ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Closed Thread
Old 23rd February 2017, 04:49 PM   #241
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 16,832
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The feds are going to clamp down on Pot:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-spicer-235318

That is going to work well.
What puzzles me is why is Trump going there? He has nothing to gain politically from it, and will end any hope he had of winning over a lot of Libertarians. DUmb move.

The private prison industry must be whining for their cut of the pie.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 04:59 PM   #242
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 16,832
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Well, when the other option told people that she was going to close down their jobs, what do you expect?

Sure, she said she'd work to bring in other options... but she led with intending them to lose their jobs.

<snip>

Can you provide links which document when and where she actually said that?

'Cause it sounds a lot more like the sort of thing Republicans were claiming she said. Not anything she actually did say.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 05:13 PM   #243
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,145
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...out-coal-jobs/
Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton
So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.
In context.
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 05:50 PM   #244
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,094
Not concerning at all.

Quote:
The FBI rejected a recent White House request to publicly knock down media reports about communications between Donald Trump's associates and Russians known to US intelligence during the 2016 presidential campaign, multiple US officials briefed on the matter tell CNN.

White House officials had sought the help of the bureau and other agencies investigating the Russia matter to say that the reports were wrong and that there had been no contacts, the officials said. The reports of the contacts were first published by The New York Times and CNN on February 14.

The direct communications between the White House and the FBI were unusual because of decade-old restrictions on such contacts. Such a request from the White House is a violation of procedures that limit communications with the FBI on pending investigations.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 06:04 PM   #245
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,621
Man, it took Nixon four years to reach the point that Trump had in a month....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 06:05 PM   #246
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,094
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
That's the first time I've heard it stated as the Christian thing to elect an incompetent boob to office. I know a lot of Christian teachers, for instance, who didn't want her. Can you explain how that was a demonstration of Christian principles?

Until such time as you can, it sure looks like she was voted in without principles, to me.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 06:09 PM   #247
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 60,315
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Love it.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 06:21 PM   #248
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,724
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What puzzles me is why is Trump going there? He has nothing to gain politically from it, and will end any hope he had of winning over a lot of Libertarians. DUmb move.
If the red states can't have recreational pot, damn it, no one else should either!
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 07:01 PM   #249
Molinaro
Illuminator
 
Molinaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,929
Originally Posted by cnn.com
Other Trump administration sources tell CNN that this is an assignment that has caused concern among some administration intelligence officials, who see the White House charge as the politicization of intelligence -- the notion of a conclusion in search of evidence to support it after being blocked by the courts. Still others in the intelligence community disagree with the conclusion and are finding their work disparaged by their own department.
From this article on cnn.com.

White House vs the intelligence community seems like it will be a continuing theme of this administration.
__________________
100% Cannuck!
Molinaro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 07:19 PM   #250
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,830
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
There are 'christians' on this forum that believe thus.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 07:42 PM   #251
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,119
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The feds are going to clamp down on Pot:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-spicer-235318

That is going to work well.
What puzzles me is why is Trump going there? He has nothing to gain politically from it, and will end any hope he had of winning over a lot of Libertarians. DUmb move.
As the owner of a weed farm in WA state, I've been whistling past the graveyard ever since election day. The graveyard just whistled back.

I'm guessing that Sessions is the driver here.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
SCOTUS death watch
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 07:50 PM   #252
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
That monster!
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 07:53 PM   #253
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,827
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Hmm. I'm a little disappointing to see this approach from you. I understand it, but it's still disappointing. It's essentially right back to the starting point, the view that anyone who didn't vote for Clinton is a horrible person and/or stupid. It's completely discounting that some people did not believe that Clinton represented their interests, or that her policies would provide support for them. It ignores that a large chunk of people felt disenfranchised by per positions, and that their concerns were not important to her.

It dismisses the concept that different people have different value rankings, and that what is most important to you may not be what is most important to someone else. That doesn't mean it's unimportant, just not as important as something else.

I'm sure there are at least some people who believe that Trump cares about them, and I also believe that they are incorrect in that assumption. But I also feel that there are some people who feel that Clinton cares less about them than Trump does.

Woah, no, it does not. One need not be stupid to fall for a con. One need not be a bad person to fall for a con. Sure, those things can certainly be leveraged to make it easier on the con artist, but they aren't needed. It's one of the first things most critical thinking and anti-woo teachers like to hit on; believes in woo are not necessarily stupid. Thinking of them as simply stupid is far less effective and interesting than looking at how they were actually fooled.

Now, the reasons to be fooled by Trump certainly tend away from complimentary for those who buy into his brand of woowoo thinking, but the observation that they've been conned does not mean one is calling them stupid or evil.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 08:21 PM   #254
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,724
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
As the owner of a weed farm in WA state, I've been whistling past the graveyard ever since election day. The graveyard just whistled back.

I'm guessing that Sessions is the driver here.
Trump doesn't understand that under federal law there is no distinction between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana.

I wouldn't worry too much, *boomers want their weed* is about as bipartisan as it gets. If you're transporting it across state lines that's different.

ETA: For now.

Last edited by Minoosh; 23rd February 2017 at 08:22 PM.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2017, 08:25 PM   #255
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,612
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Woah, no, it does not. One need not be stupid to fall for a con. One need not be a bad person to fall for a con. Sure, those things can certainly be leveraged to make it easier on the con artist, but they aren't needed. It's one of the first things most critical thinking and anti-woo teachers like to hit on; believes in woo are not necessarily stupid. Thinking of them as simply stupid is far less effective and interesting than looking at how they were actually fooled.

Now, the reasons to be fooled by Trump certainly tend away from complimentary for those who buy into his brand of woowoo thinking, but the observation that they've been conned does not mean one is calling them stupid or evil.
Thank you, you put it better than I did.
phiwum is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 12:00 AM   #256
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 76,312
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Unfortunately sending mixed, contradictory and vague signals will also erode other countries trust in America. It will heighten international tensions because others may not be certain of what Americas leaders really want.

Trump apparently thinks this kind of uncertainty, tension and brinkmanship is a good thing. It's also a recipe for needless conflict and war.
Also weakens your negotiation stance. If people can't trust you to keep to your agreements you have very little to negotiate with apart from threats.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 12:05 AM   #257
The Great Zaganza
Graduate Poster
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,883
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Also weakens your negotiation stance. If people can't trust you to keep to your agreements you have very little to negotiate with apart from threats.
Ironically, it says as much in The Art of the Deal.
But then, Trump didn't write it, so it's too much to ask for him to read it.
__________________
"at this point, Trump is waist-deep in dead canaries"
- John Oliver
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 12:37 AM   #258
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 21,052
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
s'OK, don't want them furriners over here anyway and teh Trump-led job boom will mean that domestic demand will more than plug any gap.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 12:40 AM   #259
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 21,052
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Unfortunately sending mixed, contradictory and vague signals will also erode other countries trust in America. It will heighten international tensions because others may not be certain of what Americas leaders really want.
True, but Trump doesn't care and the core of the GOP don't care because they are now pursuing an isolationist agenda. The rest of the world (except perhaps Israel) can go hang...

Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Trump apparently thinks this kind of uncertainty, tension and brinkmanship is a good thing. It's also a recipe for needless conflict and war.
True, but Trump and the GOP don't care so they can keep it up indefinitely..
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 01:47 AM   #260
Bob001
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,858
The admiral who killed Bin Laden calls Trump's ant-media campaign the “greatest threat to democracy” he’s ever seen.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...=.e684c6e931ff
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 01:52 AM   #261
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,843
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Well, when the other option told people that she was going to close down their jobs, what do you expect?

Sure, she said she'd work to bring in other options... but she led with intending them to lose their jobs.

South park really naild it: it was a choice between a giant douche and **** sandwich. I'm not sure which is which though.


From afar, it was always pretty obvious that Donald was full of **** and, and this is important, he wasn't going to be able to/want to do all that he claimed.

Clinton's mistake was, apparently, not being as full of utter ******** as Donald.

I honestly find your view on this baffling. The current president is an international embarrassment and a potential danger to the whole world. This much was obvious to anyone watching the campaign.

It utterly escapes me how you can possibly draw any equivalence between the two.
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.

Last edited by 3point14; 24th February 2017 at 01:56 AM.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 01:58 AM   #262
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,843
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
To you and I? Probably not. But the determination of whether it was an even choice is heavily influenced by the rankings within one's value set. I don't assume that everyone has the same value set as I do. And I can understand, and even empathize, with value sets where Clinton's positions and campaign lost out to Trump's. For someone in the mid-west, with depressing job prospects, who see their way of life as being threatened... Trump's perspective is likely to rank higher in their value sets than Clinton's. I may not agree with that ranking based on my own experiences and perspective, but that doesn't invalidate it.

It doesn't make another person's value ranking wrong.

It does if their ranking is based on easily identifiable lies.
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 03:52 AM   #263
TofuFighter
Graduate Poster
 
TofuFighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
As the owner of a weed farm in WA state, I've been whistling past the graveyard ever since election day. The graveyard just whistled back.

I'm guessing that Sessions is the driver here.
Please find my friend request in your inbox asap. ignore these other plebs.
__________________
"It's dots all the way down"
TofuFighter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 04:00 AM   #264
TofuFighter
Graduate Poster
 
TofuFighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
How long can this work: Trump making stupid statements and his cabinet members or VP contradicting him?
Adding to this...

Quote:
“I think they’re grand champions at manipulation of currency. So I haven’t held back. We’ll see what happens,” Trump said.

The president’s comments were reported just hours after the incoming treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, made apparently contradictory remarks signalling that the White House had no immediate plans to label China a currency manipulator – something Trump had pledged to do on his first day in office.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...y-manipulation
__________________
"It's dots all the way down"
TofuFighter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 04:04 AM   #265
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,367
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
As with many other issues, Trumpublicans want it to be left up to the states, except when they don't.
Yes, the party of states rights and limited government interferrence strikes again
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 04:46 AM   #266
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 21,052
Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
IMO it's a perfect position. Trump's tweets keep his supporters happy and then the "grown ups" get on with policy. It only becomes an issue if his supporters notice, Trump becomes unhappy with the situation or international leaders actually take Trump seriously.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 05:24 AM   #267
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,808
It can also become an issue when Trump's silly rethoric clashes with the reality on the ground.

Example:
Quote:
House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Mike McCaul tempered his support of President Donald Trump's plan to build a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico, stressing the need for a multifaceted approach to border security.

"I don't think we need a 2,000-mile wall down there," McCaul, fresh off a tour of the Rio Grande Valley portion of the boundary with House Speaker Paul Ryan, told the PBS "NewsHour" on Thursday.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...er-wall-235327
I know we live in the era of "alternative facts", but still, many of the Trump voters will notice if there is no wall, if the coal mines don't reopen, if their health coverage deteriorates, ...

His diehard supporters will of course never assign blame to him, but I doubt that is enough of a base.
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

Last edited by Firestone; 24th February 2017 at 05:29 AM.
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 05:26 AM   #268
Regnad Kcin
Philosopher
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,302
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Bannon and reality are not well acquainted.
I've been coming around to the belief that Bannon would felate himself if he could.
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 05:35 AM   #269
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,703
Quote:
A White House adviser made an angry phone call and threatened a lawsuit over a critic's tweets about him, Newsweek reported Thursday.

The Newsweek story includes a recording of the lengthy phone call Gorka made after counterterrorism expert Michael S. Smith II questioned Gorka's qualifications to be a national security adviser.

Gorka, whose experience and views on Islam have come under recent fire, phoned Smith Tuesday, asking to know “why this vitriol” was coming from him.

Gorka repeatedly expressed confusion as to why Smith would attack him, emphasizing the fact that they have never met in person.

“I look at your Twitter feed once or twice a day, and it’s half a dozen tweets about me, and I’ve never even met you,” Gorka said.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...s-legal-action

It's almost as if people don't like it when far-right islamophobic crackpots manage to sneak into posts where they could cause major damage to their country. It shouldn't be surprising that people expect advisers to a country's highest leader to be reasonable people, not political extremists and ideologues.

Besides why doesn't Trump fire his ass and employ an American instead? Does Trump hate Americans?
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 05:38 AM   #270
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,066
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
This drifted some... It seems to have become very specific when it started broad. Just to lay out where I'm coming from for easy reference:








After this, you're asking for specific defense of a specific person, about whom I know nothing, and have already admitted knowing nothing. My ignorance doesn't mean that principles don't exist. And the case of one single person doesn't make my larger point invalid.

You seem to be leading up to a position wherein republicans have no principles, in your view. If that's not your intention, please clarify for me.
To answer your last point first, you have shown a tendency to view any criticism of any specific Republican or specific group of Republicans as an attack on "half the country". This appears to be happening to you again. I can assure you that what you are reading into my posts is not actually there.

As for the Betsy Devos thing, voters themselves did not vote her in, Republicans in Congress did. By criticizing those who voted her in, and questioning what principles they follow, I am criticizing a specific group. The same group I have been criticizing during our entire exchange. You brought up Democratic voters (not in Congress) refusing to vote for Democratic Congress people, so I commented on how short-sighted it is to allow the absolute worst (for one's own value system) candidate to win because the person much more closely aligned to your value system (the "good" one from your perspective) was not perfect.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 05:42 AM   #271
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,066
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
From afar, it was always pretty obvious that Donald was full of **** and, and this is important, he wasn't going to be able to/want to do all that he claimed.

Clinton's mistake was, apparently, not being as full of utter ******** as Donald.

I honestly find your view on this baffling. The current president is an international embarrassment and a potential danger to the whole world. This much was obvious to anyone watching the campaign.

It utterly escapes me how you can possibly draw any equivalence between the two.
A significant amount of voters appeared quite happy to believe the absolute worst spin or claim about Clinton, while always giving Trump the most charitable interpretation. It's what allows Trump to sell his con, even now.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 05:50 AM   #272
TofuFighter
Graduate Poster
 
TofuFighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I've been coming around to the belief that Bannon would felate himself if he could.
*deleted* I'll wait for someone to ninja my comment.
__________________
"It's dots all the way down"
TofuFighter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 06:23 AM   #273
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,094
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The feds are going to clamp down on Pot:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-spicer-235318

That is going to work well.
What puzzles me is why is Trump going there? He has nothing to gain politically from it, and will end any hope he had of winning over a lot of Libertarians. DUmb move.
It's be better if Jeff Sessions was obsessed with this instead.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 06:53 AM   #274
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 60,315
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO it's a perfect position. Trump's tweets keep his supporters happy and then the "grown ups" get on with policy. It only becomes an issue if his supporters notice, Trump becomes unhappy with the situation or international leaders actually take Trump seriously.
The problem with this assessment is there are two classes of grown-ups in this mix: people like Pence and Tillerson who are out there in the world contradicting Trump, and the Bannon-Priebus duo that are pulling Trump's strings in the most frightening way:
Asking the FBI to drop the Russia investigation, asking the CIA to cough up evidence supporting the Muslim ban, dismantling the EPA, and whatever else is in the 'deconstruction of the administration' plan.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 07:03 AM   #275
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,843
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO it's a perfect position. Trump's tweets keep his supporters happy and then the "grown ups" get on with policy. It only becomes an issue if his supporters notice, Trump becomes unhappy with the situation or international leaders actually take Trump seriously.
This came up in another thread, I think:


“The President of the Universe holds no real power. His sole purpose is to take attention away from where the power truly exists...”

DNA
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 07:37 AM   #276
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 21,052
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
I know we live in the era of "alternative facts", but still, many of the Trump voters will notice if there is no wall, if the coal mines don't reopen, if their health coverage deteriorates, ...

His diehard supporters will of course never assign blame to him, but I doubt that is enough of a base.
Don't underestimate people's willingness to have their opinions supported. Any bit of wall built will be hailed as a huge success, a single coal mine producing a single piece of coal will be hailed as the renaissance of the mining industry and I'm sure that the GOP will be able to give the people some kind of shell game that gives the impression that their healthcare improved (for example, premiums could drop - it doesn't matter if the coverage they provide is essentially worthless, a drop in premiums will be enough to persuade a lot of people that the ACA replacement is a resounding success).

And of course any failures will be blamed on Hillary, Obama, Democratic Party partisanship, foreigners and so on.... And that'll be good enough for close to 50% of the US electorate
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 07:41 AM   #277
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 16,188
Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I think this is in line with my comment yesterday. When Trump accuses China of being "grand champions of currency manipulation" he is not actually saying that he thinks China is officially "currency manipulator" in the official sense. "Currency manipulator" has a specific meaning in economics, and he isn't using it that way.

He just says it because it sounds good, not because he actually means anything by it.
__________________
I have a permanent room at the Home for the Chronically Groovy - Floyd from the Muppets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 07:43 AM   #278
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 21,052
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
This came up in another thread, I think:


“The President of the Universe holds no real power. His sole purpose is to take attention away from where the power truly exists...”

DNA
Unlike Zaphod, Trump believes that he wields real power.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 08:11 AM   #279
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 16,448
Speech at CPAC beginning in a few minutes. Wish I had my Bingo card. How long until he says "We won!", "fake news", or any of his catch phrases.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 24th February 2017, 08:25 AM   #280
newyorkguy
Philosopher
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 8,874
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Also weakens your negotiation stance. If people can't trust you to keep to your agreements you have very little to negotiate with apart from threats.
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Ironically, it says as much in The Art of the Deal. But then, Trump didn't write it, so it's too much to ask for him to read it.
The problem with Trump is, I don't see how his experience in negotiations prepares him for his role as leader of a superpower. I don't think it does, he's in a role reversal. The negotiations I'm aware of, that Trump took part in during his business life, were very different. In his books one of the areas he talks alot about is, negotiating with banks to get business loans. Another area is negotiating with banks when he defaults on those loans, negotiating a write down of some of his debt. Another area where he has experience in "negotiating" is as a developer trying to get permits, approvals and tax abatements from various government authorities.

In other words, his experience has been negotiating as the less powerful entity negotiating with more powerful institutions. Now he is the powerful institution. And that's not a good role for him. Or at best, it's one he doesn't know much about. As he seems to be proving on a daily basis.
newyorkguy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:34 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.