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Old 16th May 2020, 07:54 PM   #41
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A good flint knapper (worker) can make a serviceable and attractive point in under 10 minutes.

A group I was in used to run a competition based on this premise.
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Old 16th May 2020, 07:55 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ShadowSot View Post
Jason Colavitos blog is also a good skeptical reference.
There's also the Archy fantasies podcast, and Ken Feder and Jeb card have a few books out on it.
Jason is my "go-to-guy" for all things archaeology. I loved the comprehensive demolition job he did in of Scott Wolter's BS crackpot archaeology series "America Unearthed"

He's really worth a read if you like seeing crackpot history systematically debunked

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog
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Old 17th May 2020, 03:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Oh yeah I deal with pseudo-archaeology all the time of various forum. My favorite is 'ancient people could work rocks especially hard rocks' - impossible must have been done by aliens or Atlanteans.

A modern person doing the 'impossible' with stone tools:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2bHE7mTi4
3.39 in length

Yeah but she used an anvil to break a stone and that set was commercially made!

Always like seeing “if you have a long time you can do amazing things”. After doing a few of these I’d bet she’d soon have her speed up.
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Old 17th May 2020, 02:11 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Eric Von D is a gem. Once on AE he gushed over what he thought was an obvious Alien Landing strip on a "Cut off mountain top" it was, in fact, a plateau.

To Eric Von D "Done by Aliens" is the first thought to pop into his head about just about everything. He heavily relies on the ignorance of his readers - especially ignorance of matters technical.

When I visited Giza a number of year ago, I looked at the construction of the pyramids with a critical eye for detail. To Von D they were obviously made using machinery. To me they were obviously not!

If machinery was used the blocks of stone would have been uniform in size and this they certainly were not. Each was fitted to the adjacent stones and were different sizes, so the horizontal seams were crooked.
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Old 17th May 2020, 04:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
To Eric Von D "Done by Aliens" is the first thought to pop into his head about just about everything. He heavily relies on the ignorance of his readers.
Which is why CotG fascinated me when I was 13 years old, but by the time I was 16, I was able to see through all the massive holes in his narrative.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:03 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Okay, so explain the pyramids. Explain Stonehenge.

It's been proven that humans couldn't do it.

Explain this: humans aren't smart, humans see spaceships, humans are now smart, microwave ovens, Google.

Seriously. Explain that.

Aliums.

I'm a Belieber.
Not sure what to make of this. I assume there's a touch of sarcasm, but it's uncertain, so in case I'm wrong, my question is "It's been proven" by whom?
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:32 PM   #47
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I watched Ancient Aliens today and the Easter Island statues were being undone.

The AA experts knew why and knew men could not move them without amazing technology.

Thor Heyerdahl knew in the early 50's that islanders could make them and walked them to the platforms, only with men and ropes.
Because he did it with them. He took pictures of them doing it and wrote a book.
What Thor H didn't know was exactly why they were made save for local legends. He didn't speculate it was for anything alien.

I read that book at the same part of my life Chariots of the Gods was new.
I knew in five pages which was plausible and which was lazy brainfarting.
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Old 18th May 2020, 05:59 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Thorkil2 View Post
Not sure what to make of this. I assume there's a touch of sarcasm, but it's uncertain, so in case I'm wrong, my question is "It's been proven" by whom?
The science men proved it. Simple men couldn't carry those blocks, although there's an interesting theory I read in Weekly World News once that suggested some kind of race of superhuman could've done it. I prefer the alien theory, because... Spaceships.
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Old 19th May 2020, 02:50 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Thorkil2 View Post
Not sure what to make of this. I assume there's a touch of sarcasm, but it's uncertain, so in case I'm wrong, my question is "It's been proven" by whom?
Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
The science men proved it. Simple men couldn't carry those blocks, although there's an interesting theory I read in Weekly World News once that suggested some kind of race of superhuman could've done it. I prefer the alien theory, because... Spaceships.

Either heavily disguised sarcasm or thinly veiled stupidity methinks.
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Old 19th May 2020, 04:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Either heavily disguised sarcasm or thinly veiled stupidity methinks.

He's a scouser, so it could be either, but I'm going with obvious sarcasm
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Old 19th May 2020, 09:12 PM   #51
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Sarcasm all the way.
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Old 20th May 2020, 05:20 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
The science men proved it. Simple men couldn't carry those blocks, although there's an interesting theory I read in Weekly World News once that suggested some kind of race of superhuman could've done it. I prefer the alien theory, because... Spaceships.
Very nicely done.

"I read in Weekly World News"

Genius, sir

Nominated.


My sarcasm detectors are working fine, and that's beautiful, also the last line.
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:59 AM   #53
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I struggle to think how it could've been more obvious, tbh. Next time, I'll add a Ba-Dum-Tss
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:02 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He's a scouser, so it could be either, but I'm going with obvious sarcasm
And some people say you Kiwis are soft! A pint of Fosters for you! (Yes, that's also a joke!)
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:03 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Very nicely done.

"I read in Weekly World News"

Genius, sir

Nominated.


My sarcasm detectors are working fine, and that's beautiful, also the last line.
My auntie is the real genius, she genuinely read Weekly World News, I merely found it under the couch and had a morbid giggle!
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Old 20th May 2020, 04:55 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
My auntie is the real genius, she genuinely read Weekly World News, I merely found it under the couch and had a morbid giggle!

We have The Woman's Weekly here in Australia which may have the same publisher. We don't drink Fosters over here any more by the way. You Poms are the only ones who drink it now.
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Old 20th May 2020, 08:01 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
We have The Woman's Weekly here in Australia which may have the same publisher. We don't drink Fosters over here any more by the way. You Poms are the only ones who drink it now.
The ENTIRE WORLD knows that Fosters is a joke!
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:33 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
We have The Woman's Weekly here in Australia which may have the same publisher. We don't drink Fosters over here any more by the way. You Poms are the only ones who drink it now.
The last time I had a Fosters was that one year way back in the 90s where they experimented with banning sales of alcohol in glass for New Year's Eve. The only reason I drank it then was that I got to the bottle shop a bit late and literally everything else was already gone.

There's a reason we ship it all overseas.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 04:26 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
We have The Woman's Weekly here in Australia which may have the same publisher. We don't drink Fosters over here any more by the way. You Poms are the only ones who drink it now.
Can't stand Fosters, myself! It's almost as bad as Stella. The Fosters comment was a joke for the bloke from New Zealand, though, because most Kiwi's, from what I've heard, don't like to be confused with Aussies, and vice versa. I don't see what the fuss is about, you're all from South Africa, you should learn to get along.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 04:29 AM   #60
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I've spoken about it in the drinking threads, but all of those lagers are cheap and taste awful. You don't tend to see many Stella ads now, but about ten years ago, their adverts were huge, ridiculous productions. I always said that if they put even a fraction of that money into making beer, it might actually be nice. Like Britain's Carling, it's just awful stuff, foamy urine!
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Old 22nd May 2020, 09:28 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I've spoken about it in the drinking threads, but all of those lagers are cheap and taste awful. You don't tend to see many Stella ads now, but about ten years ago, their adverts were huge, ridiculous productions. I always said that if they put even a fraction of that money into making beer, it might actually be nice. Like Britain's Carling, it's just awful stuff, foamy urine!
And the sad thing is that when Carling was a local Canadian brewery Black Label was at least drinkable. I guess that, like Fosters, internationalization has not been kind to it.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 06:00 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Can't stand Fosters, myself! It's almost as bad as Stella. The Fosters comment was a joke for the bloke from New Zealand, though, because most Kiwi's, from what I've heard, don't like to be confused with Aussies, and vice versa. I don't see what the fuss is about, you're all from South Africa, you should learn to get along.
Years ago Fosters UK attempted to market a “cream ale/lager”. I tried Googling for it, but it looks like Fosters we’re so disappointed in its disgusting taste that they have removified its existence from the interwebs.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:29 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He's a scouser, so it could be either, but I'm going with obvious sarcasm
Probably an Everton fan.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:02 PM   #64
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I watched program "Ancient aliens" on Australian National TV yesterday. The fact they aired it shocked me immensely. A couple of some highschool dropouts were, with straight faces, presenting ideas like some major volcanic eruptions were deliberately caused by aliens. The reason was simple and straightforward: There are alien bases in the volcanoes and when the aliens were becoming uncomfortable with human cities coming too close, they just blasted the volcano and destroyed them. This is virtually word by word what these people were saying - besides of other similar pearls...
Is there any intelligent life on this planet?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:36 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
Probably an Everton fan.
Thinly veiled stupidity it is then!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:06 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
I watched program "Ancient aliens" on Australian National TV yesterday. The fact they aired it shocked me immensely. A couple of some highschool dropouts were, with straight faces, presenting ideas like some major volcanic eruptions were deliberately caused by aliens. The reason was simple and straightforward: There are alien bases in the volcanoes and when the aliens were becoming uncomfortable with human cities coming too close, they just blasted the volcano and destroyed them. This is virtually word by word what these people were saying - besides of other similar pearls...
Is there any intelligent life on this planet?
I occasionally watch Ancient Aliens for its value as comedy gold. It is most entertaining watching idiots like Giorgio Tsoukalos repeatedly reaching clear, firm and definite conclusions from the flimsiest and most diaphonous of what laughingly passes as "evidence".

It can also be a useful educational tool - if you want to see practical examples of applications of logical fallacies such as "Affirming the Consequent", "Affirming a Disjunct", "Alleged Certainty", "False Dichotomy", "Anonymous Authority" and many, many more, its hard to go past an episode of Ancient Aliens
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:07 PM   #67
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Wow, there's some thread drift!
I just watched the video of the woman making the duck vase. Awesome. Nice to see something good come out of Russia.
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Old 24th May 2020, 06:06 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I struggle to think how it could've been more obvious, tbh. Next time, I'll add a Ba-Dum-Tss
Surely seems so now, though a backup band with a good drummer is always useful. Alas, I am apparently deprived intellectually in having no knowledge of the Weekly World News, but (again the assumptions) suppose from the context of these replies that it is equivalent to our own National Enquirer. Sorry for the uncertainty, but I encounter so many people who are true and absolute beliebers (though that should have given it away. Mea Culpa.).
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Old 24th May 2020, 06:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
I watched program "Ancient aliens" on Australian National TV yesterday. The fact they aired it shocked me immensely. A couple of some highschool dropouts were, with straight faces, presenting ideas like some major volcanic eruptions were deliberately caused by aliens. The reason was simple and straightforward: There are alien bases in the volcanoes and when the aliens were becoming uncomfortable with human cities coming too close, they just blasted the volcano and destroyed them. This is virtually word by word what these people were saying - besides of other similar pearls...
Is there any intelligent life on this planet?
At times I believe there is, undeterrably incognito, holding their true identities secret with the most effective and indiscernible disguise imaginable, as contributing consultants to "Ancient Aliens" (with speaking roles, no less).
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Old 24th May 2020, 06:46 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Eric Von D is a gem. Once on AE he gushed over what he thought was an obvious Alien Landing strip on a "Cut off mountain top" it was, in fact, a plateau.
My favorite was when he discovered hexagonal basalt on Easter Island, evidently for the first time in his life, and wrote that there was no possible way it was a natural phenomenon.
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Old 24th May 2020, 07:22 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
And some people say you Kiwis are soft! A pint of Fosters for you! (Yes, that's also a joke!)
Oi!
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Old 24th May 2020, 07:43 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
Is there any intelligent life on this planet?
Yes, plenty.

Just not on that show.
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Old 25th May 2020, 04:37 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
I watched program "Ancient aliens" on Australian National TV yesterday. The fact they aired it shocked me immensely. A couple of some highschool dropouts were, with straight faces, presenting ideas like some major volcanic eruptions were deliberately caused by aliens. The reason was simple and straightforward: There are alien bases in the volcanoes and when the aliens were becoming uncomfortable with human cities coming too close, they just blasted the volcano and destroyed them. This is virtually word by word what these people were saying - besides of other similar pearls...
Is there any intelligent life on this planet?
I believe the traditional reply to your question is, "Yes, but I'm only visiting!"
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Old 26th May 2020, 11:20 AM   #74
MohamedTaqi
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The thing with those who believe in ancient aliens is that they think that their belief is somehow smarter and more advanced than any belief in Gods or angels or saints... While the fact is that it is just as dumb as any other unjustified belief : that and new age nonsense and conspiracies.
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Old 26th May 2020, 10:18 PM   #75
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Ancient Aliens the program is an industry more than a belief. Giorgio is a magazine editor, others are writers and such.

The name under the face, with "author of Amazing Empty Woo" is more than a statement of some authority, it is some title you would want to get if you fall for the crap they say.

The plan goes usually a statement of the theme. Then they dig throgh a pile of history and mystery for any event or artifact that can "prove" the point made. Rinse and repeat a bunch of times with stuff dislocated by time and distances until it kinda sorta looks possible Bigfoot and Vlad Dracul co wrote Hamlet using alien technology.
Or some other odd idea.
It doesn't matter what as long as they looked scholarly presenting a big pile of donkey dung. And maybe inspired you as curious to find his magazine or book and pay for it.

If ratings stay up they get renewed for another season and stay fat paid too.
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Old 28th May 2020, 09:51 AM   #76
Pacal
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Which is why CotG fascinated me when I was 13 years old, but by the time I was 16, I was able to see through all the massive holes in his narrative.
I too was taken in at the age of 12 but by the age of 15 I was over it. By then I had read some basic texts about Archeology and found out that VD was full of it.

It is amazing that people are taken in by VD's crap when it takes only a modicum of research to find out how nonsensical it all is.

That I was taken in so young was hardly surprising I guess but adults buying this crap is a bit mystifying, especially when plenty of accurate info is available. I suppose ignorance explains a lot of it. However it doesn't explain those who willfully ignore evidence or disparage it. The number of people I have met who have claimed, proudly, that their minds are not full of "facts" and up to date information and thus unbiased and open minded is legion. People like me are of course "close minded" and biased. And of course there are those who talk about a dark conspiracy by "them" to conceal the "truth" from us. Whatever.

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Old 29th May 2020, 05:42 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Either heavily disguised sarcasm or thinly veiled stupidity methinks.
How could you possibly think that sarcasm was heavily disguised?
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Old 29th May 2020, 10:25 PM   #78
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
The number of people I have met who have claimed, proudly, that their minds are not full of "facts" and up to date information and thus unbiased and open minded is legion. People like me are of course "close minded" and biased. And of course there are those who talk about a dark conspiracy by "them" to conceal the "truth" from us. Whatever.
Many of these are likely to be people who were simply not intelligent enough (or simply too stupid) to understand the elementary levels of science and engineering taught at school, and rather than move on with their lives and try to excel at something else, try to justify their failure by arguing that people who go to study science and engineering at university do so to be "indoctrinated" in those disciplines. They fail to understand the truth; that university study is a journey of profound discovery - you don't go to university to have your mind filled with facts, you do so to discover for yourself how things work, and from this, you learn the facts!

When I studied Aeronautical Engineering, I didn't just read in a textbook that an aerofoil-shaped object moving through a fluid produces an aerodynamic force (i.e. lift) - nor did I just take the lecturer's word for it..... and nor was I expected to. What I was expected to do was to perform experiments, make observations and draw conclusions from the results.

In my experience, I have noted that those who are proud "that their minds are not full of "facts" and up to date information" generally end up being conspiracy theorists such as moon landing deniers and flat earthers. Any members here reading this who are also members at Apollohoax.net will likely know what (and who) I am talking about.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:45 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yeah but she used an anvil to break a stone and that set was commercially made!

Always like seeing “if you have a long time you can do amazing things”. After doing a few of these I’d bet she’d soon have her speed up.
Yes expertise. Most archaeological reconstructions tend to be very awkward as the person(s) involved are doing it for the first time. When you're a fifth generation stone mason and have been doing it every day since you were eight you tend to be very good at it.

An example. If we went back in time to Ancient Egypt - no one there would have been able to play American Football properly - probably couldn't throw a forward pass fifty yards with accuracy. Why? no experience with the game yet many Americans and Canadians can do that as they were taught by experts and practiced it their whole lives. Same thing for being able to make clever stone work. Skill, expertise, and knowledgeable teachers.
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Old 30th May 2020, 10:05 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
What I was expected to do was to perform experiments, make observations and draw conclusions from the results.
And have your conclusions challenged and your results adjudicated for correctness. That's the primary value of formal education. It starts with simple exams and extends through "orals" and "defenses" for advanced degrees. Anyone can read the concepts (or have them recited) and play with the principles in their spare time. Mastery of any field requires an objective or competitive test of proficiency. Aerospace engineering tends to test its practitioners rigorously and punish their deficiency with spectacular fireballs. Fields like medicine and law have similarly evident means of testing proficiency, with similarly high-stakes outcomes.

I like to mention a place where I once worked whose chief engineer did not have an engineering degree. But his "hobby" was building race car engines from scratch and racing them against other cars, and winning more than luck would suggest. The race is the proof.

Conversely I own practically every book made on the subject of bread making. I can recite a number of principles of baking by heart. I've visited some of the finest bakeries in Europe. But I cannot bake a decent loaf of bread to save my life. By no means have I mastered that field. You can see how the groundwork gets laid for me to say that anyone who bakes good bread must be using secret alien technology.

Quote:
In my experience, I have noted that those who are proud "that their minds are not full of "facts" and up to date information" generally end up being conspiracy theorists such as moon landing deniers and flat earthers.
I maintain that those are shortcuts that produce the illusion of erudition. For those with an appetite for science but no skill at it, that pseudoscience is sometimes more appealing. It requires less effort to "master" those theories, and there's no final exam. And as long as nobody sets and exam, they feel smart -- smarter anyway than the "sheeple."

But of course you have to make that mode of thinking seem more attractive, especially if you happen across people who actually know the history or the science. You can't win according to what you know, so you have to pivot to how you know it. And this is the common touchstone of fringe thinking. It doesn't matter whether the genre is history, science, medicine, or whatever. The "strength" is touted as the way you arrived at the ideas, not whether the ideas have objective or evidentiary merit.

Quote:
Any members here reading this who are also members at Apollohoax.net will likely know what (and who) I am talking about.
Funny you should mention the "who" because -- and I'm sure we're thinking of the same people -- the argument always comes down to people. When you debate these sorts of topics with people, it's not about "This idea is better than that idea." It starts like that, but as soon as you start probing the ideas for weaknesses, they fall apart so very quickly. "This historical thingy couldn't have been possible ordinarily, therefore aliens." And we say, "No, if you actually know the history..."

Then the debate shifts to, "But you guys aren't thinking outside the box. You need to have an open mind to these fresh, non-mainstream ideas." You can see the slow pivot. It's not about which idea is more parsimoniously supported by all the facts. It's about the wondrous properties of the proposition. And that's what appeals to many. It's just more fun to believe in a universe where aliens have visited Earth.

Sadly, it too often devolves into, "Because I believe in these fringe ideas, I'm so much better a thinker than you sheeple at this forum." Everyone remembers Jabba and his claims to be a "holistic" thinker, and therefore personally more able to see alternatives that don't occur to anyone else. It's sad because the motive for raising an issue is too often revealed as ego reinforcement, not the contest between ideas and evidence. It's hard to avoid ad hominem arguments when the debate devolves to this point.

In a larger sense, that's what I think is troubling us these days. "I'm so much better than you because..." seems to be driving a lot of unrest along so many dimensions.
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