What did Trump & Supporters expect on Jan 6? - Page 2

Meadmaker · 8th January 2021, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

We, you and I, all of us together, are going to march up Pennsylvania Avenue to the capitol. That's right, I'm joining you. All of us will hold hands. I will put my arms around whoever's closest. You. Me. Marching. I'll pose for selfies. I'll lead you in song. I'll sign tits with my Sharpie until my hand cramps up. Okay? Ready? On your mark, get set, let's go!

I don't think those were his precise words, although they would have been much more interesting. I did look up his actual words, and I think in doing so, I figured out what they might have been thinking. (If "thinking" could be used in this situation.)

Originally Posted by Trump

So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I think most of the people had it in their head that Mike Pence and/or the Senate could reject the votes. They were going to prop up the weak Republicans and give them the courage to do the right thing and reject the electoral votes.

Yes, that's crazy. That's not the way it works, but that's the point of the "post fact world" that Joe referred to. Trump could tell them that Pence could do it. Trump could tell them that the Senate Republicans could stand strong and prevent the "steal". Trump may have even believed it. He's not living in reality, himself.

AnonyMoose · 8th January 2021, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

A lot of rightwing websites are using exactly this defense. I would guess that one thing neither Trump nor his supporters expected is any need to defend them for doing what they thought needed to be done by denying them the credit they expected for doing it.

Spineless cowards will never own up to their actions. Unless public reaction ended up to be a positive one... then, of course, they would immediately jump up on their soapboxes and proudly take full credit. Ooo rah.

Their Jenny-Craig-weightloss-program-flunky, holier-than-jeebus, orange-is-the-new-black, KFC-inhaling messiah is a spineless coward. Ergo, so too are his underling minions.

Mojo · 8th January 2021, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

I'm beginning to think that ex-member Interesting Ian might have been right about the existence of P-Zombies, incapable of conscious thought, only capable of reaction to input.

But how many times does the input need to be punched in?

Jack by the hedge · 8th January 2021, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I don't think those were his precise words, although they would have been much more interesting. I did look up his actual words, and I think in doing so, I figured out what they might have been thinking. (If "thinking" could be used in this situation.)

I think most of the people had it in their head that Mike Pence and/or the Senate could reject the votes. They were going to prop up the weak Republicans and give them the courage to do the right thing and reject the electoral votes.

Yes, that's crazy. That's not the way it works, but that's the point of the "post fact world" that Joe referred to. Trump could tell them that Pence could do it. Trump could tell them that the Senate Republicans could stand strong and prevent the "steal". Trump may have even believed it. He's not living in reality, himself.

That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation.

Horatius · 8th January 2021, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation.

Rorschach Squawk.

What it means tells you more about you than what was said.

dudalb · 8th January 2021, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

A lot of rightwing websites are using exactly this defense. I would guess that one thing neither Trump nor his supporters expected is any need to defend them for doing what they thought needed to be done by denying them the credit they expected for doing it.

That several of the people caught on film were well known MAGA "leaders' seems ignoted by the fools pushing this theory.
That, and Antifa is not any where near capalbe of pullin goff something like this.

turingtest · 8th January 2021, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation.

What a defense- "Your honor, our client, a man who has been President for the last four years, is such an incoherent nincompoop that nothing he says can ever reasonably be held to be what anybody else may have understood him to mean."

Dave Rogers · 8th January 2021, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

That, and Antifa is not any where near capalbe of pullin goff something like this.

Beware of following the reversal of the burden of proof. Nobody should need to argue that Antifa couldn't have done this; we know Trump’s supporters did it, and those claiming otherwise need to provide evidence.

Dave

Mike! · 8th January 2021, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Horatius

Those were other cops, who were just a bit too late to the party to be of much use.

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

I believe, those were Capitol Police security with long guns. Some kind of SWAT style unit. But I guess they could've been terrorists in uniform.

I hadn't seen who was holding the guns, only that someone in the pic had them, and I assumed (I know) they were with the rest of her little surprise party.

gnome · 8th January 2021, 11:40 AM

I think the bulk of the crowd thought that a "friendly" mass outside would inspire the congresscritters inside to boldly vote with what they "knew in their hearts was true", that the election had been stolen.

Add to that some people that wanted to do some more direct intimidating by pressing against the barricades, expecting a stalemate that would make the people inside a little worried about what would happen if they didn't vote right.

Add to that some people that very much wanted to breach the barricades to "get them sumbitches". I think their plan was to violently confront all the evil politicians, possibly a hostage standoff after only a few necessary executions, and then the President declares martial law and sends the troops in to stop the obviously traitorous capitol guards defending the steal, and then someone starts a slow clap, and everyone joins in, and the troops lead away all the surviving swamp creatures and guards in shackles, Pence declares Trump the obvious legitimate winner, and everyone gets free ice cream and beers while Darryl Worley composes a new song on the spot.

turingtest · 8th January 2021, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

That several of the people caught on film were well known MAGA "leaders' seems ignoted by the fools pushing this theory.
That, and Antifa is not any where near capalbe of pullin goff something like this.

Well, according to Kevin Sorbo-

Quote:

To all the people who actually believe that it was Trump supporters who started the riot today:
Where was antifa and BLM to counter? They show up to every single event, so why not this one?

-the fact that Antifa/BLM were visibly present at other events is why you should believe they were invisibly present for this one- you know they must have been there because they weren't. That's a knot in logic that, by design, cannot be unknotted.

Gord_in_Toronto · 8th January 2021, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation.

I think his way of speaking is that of a cleverly learned con-man. Always have plausible deniability. It's "my generals of told me", "some one said", "I saw it on social media', "people are saying". No one ever gets an answer if you ask him, "Well, what do think about this". He just does not answer, or repeats some ****, or changes the topic by shouting loudly over the questioner. All exemplified in his telephone call to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger of Georgia.

Gord_in_Toronto · 8th January 2021, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Well, according to Kevin Sorbo-

-the fact that Antifa/BLM were visibly present at other events is why you should believe they were invisibly present for this one- you know they must have been there because they weren't. That's a knot in logic that, by design, cannot be unknotted.

Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to?

RolandRat · 8th January 2021, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Trump just whores for attention. And that's one thing he's good at.

Yep and I think that was exactly what he did here. I don't believe he actually thought that mob where actually going to overturn the election. He just gets off on being able to get these people to do what he wants.

dudalb · 8th January 2021, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to?

Or maybe they were just following Napoleon's advice about don't interfere when your enemy is destroying himself.

dudalb · 8th January 2021, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by RolandRat

Yep and I think that was exactly what he did here. I don't believe he actually thought that mob where actually going to overturn the election. He just gets off on being able to get these people to do what he wants.

I don't even think he expected them to acutally storm the Capitol. He has some media savvy
and must have known that would be bad optics.
This is NOT a defense of the Orange Turd .

turingtest · 8th January 2021, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to?

And other people (not naming any names) listened to another guy (not naming any names, but rhymes with "Trump") (USA Today) and came like he asked them to?

Nah- that would make...sense; it actually adds up instead of cancelling itself out.

lobosrul5 · 8th January 2021, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mike!

I hadn't seen who was holding the guns, only that someone in the pic had them, and I assumed (I know) they were with the rest of her little surprise party.

Here is the video, well one of them, theres more than one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Pretty clearly its police with long guns.

paiute · 8th January 2021, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Add to that some people that very much wanted to breach the barricades

Add to that the several patriotic Americans who were there to try and install rootkits on secure PCs on behalf of foreign intelligence agencies.

Mike! · 8th January 2021, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Here is the video, well one of them, theres more than one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Pretty clearly its police with long guns.

That's not the video I had seen, had I, there'd be no mistake. When you watch that video, once it's focused on the doorway, you'll see a guy on the far left in dark clothes, he's taking video too. That's the video perspective I saw, and I assume was taken by him, so all I saw was the ends of the guns. I had seen a video of the guy in blue in the middle, minutes afterward, being interviewed outside, that was the first word on the woman being shot that I posted elsewhere here that day.

dudalb · 8th January 2021, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Here is the video, well one of them, theres more than one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Pretty clearly its police with long guns.

If that the video I think it is...youtube wont let me see it becase of age restrictions...the cops with long guns are a DC Swat Team armed with shotguns coming in, probably attracted by the gunshot.
What is amusing is when they show up the brave, heroic Trump revolutionaries back down very fast.....

PhantomWolf · 8th January 2021, 09:45 PM

I get the thinking went something like this...

1) Stage a revolution and take over the Capitol.
2) Wave flags and shout about how the Election was stolen.
3) Suddenly and somehow convince everyone that an investigation was needed.
4) Get Congress to halt the count and hold an investigation into the Election
5) Find the obvious and totally undebunkable evidence of fraud that no one has been able to show as of yet.
6) Have the "Real vote" restored showing that Trump won with 75% of the vote
7) Have Trump declared the winner and President for Life because the Democrats cheated and tried to stage a coup by stealing the election.
8) Have Joe and Hunter Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Kamalia Harris, and all the other Democrats arrested and tried for Treason for stealing the election.
9) Have the Democrat Party dissolved nationwide and make the Republican party the one and only allowed Party of the US.

Trebuchet · 8th January 2021, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

I get the thinking went something like this...

1) Stage a revolution and take over the Capitol.
2) Wave flags and shout about how the Election was stolen.
3) Suddenly and somehow convince everyone that an investigation was needed.
4) Get Congress to halt the count and hold an investigation into the Election
5) Find the obvious and totally undebunkable evidence of fraud that no one has been able to show as of yet.
6) Have the "Real vote" restored showing that Trump won with 75% of the vote
7) Have Trump declared the winner and President for Life because the Democrats cheated and tried to stage a coup by stealing the election.
8) Have Joe and Hunter Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Kamalia Harris, and all the other Democrats arrested and tried for Treason for stealing the election.
9) Have the Democrat Party dissolved nationwide and make the Republican party the one and only allowed Party of the US.

That seems to be pretty much it.

Ladewig · 8th January 2021, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Again that's how we use to think back before the post-fact world. That question makes no sense in a post-fact world because it assume the election results are a "fact" that can't be changed.

No. They didn't think they could overturn the election. But that didn't wasn't the point. They wanted to create an alternative narrative where what happened in the election was some kind of debatable opinion instead of an objective fact.

I think you’re right.

It is always dangerous to make conclusions about what Trump thinks, but I consider the possibility that he wanted to make it debatable and drag that out for as long as he could. I can easily see him (erroneously) thinking “if a winner cannot be identified then I get to stay president.”

smartcooky · 9th January 2021, 01:00 AM

I don't what they were expecting. The carrying of zip ties by some suggest some were looking to take prisoners.

However, NOW there are many who are feeling betrayed by Trump after his concession speech and call for the insurrectionists to be prosecuted. Its all over Parler and other extreme right wing social media...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1784318.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ack-of-support

timhau · 9th January 2021, 01:09 AM

So... they latched their fortunes onto a cowardly grifter whose MO is to throw anyone under the bus to save his own ass, and now they're whining about the tire tracks on their skin?

Trump was right about one thing, they really are special.

Solitaire · 9th January 2021, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by Olmstead

1. Get into the chambers while congressmen and congresswomen are still inside.

2. Shout Trump propaganda at them for hours.

3. ???

4. Trump is re-elected.

Number 3 might involve violence.

Um, no, on step two, I think.

I watched the 40 minute video of a guy who got close in on the action
by saying, "I've got a knife." An three times using that line he got right
up to the door.

Maybe he didn't have a knife and was bluffing.

Or, when the FBI catches him, they'll run his DNA through a cross check
in the computer for some unsolved murders in his area and come up with
some positive identifications.

P. S. He didn't seem all that concerned when the woman breaking down
the door got shot.

Didactylos · 9th January 2021, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation.

I think this inability is one of the most important factors in the rise of Trump.

When written down a Trump speech is a jumble of broken, half-finished (and often unfinishable) sentences seguing into other half-finished sentences, garnished with bombastic adjectives, assurances that this is the unvarnished truth, lots of repeating for emphasis and an anecdote about a big, teary eyed man who addresses him as "sir". You could call it stream-of-consciousness except that really oversells it, stream makes it sound like something graceful and organic. This is more like a whirlpool of half consciousness, or pinball of platitudes.

But Trump has a clear, confident voice and for a lot of people that's enough when they already essentially believe he agrees with them. So they take those half finished sentences that sound like something they agree with (and ignore those they don't agree with, which is easy because none of the sentences really mean anything) and out of them in their head they construct a speech which says what they want to hear.

ETA: My gist is that if Trump spoke in complete sentences it would be a lot more obvious how boring Trump is, how much he contradicts himself and how much of a swamp-critter he is.

Captain_Swoop · 9th January 2021, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

What a defense- "Your honor, our client, a man who has been President for the last four years, is such an incoherent nincompoop that nothing he says can ever reasonably be held to be what anybody else may have understood him to mean."

Like Rimmer's defence?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Captain_Swoop · 9th January 2021, 06:32 AM

Don't forget he tweeted while the mob were marching on the Capitol that Pence was supporting the vote and had betrayed everyone.

dmaker · 9th January 2021, 08:25 AM

Surely this must end with Trump behind bars. If the US is to save any face on the world stage, this has to end with Trump in prison. The US must show the world what happens to would be dictators.

If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world?

Mader Levap · 9th January 2021, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by dmaker

If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world?

Correct one. USA is laughingstock.

TragicMonkey · 9th January 2021, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by dmaker

Surely this must end with Trump behind bars. If the US is to save any face on the world stage, this has to end with Trump in prison. The US must show the world what happens to would be dictators.

If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world?

I wonder if Mar-al-Lago's security is better than the Capitol's? What one angry mob can attempt so can another.

Flo · 9th January 2021, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by dmaker

Surely this must end with Trump behind bars. If the US is to save any face on the world stage, this has to end with Trump in prison. The US must show the world what happens to would be dictators.

If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world?

The rest of the world lost any hope 4 years ago

Babbylonian · 9th January 2021, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Well, according to Kevin Sorbo-

-the fact that Antifa/BLM were visibly present at other events is why you should believe they were invisibly present for this one- you know they must have been there because they weren't. That's a knot in logic that, by design, cannot be unknotted.

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to?

Originally Posted by dudalb

Or maybe they were just following Napoleon's advice about don't interfere when your enemy is destroying himself.

It's far simpler than all that: They (we) had already won. Why take time away from home and work to counter a rally for a president who is on the way out? Who could have predicted that a president - even this one - would encourage his supporters (cult) to attack Congress and his own vice president?

There are good reasons most people were shocked by this even despite the unprecedented behavior of the rapist-in-chief.

Mader Levap · 9th January 2021, 10:14 AM

I don't know what they expected. I do know what actually happened later.

Trebuchet · 9th January 2021, 10:16 AM

I sincerely hope he has ruined his life.
Unlike those like the guy who tased himself and died, merely ruining his family's lives.

Darat · 9th January 2021, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

It's far simpler than all that: They (we) had already won. Why take time away from home and work to counter a rally for a president who is on the way out? Who could have predicted that a president - even this one - would encourage his supporters (cult) to attack Congress and his own vice president?

There are good reasons most people were shocked by this even despite the unprecedented behavior of the rapist-in-chief.

Please you can’t call him “the rapist-in-chief’, as his lawyer - a M Cohen - said in 2015 “....And, of course, understand that by the very definition, you can’t rape your spouse. It is true, you cannot rape your spouse. And there’s very clear case law.” And I am sure you will like me have the utmost respect for the legal opinion of such a learned lawyer.

I believe the correct title is “not-rape-rape-rapist-in-chief”.

timhau · 9th January 2021, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

I don't know what they expected. I do know what actually happened later.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...yvq8tbba61.png

Poor thing, did they take away his knitcap? It went so well with the poop-eating grin.

fromdownunder · 9th January 2021, 01:17 PM

I know it sounds childish and petty, but I sincerely hope that Mace girl has read about all the arrests and is hiding in her bedroom and wetting herself every time somebody knocks on the door.

After all, she did confess to taking part in a Revolution.

Norm

8th January 2021, 10:16 AM	#41
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 24,859	Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin We, you and I, all of us together, are going to march up Pennsylvania Avenue to the capitol. That's right, I'm joining you. All of us will hold hands. I will put my arms around whoever's closest. You. Me. Marching. I'll pose for selfies. I'll lead you in song. I'll sign tits with my Sharpie until my hand cramps up. Okay? Ready? On your mark, get set, let's go! I don't think those were his precise words, although they would have been much more interesting. I did look up his actual words, and I think in doing so, I figured out what they might have been thinking. (If "thinking" could be used in this situation.) Originally Posted by Trump So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I think most of the people had it in their head that Mike Pence and/or the Senate could reject the votes. They were going to prop up the weak Republicans and give them the courage to do the right thing and reject the electoral votes. Yes, that's crazy. That's not the way it works, but that's the point of the "post fact world" that Joe referred to. Trump could tell them that Pence could do it. Trump could tell them that the Senate Republicans could stand strong and prevent the "steal". Trump may have even believed it. He's not living in reality, himself.
	__________________ Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?

8th January 2021, 10:27 AM	#42
AnonyMoose Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2018 Location: Land of the Frozen Chosen Posts: 1,000	Originally Posted by turingtest A lot of rightwing websites are using exactly this defense. I would guess that one thing neither Trump nor his supporters expected is any need to defend them for doing what they thought needed to be done by denying them the credit they expected for doing it. Spineless cowards will never own up to their actions. Unless public reaction ended up to be a positive one... then, of course, they would immediately jump up on their soapboxes and proudly take full credit. Ooo rah. Their Jenny-Craig-weightloss-program-flunky, holier-than-jeebus, orange-is-the-new-black, KFC-inhaling messiah is a spineless coward. Ergo, so too are his underling minions.
	__________________ "Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." ~ Emo Phillips

8th January 2021, 10:33 AM	#43
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,604	Originally Posted by shemp I'm beginning to think that ex-member Interesting Ian might have been right about the existence of P-Zombies, incapable of conscious thought, only capable of reaction to input. But how many times does the input need to be punched in?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

8th January 2021, 11:16 AM	#45
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,926	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation. Rorschach Squawk. What it means tells you more about you than what was said.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

8th January 2021, 11:25 AM	#46
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,005	Originally Posted by turingtest A lot of rightwing websites are using exactly this defense. I would guess that one thing neither Trump nor his supporters expected is any need to defend them for doing what they thought needed to be done by denying them the credit they expected for doing it. That several of the people caught on film were well known MAGA "leaders' seems ignoted by the fools pushing this theory. That, and Antifa is not any where near capalbe of pullin goff something like this.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th January 2021, 10:42 AM	#44
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,788	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I don't think those were his precise words, although they would have been much more interesting. I did look up his actual words, and I think in doing so, I figured out what they might have been thinking. (If "thinking" could be used in this situation.) I think most of the people had it in their head that Mike Pence and/or the Senate could reject the votes. They were going to prop up the weak Republicans and give them the courage to do the right thing and reject the electoral votes. Yes, that's crazy. That's not the way it works, but that's the point of the "post fact world" that Joe referred to. Trump could tell them that Pence could do it. Trump could tell them that the Senate Republicans could stand strong and prevent the "steal". Trump may have even believed it. He's not living in reality, himself. That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation.

8th January 2021, 11:26 AM	#47
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,573	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation. What a defense- "Your honor, our client, a man who has been President for the last four years, is such an incoherent nincompoop that nothing he says can ever reasonably be held to be what anybody else may have understood him to mean."
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

8th January 2021, 11:31 AM	#48
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,254	Originally Posted by dudalb That, and Antifa is not any where near capalbe of pullin goff something like this. Beware of following the reversal of the burden of proof. Nobody should need to argue that Antifa couldn't have done this; we know Trump’s supporters did it, and those claiming otherwise need to provide evidence. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

8th January 2021, 11:36 AM	#49
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 39,784	Originally Posted by Horatius Those were other cops, who were just a bit too late to the party to be of much use. Originally Posted by lobosrul5 I believe, those were Capitol Police security with long guns. Some kind of SWAT style unit. But I guess they could've been terrorists in uniform. I hadn't seen who was holding the guns, only that someone in the pic had them, and I assumed (I know) they were with the rest of her little surprise party.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

8th January 2021, 11:40 AM	#50
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,846	I think the bulk of the crowd thought that a "friendly" mass outside would inspire the congresscritters inside to boldly vote with what they "knew in their hearts was true", that the election had been stolen. Add to that some people that wanted to do some more direct intimidating by pressing against the barricades, expecting a stalemate that would make the people inside a little worried about what would happen if they didn't vote right. Add to that some people that very much wanted to breach the barricades to "get them sumbitches". I think their plan was to violently confront all the evil politicians, possibly a hostage standoff after only a few necessary executions, and then the President declares martial law and sends the troops in to stop the obviously traitorous capitol guards defending the steal, and then someone starts a slow clap, and everyone joins in, and the troops lead away all the surviving swamp creatures and guards in shackles, Pence declares Trump the obvious legitimate winner, and everyone gets free ice cream and beers while Darryl Worley composes a new song on the spot.
	__________________ Last edited by gnome; 8th January 2021 at 11:46 AM.

8th January 2021, 11:49 AM	#51
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,573	Originally Posted by dudalb That several of the people caught on film were well known MAGA "leaders' seems ignoted by the fools pushing this theory. That, and Antifa is not any where near capalbe of pullin goff something like this. Well, according to Kevin Sorbo- Quote: To all the people who actually believe that it was Trump supporters who started the riot today: Where was antifa and BLM to counter? They show up to every single event, so why not this one? -the fact that Antifa/BLM were visibly present at other events is why you should believe they were invisibly present for this one- you know they must have been there because they weren't. That's a knot in logic that, by design, cannot be unknotted.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King Last edited by turingtest; 8th January 2021 at 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling

8th January 2021, 12:24 PM	#52
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,189	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation. I think his way of speaking is that of a cleverly learned con-man. Always have plausible deniability. It's "my generals of told me", "some one said", "I saw it on social media', "people are saying". No one ever gets an answer if you ask him, "Well, what do think about this". He just does not answer, or repeats some ****, or changes the topic by shouting loudly over the questioner. All exemplified in his telephone call to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger of Georgia.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

8th January 2021, 12:28 PM	#53
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,189	Originally Posted by turingtest Well, according to Kevin Sorbo- -the fact that Antifa/BLM were visibly present at other events is why you should believe they were invisibly present for this one- you know they must have been there because they weren't. That's a knot in logic that, by design, cannot be unknotted. Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

8th January 2021, 12:34 PM	#54
RolandRat Muse Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 864	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Trump just whores for attention. And that's one thing he's good at. Yep and I think that was exactly what he did here. I don't believe he actually thought that mob where actually going to overturn the election. He just gets off on being able to get these people to do what he wants.
RolandRat Muse Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 864

8th January 2021, 12:37 PM	#55
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,005	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to? Or maybe they were just following Napoleon's advice about don't interfere when your enemy is destroying himself.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th January 2021, 12:39 PM	#56
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,005	Originally Posted by RolandRat Yep and I think that was exactly what he did here. I don't believe he actually thought that mob where actually going to overturn the election. He just gets off on being able to get these people to do what he wants. I don't even think he expected them to acutally storm the Capitol. He has some media savvy and must have known that would be bad optics. This is NOT a defense of the Orange Turd .
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th January 2021, 12:52 PM	#57
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,573	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to? And other people (not naming any names) listened to another guy (not naming any names, but rhymes with "Trump") (USA Today) and came like he asked them to? Nah- that would make...sense; it actually adds up instead of cancelling itself out.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

8th January 2021, 01:34 PM	#59
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,370	Originally Posted by gnome Add to that some people that very much wanted to breach the barricades Add to that the several patriotic Americans who were there to try and install rootkits on secure PCs on behalf of foreign intelligence agencies.
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,370	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

8th January 2021, 09:45 PM	#62
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,118	I get the thinking went something like this... 1) Stage a revolution and take over the Capitol. 2) Wave flags and shout about how the Election was stolen. 3) Suddenly and somehow convince everyone that an investigation was needed. 4) Get Congress to halt the count and hold an investigation into the Election 5) Find the obvious and totally undebunkable evidence of fraud that no one has been able to show as of yet. 6) Have the "Real vote" restored showing that Trump won with 75% of the vote 7) Have Trump declared the winner and President for Life because the Democrats cheated and tried to stage a coup by stealing the election. 8) Have Joe and Hunter Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Kamalia Harris, and all the other Democrats arrested and tried for Treason for stealing the election. 9) Have the Democrat Party dissolved nationwide and make the Republican party the one and only allowed Party of the US.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

8th January 2021, 10:06 PM	#63
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,689	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf I get the thinking went something like this... 1) Stage a revolution and take over the Capitol. 2) Wave flags and shout about how the Election was stolen. 3) Suddenly and somehow convince everyone that an investigation was needed. 4) Get Congress to halt the count and hold an investigation into the Election 5) Find the obvious and totally undebunkable evidence of fraud that no one has been able to show as of yet. 6) Have the "Real vote" restored showing that Trump won with 75% of the vote 7) Have Trump declared the winner and President for Life because the Democrats cheated and tried to stage a coup by stealing the election. 8) Have Joe and Hunter Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Kamalia Harris, and all the other Democrats arrested and tried for Treason for stealing the election. 9) Have the Democrat Party dissolved nationwide and make the Republican party the one and only allowed Party of the US. That seems to be pretty much it.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

8th January 2021, 11:00 PM	#64
Ladewig I lost an avatar bet. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 28,006	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Again that's how we use to think back before the post-fact world. That question makes no sense in a post-fact world because it assume the election results are a "fact" that can't be changed. No. They didn't think they could overturn the election. But that didn't wasn't the point. They wanted to create an alternative narrative where what happened in the election was some kind of debatable opinion instead of an objective fact. I think you’re right. It is always dangerous to make conclusions about what Trump thinks, but I consider the possibility that he wanted to make it debatable and drag that out for as long as he could. I can easily see him (erroneously) thinking “if a winner cannot be identified then I get to stay president.”
	__________________ I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

9th January 2021, 01:00 AM	#65
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,517	I don't what they were expecting. The carrying of zip ties by some suggest some were looking to take prisoners. However, NOW there are many who are feeling betrayed by Trump after his concession speech and call for the insurrectionists to be prosecuted. Its all over Parler and other extreme right wing social media... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1784318.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ack-of-support
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

9th January 2021, 01:09 AM	#66
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,381	So... they latched their fortunes onto a cowardly grifter whose MO is to throw anyone under the bus to save his own ass, and now they're whining about the tire tracks on their skin? Trump was right about one thing, they really are special.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips Last edited by timhau; 9th January 2021 at 01:10 AM.

9th January 2021, 02:02 AM	#67
Solitaire Neoclinus blanchardi Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,487	Originally Posted by Olmstead 1. Get into the chambers while congressmen and congresswomen are still inside. 2. Shout Trump propaganda at them for hours. 3. ??? 4. Trump is re-elected. Number 3 might involve violence. Um, no, on step two, I think. I watched the 40 minute video of a guy who got close in on the action by saying, "I've got a knife." An three times using that line he got right up to the door. Maybe he didn't have a knife and was bluffing. Or, when the FBI catches him, they'll run his DNA through a cross check in the computer for some unsolved murders in his area and come up with some positive identifications. P. S. He didn't seem all that concerned when the woman breaking down the door got shot.
	__________________ Be very careful what you put in your head, because you will never get it out again. — Phineas Gage

9th January 2021, 06:08 AM	#68
Didactylos Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: East of the sun, west of the moon, first left turn past the trailer park... Posts: 50	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge That's an interesting comparison; what Trump actually said versus what people think they heard. His inability to speak in sentences is a talent that might very well save him from prosecution for incitement. The way he speaks is so incoherent you can't analyse it to precisely nail down any actionable quotation. I think this inability is one of the most important factors in the rise of Trump. When written down a Trump speech is a jumble of broken, half-finished (and often unfinishable) sentences seguing into other half-finished sentences, garnished with bombastic adjectives, assurances that this is the unvarnished truth, lots of repeating for emphasis and an anecdote about a big, teary eyed man who addresses him as "sir". You could call it stream-of-consciousness except that really oversells it, stream makes it sound like something graceful and organic. This is more like a whirlpool of half consciousness, or pinball of platitudes. But Trump has a clear, confident voice and for a lot of people that's enough when they already essentially believe he agrees with them. So they take those half finished sentences that sound like something they agree with (and ignore those they don't agree with, which is easy because none of the sentences really mean anything) and out of them in their head they construct a speech which says what they want to hear. ETA: My gist is that if Trump spoke in complete sentences it would be a lot more obvious how boring Trump is, how much he contradicts himself and how much of a swamp-critter he is.
	Last edited by Didactylos; 9th January 2021 at 06:45 AM.

9th January 2021, 06:32 AM	#70
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,410	Don't forget he tweeted while the mob were marching on the Capitol that Pence was supporting the vote and had betrayed everyone.

9th January 2021, 08:25 AM	#71
dmaker Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,684	Surely this must end with Trump behind bars. If the US is to save any face on the world stage, this has to end with Trump in prison. The US must show the world what happens to would be dictators. If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world?
	Last edited by dmaker; 9th January 2021 at 08:31 AM.

9th January 2021, 09:12 AM	#72
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,549	Originally Posted by dmaker If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world? Correct one. USA is laughingstock.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

9th January 2021, 09:33 AM	#73
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,015	Originally Posted by dmaker Surely this must end with Trump behind bars. If the US is to save any face on the world stage, this has to end with Trump in prison. The US must show the world what happens to would be dictators. If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world? I wonder if Mar-al-Lago's security is better than the Capitol's? What one angry mob can attempt so can another.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

9th January 2021, 09:50 AM	#74
Flo Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Haute-Savoie, France Posts: 3,122	Originally Posted by dmaker Surely this must end with Trump behind bars. If the US is to save any face on the world stage, this has to end with Trump in prison. The US must show the world what happens to would be dictators. If this ends with Trump spending his days golfing in sunny Florida on the taxpayers dime, and with federal protection, what message does that project to the world? The rest of the world lost any hope 4 years ago

9th January 2021, 09:56 AM	#75
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,425	Originally Posted by turingtest Well, according to Kevin Sorbo- -the fact that Antifa/BLM were visibly present at other events is why you should believe they were invisibly present for this one- you know they must have been there because they weren't. That's a knot in logic that, by design, cannot be unknotted. Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Maybe, just maybe, people listened to the Mayor of Washington and stayed home as she asked them to? Originally Posted by dudalb Or maybe they were just following Napoleon's advice about don't interfere when your enemy is destroying himself. It's far simpler than all that: They (we) had already won. Why take time away from home and work to counter a rally for a president who is on the way out? Who could have predicted that a president - even this one - would encourage his supporters (cult) to attack Congress and his own vice president? There are good reasons most people were shocked by this even despite the unprecedented behavior of the rapist-in-chief.

9th January 2021, 10:14 AM	#76
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,549	I don't know what they expected. I do know what actually happened later.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

9th January 2021, 10:16 AM	#77
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,689	I sincerely hope he has ruined his life. Unlike those like the guy who tased himself and died, merely ruining his family's lives.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

9th January 2021, 10:21 AM	#78
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,151	Originally Posted by Babbylonian It's far simpler than all that: They (we) had already won. Why take time away from home and work to counter a rally for a president who is on the way out? Who could have predicted that a president - even this one - would encourage his supporters (cult) to attack Congress and his own vice president? There are good reasons most people were shocked by this even despite the unprecedented behavior of the rapist-in-chief. Please you can’t call him “the rapist-in-chief’, as his lawyer - a M Cohen - said in 2015 “....And, of course, understand that by the very definition, you can’t rape your spouse. It is true, you cannot rape your spouse. And there’s very clear case law.” And I am sure you will like me have the utmost respect for the legal opinion of such a learned lawyer. I believe the correct title is “not-rape-rape-rapist-in-chief”.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 9th January 2021 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Sorry it was 2015 not 2016

9th January 2021, 10:23 AM	#79
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,381	Originally Posted by Mader Levap I don't know what they expected. I do know what actually happened later. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...yvq8tbba61.png Poor thing, did they take away his knitcap? It went so well with the poop-eating grin.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips