PartSkeptic’s Thread for Predictions and Other Matters of Interest - Page 10

Pixel42 · 9th May 2020, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Sham industry funded trial designed to fail.

Provided the trials were properly conducted, the funding is irrelevant.

Show me a properly conducted trial that got a different result (funding again irrelevant, funded by believers in EHS like you is fine) and I'll start to pay attention. But you can't, can you? All you've got is anecdotes.

Quote:

Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done.

Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how you could be fooling yourself.

Quote:

I take it you also believe that stage magic is real.

I once saw David Copperfield saw himself in half and put himself back together again. If, like you, I assumed my personal subjective experiences were the ultimate source of reliable information I would believe that stage magic is real.

Stage magicians take advantage of the same cognitive biases by which believers in homeopathy, dowsing and (almost certainly) EHS are allowing themselves to be fooled. That's why it's necessary to be aware of those biases, and to give more credence to properly conducted and blinded trials (regardless of who funded them) than to one's own subjective experiences.

Mojo · 9th May 2020, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real.

Did you even read the link?

Cosmic Yak · 9th May 2020, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real.

OK, PartSkeptic, why don't you show us how it's done?
Here is a link to a meta-study, from that Wiki article.
Please dig deep, with a skeptical mind, and demonstrate how this study is a sham, was funded by industry, was designed to fail, and is the equivalent of stage magic.
I'm sure I am not alone in wanting to see this demonstration of your analytical skills.

p0lka · 9th May 2020, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

... My wife now tells me when she turns on her WiFi modem so I can go to the garage and work there and use shielding. I get a headache within 15 minutes if in the house with no shielding.

.....

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real.

You are in a position to test this for yourself.

Get your wife to test you by turning the wifi on/pretend to turn the wifi on several times a day, you should know which is pretend and which is real within 15 minutes.

Make sure you count the misses as well as hits though.

PartSkeptic · 9th May 2020, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by p0lka

.....

You are in a position to test this for yourself.

Get your wife to test you by turning the wifi on/pretend to turn the wifi on several times a day, you should know which is pretend and which is real within 15 minutes.

Make sure you count the misses as well as hits though.

Good suggestion. At 10 am and 3 pm, I will ask her to put the modem under a shoe box in the room and chose to turn on or pretend to turn on. Give it 30 minutes and then I make a choice of on or off. Easier than the tower.

I wonder how many days I can do this. It hammers me. I now have a good routine of meals and tablets and seem okay as far as flu. The problem is in the next few days I must go to the old house and to the factory. But I am willing to try it. It is worse when she is speaking on her phone so I may have to figure out how to do that. Maybe the the modem and I should be in the garage, and when it is on she chats to someone. I will start tomorrow with one off and one on, and record how I feel. She can measure the radiation in the house.

Thanks.

Pixel42 · 9th May 2020, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by p0lka

You are in a position to test this for yourself.

Get your wife to test you by turning the wifi on/pretend to turn the wifi on several times a day, you should know which is pretend and which is real within 15 minutes.

Make sure you count the misses as well as hits though.

That's a much simpler test protocol than the one he proposed using foil lined boxes etc to test the effect of cell tower emf. All that's required is for him and his wife to sit in different rooms for a couple of hours each day and keep a written record.

Hypothesis: PartSkeptic will develop a headache within 15 minutes of the wifi being switched on.

Start with the wifi off. After 30 minutes she tosses a coin and switches it on if it's heads, leaves it off if it's tails. Then every 30 minutes she tosses the coin again and either leaves it as it is or switches it on/off as indicated. He records whether he thinks it's currently on or off five minutes before each coin toss is due. Put both records in envelopes, seal and date before leaving the separate rooms. Repeat a few times to get sufficient results to be statistically significant, then open the envelopes and compare the records.

Such an unwitnessed test won't be sufficient to convince anyone else, but the first person you need to convince of an hypothesis is yourself. At the moment he actually has no more reason to be convinced than we do, because the anecdotal evidence he has is wholly inadequate.

ETA: PS posted to say he will try it whilst I was posting. I await the result with interest.

Pixel42 · 9th May 2020, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Good suggestion. At 10 am and 3 pm, I will ask her to put the modem under a shoe box in the room and chose to turn on or pretend to turn on. Give it 30 minutes and then I make a choice of on or off. Easier than the tower.

You need to be in a separate room from your wife when she tosses the coin (rather than just deciding for herself), and record whether you think the wifi is on or off before meeting back up with her. I hope you don't need me to explain why.

PartSkeptic · 9th May 2020, 06:35 AM

If God exists he will guide people to change society. Cartoons can often present a scenario in pictures with satiric accuracy. Here is one - and a South African to boot. Must be something in the water.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/cart...navirus-novel/

Poyton Shute’s “What-If? Scenario”

For Millennia Terran societies have harbored wild and crazy ideas about the origins and purpose of the universe, and who’s in charge of it. It’s a “What If” game that has been going on since the beginning of forever. Let’s play.
What if our galaxy, the Milky Way, is governed by a Quadrumvirate of the Interstellar Security Council?

Omnideus governs the Earth and hundreds of planets with advanced intelligent life.
Dinos rules the thousands of planets dominated by Mesozoic-type vertebrates.
Etymos oversees the gazillions of arthropods across the Galaxy.
Anomalocaris looks after the billions of planets where microbial, unicellular and prevertebrates life forms exist.

I.S.C. emergency meeting, circa 1 year ago.

Anomalocaris says “This planet is sick. It’s temperature is way above normal/ It’s spewing toxic poisons into the atmosphere”. And he points at Earth.
Dinos says “One of yours, is it not, Omnideus?”
“Yes” replies Omnideus.
“It’s a galactic health risk,” says Dinos.
“I am fully aware of it, Dinos. And I am sure I don’t have to remind you that is was in your custody when we last smote it!” counters Omnideus.
“With the ateroid, I do recall – as it was yesterday!” grunts Dinos.
“A tragic error on our part,” sighs Omnideus.
“You are not in favour of extinction?” queries Anomalocaris.
“No. We need these Terrans. But they need to grow up. Fast. To repair their ecology, confront their destiny, turn off their machines, go home, reconnect with nature. Allow their planet some time to clear its lungs,” grimaces Omnideus. “But how do we get them to do that?”

PartSkeptic · 9th May 2020, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

You need to be in a separate room from your wife when she tosses the coin (rather than just deciding for herself), and record whether you think the wifi is on or off before meeting back up with her. I hope you don't need me to explain why.

I know the drill. But thanks. I will video myself now and then, and take written notes.

RedStapler · 9th May 2020, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

If God exists he will guide people to change society. Cartoons can often present a scenario in pictures with satiric accuracy. Here is one - and a South African to boot. Must be something in the water.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/cart...navirus-novel/

Poyton Shute’s “What-If? Scenario”

For Millennia Terran societies have harbored wild and crazy ideas about the origins and purpose of the universe, and who’s in charge of it. It’s a “What If” game that has been going on since the beginning of forever. Let’s play.
What if our galaxy, the Milky Way, is governed by a Quadrumvirate of the Interstellar Security Council?

Omnideus governs the Earth and hundreds of planets with advanced intelligent life.
Dinos rules the thousands of planets dominated by Mesozoic-type vertebrates.
Etymos oversees the gazillions of arthropods across the Galaxy.
Anomalocaris looks after the billions of planets where microbial, unicellular and prevertebrates life forms exist.

I.S.C. emergency meeting, circa 1 year ago.

Anomalocaris says “This planet is sick. It’s temperature is way above normal/ It’s spewing toxic poisons into the atmosphere”. And he points at Earth.
Dinos says “One of yours, is it not, Omnideus?”
“Yes” replies Omnideus.
“It’s a galactic health risk,” says Dinos.
“I am fully aware of it, Dinos. And I am sure I don’t have to remind you that is was in your custody when we last smote it!” counters Omnideus.
“With the ateroid, I do recall – as it was yesterday!” grunts Dinos.
“A tragic error on our part,” sighs Omnideus.
“You are not in favour of extinction?” queries Anomalocaris.
“No. We need these Terrans. But they need to grow up. Fast. To repair their ecology, confront their destiny, turn off their machines, go home, reconnect with nature. Allow their planet some time to clear its lungs,” grimaces Omnideus. “But how do we get them to do that?”

That's.......something.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

“It’s a galactic health risk,” says Dinos.

How so? Dinos seems to be pretty uninformed for the position he is in. Why does he not know that we are barely able to leave this planet except for the ISS? How could we possibly bring this (btw completely undefined) health risk to other places in the galaxy? Looks like our next neighbors are nowhere to be found

)

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

We need these Terrans.

For what?

Pixel42 · 9th May 2020, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

For Millennia Terran societies have harbored wild and crazy ideas about the origins and purpose of the universe, and who’s in charge of it.

Here's a wild and crazy idea for you: the universe had no [supernatural] origin, has no purpose, and there is no one in charge of it.

BStrong · 9th May 2020, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Good suggestion. At 10 am and 3 pm, I will ask her to put the modem under a shoe box in the room and chose to turn on or pretend to turn on. Give it 30 minutes and then I make a choice of on or off. Easier than the tower.

I wonder how many days I can do this. It hammers me. I now have a good routine of meals and tablets and seem okay as far as flu. The problem is in the next few days I must go to the old house and to the factory. But I am willing to try it. It is worse when she is speaking on her phone so I may have to figure out how to do that. Maybe the the modem and I should be in the garage, and when it is on she chats to someone. I will start tomorrow with one off and one on, and record how I feel. She can measure the radiation in the house.

Thanks.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Hans · 9th May 2020, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Here's a wild and crazy idea for you: the universe had no [supernatural] origin, has no purpose, and there is no one in charge of it.

That is a very scary idea to some. Many must have a substitute parent who is watching out for them and has as a plan for their life.

Free will is not for everyone

BStrong · 9th May 2020, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Hans

That is a very scary idea to some. Many must have a substitute parent who is watching out for them and has as a plan for their life.

Free will is not for everyone

Well said.

I just had a rw conversation on this very subject.

There are folks that can't accept "the random" as an actuality - the concept that one could be in the right place at the right time or in any possible variation of that phrase without divine or other intervention or intent is beyond their understanding

EHocking · 9th May 2020, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

I know the drill. But thanks. I will video myself now and then, and take written notes.

Just don’t video yourself with your EMF emitting phone.

PartSkeptic · 9th May 2020, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by EHocking

Just don’t video yourself with your EMF emitting phone.

Great minds think alike. I realized I should not have a phone with me for two reasons. Even on aeroplane mode it still emits slightly. But I could be accused of using it to detect WiFi sources - even though cheating defeats the purpose.

Last night I felt amazing. I mean absolutely blissful. If one draws a line with normal in the middle and pain on the left, I was way on the right. My wife asked me if I had taken drugs. I do not (apart from the one morning Tramadol).

I have become so sensitive to chemicals that I cannot drink alcohol and I cannot have anything with preservatives in it. I cannot tolerate anything with a lot of sugar. Okay by me.

I now have a very healthy diet. Oats with raisins and milk in the morning. Grapefruit a bit later. Some nuts and dates for a late morning snack. An avocado on cracker bread at noon. The main meal is between 2 and 4 pm. Luckily my wife is a fantastic cook. My favorite meal is now Ratatouille. I limit my meat intake.

My wife bakes some muffins and a vanilla cake with chocolate icing for the occasional tea. I can no longer eat ginger biscuits which I used to like a lot. Some jelly and custard with fresh strawberries for evening dessert. I should not have coffee but it is too difficult to break the habit.

At night we sit together and watch an episode of Doc Martin. The days are wonderful and I enjoy the projects. Being forced to move away by the tower was a blessing. The new house is amazing, and the lock up is like a gentle retirement and holiday.

The last few days I repaired a large garden shed in our back yard (wood frame with cement asbestos board) and then set up a rig to move it by myself. I sledgehammered a pick axe into the ground to act like an anchor and then used rope winch to slide the shed. A full 3 meters. Then used the pickaxe as a lever with wedges and raised it so I could put a brick support around the edges. With rope, levers, winches and the like there is not much a single person cannot achieve. Just takes patience.

It seems there might be hope for me yet. I now have to figure out what was different in the last day or two to have caused my state of bliss. One possibility was that I wore my aluminium head shield a lot yesterday. Will try that again today.

PartSkeptic · 9th May 2020, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Here's a wild and crazy idea for you: the universe had no [supernatural] origin, has no purpose, and there is no one in charge of it.

Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence.

Mojo · 9th May 2020, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence.

Turtles all the way down.

Pixel42 · 10th May 2020, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence.

Those of us who have kept up with the scientific discoveries of the last century know otherwise.

Ulf Nereng · 10th May 2020, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real.

Nope. Government funded.

"COST is the abbreviation for ‘European Cooperation in the field of Scientific and Technical research’, which is one of the longest-running European bodies supporting cooperation among scientists and researchers across Europe. It is also the first and widest European intergovernmental network for coordination of nationally funded research activities."

abaddon · 10th May 2020, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence.

Yet when I presented you with a working example of emergence you ran away from it. I wonder why that is.

And you can knock it off with the weird diet baloney, that is off topic for this thread.

Mojo · 10th May 2020, 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng

Nope. Government funded.

"COST is the abbreviation for ‘European Cooperation in the field of Scientific and Technical research’, which is one of the longest-running European bodies supporting cooperation among scientists and researchers across Europe. It is also the first and widest European intergovernmental network for coordination of nationally funded research activities."

I expect that the governments are all in on the conspiracy.

turingtest · 10th May 2020, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence.

Everything that happens certainly has a cause; that's not the same thing as saying that every cause has (or is) a reason. The cause can be demonstrated; the reason could be, but that's the believer's job, and it takes a little more than simply strenuous question-begging, just defining the one thing as necessarily the other, to do that job in a way that would convince anyone who doesn't already believe it. The usual recourse is to say things like "well, god's reasons are mysterious ones, not always for man to discern"; but, since your whole schtick depends on the pretense to discernment, you're gonna need to do better than the usual handwave.

So, how about it? If god is simply the sum of all possible effects, then cause never can be divorced from reason. If you believe that, that's fine; but don't pretend that the question you've begged by religious belief is one you've resolved by any honest approach to science.

bruto · 10th May 2020, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Yet when I presented you with a working example of emergence you ran away from it. I wonder why that is.

And you can knock it off with the weird diet baloney, that is off topic for this thread.

REading that I initially thought "Oh my god, they're making that out of soy beans now?"

Trebuchet · 10th May 2020, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

REading that I initially thought "Oh my god, they're making that out of soy beans now?"

Yes, they are.

We now return you to your regular discussion.

abaddon · 10th May 2020, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

REading that I initially thought "Oh my god, they're making that out of soy beans now?"

That was funny.

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Yes, they are.

We now return you to your regular discussion.

That was WTF?

Trebuchet · 10th May 2020, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

That was funny.
That was WTF?

Baloney made from soybeans.

Lukraak_Sisser · 10th May 2020, 09:05 AM

Actually a better test would even be not using your wife, who would have a clear reason to humor you to make you feel better, but rather use a randomized program that will turn Wifi on and off without any human input and posts the data somewhere you cannot get at it, then you post your data and someone else, who has no interest one way or the other, compares the two.

abaddon · 10th May 2020, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Baloney made from soybeans.

I know, but am wondering why?

tusenfem · 10th May 2020, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

The last few days I repaired a large garden shed in our back yard (wood frame with cement asbestos board) and then set up a rig to move it by myself.
.

Well, that's gonna be great for your health!

Mojo · 10th May 2020, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by tusenfem

Well, that's gonna be great for your health!

Maybe the ~~tinfoil hat~~ aluminium head shield will ward it off.

abaddon · 10th May 2020, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by tusenfem

Well, that's gonna be great for your health!

Sure. 5G is killing him, Asbestos is not. That is a weird position to take.

bruto · 10th May 2020, 02:53 PM

I doubt the garden shed will do you much good, but the moving probably will be good for your health if you do it right (big sidetrack coming here....)

I knew a fellow some time ago who prided himself on being able to move nearly anything with ingenuity, a cheap come-along, and an assortment of logs, levers and chains. He gained some momentary notoriety in California when he moved a small house down a street single-handed. When my sister moved next door to his summer residence in Connecticut, she wanted to revive a filled-in swimming pool, over which a large building had been erected. He came around with his come-along and logs, and had the building well clear of the pool and undamaged in a day.

Be very careful, make sure you know where your leverage points are, and where the balance is. Once you know where a building's center of gravity is, and what angles to push on to take it in the right direction, you can do just about anything short of making it fly.

I once moved a one and a half story house that had fallen off its piers, with levers, cribbing and a good hydraulic jack. I did a smaller, but fairly heavy outbuilding with a hi-lift jack and logs.

And oh yeah, wear a mask. Moving a building will almost certainly stress and crack that asbestos-bearing board.

Even if you don't block any rays, you can have some fun and satisfaction from moving things around. Be careful and have some fun. It's good for the body and soul.

PartSkeptic · 10th May 2020, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

I doubt the garden shed will do you much good, but the moving probably will be good for your health if you do it right (big sidetrack coming here....)

I knew a fellow some time ago who prided himself on being able to move nearly anything with ingenuity, a cheap come-along, and an assortment of logs, levers and chains. He gained some momentary notoriety in California when he moved a small house down a street single-handed. When my sister moved next door to his summer residence in Connecticut, she wanted to revive a filled-in swimming pool, over which a large building had been erected. He came around with his come-along and logs, and had the building well clear of the pool and undamaged in a day.

Be very careful, make sure you know where your leverage points are, and where the balance is. Once you know where a building's center of gravity is, and what angles to push on to take it in the right direction, you can do just about anything short of making it fly.

I once moved a one and a half story house that had fallen off its piers, with levers, cribbing and a good hydraulic jack. I did a smaller, but fairly heavy outbuilding with a hi-lift jack and logs.

And oh yeah, wear a mask. Moving a building will almost certainly stress and crack that asbestos-bearing board.

Even if you don't block any rays, you can have some fun and satisfaction from moving things around. Be careful and have some fun. It's good for the body and soul.

Thanks for confirming that anything can be moved with both practical engineering skills and a little ordinary equipment. And that the achievements are satisfying. I am now doing some welding as I prepare a jacuzzi for installment next to the porch.

I deliberately left off a number of the nails securing the board at the bottom that all had rusted off so that the shed had some flexibility. That way I got not one crack. BTW I am not afraid of asbestos in the cement board. The dangerous stuff is the friable stuff. My Dad worked with asbestos a lot in his life and he died at 95 without any disease. He simply stopped eating.

The warning to wear a mask is nonetheless a good one. I am trying to do personal protection with any engineering project, especially in the roof, or any other dusty job.

Yesterday was not a good day health-wise. Once more I do not know why. So did not do the first experiments. Maybe today a couple.

Other comments are noted.

PartSkeptic · 10th May 2020, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Everything that happens certainly has a cause; that's not the same thing as saying that every cause has (or is) a reason. The cause can be demonstrated; the reason could be, but that's the believer's job, and it takes a little more than simply strenuous question-begging, just defining the one thing as necessarily the other, to do that job in a way that would convince anyone who doesn't already believe it. The usual recourse is to say things like "well, god's reasons are mysterious ones, not always for man to discern"; but, since your whole schtick depends on the pretense to discernment, you're gonna need to do better than the usual handwave.

So, how about it? If god is simply the sum of all possible effects, then cause never can be divorced from reason. If you believe that, that's fine; but don't pretend that the question you've begged by religious belief is one you've resolved by any honest approach to science.

What is your hypothesis for the Prime Cause? Surely not the Big Bang because then one has to ask where the laws of physics and the underlying quantum field came from.

BTW. My hypothesis comes from experience and not from any religious teaching. And science has no answers for a number of my experiences.

Pixel42 · 10th May 2020, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

What is your hypothesis for the Prime Cause? Surely not the Big Bang because then one has to ask where the laws of physics and the underlying quantum field came from.

What is your hypothesis for the Prime Cause? Surely not God because then one has to ask where God came from.

Quote:

BTW. My hypothesis comes from experience and not from any religious teaching. And science has no answers for a number of my experiences.

The fact that you reject the scientific answers does not make them cease to exist.

And even for the questions to which science genuinely does not yet have the answers, precedent would strongly suggest that assuming a supernatural explanation is the wrong way to bet.

turingtest · 11th May 2020, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic

What is your hypothesis for the Prime Cause? Surely not the Big Bang because then one has to ask where the laws of physics and the underlying quantum field came from.

I think I'll just let Pixel42's answer stand for me here.

Quote:

BTW. My hypothesis comes from experience and not from any religious teaching.

That's nice. I didn't say anything about "religious teaching"- I said religious belief, i.e., religion as a method of thought. You can cry about it until the cows come home, but the fact is that what you're calling a "hypothesis," in competition with the sort of thing you'll see in actual science, is not testable. There's just no way to prove wrong a "hypothesis" that covers all the bases in a way that it can only always be right. "God" isn't a theory, it's a response made to stand for one.

Quote:

And science has no answers for a number of my experiences.

No, you have no answers for a number of your experiences- I doubt seriously whether actual science was ever honestly applied. I'm sure that you, in your ponderous way, have constructed all sorts of ways to rationalize for yourself your idea that science is what you're doing; from here, the resemblance is purely superficial, the trappings of the method without any of its rigor. You're trying to prove yourself right when what you should be doing is trying to prove yourself wrong.

Cosmic Yak · 11th May 2020, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

No, you have no answers for a number of your experiences

If I may, I think it's more that science actually has answers for a number of his experiences, but PartSkeptic rejects them all.

PartSkeptic · 11th May 2020, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

What is your hypothesis for the Prime Cause? Surely not God because then one has to ask where God came from.

The fact that you reject the scientific answers does not make them cease to exist.

And even for the questions to which science genuinely does not yet have the answers, precedent would strongly suggest that assuming a supernatural explanation is the wrong way to bet.

God came from the same source as everything else. He too is an illusion. A player in the dream of the Infinite Intelligence.

So where did this Infinite Intelligence come from? It has always existed because there is no time or space. A Prime Cause has no cause. The Laws of Physics are part of the dream. The basic reason that my hypothesis is better than most is because it explains how intelligence and how humankind have emerged. Another reason is that I experienced this entity.

What is the scientific explanation for the Prime Cause. Some say we do not know and may never know.

Others say that the Laws of Physics and the quantum field have always existed. This explanation is suspect because of fine tuning, the many unresolved questions of science (macro theory different to micro theory, more matter than antimatter), and also the inability to explain supernatural events.

Precedent also says that science is as wrong as religion. Both got part of it right and part of it wrong. Both are improving in correcting and updating. At least they should be - taking on my hypothesis which allows science to accept the existence of the supernatural.

PartSkeptic · 11th May 2020, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

If I may, I think it's more that science actually has answers for a number of his experiences, but PartSkeptic rejects them all.

Of course I reject them. They do not fit.

Science thinks it has answers. First it presumes the non-existence of the supernatural and then says that even though the events cannot be explained, there HAS to be a "natural" answer. The square peg is hammered into the round hole.

9th May 2020, 01:09 AM	#361
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,820	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Provided the trials were properly conducted, the funding is irrelevant. Show me a properly conducted trial that got a different result (funding again irrelevant, funded by believers in EHS like you is fine) and I'll start to pay attention. But you can't, can you? All you've got is anecdotes. Quote: Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how you could be fooling yourself. Quote: I take it you also believe that stage magic is real. I once saw David Copperfield saw himself in half and put himself back together again. If, like you, I assumed my personal subjective experiences were the ultimate source of reliable information I would believe that stage magic is real. Stage magicians take advantage of the same cognitive biases by which believers in homeopathy, dowsing and (almost certainly) EHS are allowing themselves to be fooled. That's why it's necessary to be aware of those biases, and to give more credence to properly conducted and blinded trials (regardless of who funded them) than to one's own subjective experiences.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett Last edited by Pixel42; 9th May 2020 at 01:43 AM.

9th May 2020, 01:50 AM	#362
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,557	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real. Did you even read the link?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

9th May 2020, 03:36 AM	#363
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,832	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real. OK, PartSkeptic, why don't you show us how it's done? Here is a link to a meta-study, from that Wiki article. Please dig deep, with a skeptical mind, and demonstrate how this study is a sham, was funded by industry, was designed to fail, and is the equivalent of stage magic. I'm sure I am not alone in wanting to see this demonstration of your analytical skills.
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

9th May 2020, 05:44 AM	#364
p0lka Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 2,169	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic ... My wife now tells me when she turns on her WiFi modem so I can go to the garage and work there and use shielding. I get a headache within 15 minutes if in the house with no shielding. ..... Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real. You are in a position to test this for yourself. Get your wife to test you by turning the wifi on/pretend to turn the wifi on several times a day, you should know which is pretend and which is real within 15 minutes. Make sure you count the misses as well as hits though.
	Last edited by p0lka; 9th May 2020 at 05:45 AM.

9th May 2020, 06:18 AM	#365
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	Originally Posted by p0lka ..... You are in a position to test this for yourself. Get your wife to test you by turning the wifi on/pretend to turn the wifi on several times a day, you should know which is pretend and which is real within 15 minutes. Make sure you count the misses as well as hits though. Good suggestion. At 10 am and 3 pm, I will ask her to put the modem under a shoe box in the room and chose to turn on or pretend to turn on. Give it 30 minutes and then I make a choice of on or off. Easier than the tower. I wonder how many days I can do this. It hammers me. I now have a good routine of meals and tablets and seem okay as far as flu. The problem is in the next few days I must go to the old house and to the factory. But I am willing to try it. It is worse when she is speaking on her phone so I may have to figure out how to do that. Maybe the the modem and I should be in the garage, and when it is on she chats to someone. I will start tomorrow with one off and one on, and record how I feel. She can measure the radiation in the house. Thanks.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

9th May 2020, 06:21 AM	#366
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,820	Originally Posted by p0lka You are in a position to test this for yourself. Get your wife to test you by turning the wifi on/pretend to turn the wifi on several times a day, you should know which is pretend and which is real within 15 minutes. Make sure you count the misses as well as hits though. That's a much simpler test protocol than the one he proposed using foil lined boxes etc to test the effect of cell tower emf. All that's required is for him and his wife to sit in different rooms for a couple of hours each day and keep a written record. Hypothesis: PartSkeptic will develop a headache within 15 minutes of the wifi being switched on. Start with the wifi off. After 30 minutes she tosses a coin and switches it on if it's heads, leaves it off if it's tails. Then every 30 minutes she tosses the coin again and either leaves it as it is or switches it on/off as indicated. He records whether he thinks it's currently on or off five minutes before each coin toss is due. Put both records in envelopes, seal and date before leaving the separate rooms. Repeat a few times to get sufficient results to be statistically significant, then open the envelopes and compare the records. Such an unwitnessed test won't be sufficient to convince anyone else, but the first person you need to convince of an hypothesis is yourself. At the moment he actually has no more reason to be convinced than we do, because the anecdotal evidence he has is wholly inadequate. ETA: PS posted to say he will try it whilst I was posting. I await the result with interest.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett Last edited by Pixel42; 9th May 2020 at 06:22 AM.

9th May 2020, 06:28 AM	#367
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,820	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Good suggestion. At 10 am and 3 pm, I will ask her to put the modem under a shoe box in the room and chose to turn on or pretend to turn on. Give it 30 minutes and then I make a choice of on or off. Easier than the tower. You need to be in a separate room from your wife when she tosses the coin (rather than just deciding for herself), and record whether you think the wifi is on or off before meeting back up with her. I hope you don't need me to explain why.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

9th May 2020, 06:35 AM	#368
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	If God exists he will guide people to change society. Cartoons can often present a scenario in pictures with satiric accuracy. Here is one - and a South African to boot. Must be something in the water. https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/cart...navirus-novel/ Poyton Shute’s “What-If? Scenario” For Millennia Terran societies have harbored wild and crazy ideas about the origins and purpose of the universe, and who’s in charge of it. It’s a “What If” game that has been going on since the beginning of forever. Let’s play. What if our galaxy, the Milky Way, is governed by a Quadrumvirate of the Interstellar Security Council? Omnideus governs the Earth and hundreds of planets with advanced intelligent life. Dinos rules the thousands of planets dominated by Mesozoic-type vertebrates. Etymos oversees the gazillions of arthropods across the Galaxy. Anomalocaris looks after the billions of planets where microbial, unicellular and prevertebrates life forms exist. I.S.C. emergency meeting, circa 1 year ago. Anomalocaris says “This planet is sick. It’s temperature is way above normal/ It’s spewing toxic poisons into the atmosphere”. And he points at Earth. Dinos says “One of yours, is it not, Omnideus?” “Yes” replies Omnideus. “It’s a galactic health risk,” says Dinos. “I am fully aware of it, Dinos. And I am sure I don’t have to remind you that is was in your custody when we last smote it!” counters Omnideus. “With the ateroid, I do recall – as it was yesterday!” grunts Dinos. “A tragic error on our part,” sighs Omnideus. “You are not in favour of extinction?” queries Anomalocaris. “No. We need these Terrans. But they need to grow up. Fast. To repair their ecology, confront their destiny, turn off their machines, go home, reconnect with nature. Allow their planet some time to clear its lungs,” grimaces Omnideus. “But how do we get them to do that?”
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

9th May 2020, 06:37 AM	#369
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	Originally Posted by Pixel42 You need to be in a separate room from your wife when she tosses the coin (rather than just deciding for herself), and record whether you think the wifi is on or off before meeting back up with her. I hope you don't need me to explain why. I know the drill. But thanks. I will video myself now and then, and take written notes.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

9th May 2020, 07:30 AM	#370
RedStapler Guest Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic If God exists he will guide people to change society. Cartoons can often present a scenario in pictures with satiric accuracy. Here is one - and a South African to boot. Must be something in the water. https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/cart...navirus-novel/ Poyton Shute’s “What-If? Scenario” For Millennia Terran societies have harbored wild and crazy ideas about the origins and purpose of the universe, and who’s in charge of it. It’s a “What If” game that has been going on since the beginning of forever. Let’s play. What if our galaxy, the Milky Way, is governed by a Quadrumvirate of the Interstellar Security Council? Omnideus governs the Earth and hundreds of planets with advanced intelligent life. Dinos rules the thousands of planets dominated by Mesozoic-type vertebrates. Etymos oversees the gazillions of arthropods across the Galaxy. Anomalocaris looks after the billions of planets where microbial, unicellular and prevertebrates life forms exist. I.S.C. emergency meeting, circa 1 year ago. Anomalocaris says “This planet is sick. It’s temperature is way above normal/ It’s spewing toxic poisons into the atmosphere”. And he points at Earth. Dinos says “One of yours, is it not, Omnideus?” “Yes” replies Omnideus. “It’s a galactic health risk,” says Dinos. “I am fully aware of it, Dinos. And I am sure I don’t have to remind you that is was in your custody when we last smote it!” counters Omnideus. “With the ateroid, I do recall – as it was yesterday!” grunts Dinos. “A tragic error on our part,” sighs Omnideus. “You are not in favour of extinction?” queries Anomalocaris. “No. We need these Terrans. But they need to grow up. Fast. To repair their ecology, confront their destiny, turn off their machines, go home, reconnect with nature. Allow their planet some time to clear its lungs,” grimaces Omnideus. “But how do we get them to do that?” That's.......something. Originally Posted by PartSkeptic “It’s a galactic health risk,” says Dinos. How so? Dinos seems to be pretty uninformed for the position he is in. Why does he not know that we are barely able to leave this planet except for the ISS? How could we possibly bring this (btw completely undefined) health risk to other places in the galaxy? Looks like our next neighbors are nowhere to be found ) Originally Posted by PartSkeptic We need these Terrans. For what?
RedStapler Guest Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Last edited by RedStapler; 9th May 2020 at 07:36 AM. Reason: typo

9th May 2020, 07:49 AM	#371
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,820	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic For Millennia Terran societies have harbored wild and crazy ideas about the origins and purpose of the universe, and who’s in charge of it. Here's a wild and crazy idea for you: the universe had no [supernatural] origin, has no purpose, and there is no one in charge of it.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

9th May 2020, 08:37 AM	#372
BStrong Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Posts: 13,073	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Good suggestion. At 10 am and 3 pm, I will ask her to put the modem under a shoe box in the room and chose to turn on or pretend to turn on. Give it 30 minutes and then I make a choice of on or off. Easier than the tower. I wonder how many days I can do this. It hammers me. I now have a good routine of meals and tablets and seem okay as far as flu. The problem is in the next few days I must go to the old house and to the factory. But I am willing to try it. It is worse when she is speaking on her phone so I may have to figure out how to do that. Maybe the the modem and I should be in the garage, and when it is on she chats to someone. I will start tomorrow with one off and one on, and record how I feel. She can measure the radiation in the house. Thanks. Complete and utter nonsense.
	__________________ Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

9th May 2020, 09:22 AM	#373
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,417	Originally Posted by Pixel42 Here's a wild and crazy idea for you: the universe had no [supernatural] origin, has no purpose, and there is no one in charge of it. That is a very scary idea to some. Many must have a substitute parent who is watching out for them and has as a plan for their life. Free will is not for everyone
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,417

9th May 2020, 09:39 AM	#374
BStrong Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Posts: 13,073	Originally Posted by Hans That is a very scary idea to some. Many must have a substitute parent who is watching out for them and has as a plan for their life. Free will is not for everyone Well said. I just had a rw conversation on this very subject. There are folks that can't accept "the random" as an actuality - the concept that one could be in the right place at the right time or in any possible variation of that phrase without divine or other intervention or intent is beyond their understanding
	__________________ Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

9th May 2020, 06:06 PM	#375
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,438	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I know the drill. But thanks. I will video myself now and then, and take written notes. Just don’t video yourself with your EMF emitting phone.
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,438	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

9th May 2020, 11:46 PM	#376
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	Originally Posted by EHocking Just don’t video yourself with your EMF emitting phone. Great minds think alike. I realized I should not have a phone with me for two reasons. Even on aeroplane mode it still emits slightly. But I could be accused of using it to detect WiFi sources - even though cheating defeats the purpose. Last night I felt amazing. I mean absolutely blissful. If one draws a line with normal in the middle and pain on the left, I was way on the right. My wife asked me if I had taken drugs. I do not (apart from the one morning Tramadol). I have become so sensitive to chemicals that I cannot drink alcohol and I cannot have anything with preservatives in it. I cannot tolerate anything with a lot of sugar. Okay by me. I now have a very healthy diet. Oats with raisins and milk in the morning. Grapefruit a bit later. Some nuts and dates for a late morning snack. An avocado on cracker bread at noon. The main meal is between 2 and 4 pm. Luckily my wife is a fantastic cook. My favorite meal is now Ratatouille. I limit my meat intake. My wife bakes some muffins and a vanilla cake with chocolate icing for the occasional tea. I can no longer eat ginger biscuits which I used to like a lot. Some jelly and custard with fresh strawberries for evening dessert. I should not have coffee but it is too difficult to break the habit. At night we sit together and watch an episode of Doc Martin. The days are wonderful and I enjoy the projects. Being forced to move away by the tower was a blessing. The new house is amazing, and the lock up is like a gentle retirement and holiday. The last few days I repaired a large garden shed in our back yard (wood frame with cement asbestos board) and then set up a rig to move it by myself. I sledgehammered a pick axe into the ground to act like an anchor and then used rope winch to slide the shed. A full 3 meters. Then used the pickaxe as a lever with wedges and raised it so I could put a brick support around the edges. With rope, levers, winches and the like there is not much a single person cannot achieve. Just takes patience. It seems there might be hope for me yet. I now have to figure out what was different in the last day or two to have caused my state of bliss. One possibility was that I wore my aluminium head shield a lot yesterday. Will try that again today.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

9th May 2020, 11:51 PM	#377
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	Originally Posted by Pixel42 Here's a wild and crazy idea for you: the universe had no [supernatural] origin, has no purpose, and there is no one in charge of it. Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

9th May 2020, 11:57 PM	#378
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,557	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence. Turtles all the way down.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

10th May 2020, 12:01 AM	#379
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,820	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence. Those of us who have kept up with the scientific discoveries of the last century know otherwise.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

10th May 2020, 01:39 AM	#380
Ulf Nereng Muse Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Norway Posts: 554	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Sham industry funded trial designed to fail. Dig deep with a skeptical mind and you may get an idea of how it is done. I take it you also believe that stage magic is real. Nope. Government funded. "COST is the abbreviation for ‘European Cooperation in the field of Scientific and Technical research’, which is one of the longest-running European bodies supporting cooperation among scientists and researchers across Europe. It is also the first and widest European intergovernmental network for coordination of nationally funded research activities."

10th May 2020, 02:32 AM	#381
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,194	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence. Yet when I presented you with a working example of emergence you ran away from it. I wonder why that is. And you can knock it off with the weird diet baloney, that is off topic for this thread.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

10th May 2020, 03:41 AM	#382
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,557	Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng Nope. Government funded. "COST is the abbreviation for ‘European Cooperation in the field of Scientific and Technical research’, which is one of the longest-running European bodies supporting cooperation among scientists and researchers across Europe. It is also the first and widest European intergovernmental network for coordination of nationally funded research activities." I expect that the governments are all in on the conspiracy.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

10th May 2020, 05:29 AM	#383
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,525	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Where on Earth did you get such a wild and crazy idea? So unscientific. We all know that everything has a cause, and that the most simple cause for emergent intelligence is a Prime Cause Intelligence. Everything that happens certainly has a cause; that's not the same thing as saying that every cause has (or is) a reason. The cause can be demonstrated; the reason could be, but that's the believer's job, and it takes a little more than simply strenuous question-begging, just defining the one thing as necessarily the other, to do that job in a way that would convince anyone who doesn't already believe it. The usual recourse is to say things like "well, god's reasons are mysterious ones, not always for man to discern"; but, since your whole schtick depends on the pretense to discernment, you're gonna need to do better than the usual handwave. So, how about it? If god is simply the sum of all possible effects, then cause never can be divorced from reason. If you believe that, that's fine; but don't pretend that the question you've begged by religious belief is one you've resolved by any honest approach to science.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King Last edited by turingtest; 10th May 2020 at 06:54 AM.

10th May 2020, 06:34 AM	#384
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,204	Originally Posted by abaddon Yet when I presented you with a working example of emergence you ran away from it. I wonder why that is. And you can knock it off with the weird diet baloney, that is off topic for this thread. REading that I initially thought "Oh my god, they're making that out of soy beans now?"
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

10th May 2020, 07:44 AM	#385
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,556	Originally Posted by bruto REading that I initially thought "Oh my god, they're making that out of soy beans now?" Yes, they are. We now return you to your regular discussion.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

10th May 2020, 08:29 AM	#386
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,194	Originally Posted by bruto REading that I initially thought "Oh my god, they're making that out of soy beans now?" That was funny. Originally Posted by Trebuchet Yes, they are. We now return you to your regular discussion. That was WTF?
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

10th May 2020, 09:03 AM	#387
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,556	Originally Posted by abaddon That was funny. That was WTF? Baloney made from soybeans.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

10th May 2020, 09:05 AM	#388
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,915	Actually a better test would even be not using your wife, who would have a clear reason to humor you to make you feel better, but rather use a randomized program that will turn Wifi on and off without any human input and posts the data somewhere you cannot get at it, then you post your data and someone else, who has no interest one way or the other, compares the two.

10th May 2020, 09:23 AM	#389
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,194	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Baloney made from soybeans. I know, but am wondering why?
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

10th May 2020, 11:52 AM	#390
tusenfem Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,911	Originally Posted by PartSkeptic The last few days I repaired a large garden shed in our back yard (wood frame with cement asbestos board) and then set up a rig to move it by myself. . Well, that's gonna be great for your health!
tusenfem Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,911	__________________ Scientific progress goes BOINK -- Calvin & Hobbes twitter: @tusenfem -- Super Duper Space Plasma Physicist

10th May 2020, 11:54 AM	#391
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,557	Originally Posted by tusenfem Well, that's gonna be great for your health! Maybe the ~~tinfoil hat~~ aluminium head shield will ward it off.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

10th May 2020, 01:50 PM	#392
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,194	Originally Posted by tusenfem Well, that's gonna be great for your health! Sure. 5G is killing him, Asbestos is not. That is a weird position to take.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

10th May 2020, 02:53 PM	#393
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,204	I doubt the garden shed will do you much good, but the moving probably will be good for your health if you do it right (big sidetrack coming here....) I knew a fellow some time ago who prided himself on being able to move nearly anything with ingenuity, a cheap come-along, and an assortment of logs, levers and chains. He gained some momentary notoriety in California when he moved a small house down a street single-handed. When my sister moved next door to his summer residence in Connecticut, she wanted to revive a filled-in swimming pool, over which a large building had been erected. He came around with his come-along and logs, and had the building well clear of the pool and undamaged in a day. Be very careful, make sure you know where your leverage points are, and where the balance is. Once you know where a building's center of gravity is, and what angles to push on to take it in the right direction, you can do just about anything short of making it fly. I once moved a one and a half story house that had fallen off its piers, with levers, cribbing and a good hydraulic jack. I did a smaller, but fairly heavy outbuilding with a hi-lift jack and logs. And oh yeah, wear a mask. Moving a building will almost certainly stress and crack that asbestos-bearing board. Even if you don't block any rays, you can have some fun and satisfaction from moving things around. Be careful and have some fun. It's good for the body and soul.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) Last edited by bruto; 10th May 2020 at 02:54 PM.

10th May 2020, 10:34 PM	#394
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	Originally Posted by bruto I doubt the garden shed will do you much good, but the moving probably will be good for your health if you do it right (big sidetrack coming here....) I knew a fellow some time ago who prided himself on being able to move nearly anything with ingenuity, a cheap come-along, and an assortment of logs, levers and chains. He gained some momentary notoriety in California when he moved a small house down a street single-handed. When my sister moved next door to his summer residence in Connecticut, she wanted to revive a filled-in swimming pool, over which a large building had been erected. He came around with his come-along and logs, and had the building well clear of the pool and undamaged in a day. Be very careful, make sure you know where your leverage points are, and where the balance is. Once you know where a building's center of gravity is, and what angles to push on to take it in the right direction, you can do just about anything short of making it fly. I once moved a one and a half story house that had fallen off its piers, with levers, cribbing and a good hydraulic jack. I did a smaller, but fairly heavy outbuilding with a hi-lift jack and logs. And oh yeah, wear a mask. Moving a building will almost certainly stress and crack that asbestos-bearing board. Even if you don't block any rays, you can have some fun and satisfaction from moving things around. Be careful and have some fun. It's good for the body and soul. Thanks for confirming that anything can be moved with both practical engineering skills and a little ordinary equipment. And that the achievements are satisfying. I am now doing some welding as I prepare a jacuzzi for installment next to the porch. I deliberately left off a number of the nails securing the board at the bottom that all had rusted off so that the shed had some flexibility. That way I got not one crack. BTW I am not afraid of asbestos in the cement board. The dangerous stuff is the friable stuff. My Dad worked with asbestos a lot in his life and he died at 95 without any disease. He simply stopped eating. The warning to wear a mask is nonetheless a good one. I am trying to do personal protection with any engineering project, especially in the roof, or any other dusty job. Yesterday was not a good day health-wise. Once more I do not know why. So did not do the first experiments. Maybe today a couple. Other comments are noted.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*

10th May 2020, 10:40 PM	#395
PartSkeptic Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,804	Originally Posted by turingtest Everything that happens certainly has a cause; that's not the same thing as saying that every cause has (or is) a reason. The cause can be demonstrated; the reason could be, but that's the believer's job, and it takes a little more than simply strenuous question-begging, just defining the one thing as necessarily the other, to do that job in a way that would convince anyone who doesn't already believe it. The usual recourse is to say things like "well, god's reasons are mysterious ones, not always for man to discern"; but, since your whole schtick depends on the pretense to discernment, you're gonna need to do better than the usual handwave. So, how about it? If god is simply the sum of all possible effects, then cause never can be divorced from reason. If you believe that, that's fine; but don't pretend that the question you've begged by religious belief is one you've resolved by any honest approach to science. What is your hypothesis for the Prime Cause? Surely not the Big Bang because then one has to ask where the laws of physics and the underlying quantum field came from. BTW. My hypothesis comes from experience and not from any religious teaching. And science has no answers for a number of my experiences.
	__________________ *Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.*