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2nd May 2012, 05:10 PM | #1 |
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Reasons To Vote For/Against Obama
People are trying to make various lists for the "what has he done for/against us" voters.
Pro-Obama:
Quote:
My problem with this list is that it doesn't qualify who is taking the action. It is all being attributed to Obama, but the President doesn't have direct influence over most of these. To be useful I would prefer showing that Obama actively called for the action and/or Romney would have opposed the action. The Anti-Obama list here has references for each item, and is slightly more organised. This one lists a lot of former lobbyists and top fundraisers that received positions in the administration. It also lists more executive actions. My problem with both lists is that they remove the context of congressional negations. |
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5th May 2012, 08:51 AM | #2 |
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Anti:
Hope and change are good. |
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5th May 2012, 09:20 AM | #3 |
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For me the foremost reason to vote for Obama would not be his accomplishments but the dismal state of his main opponent. Whenever I see Romney or pretty much anyone from the GOP cooking up word salads I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone.
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5th May 2012, 09:56 AM | #4 |
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I feel like Obama could have accomplished a lot more were it not for the unprecedented level of partisanship, such as requiring a filibuster-proof margin for every action, regardless of how trivial. If he wins a second term, the GOP (hopefully) won't feel the need to run against him for four years and maybe more can be accomplished. But if Romney is elected, expect the Democrats to repay the GOP with exactly the kind of stonewallling that they were subjected to, and presto, we are stuck in low gear for four more years.
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5th May 2012, 10:23 AM | #5 |
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When ever I get a bit frustrated that Obama isn't everything I want I think about what Tricky said regarding the partisanship and then I go HERE
Its actually an impressive list. He has my vote and I will be volunteering. |
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5th May 2012, 10:26 AM | #6 |
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From the link above.
Quote:
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5th May 2012, 10:40 AM | #7 |
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5th May 2012, 01:01 PM | #8 |
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5th May 2012, 01:29 PM | #9 |
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Half True:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-jobs-created/
And Pelosis claim that ""In the first year of the Obama administration, more jobs were created in the private sector than in the eight years of the Bush administration." Is Flat out False: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...bamas-first-y/ |
5th May 2012, 01:39 PM | #10 |
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It was HUGE in the stem cell community!
I see. Nit picking but Pelosi claimed 8 months while the website I quoted said all of 2010. Could be the same cherry picking though. What I really learned from your link is that he is a small government job creator. |
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5th May 2012, 02:58 PM | #11 |
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5th May 2012, 04:13 PM | #12 |
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Anti:
-Renewed the Bush tax cuts. -Renewed the PATRIOT Act. -Expanded the TSA. -Fast And Furious. -More raids on medical marijuana clinics than during the George W. Bush administration, which is a broken campaign promise. Nancy Pelosi recently blasted the Obama administration for this, for which I am grateful to her. -Opposition to gay marriage. -Unsustainable levels of debt. In 2008, Senator Obama criticized the Bush administration for running up $4 trillion in debt in eight years. In the last three years we've run up another $5 trillion. Before you tell me that the GOP is just as bad or worse, I have absolutely no intention of voting for Mitt Romney either. |
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5th May 2012, 04:58 PM | #13 |
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5th May 2012, 05:06 PM | #14 |
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Wrong. There was extensive communication between the White House and the Phoenix ATF office during that time.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html |
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5th May 2012, 05:13 PM | #15 |
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5th May 2012, 07:24 PM | #16 |
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5th May 2012, 09:05 PM | #17 |
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A while back I started a thread which, paraphrased, asked what, exactly each of the last 10 POTUS "had done". The very point was that this requires one to try to think out what he presided over, versus what he actually did himself either directly, or by championing.
Yes, you've asked a good question. |
5th May 2012, 09:59 PM | #18 |
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This tracks pretty well with my disappointment list, and with the letters I've sent him... I'd add to that a comment about the space program, however since I work there I'm reluctant to express my feelings in public. (Full disclaimer: This post, and all my posts, made with my own materials on my own time.)
I do have some positives, however: 1. Competence. Got a lot done considering how the Legislature is stacked against him. Least scandal-plagued administration since... hmm. Ike? Besides Fast 'n Furious, there ain't much. 2. Pleased with his foreign policy, including staying out of Libya, staying out of Syria, backing away from bombing Iran, etc. despite overwhelming pressure to go in guns hot 3. Pragmatic. For instance, everyone told me (and is STILL telling me) he'd come for my guns, but... he hasn't. The man knows how to pick his battles. I'd like to see solid proposals for the following: (a) Tax reform -- while we'll never see a true flat tax, the more recent "Buffett Rule" proposals are starting to creep in this direction. (b) Address the debt, including spending cuts. Start with the military. I'm not saying "gut it," but there's a lot of flat-out pork and outdated strategic thinking there. (c) Try to fix up health care some more -- don't just junk Obamacare, fix it. What passed is a weird compromise and it has some sharp edges. Is it Constitutional? Well, is universal health care a right, or a service? I say the former, under the 14th Amendment, but this philosophy has consequences that push us towards a single-payer model. (d) In the same vein take a firm and principled stand on civil rights, all civil rights, and that means no-buts equality for gays and women. Just do it. While we're at it let's incorporate the 2nd Amendment. Give me say two out of those four, and I could vote for him enthusiastically. Likewise, I'd invite Romney to do the same, but somehow I doubt he shares my opinions. |
5th May 2012, 11:29 PM | #19 | |||
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Well said, R.Mackey.
To be fair on the "anti" list, I don't think Obama ever said he was going to try to help get gay marriage passed. He's not personally in favor and said as much even back in 2008. What I expect from him on that part is to not get in the way when it comes time for the legislature or the judiciary to fix the current built-in prejudice. Of course, he could take a page from Cory Booker's (mayor of Newark, NJ) tome, and actually make a public and amazing statement of reality:
That took a lot of guts to say as an elected official. There needs to be more of that. |
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6th May 2012, 02:03 AM | #20 |
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I agree with almost everything you said except healthcare. I believe that the ultimate goal of the Healthcare bill should aim at increasing wellness and reducing healthcare cost, but not mandating universal healthcare. As much as I like the altruistic intent of universal healthcare it's dead in the water until the inflating cost of healthcare is handled. I do think that if universal healthcare were implemented now it must allow for Health Insurance providers to have more discretion for the sake of pragmatism, not altruism.
Also, I think that civil unions should be taken as a new standard and marriage as we know it become outmoded. Again, it's more pragmatic. I still like Obama and I actually like Mitt when he's not stroking the Republicans. I just think that it doesn't matter which one gets in office, it's Congress itself that needs serious fixing with more moderates and less fanaticism.
Originally Posted by ravdin
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6th May 2012, 03:16 AM | #21 |
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I find it remarkable that judicial appointments, probably the most lasting effect of any administration, has not been mentioned. If Romney is elected and gets one (or more) appointments to the Supreme Court, the conservative (corporate) wing will have control for all of our lifetimes (unless you're posting here and are three years old).
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6th May 2012, 09:54 AM | #22 |
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6th May 2012, 10:19 AM | #23 |
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So the free availability of guns causes murders. Is that the official conservative position now? The IRA ain't gonna like this.
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6th May 2012, 10:37 AM | #24 |
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6th May 2012, 10:40 AM | #25 |
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For: He's not a Republicker.
Against: Nothing that counts even the most infinitissimal amount as the For. |
6th May 2012, 11:36 AM | #26 |
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6th May 2012, 01:37 PM | #27 |
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6th May 2012, 01:41 PM | #28 |
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6th May 2012, 02:51 PM | #29 |
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Oopsie. I meant NRA of course. National Recovery Act.
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6th May 2012, 04:44 PM | #30 |
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I can't really disagree with you -- there are two ways to look at it, both valid.
Reducing healthcare costs is a tough one, partly because of where those dollars are going. About half of healthcare money is spent in the last six months of a patient's life, and a sizable chunk of the rest goes to the uninsured crashing emergency rooms and being inefficiently reimbursed. Both of these are things that could be significantly reduced by universal health care in my opinion. But on the other hand, there are going to be some procedures and options that are such long-shots that, if everyone gets access, could theoretically wind up costing far more. (Cue the "Death Panels" nonsense.) There has to be some sort of prudent limit or it won't work. It's a tricky problem, which is part of the reason we wound up with such a strange compromise so far... --- Uh... ?que? Can you explain, please? |
6th May 2012, 04:58 PM | #31 |
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6th May 2012, 05:51 PM | #32 |
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6th May 2012, 08:05 PM | #33 |
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I think everybody agrees that the operation was a complete failure. I don't think that's being disputed. No doubt the notion of "gunwalking" is deeply flawed. According to wiki 200 deaths were linked to guns walked by the ATF (though i'm not sure the availability of the guns led to any actual increase in violence).
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7th May 2012, 04:37 AM | #34 |
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7th May 2012, 05:09 AM | #35 |
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In other words, "everybody knows he's in favor of it and is just saying he's not so he can get elected."
When fed to criminals, yes. The question is whether it is worth it to authorize government to restrict availability in general. It's nice to think we've perfected humanity and that overbearing government will never get out of control again for ever and ever. |
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7th May 2012, 07:01 AM | #36 |
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Chalk one up to Tricky: Turning murder into political spin.
Try again please. This time discuss the requirement for strict NCIS background federal level check for US Citizens buying firearms and the active, encouraged (or required waiving) of that check (By ATF personnel, talking with gun store owners) for gun runners to Mexican drug cartels. Better: Just don't. This is an indefensible issue and a complete embarrassment to the Obama administration and the country. Seriously. |
7th May 2012, 07:07 AM | #37 |
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Respectfully, your hope for solid proposals are not positives. As for your positives, curiously, they are not positives either.
1. The most civilian dead as a result of government policy is the "least scandal plagued?" 2. There was NO overwhelming pressure to go into Libya, Syria, or Iran, and is not to this day. 3. Pragmatic? The Admin has publicly and repeatedly stated they intend to control guns, and the Bamster was made to back off from a restriction he attempted to put through executive order. So basically, you like the guy, but you don't have any positives? As for space, you can certainly chalk a bit "Not For Space" mark up on the Bamster. He's destroyed the US program as we knew it, and the planned forward thinking directions. Namely, the shuttle replacement man rated booster systems. If as is possible, private companies pick up the slack, Bamster doesn't get the credit for that - the private companies that risked their capital do. You don't need to respond to this and yes you are correct to be concerned about those bastards reading your email on or off work. |
7th May 2012, 07:26 AM | #38 |
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7th May 2012, 09:41 AM | #39 |
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I think we can trust him on the numbers.
Of course then there's the Mexican police helicopter shot down by a 50 caliber gun sold to the gangs through the gun runner program. Thousands of assault rifles including the 50 cals cannot help but change the nature of a conflict. Areas of the border on our side are now completely unsafe due to cartel members literally commanding "the high ground", positioned on mountains. Border agents are not equipped to cope with para military operational tactics, neither is the DEA, or the ATF. This is the direct result of Obama's administration policy, mind you. Focusing back on the OP and Mackey's assertion: I do have some positives, however: 1. Competence. Got a lot done considering how the Legislature is stacked against him. Least scandal-plagued administration since... hmm. Ike? Besides Fast 'n Furious, there ain't much. The highest civilian death count prior to the Bamster was Clinton, 41 dead at the Koresh/Waco fiasco. What's that jumped to under the Bamster? Competence? Least scandal-plagued admin? It's truly honest sarcasm when I quip: "Hey, don't worry about it. They're just Mexicans. Party ON!" (and keep up the bigoted, prejudiced, and rude attacks on Republicans, please. It continues to show what kind of people we have in ideological Democrats today). |
7th May 2012, 10:07 AM | #40 |
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