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Old 29th May 2020, 01:22 PM   #641
turingtest
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Nice one. Thanks for the link. I liked the video and did my own search. This one was very informative:

What is a MAGNETRON - How Does it Work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DpYlnHT-0s

There is a side benefit. I have two old non-working microwave ovens. I was considering fixing them because the parts are not expensive. The diode and the magnetron. Good advice about the beryllium.

I found myself rather "down" the last two days. I did not want to get on here and be subjected to abuse. That is unusual for me. I pride myself on being tough mentally and physically and never shying from confrontation. Mood is another another subtle effect of the microwaves from the tower. The last few nights I have had muscle pain across my shoulders as it I am under stress. The EMF causes my nerves to be artificially stimulated. This is in addition to the mental stress physically induced by the Emfs.

The population will find that depression and suicide may be increased. Of course, the causes can be attributed to any of a hundred factors. But if electrosmog makes primary causes worse, and affects the functioning of society then I would say that it is a concern. It might be some-ones child that commits suicide because of electrosmog. It is a personal lesson. I rarely feel "down". Sometimes I do not feel in the mood to do something and can procrastinate but that is different to what I have felt in the past few days.

To posters other than Roger. Feel free to reject this bit of information. It is for my benefit, not yours.

But back to the topic of MW ovens and pulsation. I was wrong to state that there was no pulsation. Commercial MW ovens are very cheap and my link mentions the short cuts they take. It is possible to do full wave rectification and get continuously energy out, but the cost would be much greater.

There are two issues with MW ovens. I use one for 1.5 minutes to heat my morning oats. I am often away from the oven when it is heating. This is a very short period. One time I measured the output I got very little but another time I got quite a bit on the meter. I suspect the door seal may be a problem but did not follow up. So the dose in terms of time is very low.

The next issue is the type of pulsation. Most meters have an audio signal to indicate what sort of signal one is getting. The meter companies put out samples. The oven reading has a smooth tone. But I will redo my testing and download the audios which I have not yet done.

The period of the pulsation is quite low. It is not the same as the cell phone tower output. One cannot compare a single cell phone to a tower for a multiple of reasons but the cell companies are constantly doing so. The biggest reason they want to downplay towers is that one can choose not to use a cell phone but one cannot turn off the tower.

What is interesting is that if the cell companies chose to operate at maximum output all the time it may not be as harmful.

The issue of harm is quite complex. I hear from people who are affected by masts. One told me that they are aware of the difference between 2G, 3G and 4G. They also know when the loading on the tower changes.

The science studies which deal with the pulsation issue have determined that some pulsation patterns are worse that others. It all has to do with the way the ion channels in the cells behave and try to adapt to the environment. With a steady emf signal it seems they compensate a little, although there is still effects. With a high pulsation rate, the extra stress on the cell is sort of filtered out. Unfortunately the cell phone pulsation rates seem to be maximally bad.

So thanks for the info, Roger. I have learned some lessons today.
Here's an idea- don't get on here for a few days, stay off and do that simple test that was proposed and that, IIRC, you said sounded like a fair test and that you would do. That way, instead of getting on here with the potential for abuse for typing out these long and rather tedious explanations for why you're right, you can post a simple result that shows that you were. Really, nobody cares if you're actually the polymath genius you keep puffing yourself up as by these harumph! harumph! expositions of how you had to step in to save the day when the experts couldn't figure out a problem- they're all beside the point, which is not whether your abilities actually match your ego, but whether your one claim can be shown to be correct. You don't need to explain in such ponderous detail what you haven't even shown to be true yet, and which could be shown so by a simple test you yourself agreed to- I'm beginning to wonder if all the prolixity isn't just a way to avoid the simplicity.
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Old 29th May 2020, 01:36 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I did not want to get on here and be subjected to abuse.
There's a button to report abuse at the bottom of every post. Why not simply use it?

Quote:
The issue of harm is quite complex. I hear from people who are affected by masts. One told me that they are aware of the difference between 2G, 3G and 4G. They also know when the loading on the tower changes.
And the blinded test during which they demonstrated this ability is documented where?
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Old 29th May 2020, 05:37 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Here's an idea- don't get on here for a few days, stay off and do that simple test that was proposed and that, IIRC, you said sounded like a fair test and that you would do. That way, instead of getting on here with the potential for abuse for typing out these long and rather tedious explanations for why you're right, you can post a simple result that shows that you were. Really, nobody cares if you're actually the polymath genius you keep puffing yourself up as by these harumph! harumph! expositions of how you had to step in to save the day when the experts couldn't figure out a problem- they're all beside the point, which is not whether your abilities actually match your ego, but whether your one claim can be shown to be correct. You don't need to explain in such ponderous detail what you haven't even shown to be true yet, and which could be shown so by a simple test you yourself agreed to- I'm beginning to wonder if all the prolixity isn't just a way to avoid the simplicity.
Well hell, that's a word i didn't know before.

Last edited by p0lka; 29th May 2020 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:07 PM   #644
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It's now three weeks since PartSkeptic agreed to do a simple blind test of his claim to be able to tell whether or not the wifi is switched on from his physical symptoms.
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:39 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
It's now three weeks since PartSkeptic agreed to do a simple blind test of his claim to be able to tell whether or not the wifi is switched on from his physical symptoms.

He might have already done it.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:04 AM   #646
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Just a quick post in the middle of reading some news. Here is an article:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...me/5215914002/

Deaths by COVID-19, the disease brought on by the coronavirus, has garnered much of the nation’s attention, especially as U.S. fatalities surpassed 100,000 this week. But many of the more than 1.7 million Americans who've contracted the disease are confronting puzzling, lingering symptoms, including aches, anxiety attacks, night sweats, rapid heartbeats, breathing problems and loss of smell or taste. Many are living a life unrecognizable from the one they had before.



Aches, anxiety, rapid heart beat. These are similar symptoms of exposure to EMFs. See my last post. People with EHS usually have underlying sensitivities such as chemical intolerance. I have probably been floxed and developed systemic histoplasmosis as a result.

Here is the attitude of medical science and skeptics to being floxed. The science caught up with what people were discovering anecdotally.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-03267-5

For decades, regulatory agencies and the medical profession were sceptical that a brief course of antibiotics could have such a devastating, long-term impact. But after persistent campaigning by patient groups, attitudes began to change in 2008, when the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced the first of what would be a series of strong alerts about the side effects of fluoroquinolone drugs, including tendon rupture and irreversible nerve damage.


Since Covid is a respiratory illness and fluoroquinolone is very strong and effective and is used for respiratory infections one wonders how many got the drug. If so - double whammy.

So we have some more lessons.

1. Did EMFs make these people susceptible to getting seriously ill when having Covid, and is EMFs causing some (note some) of the problems? Are EMFs a catalyst or trigger for illness?

2. Patient groups led the charge. Are EHS groups leading the EMF charge?

God forced me to learn (the hard way) about these things. Bat fungus, fluoroquinolone, and EMFs. When seen in the light of a pandemic warning from God my suspicions are that there are connections.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:06 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
He might have already done it.
...and cognitively dissonanced it.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:07 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Aches, anxiety, rapid heart beat. These are similar symptoms of exposure to EMFs.
Links to the scientific papers which have established this, please.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:10 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
There's a button to report abuse at the bottom of every post. Why not simply use it?
(snip)

What part of my stand about free speech did you not understand?

It has been my experience that I get taunted and when I respond in kind I get banned. And also other can go off-topic but when I do it I also get banned. Kinda like the Twitter bias?

I think some people would prefer that these topics not be discussed, but are happy as long as there is a blizzard of nay-sayers using the industry propaganda to swamp any points I make.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:16 AM   #650
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I think some people would prefer that these topics not be discussed, but are happy as long as there is a blizzard of nay-sayers using the industry propaganda to swamp any points I make.
....or relabel it as industry propaganda, Mojo.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:35 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
What part of my stand about free speech did you not understand?

It has been my experience that I get taunted and when I respond in kind I get banned. And also other can go off-topic but when I do it I also get banned. Kinda like the Twitter bias?

I think some people would prefer that these topics not be discussed, but are happy as long as there is a blizzard of nay-sayers using the industry propaganda to swamp any points I make.
This forum is allowing you to spew your unsupported and dangerous conspiracy theory without hindrance, a better example of free speech would be difficult to find. The mods would certainly action any reported abuse, which has been noticably absent. I doubt you could find a single example of "abuse" (i.e. criticism) which is actionable under the MA.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:59 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Just a quick post in the middle of reading some news. Here is an article:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...me/5215914002/

Deaths by COVID-19, the disease brought on by the coronavirus, has garnered much of the nation’s attention, especially as U.S. fatalities surpassed 100,000 this week. But many of the more than 1.7 million Americans who've contracted the disease are confronting puzzling, lingering symptoms, including aches, anxiety attacks, night sweats, rapid heartbeats, breathing problems and loss of smell or taste. Many are living a life unrecognizable from the one they had before.



Aches, anxiety, rapid heart beat. These are similar symptoms of exposure to EMFs. See my last post. People with EHS usually have underlying sensitivities such as chemical intolerance. I have probably been floxed and developed systemic histoplasmosis as a result.

Here is the attitude of medical science and skeptics to being floxed. The science caught up with what people were discovering anecdotally.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-03267-5

For decades, regulatory agencies and the medical profession were sceptical that a brief course of antibiotics could have such a devastating, long-term impact. But after persistent campaigning by patient groups, attitudes began to change in 2008, when the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced the first of what would be a series of strong alerts about the side effects of fluoroquinolone drugs, including tendon rupture and irreversible nerve damage.


Since Covid is a respiratory illness and fluoroquinolone is very strong and effective and is used for respiratory infections one wonders how many got the drug. If so - double whammy.

So we have some more lessons.

1. Did EMFs make these people susceptible to getting seriously ill when having Covid, and is EMFs causing some (note some) of the problems? Are EMFs a catalyst or trigger for illness?

2. Patient groups led the charge. Are EHS groups leading the EMF charge?

God forced me to learn (the hard way) about these things. Bat fungus, fluoroquinolone, and EMFs. When seen in the light of a pandemic warning from God my suspicions are that there are connections.

The suggestion that your symptoms could be caused by something other than the phone masts doesn’t strengthen your case that your symptoms are caused by the phone masts.
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Old 30th May 2020, 01:08 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The suggestion that your symptoms could be caused by something other than the phone masts doesn’t strengthen your case that your symptoms are caused by the phone masts.
I've been trying for the last 20 minutes to unconvolute that post. As far as I can make out, it goes something like this:

1. Get flu or some other respiratory malady.
2. Take antibiotics.
3. Body weakened by antibiotics.
4. Get COVID.
5. Declare that EMFs cause COVID.

He's fishing for something, anything, that will stick.
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Old 30th May 2020, 01:15 AM   #654
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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/p...ion/index.html

Critics have also questioned whether the WHO is independent enough, given China's rising wealth and power. They point to the WHO's effusive praise of China's response to the coronavirus pandemic.



Some critics have questioned the independence of the WHO with regard to the harm of EMFs. They point to the fact that many of EMF bureaucrats in the WHO are industry players in ICNIRP.
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Old 30th May 2020, 01:54 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/p...ion/index.html

Critics have also questioned whether the WHO is independent enough, given China's rising wealth and power. They point to the WHO's effusive praise of China's response to the coronavirus pandemic.



Some critics have questioned the independence of the WHO with regard to the harm of EMFs. They point to the fact that many of EMF bureaucrats in the WHO are industry players in ICNIRP.
Which of course changes nothing about the fact that every single one of your ailments is age related.
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Old 30th May 2020, 02:17 AM   #656
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I still have to review some of the posts and reply to key point. And to Rogers post. Here is more on the pulsation. And the selectivity of the channels.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...430?via%3Dihub

Pulsed electromagnetic field enhances brain-derived neurotrophic factor expression through L-type voltage-gated calcium channel- and Erk-dependent signaling pathways in neonatal rat dorsal root ganglion neurons


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...589?via%3Dihub

Effects of electromagnetic field exposure on conduction and concentration of voltage gated calcium channels: A Brownian dynamics study

...An important and extremely selective ion channel with high ratio selection is the calcium channel(s). These channels pass 10^6 ions per second and can select between ions of identical radii with a charge selection mechanism.

...Dysfunction of any type of calcium channels will lead to the related diseases such as absence seizures, cerebellar ataxia, familial hemiplegic migraine, Timothy syndrome, autism and many more (Catterall, 2011). The success of our model implies that the atomic structure has a close relation to the parameters of our model, the ionic conductance and occupancy of the selectivity filter is in agreement with the recent findings of calcium channels
(Eisenberg, 2010).
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Old 30th May 2020, 02:27 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Which of course changes nothing about the fact that every single one of your ailments is age related.

And you have no problem with me "aging" 10 to 20 years in the five months the cell tower was first turned on.

Strangely, you echo the suggestion posed as the only answer that the Telco manager had to my extensive affidavit with supporting studies. My application (which he legal profession found excuses not to be involved in) got the tower turned off. To quote the judge "You are harming these people. Your industry should be more empathetic to your customers." I summarize his reasons.

And you do not think it strange that all of these symptoms disappear if I can get away from EMF for a while. Hmmm. Bias perhaps?
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Old 30th May 2020, 02:47 AM   #658
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3315630/

...Currently, ion channels (including ligand-gated ion channels) represent the second largest target for existing drugs after G protein-coupled receptors (Overington et al., 2006).


If one does some searching on response times then one finds times in the order of about 3 milliseconds and upwards. It is these times that are in play with the MW pulsation, I would think.
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Old 30th May 2020, 02:56 AM   #659
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
And you have no problem with me "aging" 10 to 20 years in the five months the cell tower was first turned on.

Strangely, you echo the suggestion posed as the only answer that the Telco manager had to my extensive affidavit with supporting studies. My application (which he legal profession found excuses not to be involved in) got the tower turned off. To quote the judge "You are harming these people. Your industry should be more empathetic to your customers." I summarize his reasons.

And you do not think it strange that all of these symptoms disappear if I can get away from EMF for a while. Hmmm. Bias perhaps?
Anecdotes? Seriously? How do you explain the fact that the hospitals are not full of people suffering from EMF "damage"?
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Old 30th May 2020, 03:36 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
And you have no problem with me "aging" 10 to 20 years in the five months the cell tower was first turned on.

Strangely, you echo the suggestion posed as the only answer that the Telco manager had to my extensive affidavit with supporting studies. My application (which he legal profession found excuses not to be involved in) got the tower turned off. To quote the judge "You are harming these people. Your industry should be more empathetic to your customers." I summarize his reasons.

Has this been reported anywhere, even as a news report? Given that a council’s failure to get quite as wide-ranging an injunction as it wanted has been widely touted as some sort of legal victory over 5G, I would have thought that a judge ordering a mast to be turned off because it’s harmful would be plastered all over the web.
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Old 30th May 2020, 03:40 AM   #661
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Strangely, you echo the suggestion posed as the only answer that the Telco manager had to my extensive affidavit with supporting studies. My application (which he legal profession found excuses not to be involved in) got the tower turned off. To quote the judge "You are harming these people. Your industry should be more empathetic to your customers." I summarize his reasons.
This is the same court case you keep referring to, the one you are endlessly dodging requests to link to, right?
Unsupported anecdotes really, really, really, really don't count as evidence.
How about a link to the court documents, PS? Then we can all read them.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:40 AM   #662
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I would have thought that, given the controversial and arguable nature of Partskeptic's assertions, an actual court decision would be extremely valuable evidence. Was it reported in a newspaper? Was it recorded or reported on the web? Was no document generated that might be scanned?

I think if I were in PS's situation I'd be flooding the thread with links and copies. It's not as if he's shy about post length or the providing of links.

Of course, as we know, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" in many cases, but I think it reasonable to suggest, after a certain point, that the inability to provide evidence is symptomatic of there not being any.

By the way, PS, whatever bias or unfairness you can claim to have experienced here, you can't accurately say you've experienced banning. That happens only once, I hear.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:54 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
And you have no problem with me "aging" 10 to 20 years in the five months the cell tower was first turned on.
..Because you've provide zero evidence that this occurred.
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Old 30th May 2020, 07:22 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
And you have no problem with me "aging" 10 to 20 years in the five months the cell tower was first turned on.
Evidence?

Quote:
Strangely, you echo the suggestion posed as the only answer that the Telco manager had to my extensive affidavit with supporting studies. My application (which he legal profession found excuses not to be involved in) got the tower turned off. To quote the judge "You are harming these people. Your industry should be more empathetic to your customers." I summarize his reasons.
Evidence?

Quote:
And you do not think it strange that all of these symptoms disappear if I can get away from EMF for a while
There's nothing strange about psychosomatic symptoms disappearing when the sufferer gets away from the perceived source of them, or of symptoms of high blood pressure disappearing when the sufferer gets away from the perceived source of the anxiety that is causing it to spike.

OTOH if the symptoms only occur when the EMF is present, regardless of whether you know whether it's present or not, that would rule out both those explanations, in which case the EMF explanation would have to be seriously considered. If only there was an easy way to find out if that was the case ...

Quote:
Hmmm. Bias perhaps?
No, absence of supporting objective evidence.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:04 AM   #665
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What I have been saying about real-life Mobile Telephony (MT) Emfs:


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...83574218300991

...The number of studies showing adverse effects on living organisms induced by different types of man-made Electromagnetic Fields (EMFs) has increased tremendously. Hundreds of peer reviewed published studies show a variety of effects, the most important being DNA damage which is linked to cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, reproductive declines etc. Those studies that are far more effective in showing effects employ real-life Mobile Telephony (MT) exposures emitted by commercially available mobile phones. The present review - of results published by my group from 2006 until 2016 - compares DNA fragmentation induced by six different EMFs on the same biological system - the oogenesis of Drosophila melanogaster - under identical conditions and procedures.

...It shows that real MT EMFs are far more damaging than 50 Hz alternating magnetic field (MF) - similar or much stronger to those of power lines - or a pulsed electric field (PEF) found before to increase fertility. The MT EMFs were significantly more bioactive even for much shorter exposure durations than the other EMFs. Moreover, they were more damaging than previously tested cytotoxic agents like certain chemicals, starvation, dehydration. Individual parameters of the real MT EMFs like intensity, frequency, exposure duration, polarization, pulsing, modulation, are discussed in terms of their role in bioactivity. The crucial parameter for the intense bioactivity seems to be the extreme variability of the polarized MT signals, mainly due to the large unpredictable intensity changes.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:11 AM   #666
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More reference since posters are requesting them.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14914

,,,All types of man-made EMFs/EMR - in contrast to natural EMFs/EMR - are polarized. Polarized EMFs/EMR can have increased biological activity, due to: 1) Ability to produce constructive interference effects and amplify their intensities at many locations. 2) Ability to force all charged/polar molecules and especially free ions within and around all living cells to oscillate on parallel planes and in phase with the applied polarized field. Such ionic forced-oscillations exert additive electrostatic forces on the sensors of cell membrane electro-sensitive ion channels, resulting in their irregular gating and consequent disruption of the cell’s electrochemical balance.

...All critical biomolecules are either electrically charged or polar.

...Although all molecules oscillate randomly with much higher velocities due to thermal motion, this has no biological effect other than increase in tissue temperature. But a coherent polarized oscillation of even millions of times smaller energy than average thermal molecular energy can initiate biological effects. A forced-oscillation of mobile ions, induced by an external polarized EMF, can result in irregular gating of electrosensitive ion channels on the cell membranes.

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Old 30th May 2020, 11:23 AM   #667
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Here is a lecture on real emfs. Pulsation and variability are dealt with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUwiyNhR4k

Comparing DNA Damage induced by different types of man-made EMFs. Mechanism of Action

Lecture of EMF-biophysicist Dr. Dimitris J. Panagopoulos on the Health Effects of man-made Electromagnetic Fields (EMFs). He explains why Modern Telecommunication EMFs (mobile phones, wi-fi, cordless phones, etc.) are more damaging than other types of man-made EMFs. London, Sept. 2019.

At 15:05 the slide indicates that

"60 % of all peer reviewed published studies show effects"

AND that

In the studies with REAL exposures, 98 % find effects.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:35 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
More reference since posters are requesting them.
What we're requesting is references that support your claims. You know, the claims that 'electrosmog' is causing the symptoms you and others are experiencing, and that it is weakening everyone's immune system and hence worsening the pandemic and so on.

No one disputes that holding a mobile phone against your head for hours a day is almost certainly harmful, the evidence on that has been pretty convincing for some time.

No one disputes there are papers which suggest there might be tissue damage from high levels of EMF, but they do not support your claims - at most they make them slightly plausible.

It's the leaps you're making from such studies to the conclusion that 'electrosmog' is causing your symptoms, or that it's making the pandemic worse, that require evidence. We're asking for the papers which describe the blind tests which demonstrate that the symptoms you and others experience really are due to 'electrosmog'. We're asking for the papers which describe the evidence that 'electrosmog' weakens human immune systems. And so on.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:56 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
This is the same court case you keep referring to, the one you are endlessly dodging requests to link to, right?
Unsupported anecdotes really, really, really, really don't count as evidence.
How about a link to the court documents, PS? Then we can all read them.
It certainly seems to me that, since he's effectively citing the judge's decision to shut down the tower as evidence that it was "harming these people," he should show that the decision actually says that in the way he wants us to take it. Now, I have found an article on a site that I think is in reference to PS's case- it does show that a tower was shut down by a judge in response to a request from some South African residents who were "represented" by one of their own, who sounds, from the description at the site, very much like PS. According to the article, quoting our hero-
Quote:
I brought an urgent application. We were self-represented and I wrote the application and the argument. It was quite drawn out in verbal argument with [redacted] tower and [redacted] opposing. The City did not oppose or appear.

The High Court in Johannesburg was very unhappy with the Council and with the [redacted] for not notifying residents and for not checking on the unsightly impact and the Judge ordered the tower turned off because of the health impact on me.
Note the highlighted part- it sounds to me like what the judge cited as the reason for having the tower turned off was that the residents weren't properly notified that the "unsightly" thing was going to be built before it was; our hero heard "because of the health impact on me," but that's not necessarily what was actually said. (And the redacts are mine, for reasons cited below)

I'll also note that there is a link at that article where the "Court papers filed, and court order" can be downloaded as a .zip file. I haven't downloaded it because I don't presently have an unzip program on my laptop.

Having said all this, I won't link to the article because our hero is named there- there's even a short video clip of him with his meter demonstrating the "dangerous radiation levels at his house." ISF, I think, has pretty strict rules against doxxing, which I respect; I'm not sure this would breach those rules, since he has himself said something to the effect of needing to lose his Internet incognito at some point anyway, and I didn't find the site (and his identity) by means of anything more than what he's said here; but I'd rather not chance it. TBH, I kind of feel like PS should either do it himself, or stop citing the judge's decision as support for his position- you can't honorably hide behind an incognito that also dishonorably serves to hide a misrepresentation. (And, tbf, it may not be a misrepresentation- not having read the court stuff, I can't know that for sure. But continuing to dodge requests to at least quote the exact language, if not fully cite the source, certainly gives rise to understandable suspicion that it may be so)

And, of course, this may not even be PS. He should be able to tell from what I've said here whether or not I'm mistaken- if I am, my apologies. If I'm not- well, the ball's in your court, I guess.
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Old 30th May 2020, 08:06 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Aches, anxiety, rapid heart beat. These are similar symptoms of exposure to EMFs. See my last post. People with EHS usually have underlying sensitivities such as chemical intolerance. I have probably been floxed and developed systemic histoplasmosis as a result.

Here is the attitude of medical science and skeptics to being floxed. The science caught up with what people were discovering anecdotally.

1. Did EMFs make these people susceptible to getting seriously ill when having Covid, and is EMFs causing some (note some) of the problems? Are EMFs a catalyst or trigger for illness?

2. Patient groups led the charge. Are EHS groups leading the EMF charge?

God forced me to learn (the hard way) about these things. Bat fungus, fluoroquinolone, and EMFs. When seen in the light of a pandemic warning from God my suspicions are that there are connections.
Time to take off the tinfoil hat and put on your skeptics hat. The default answer to all these questions is No, EMF did not cause these problems.

It's possible that you have been 'floxed', and/or have undiagnosed health issues, or a large part of it may be psychosomatic. I too have suffered from conditions that doctors refused to believe, but I avoid drugs wherever possible so I know I haven't been 'floxed'. One reason I avoid drugs is that I think the body should be given an opportunity to heal itself, another is that I am skeptical of their effect and worry that they may just mask the symptoms.

If I take a drug to alleviate some symptom and it goes way, how do I know it wouldn't have gone away by itself - or even worse, have cleared up quicker? I once took an analgesic on the doctor's advice and it made the symptoms worse, not better. So I take a skeptical stance and only use drugs when they are absolutely necessary and the effect is unambiguous.

One thing the lockdown has shown me is that I was probably wrong about most of the times I thought a virus was responsible for my sinus and nasal problems. It also showed me that symptoms such as aches, night sweats and rapid heartbeats can be largely psychosomatic - that is to say, minor effects that are magnified by fear. I now remember that I often had such things before but thought nothing of them, and only the fear of catching Covid-19 turned them into anxiety attacks.

As I get older the aches and pains and other signs of degeneration are getting more common. This is something I just have to accept. After a week the pain in my right arm and wrist has finally subsided. I am now being careful not to exacerbate it, knowing that next time it will probably be worse. At least I now know to avoid situations that cause RSI, because healing takes too long and affects my outlook on life.

But one thing I will not be considering is that any aches and pains etc. could be caused by (or even 'a catalyst for') anything other than age degeneration and the endless ravages of disease. Why posit improbable causes such as minuscule amounts of rf when the actual causes are obvious and have well-known medical explanations? The skeptic in me says that it doesn't make sense to ignore the obvious in favor of an irrational fear.

I you truly cared about whether EMI is actually a problem or not you don't have to try becoming an expert in fields you will probably never fully understand, you just have to address your confirmation bias with some simple double-blind tests. But for that to work you have to want it to. If you 'want to believe' it will probably be impossible to train your mind out of it.

IOW, be skeptical. Assume that EMI does nothing, and design an experiment that eliminates any chance of a 'false positive'. If you really can consistently detect low level rf with just your body then it would warrant further study. But I bet you can't. You should too.
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Old 30th May 2020, 08:25 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
...The number of studies showing adverse effects on living organisms induced by different types of man-made Electromagnetic Fields (EMFs) has increased tremendously. Hundreds of peer reviewed published studies show a variety of effects, the most important being DNA damage which is linked to cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, reproductive declines etc. Those studies that are far more effective in showing effects employ real-life Mobile Telephony (MT) exposures emitted by commercially available mobile phones.
The problem is, these studies are considering the effect of a mobile phone stuck to your ear, not a cellphone tower hundreds of meters away. The difference in signal strength is enormous. It's perfectly reasonable to be worried about the effect of several watts of rf energy being emitted alongside your head, which is why these studies are being carried out.

If you are really worried about the effects of EMF on your body, don't stick a mobile phone up to your ear. But don't extrapolate that situation to the totally different case of a cell phone tower.
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Old 30th May 2020, 10:59 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Note the highlighted part- it sounds to me like what the judge cited as the reason for having the tower turned off was that the residents weren't properly notified that the "unsightly" thing was going to be built before it was;
There are generally two arguments used to try and get towers removed in SA: the "unsightly" argument is used because, frankly, they are pretty unsightly. The telcos do try to disguise them and make them more "tree-like", but they generally end up looking like a Frankensteinish version of a Baltic Pine.

The other argument is down to process: was everybody informed, where all the i's dotted and t's crossed. More often than not the lawyers find a loophole and the case is lost.

I have yet to see an argument that focuses on the radiation issue that is evidential. In most cases radiation effects are thrown in as a scare tactic.

In one case (if I remember correctly) there were witnesses put forward that said they were affected negatively by radiation. This line was quickly dropped when the telco informed the court that the tower was not yet operational.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:01 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
It certainly seems to me that, since he's effectively citing the judge's decision to shut down the tower as evidence that it was "harming these people," he should show that the decision actually says that in the way he wants us to take it. Now, I have found an article on a site that I think is in reference to PS's case- it does show that a tower was shut down by a judge in response to a request from some South African residents who were "represented" by one of their own, who sounds, from the description at the site, very much like PS. According to the article, quoting our hero-


Note the highlighted part- it sounds to me like what the judge cited as the reason for having the tower turned off was that the residents weren't properly notified that the "unsightly" thing was going to be built before it was; our hero heard "because of the health impact on me," but that's not necessarily what was actually said. (And the redacts are mine, for reasons cited below)

I'll also note that there is a link at that article where the "Court papers filed, and court order" can be downloaded as a .zip file. I haven't downloaded it because I don't presently have an unzip program on my laptop.

Having said all this, I won't link to the article because our hero is named there- there's even a short video clip of him with his meter demonstrating the "dangerous radiation levels at his house." ISF, I think, has pretty strict rules against doxxing, which I respect; I'm not sure this would breach those rules, since he has himself said something to the effect of needing to lose his Internet incognito at some point anyway, and I didn't find the site (and his identity) by means of anything more than what he's said here; but I'd rather not chance it. TBH, I kind of feel like PS should either do it himself, or stop citing the judge's decision as support for his position- you can't honorably hide behind an incognito that also dishonorably serves to hide a misrepresentation. (And, tbf, it may not be a misrepresentation- not having read the court stuff, I can't know that for sure. But continuing to dodge requests to at least quote the exact language, if not fully cite the source, certainly gives rise to understandable suspicion that it may be so)

And, of course, this may not even be PS. He should be able to tell from what I've said here whether or not I'm mistaken- if I am, my apologies. If I'm not- well, the ball's in your court, I guess.

I was going to lose the incognito fairly soon, so I might as well do it now.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove your name and the address. It's not wise to disclose such details in the public sections of the board


I attacked the tower on a double basis. I had to bring a review of the Council's decision to grant permission because the process was both flawed and fraudulent. But if the tower was not a health threat it could have been left on while the legalities went forward. If the tower was legal I would have no case to even start with and would have to move. The judge criticized the Telcos on both counts. See the transcript.

Here is are all the documents for the application. There were a number of other applications:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...KE?usp=sharing

In my affidavit you can see the argument about health I put forward. Those were early days, so there is a lot more. The Randburg Sun article can be found with the video link.

https://www.iol.co.za/sundayindepend...midst-15403349

The Council's legal department told me that the law allowed the Telcos to plant the mast in our swimming pool without permission (or even informing us) if they wanted to to. That is false but they believe it.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:12 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
There are generally two arguments used to try and get towers removed in SA: the "unsightly" argument is used because, frankly, they are pretty unsightly. The telcos do try to disguise them and make them more "tree-like", but they generally end up looking like a Frankensteinish version of a Baltic Pine.

The other argument is down to process: was everybody informed, where all the i's dotted and t's crossed. More often than not the lawyers find a loophole and the case is lost.

I have yet to see an argument that focuses on the radiation issue that is evidential. In most cases radiation effects are thrown in as a scare tactic.

In one case (if I remember correctly) there were witnesses put forward that said they were affected negatively by radiation. This line was quickly dropped when the telco informed the court that the tower was not yet operational.
That case was in Joburg.

The Telcos falsely claimed the tower was off. When the woman presented solid evidence that it was on, they took the mast down and settled with a non-disclosure agreement.

See... God is on my side, helping to uncover such myths and propaganda. But do your best to find the details of that one. The NDA apparently makes it difficult to find but the Telco's love to reference it without giving the case details.

The Telcos turned on the tower next to us for two days despite a Court order to keep it off. They did it to sicken me and make me miss a filing deadline. I had the evidence. They perjured themselves in Court. Their perjury was blatant and actually proved what I said, but the judge bought their argument. I will be filing a police complaint and am considering an action for damages, except that the whole judicial system here is "captured".

You know, you really want to take the Red Pill and stop enjoying your imaginary juicy steak while imagining that Telcos act in the public's best interest.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:27 PM   #675
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The Telcos falsely claimed the tower was off. When the woman presented solid evidence that it was on, they took the mast down and settled with a non-disclosure agreement.
Solid evidence? Please present it. Otherwise it's just hearsay.

Quote:
The Telcos turned on the tower next to us for two days despite a Court order to keep it off. They did it to sicken me and make me miss a filing deadline. I had the evidence. They perjured themselves in Court. Their perjury was blatant and actually proved what I said, but the judge bought their argument. I will be filing a police complaint and am considering an action for damages, except that the whole judicial system here is "captured".
The conspiracy runs deep...

Quote:
You know, you really want to take the Red Pill and stop enjoying your imaginary juicy steak while imagining that Telcos act in the public's best interest.
...and you should perhaps try doing those tests we have suggested you do.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:30 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The problem is, these studies are considering the effect of a mobile phone stuck to your ear, not a cellphone tower hundreds of meters away. The difference in signal strength is enormous. It's perfectly reasonable to be worried about the effect of several watts of rf energy being emitted alongside your head, which is why these studies are being carried out.

If you are really worried about the effects of EMF on your body, don't stick a mobile phone up to your ear. But don't extrapolate that situation to the totally different case of a cell phone tower.

I am not extrapolating. However, the mechanisms of the effects are the same. If I had 240 cell phones (tower capacity) stuck to my ear, all transmitting at the same time, AND doing it 24 hours a day every day, I would agree that there it a massive difference.

So there are two situations. Cell phone and cell tower. The tower studies are mostly epidemiological. There was a case of 4 students getting a very rare cancer within 6 months of being in a temporary school. The agreement was that there was a common trigger - but no-one considered cell towers. I know a 17 year old who got a similar bone cancer when going through a growth spurt with a recent small lamp-post base station out side their home.

With a cell phone, one has very high power peaks but the daily duration (dosage) is low when compared to the 24/7 of a tower ten meters away radiating downwards and communicating with hundred of cell phones. The tower has a 4500 watt power supply. The cell phone a 2 watt power supply.

For years I preferred a landline, and used to use speaker mode when I had to use a cell phone. I still do, but do a number of things to reduce phone (dosage and intensity) exposure including aeroplane mode frequently.

Don't put your cell phone in your pants pocket if you are a young man who plans to have children. Don't put you phone in your left bra. The first may cause (or be a catalyst for) decreased sperm count and possible prostate cancer and the second may cause breast cancer. A woman we know who lives on her cell phone had her left breast removed.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:42 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
(snip)

It's possible that you have been 'floxed', and/or have undiagnosed health issues, or a large part of it may be psychosomatic. I too have suffered from conditions that doctors refused to believe, but I avoid drugs wherever possible so I know I haven't been 'floxed'. One reason I avoid drugs is that I think the body should be given an opportunity to heal itself, another is that I am skeptical of their effect and worry that they may just mask the symptoms.

If I take a drug to alleviate some symptom and it goes way, how do I know it wouldn't have gone away by itself - or even worse, have cleared up quicker? I once took an analgesic on the doctor's advice and it made the symptoms worse, not better. So I take a skeptical stance and only use drugs when they are absolutely necessary and the effect is unambiguous.

One thing the lockdown has shown me is that I was probably wrong about most of the times I thought a virus was responsible for my sinus and nasal problems. It also showed me that symptoms such as aches, night sweats and rapid heartbeats can be largely psychosomatic - that is to say, minor effects that are magnified by fear. I now remember that I often had such things before but thought nothing of them, and only the fear of catching Covid-19 turned them into anxiety attacks.

As I get older the aches and pains and other signs of degeneration are getting more common. This is something I just have to accept. After a week the pain in my right arm and wrist has finally subsided. I am now being careful not to exacerbate it, knowing that next time it will probably be worse. At least I now know to avoid situations that cause RSI, because healing takes too long and affects my outlook on life.

But one thing I will not be considering is that any aches and pains etc. could be caused by (or even 'a catalyst for') anything other than age degeneration and the endless ravages of disease. Why posit improbable causes such as minuscule amounts of rf when the actual causes are obvious and have well-known medical explanations? The skeptic in me says that it doesn't make sense to ignore the obvious in favor of an irrational fear.

I you truly cared about whether EMI is actually a problem or not you don't have to try becoming an expert in fields you will probably never fully understand, you just have to address your confirmation bias with some simple double-blind tests. But for that to work you have to want it to. If you 'want to believe' it will probably be impossible to train your mind out of it.

IOW, be skeptical. Assume that EMI does nothing, and design an experiment that eliminates any chance of a 'false positive'. If you really can consistently detect low level rf with just your body then it would warrant further study. But I bet you can't. You should too.

I am also against drugs. I have been trying to get off the anti-fungals but each time I do I start getting fungal growths on my skin that look like cancer. And other symptoms I used to get. Anti-fungal cream will stop the growths but not the other internal effects such as inflammation. C-reactive protein is the marker.

The reason a clinical diagnosis of floxxing was that it was thought that (in 2011) that systemic histoplasmosis was not possible in immuno-competent people - which was the case with both my late wife and myself. It is likely the drug broke down some lung tissue to allow the fungus past the barrier.

When the tower was first put next to us, I assumed (wrongly as I later found out with the meter) the radiation was low at our house because the main lobe would pass over us. So I was not expecting to get sick. Because I have good genes, I was also not expecting problems. Psychosomatic problems need to have an expectation. At each stage and with each new symptom I was surprised. Take the whole sequence and you will be hard pressed to think they are not actual problems.

Do you not think that you have a bias towards "no harm" so that you are the one who is not being skeptical enough?
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:54 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
What we're requesting is references that support your claims. You know, the claims that 'electrosmog' is causing the symptoms you and others are experiencing, and that it is weakening everyone's immune system and hence worsening the pandemic and so on.

No one disputes that holding a mobile phone against your head for hours a day is almost certainly harmful, the evidence on that has been pretty convincing for some time.

No one disputes there are papers which suggest there might be tissue damage from high levels of EMF, but they do not support your claims - at most they make them slightly plausible.

It's the leaps you're making from such studies to the conclusion that 'electrosmog' is causing your symptoms, or that it's making the pandemic worse, that require evidence. We're asking for the papers which describe the blind tests which demonstrate that the symptoms you and others experience really are due to 'electrosmog'. We're asking for the papers which describe the evidence that 'electrosmog' weakens human immune systems. And so on.

Okay. Quite reasonable. And you are right. Here is where I have taken the stance that God is guiding my life to give me information that is not yet available. So the proof is yet to come, but I do not think I am wrong.

I look at the big picture and say my "extrapolations" and "hypotheses" are not so far fetched. I was always able to do so. Could I be wrong? Yes. But people are so convinced that mobile telephony is harmless that they blind themselves to the possibility that I am right.

I hear a drum-beat of "psychosomatic" and "tin-foil hat crazy" and "deluded". Posters here have an invested emotional view-point to argue against the possible existence of God that they project that onto my logical arguments.

I think it is logical when studies show that immune systems are damaged and that blood brain barriers are damaged that one could say that high exposure of long duration could be a catalyst to the damage Covid is causing.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:56 PM   #679
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
(snip)

The other argument is down to process: was everybody informed, where all the i's dotted and t's crossed. More often than not the lawyers find a loophole and the case is lost.

(snip)

In my case, they found a judge who would ignore the facts and the law. The judge knew that any appeals would be dismissed without a hearing.
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Old 31st May 2020, 12:20 AM   #680
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Okay. Quite reasonable. And you are right. Here is where I have taken the stance that God is guiding my life to give me information that is not yet available.
But it is available. Blind tests have been done, with negative results. If you don't trust those results you, and anyone who agrees with you, could do your own tests. What are you waiting for?

Quote:
So the proof is yet to come, but I do not think I am wrong.
There is an easy way to demonstrate you are right. I ask again: What are you waiting for?

Quote:
I look at the big picture and say my "extrapolations" and "hypotheses" are not so far fetched. I was always able to do so. Could I be wrong? Yes. But people are so convinced that mobile telephony is harmless that they blind themselves to the possibility that I am right.
How is asking for evidence that you are right blinding ourselves to that possibility?

Quote:
I hear a drum-beat of "psychosomatic" and "tin-foil hat crazy" and "deluded". Posters here have an invested emotional view-point to argue against the possible existence of God that they project that onto my logical arguments.
Your claims about 'electrosmog' are entirely separate to your claims about god. I for one never confuse or conflate them. Evidence that you are right about electrosmog, should it ever be forthcoming, would not affect my opinion of your religious claims one iota in either direction.

Quote:
I think it is logical when studies show that immune systems are damaged and that blood brain barriers are damaged that one could say that high exposure of long duration could be a catalyst to the damage Covid is causing.
I think the studies that have been done do not remotely justify such wild speculation. Take into consideration the damage that is done by it, and such baseless speculation is not only unjustified but dangerously irresponsible.
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