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Old 18th March 2017, 06:11 AM   #1201
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is that real?
Absolutely! I couldn't quite believe what I saw so fortunately I could rewind (and pause) the DVR. By the next cycle it had been corrected.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:59 AM   #1202
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Turns out that Andrew Napolitano, who Trump got the accusation that Obama used British intelligence to spy on him from, in turn got that from a Russia Today interview with the guy who originated the false rumor of the existence of the Michelle Obama "whitey tape".
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Old 18th March 2017, 07:13 AM   #1203
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
GCHQ has claimed that the USA didn't spy on Merkel?
I was pretending to speak on behalf of GCHQ in reference to GCHQ. What the US does is its own responsibility.
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Old 18th March 2017, 07:42 AM   #1204
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In summary:

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Old 18th March 2017, 08:12 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
In summary:

....and yet it matters not one jot.

Trump still enjoys the overwhelming support of the GOP and his personal job approval rating is close to 90% among GOP supporters.
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Old 18th March 2017, 08:36 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Turns out that Andrew Napolitano, who Trump got the accusation that Obama used British intelligence to spy on him from, in turn got that from a Russia Today interview with the guy who originated the false rumor of the existence of the Michelle Obama "whitey tape".
LOL. We Americans are now governed by the Keystone Cops
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Old 18th March 2017, 08:46 AM   #1207
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
In summary:

It's slightly more than that, it wasn't unsourced but came from a known hoaxer:

Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Turns out that Andrew Napolitano, who Trump got the accusation that Obama used British intelligence to spy on him from, in turn got that from a Russia Today interview with the guy who originated the false rumor of the existence of the Michelle Obama "whitey tape".
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Old 18th March 2017, 10:10 AM   #1208
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
LOL. We Americans are now governed by the Keystone Cops
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Old 18th March 2017, 10:15 AM   #1209
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
LOL. We Americans are now governed by the Keystone Cops
More like...

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Old 18th March 2017, 10:21 AM   #1210
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Each side, he said, was prohibited from asking the other partner to carry out acts that they were prohibited from doing.

He also said the huge risks to the UK in carrying out such an act would completely outweigh any benefits.

"Of course they wouldn't do it. It would be epically stupid," he told me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39312176
A point which perhaps should be made more often. These various activities imagined by Trump to have happened would be unutterably stupid, and obviously so to any functioning intellect.
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Old 18th March 2017, 10:23 AM   #1211
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It's slightly more than that, it wasn't unsourced but came from a known hoaxer:
Via a tremendously excellent legal mind, we're given to understand.
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Old 18th March 2017, 10:56 AM   #1212
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....and yet it matters not one jot.

Trump still enjoys the overwhelming support of the GOP and his personal job approval rating is close to 90% among GOP supporters.
His supporters matter not a jot until November 2018. It's Congress and the machinery of government that matter now, and Trump's antics are not gaining him any ground there. Never Trump badges are being dug out and polished all over Washington DC, mark my words. Their first instincts have been proven right : if anything Trump in practice is turning out to be beyond their worst expectations.

It's only been two months, but it's clear there will only be months more of the same, mounting to years, potentially four of them. Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?
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Old 18th March 2017, 11:14 AM   #1213
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....and yet it matters not one jot.

Trump still enjoys the overwhelming support of the GOP and his personal job approval rating is close to 90% among GOP supporters.
Although it does appear that way, I also can imagine a snowball effect - as it hurtles down a slope it gradually accumulates more layers until some kind of critical mass is reached and nullifies the benefit of the doubt.

He reacted very quickly when Laura Ingraham criticized the GOP health-care bill, tweeting about phases 2 and 3. Will people buy these claims forever? The wiretapping claim and subsequent obfuscation are annoying quite a few conservatives. Character assassination seems to be the main tool in his kit.

I'm waiting for, "Barack Obama did not tap my phone. Period."
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Old 18th March 2017, 11:25 AM   #1214
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Although it does appear that way, I also can imagine a snowball effect - as it hurtles down a slope it gradually accumulates more layers until some kind of critical mass is reached and nullifies the benefit of the doubt.

He reacted very quickly when Laura Ingraham criticized the GOP health-care bill, tweeting about phases 2 and 3. Will people buy these claims forever? The wiretapping claim and subsequent obfuscation are annoying quite a few conservatives. Character assassination seems to be the main tool in his kit.

I'm waiting for, "Barack Obama did not tap my phone. Period."
And like birtherism he will then claim credit for the investigation
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Old 18th March 2017, 11:37 AM   #1215
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Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
It hasn't really lit up the news, but there seems to be a lack of direction and manpower at the Dept. Of State. Trump simply hasn't nominated a large number of deputies at State.
Look at his proposed cuts; see how much he has marginalized Rex Tillerson. He doesn't really want a powerful State Department, and the unfilled positions are a good thing - attrition takes care of some of the cuts.

Diplomacy bores him. The optics with Angela Merkel were horrible.

Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
Maybe it's a department that is a bit bloated, but still, there needs to be deputies directing the overseas personnel who are doing the day to day grind of working to support American interests around the world.
Why is that necessary?

Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
I may be wrong, but I imagine there are a lot of State workers wondering what the hell direction things are going.
It's pretty clear where things are going, IMO.

Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
I don't have any faith that Trump has many clues about what's going on around the world. Remember his idiotic statement about a one-state or two-state policy in regards to Israel and Palestine?
That is fine with his voters. Many Americans seem barely convinced that the rest of the world exists.

Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
What is going to happen when it's time to go to our allies and build a coalition for something?
We don't need no stinkin' coalitions.

Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
Not even two months, and he is probably regarded as a buffoon by many in countries that have been America's allies for decades.
His fans don't care.

Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
The president is an ass, and he is going to make America less safe.
IMO, he already has.
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Old 18th March 2017, 11:40 AM   #1216
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This popped up on my facebook:

Trump is watching Fox News
Peddling info from Fox News.
Tweeting about stories he heard on Fox News.
Seemingly passing along what he heard in passing - and not getting the full details - on Fox News.
Promoting that Fox News is fair.
Claiming outlets that speak disparingly about him are fake.
He's working with former Fox staffers.
And now he is dealing with an international incident which it seems he heard in passing - and not getting the full details - by a commentator on Fox News.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:31 PM   #1217
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Originally Posted by seayakin View Post
I would add, why would any allies believe what Trump has to say when he has critical intelligence.

Because of his impeccable sources. Breitbart, Fox News, Alex Jones ...

... Oh yeah. And the Russians.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:59 PM   #1218
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Look at his proposed cuts; see how much he has marginalized Rex Tillerson. He doesn't really want a powerful State Department, and the unfilled positions are a good thing - attrition takes care of some of the cuts.

Diplomacy bores him. The optics with Angela Merkel were horrible.

Why is that necessary?

It's pretty clear where things are going, IMO.

That is fine with his voters. Many Americans seem barely convinced that the rest of the world exists.

We don't need no stinkin' coalitions.

His fans don't care.

IMO, he already has.
Trump doesn't understand the purpose of the state department. Just as he doesn't understand the roles of the other branches of the executive branch.

He doesn't have the first clue how the government works, or what it all does.
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Old 18th March 2017, 07:29 PM   #1219
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
The mind boggles.

Come on, this can't go on for long.

Can it???
If you recognize he has a pathologic personality disorder the answer is yes, yes it can.
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Old 18th March 2017, 08:26 PM   #1220
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Hell yeah. Look at the guy on the right : he's been the UK's heir apparent for 65 years and we've still got more cred left than the US.
And that's despite talking to plants and believing in homeopathy...
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Old 19th March 2017, 03:51 PM   #1221
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....and yet it matters not one jot.

Trump still enjoys the overwhelming support of the GOP and his personal job approval rating is close to 90% among GOP supporters.
Because party over nation has become the norm at the GOP.
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Old 19th March 2017, 04:47 PM   #1222
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The claim that GCHQ carried out surveillance on Donald Trump during the election campaign is "arrant nonsense", Rick Ledgett, the number two at the US National Security Agency (NSA) has told the BBC in an exclusive interview.

A commentator on Fox News had claimed that GCHQ had carried out the activity on America's behalf, but Mr Ledgett said the claim showed "a complete lack of understanding in how the relationship works".

Each side, he said, was prohibited from asking the other partner to carry out acts that they were prohibited from doing.

He also said the huge risks to the UK in carrying out such an act would completely outweigh any benefits.

"Of course they wouldn't do it. It would be epically stupid," he told me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39312176
To be fair to the accusation though, it's known that the NSA and GCHQ do share surveillance that is illegal for the other to perform themselves. I presume that's why he specifically denies asking for it.
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Old 19th March 2017, 05:10 PM   #1223
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
To be fair to the accusation though, it's known that the NSA and GCHQ do share surveillance that is illegal for the other to perform themselves. I presume that's why he specifically denies asking for it.

Illegal, or unavailable?

I did hear that the Five Eyes agreement prohibits asking another for services illegal to carry out on ones own citizens. Just as a blanket ban.

Is that what you mean? They've said categorically that didn't happen, wasn't requested.

"Unavailable" could be all sorts of other things though... it's why the alliance exists, not all five have equal access to all areas of interest.
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Old 19th March 2017, 05:53 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Illegal, or unavailable?

I did hear that the Five Eyes agreement prohibits asking another for services illegal to carry out on ones own citizens. Just as a blanket ban.

Is that what you mean? They've said categorically that didn't happen, wasn't requested.

"Unavailable" could be all sorts of other things though... it's why the alliance exists, not all five have equal access to all areas of interest.
Illegal.

[ETA] Also this, a little more speculative but also quite plausible.

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Old 19th March 2017, 06:21 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post

Your article cited is from Feb., 2015, and makes a point of stating that the GCHQ's actions were deemed to be legal after (it appears) the prior December. Nor was it a problem with the act of data sharing itself, but simply how much of the process had been made transparent to the public.

So not very relevant to this discussion.
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Old 19th March 2017, 06:35 PM   #1226
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Obama ended it in mid-2013.
When he got caught.
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Old 20th March 2017, 01:43 PM   #1227
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Turns out that Andrew Napolitano, who Trump got the accusation that Obama used British intelligence to spy on him from, in turn got that from a Russia Today interview with the guy who originated the false rumor of the existence of the Michelle Obama "whitey tape".
Ugh, that stupid rumor...


Makes sense I guess.
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Old 20th March 2017, 05:41 PM   #1228
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
When he got caught.
Thanks, Obama.
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:02 PM   #1229
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
When he got caught.

Did he get caught? Or did he just find out exactly what was going on and end it?
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:01 PM   #1230
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Did he get caught? Or did he just find out exactly what was going on and end it?

Uhhh... Obama defended it.

I'm a godless liberal and have a positive opinion of Obama, but he was absolutely not a defender of the citizens on this particular topic.
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:34 AM   #1231
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Uhhh... Obama defended it.

I'm a godless liberal and have a positive opinion of Obama, but he was absolutely not a defender of the citizens on this particular topic.
Is Merkel a citizen?
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Old 21st March 2017, 03:26 AM   #1232
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Quote:
People close to the president say Mr. Trump’s Twitter torrent had less to do with fact, strategy or tactic than a sense of persecution bordering on faith: He simply believes that he was bugged in some way, by someone, and that evidence will soon appear to back him up.

Plus he just likes to mix it up. He fired off his ill-fated Saturday tweet complaining of “tapps” of his phones after railing to aides about how poorly Attorney General Jeff Sessions had responded to reports that he had surreptitiously communicated with the Russians, the way Mr. Trump’s former National Security Council adviser, Michael T. Flynn, did.

The president, people close to him have said over the last several weeks, has become increasingly frustrated at his inability to control the narrative of his action-packed presidency, after being able to dominate the political discourse or divert criticism by launching one of his signature Twitter attacks.

“I think that maybe I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Twitter,” Mr. Trump told a sympathetic interviewer, Tucker Carlson of Fox News, last week.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/u...tap-comey.html

Trump really is his own worst enemy.
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Old 21st March 2017, 07:52 AM   #1233
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Andrew Napolitano, long established as a raving, fact-free conspiracy theorist, has reportedly been canned by Fox News.

I'm all broken up over this.
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Old 21st March 2017, 08:09 AM   #1234
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Andrew Napolitano, long established as a raving, fact-free conspiracy theorist, has reportedly been canned by Fox News.

I'm all broken up over this.
It's a tad indecorous, but I'd love to hear the lopped head as it hits the basket. So to speak.
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Old 21st March 2017, 08:12 AM   #1235
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Andrew Napolitano, long established as a raving, fact-free conspiracy theorist, has reportedly been canned by Fox News.

I'm all broken up over this.
He had to be canned. It was his rumor mongering that the president parroted that made the president look bad. Clearly, that is unacceptable. Have to blame the moron who started the rumor, not the moron who passed it on mindlessly, despite having resources available that would know better
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Old 21st March 2017, 08:18 AM   #1236
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Andrew Napolitano, long established as a raving, fact-free conspiracy theorist, has reportedly been canned by Fox News.

I'm all broken up over this.
Are they made that he took the network directive to be to Trump what Russia Today is to Putin too literally?
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Old 21st March 2017, 09:12 AM   #1237
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
He had to be canned. It was his rumor mongering that the president parroted that made the president look bad. Clearly, that is unacceptable. Have to blame the moron who started the rumor, not the moron who passed it on mindlessly, despite having resources available that would know better
It's not Trump's fault, society is to blame.
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Old 21st March 2017, 11:23 AM   #1238
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Trump really is his own worst enemy.
Go Trump!
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Old 21st March 2017, 12:27 PM   #1239
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
He had to be canned. It was his rumor mongering that the president parroted that made the president look bad. Clearly, that is unacceptable. Have to blame the moron who started the rumor, not the moron who passed it on mindlessly, despite having resources available that would know better
I suspect this is about Napolitano making Fox News look bad.
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Old 21st March 2017, 01:00 PM   #1240
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I suspect this is about Napolitano making Fox News look bad.
Can't just blame him. Making Fox news look bad is a team effort.
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