Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

The last moments of Ashli Babbitt have been posted to youtube. I won't post a link. You can search. Lots of copies.

Had she not been shot, she would have been the first to get through the broken window of the door of the Members' Lobby.

Speakers Lobby. Don't know what that is, but guessing it is where the Speakers of both houses have offices??

The shooter appears to be below the door level to the left. A security guard?

[uke2se]

Originally Posted by timhau

Nah. She was a part of an unruly mob trying to break in violently. It is entirely understandable that the folks inside feared for their safety.

Yeah, I'd say this was a reasonable use of lethal force, especially if she was given a clear warning before hand, which I hear she was. The cop who shot her was defending himself and any people with him against a mob hell bent on violence. Incidentally he also defended democracy against a radicalized lunatic.

[johnny karate]

Originally Posted by cullennz

And I am sure they will get another couple of years TV interviews over it.

Meanwhile, your opinion will remain of interest to no one.

[dann]

Originally Posted by dudalb

See the moron in the horned helmet and fur coat in the Capitol building ? I hate that guy for two reasons:He is a treasonous insurrectionist and it's such a terrible, incompetent attempt at a Viking costume.

Some people don't go for authenticity.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Olmstead

What exactly is behind there? I guess she might have tried to enter some place where she really, really, really shouldn't have been, but the killing seems a little trigger happy.

I'm not exactly an expert in Capitol security or layout, but as I recall from my one visit there many years ago, there are certain areas open to the public, and others only to staff and members, and others that are only open to members. She was trying to break into one of the members-only areas. The likely answer to what was behind there is "congressmen".

It appears she was shot in the front, so it is very likely that the people in the area with the Representatives decided that the unruly mob that had illegally entered the Capitol, and had just broken the glass on a door, and was currently climbing over the hastily prepared furniture barricade, constituted a threat to the safety of the Representatives and/or staff that was presently in the Speakers Lobby.

There will undoubtedly be an investigation and people more knowledgeable about the duties of the Capitol police will comment on this situation, but at first glance I'm going to have a hard time faulting the security forces for deciding that deadly force was warranted.

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I don't know. Not very many people have been prosecuted for BLM protests whereas the FBI did hunt down and press charges against the Bundy ranch follies IIRC.

Yeah, after years and numerous "follies" by the Bundy crowd. BFD.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Speakers Lobby.

I stand corrected. The footage was a bit blurry and I couldn't read the caption easily.

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Neo fascist media types Nick Fuentes and Baked Alaska both live steamed from Pelosi's office. Presumably this is evidence of participation in criminal evidence and they should be arrested.

https://twitter.com/nathanTbernard/s...794474498?s=19

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? The cops and protesters mingling together, What was this, a block party? Where's the beer? The chips and dip? Why aren't the cops kickin' ass and takin' names? Sheesh!

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by dudalb

No S---t Sherlock. I think a lot of jobs in the top command postions are going to be vacant.

Pink slips should be accompanied with charges of dereliction of duty.,

[CORed]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Speakers Lobby. Don't know what that is, but guessing it is where the Speakers of both houses have offices??

The shooter appears to be below the door level to the left. A security guard?

Well, at the risk of being pedantic, only the House of Representatives has a Speaker. The Senate has a President (the Vice President of the United States) and a President Pro Tempore (who presides if the Vice Preseident is abasent).

[SezMe]

The "Majority Leader" is the Senate's equivalent of the Speaker of the House.

[CORed]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

According to CNN the Capitol Building hasn't been breached since the British did it during the War of 1812.

There was an incident in 1954 where some members of the House of Representatives were shot and wounded by Puerto Rican independence advocates. But they shot from a gallery open to the public.

[Olmstead]

Originally Posted by uke2se

Yeah, I'd say this was a reasonable use of lethal force, especially if she was given a clear warning before hand, which I hear she was. The cop who shot her was defending himself and any people with him against a mob hell bent on violence. Incidentally he also defended democracy against a radicalized lunatic.

My problem is that there is a discrepancy between the shooting and the general atmosphere before it. If the idiots were this close to being shot, why aren't the police doing more to force them out of there? They're just standing there chatting as if all this is perfectly reasonable and suddenly the woman is shot. If shooting her was appropriate, then the people in that room should have been on the floor in handcuffs.

In other words, Police, what the ****?

[Resume]

Colbert roasts the living **** out of seditionists and their republican enablers.

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I AGREE

Hey, Republicans Who Supported This President: Are We Great Again Yet? - LIVE MONOLOGUE

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by CORed

Well, at the risk of being pedantic, only the House of Representatives has a Speaker. The Senate has a President (the Vice President of the United States) and a President Pro Tempore (who presides if the Vice Preseident is abasent).

Originally Posted by SezMe

The "Majority Leader" is the Senate's equivalent of the Speaker of the House.

Well....by circumstance, the "Majority Leader" is the Senate's equivalent of the Speaker of the House most of the time, but not because he is the Majority Leader.

Most technically, the 1 to 1 equivalent to the Speaker of the House is the President of the Senate, who as CORed points out is the Vice President of the United States. In practice and recent tradition, since this individual is usually present only occasionally, the functional equivalent of the Speaker of the House is the President Pro Tempore of the Senate whenever the VP isn't there. Traditionally, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate is usually the Senate majority leader, but it doesn't have to be the majority leader.

Right now, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate is not majority leader Mitch McConnell, it's Republican senator Chuck Grassley.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by SezMe

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? The cops and protesters mingling together, What was this, a block party? Where's the beer? The chips and dip? Why aren't the cops kickin' ass and takin' names? Sheesh!

Yep. Can you imagine if 4000 black people formed a mob and stormed into the Capitol building? I hate these type of racial comparisons. And I can understand that the police maybe wanted to just let these people in and sort it out slow so that it didn't erupt into a massive riot. But...can you really see this happening if those people were black?

I hate that I have to even think about that.

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Yep. Can you imagine if 4000 black people formed a mob and stormed into the Capitol building?

A mob of angry black people wouldn't have made it up the steps before blood was flowing.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Yep. Can you imagine if 4000 black people formed a mob and stormed into the Capitol building? I hate these type of racial comparisons. And I can understand that the police maybe wanted to just let these people in and sort it out slow so that it didn't erupt into a massive riot. But...can you really see this happening if those people were black?

I hate that I have to even think about that.

I don't.

What these folks need is, frankly, more of these treasoners gunned down. Then maybe they'll think "Oh, wait, this isn't like on Xbox, I don't just respawn at a checkpoint."

Much as I've been laughing with black twitter, black protestors know damn well that just marching down the street means being subject to state violence while these slack jawed goons cheer it on.

Am I sad that that one woman got shot? No, sorry. Sauce for the goose and all that.

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Yep. Can you imagine if 4000 black people formed a mob and stormed into the Capitol building? I hate these type of racial comparisons. And I can understand that the police maybe wanted to just let these people in and sort it out slow so that it didn't erupt into a massive riot. But...can you really see this happening if those people were black?

I hate that I have to even think about that.

Maybe it would be easier to explain what you are talking about and your perceived idea of differences in outcome and or police tactics

[lionking]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Maybe it would be easier to explain what you are talking about and your perceived idea of differences in outcome and or police tactics

Are you ******* serious? Have you slept through George Floyd and all the other blacks killed by police for far lesser crimes than an attempted coup?

Do you seriously think that police would have greeted black protesters storming the Capitol with smiles and pats on the back?

Please answer.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by SezMe

Pink slips should be accompanied with charges of dereliction of duty.,

The Capitol Police are not a military organization under the UCMJ;you can be fired for dereliction of duty but not imprisoned.

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by lionking

Are you ******* serious? Have you slept through George Floyd and all the other blacks killed by police for far lesser crimes than an attempted coup?

Do you seriously think that police would have greeted black protesters storming the Capitol with smiles and pats on the back?

Please answer.

Yeah you got me.

I must have slept through the time 4000 black people infiltrating the Capitol Building and the difference in police tactics on billions of TV screens streamed live globally.

Do you mind reminding me of the difference again?

[Matthew Best]

The difference:

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

The difference:

I wonder how annoyed the idiot at the front was when he realised one of his horns must have fallen off.

Edit: Could swear the dude behind him is trying to be a skinny Dalek and the dude behind him is wearing one of those weirdo animal onseys

[lionking]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Yeah you got me.

I must have slept through the time 4000 black people infiltrating the Capitol Building and the difference in police tactics on billions of TV screens streamed live globally.

Do you mind reminding me of the difference again?

Unbelievable.

[lionking]

So are there any other participants in this thread who think the race of the invaders of the Capitol played a part in the initial police reaction? That it would make no difference whether the invaders were (mainly) white or black?

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by lionking

Unbelievable.

I was answering this.

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Yep. Can you imagine if 4000 black people formed a mob and stormed into the Capitol building? I hate these type of racial comparisons. And I can understand that the police maybe wanted to just let these people in and sort it out slow so that it didn't erupt into a massive riot. But...can you really see this happening if those people were black?
I hate that I have to even think about that.

Do you mind clarifying what DA means (obviously you are not speaking for him)

And how you think it would work differently on global networks?

Thanks

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by lionking

So are there any other participants in this thread who think the race of the invaders of the Capitol played a part in the initial police reaction? That it would make no difference whether the invaders were (mainly) white or black?

Genuinely?

I personally think their security was atrocious and lax.

Probably because of all the boarding up and over the top stuff on election day proved kind of pointless.

This in the grand scheme of things was a formality.

The orange idiot wound people up enough to create this mess.

Why his Twitter account was still valid is beyond me, but guess cash from clicks

[lionking]

Originally Posted by cullennz

I was answering this.



Do you mind clarifying what DA means (obviously you are not speaking for him)

And how you think it would work differently on global networks?

Thanks

Still unbelievable.

He means that black invaders would have been treated far more harshly than whites. There are centuries of experience which support this belief, and that experience has been turbocharged in the past year. How can you possibly dispute this?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Genuinely?

I personally think their security was atrocious and lax.

Probably because of all the boarding up and over the top stuff on election day proved kind of pointless.

This in the grand scheme of things was a formality.

The orange idiot wound people up enough to create this mess.

Why his Twitter account was still valid is beyond me, but guess cash from clicks

Why can’t you answer the ******* question? Do you think the race of the invaders effected the police response?

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by lionking

Why can’t you answer the ******* question? Do you think the race of the invaders effected the police response?

No idea, as we have no comparison.

This is supposed to be a Skeptics Forum.

Are you saying there were no black people in amongst the idiots?

Plenty voted Trump

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

A mob of angry black people wouldn't have made it up the steps before blood was flowing.

We were talking about that very subject today and the wide agreement was that if it had been blacks instead of boofheads there would have been a major bloodbath.

As it is, there are four fewer Trump voters now, so there's a positive.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by lionking

Still unbelievable.

He means that black invaders would have been treated far more harshly than whites. There are centuries of experience which support this belief, and that experience has been turbocharged in the past year. How can you possibly dispute this?

I agree. BLM wouldn't have pulled a stunt like this, but if they had, IMO:

• The Capitol Police wouldn't have been taking selfies with them beforehand
• Federal Law enforcement would have been in site in numbers
• They wouldn't have been allowed access to the building
• They wouldn't have been given a gentle helping hand down the steps afterwards
• The death toll would have been in the hundreds

[Venom]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

We were talking about that very subject today and the wide agreement was that if it had been blacks instead of boofheads there would have been a major bloodbath.

As it is, there are four fewer Trump voters now, so there's a positive.

And more of these same "freedom luvin" Trumpers calling for law enforcement to shoot them from the rooftops as they even approach the steps.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by cullennz

No idea, as we have no comparison.

This is supposed to be a Skeptics Forum.

Are you saying there were no black people in amongst the idiots?

Plenty voted Trump

You have been shown comparisons between how BLM protesters were treated by police and how these invaders were.

Your denial of this is very telling.

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by lionking

You have been shown comparisons between how BLM protesters were treated by police and how these invaders were.

Your denial of this is very telling.

I thought people were saying this was historically earth shatteringly unheard of.

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

We were talking about that very subject today and the wide agreement was that if it had been blacks instead of boofheads there would have been a major bloodbath.

As it is, there are four fewer Trump voters now, so there's a positive.

I think you know that is bollocks Atheist.

They wouldn't have wiped out 4000 people on global TV no matter who they were.

They tend tend to do their racist "kill for thrill if they are black" if they get to "accidently" turn the cameras off, and there isn't many around

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by cullennz

I think you know that is bollocks Atheist.

No, I'm certain there would have been considerably more bloodshed.

Originally Posted by cullennz

They wouldn't have wiped out 4000 people on global TV no matter who they were.

What does the number 4000 have to do with anything?

Very good piece here on the complete balls-up by security/police, if it hasn't already been posted, and I agree there are some heads that should roll - utterly hopeless response by the pigs. It wasn't exactly a surprise attack.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by The Don

I agree. BLM wouldn't have pulled a stunt like this, but if they had, IMO:

• The Capitol Police wouldn't have been taking selfies with them beforehand
• Federal Law enforcement would have been in site in numbers
• They wouldn't have been allowed access to the building
• They wouldn't have been given a gentle helping hand down the steps afterwards
• The death toll would have been in the hundreds

Nah. They'd have been arrested or shot before they even got there.

Again, *two* tweets about a "purge", neither linked to any actual person, were enough for Baltimore PD to attack high school kids trying to get home from school, set off a riot, and "confiscate" prescription pills to sell on the black market thanks to the Gun Trace Task Force. These guys planned this out publicly for week, put their names all over it, and aside from one gang leader were allowed into Capitol Hill.

Again, a good bloodbath or two would likely teach them a lesson.

If they said "Hey, let's march nonviolently, here's the route, we've got a stage set up for speeches," I'd nod and say that it's their right. But this was planned and organized violence, instigated by actual thugs like Toupee Fiasco, Ted Cruz, and Hawley. Toss these guys out, disbar Dolt 45's lawyers, charge all of them with the sedition laws they themselves insisted on.

[cullennz]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

No, I'm certain there would have been considerably more bloodshed.



What does the number 4000 have to do with anything?

Very good piece here on the complete balls-up by security/police, if it hasn't already been posted, and I agree there are some heads that should roll - utterly hopeless response by the pigs. It wasn't exactly a surprise attack.

Totally agree.

But the hypotheticals for imaginary comparisons to imaginary situations is a bit silly