump administration would have been wrong either way, because the maximum possible testing that the CDC could have done would have been inadequate, and they did nothing. At least, nothing in a timely fashion.
I disagree. If the CDC hadn't screwed up, it is possible they could have produced enough test kits early on to determine the infection rates were much higher than anticipated and they could've asked the state and private sector labs to pick up the slack, which they are doing now. To expect the Trump administration to know that the CDC was going to screw up the test kits, which only they were allowed to produce at the time, is nothing more than fantasty.


Quote:
Seriously? He did it, didn't he? That's evidence he can. No one else could do it could they? Ok.
No, not ok. You stated as fact there were things only the president can do. I'm not doing your research for you.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:55 PM   #352
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Another argument (as if more were needed) for universal health care:
Quote:
No one has a count of exactly how many people have lost their health plans, but there are clues. About 22 million workers have filed unemployment claims since mid-March, according to the most recent federal figures, and that includes only the people who have gotten through to clogged state workforce offices. The latest census data show that job-based coverage accounted for 55 percent of Americans’ health insurance, though the kinds of work disappearing the most — restaurant jobs and others in the service industry — have always been less likely to offer health benefits.

The Economic Policy Institute, a nonpartisan think tank, estimates that 9.2 million U.S. residents were at high risk of having lost coverage during the past four weeks. The consulting firm Health Management Associates forecasts that perhaps 12 million to 35 million people will lose job-based insurance because of the pandemic, on top of the 27.5 million who were uninsured before the virus arrived.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...2b7_story.html
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:10 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
From your link:

He didn't. It really is his fault.
Who in the CDC and FDA was this information passed to and when did they inform someone in the Trump administration who was in a position to pass it on to someone who could do something about it?
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:18 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
The CDC screwed up and you need someone to explain to you why the guy in charge of the CDC is responsible?

I know it’s not an easy time to be a Trump apologist, but come on. Try harder.
Which unorthodox idea of Redfield's allowed lab technicians to break protocol and contaminate the tests?
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:26 PM   #355
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Let's look at some more Trump facts because this stuff should not be forgotten as Trump piles **** upon **** burying his past ****.

Trump's staff cuts have undermined Covid-19 containment efforts, watchdog finds
Quote:
Over the past three years, the Trump administration has drastically reduced a team working in China to identify global health threats like Covid-19, which originated in the Chinese city of Wuhan late last year. The initiative’s 11 CDC staffers have been cut to three people, while 39 workers classed as “local employees” have been reduced to 11 people.

The administration disbanded the national security council’s directorate charged with global health and has sought to go further still, requesting budget cuts from the CDC of up to 20% for each of the past three years, only to be rebuffed by Congress. Trump’s effort to dismantle the Affordable Care Act would also have reduced the CDC’s funding by around 8% a year.

The CDC has still undergone an “erosion of budget and staff under Trump” but without Congress’s defiance “thousands more Americans would likely die over the next few months because of even more reduced capacity at the CDC”, according to the report, compiled by the Environmental Data and Governance Initiative (EDGI)....

The report, which draws upon publicly available federal government records, highlights a lengthy list of actions by the Trump administration that has risked turning the spread of the coronavirus into an even greater disaster....

...“The administration has repeatedly and systematically corroded critical parts of the CDC,” Sellers said. “This was just begging for an epidemic to hit us. It was a perfect storm of lack of preparation.”
He did everything he could to cut the public health budget, no doubt because he didn't see any use for it. Not like building that wall and kicking brown people out of the country, that's an election winner for sure.

Then whoops, he got rid of all the fire-fighting equipment and staff and when the fire started there was nothing to stop it with. Quick, blame every one else and pretend your blocking some Wuhan citizens was bold and decisive yada yada.

As late as Feb this year he was still trying to cut the CDC budget.
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:44 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And don't try to dismiss this because the source is Rolling Stone because the reports are all over the news, take your pick of sources.

I suppose if you only watch Fox and read from the right-wing echo-chamber you probably missed all that.
I won't dismiss the source but I will ask you to quote and highlight where it says Trump banned coronavirus tests from other countries.


Not to drag this thread off topic, but I can't help myself and I need to prove a point: there were hundreds of thousands of reports all over the news saying Trump colluded with Russia to win the election – they were all wrong. A popular lie is still a lie.
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Old 19th April 2020, 12:06 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I won't dismiss the source but I will ask you to quote and highlight where it says Trump banned coronavirus tests from other countries.


Not to drag this thread off topic, but I can't help myself and I need to prove a point: there were hundreds of thousands of reports all over the news saying Trump colluded with Russia to win the election – they were all wrong. A popular lie is still a lie.
Here you are:
Quote:
All of this could have ramped up and solved in January & February and right now we would be talking about containment. We could have also allowed labs to produce tests earlier or gotten WHO tests. We did not. Why? In part Federal workers could not be seen contradicting Trump.”
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 19th April 2020, 12:59 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Who in the CDC and FDA was this information passed to and when did they inform someone in the Trump administration who was in a position to pass it on to someone who could do something about it?
That's the wrong question. Trump knew, or should have known, that testing was incredibly important. He should not have been waiting for someone to tell him something. He should be asking, perhaps a better word would be demanding, the information. Are the tests successful? How many do you need? How many can you make? When will they be available?

He's the President of the United States. He can get answers from government officials. He, and only he, can pick up the phone and make things happen. He didn't.

It really is his fault. Heavy lies the head that bears the crown. Suck it up, Trump. The buck stops with you.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 19th April 2020 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 19th April 2020, 01:18 AM   #359
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I won't dismiss the source but I will ask you to quote and highlight where it says Trump banned coronavirus tests from other countries..
Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I disagree. If the CDC hadn't screwed up, it is possible they could have produced enough test kits early on to determine the infection rates were much higher than anticipated and they could've asked the state and private sector labs to pick up the slack, which they are doing now. To expect the Trump administration to know that the CDC was going to screw up the test kits, which only they were allowed to produce at the time, is nothing more than fantasty.


No, not ok. You stated as fact there were things only the president can do. I'm not doing your research for you.
I don't know if that source that I hilited is reputable, but maybe you can do some research and see where he was getting his data.

ETA: And, Trump eventually fixed the problem that only the CDC was allowed to produce test kits at the time. He did a lot of things, eventually.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 19th April 2020 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 19th April 2020, 01:36 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I wonder if it's legal to get married over Zoom?
It is now in New York
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