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Old 4th March 2017, 07:23 AM   #1
ChristianProgressive
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Usurper Trump accuses President Obama of spying on him

In a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the growing-by-the-day evidence of his treasonous collusion with Russia, the regime accuses the former President of attempting to bug Trump Tower.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.054149f2be58
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Old 4th March 2017, 07:43 AM   #2
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Any day now Trump will be stabbing at the arras.
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Old 4th March 2017, 07:56 AM   #3
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My first impression: Holy crap!

My second impression: I would like to be able to discuss this in a thread which does not have such a tendentious title.
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Old 4th March 2017, 07:56 AM   #4
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This is either an explosive story full of scandal and political intrigue...or really, really weird.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
This is either an explosive story full of scandal and political intrigue...or really, really weird.
It's a telephone game of idiocy.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Any day now Trump will be stabbing at the arras.
I learned a new (or very old) word today.

Last edited by alfaniner; 4th March 2017 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:36 AM   #7
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Given how big he is on having named sources in the media, I'm sure he has several.

Or are we back to the days when "people are saying" counts as a credible source?
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
My first impression: Holy crap!

My second impression: I would like to be able to discuss this in a thread which does not have such a tendentious title.
Title fits perfectly.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:41 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The graphic in that tweet is awesomely awful.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:43 AM   #10
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Usuper.

Giggle!
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
In a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the growing-by-the-day evidence of his treasonous collusion with Russia, the regime accuses the former President of attempting to bug Trump Tower.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.054149f2be58
Seems like Obama should definitely have bugged a Russian spy and traitor who was conspiring to usurp the Presidency. Is Trump wrong about this?
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:51 AM   #12
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If true, Trump can publish the FISA warrant. If he doesn't, I'll just assume he's lying per the usual.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:52 AM   #13
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Who needs to wiretap when 45 and his staff are using unsecure mobile phones?

And probably use the same phones to call foreigners who are on an NSA observation list?

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Old 4th March 2017, 09:17 AM   #14
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I suppose it's possible that Trump is referring to something that was first reported in the New York Times before the election:

Quote:
In classified sessions in August and September, intelligence officials also briefed congressional leaders on the possibility of financial ties between Russians and people connected to Mr. Trump. They focused particular attention on what cyberexperts said appeared to be a mysterious computer back channel between the Trump Organization and the Alfa Bank, which is one of Russia’s biggest banks and whose owners have longstanding ties to Mr. Putin.

F.B.I. officials spent weeks examining computer data showing an odd stream of activity to a Trump Organization server and Alfa Bank. Computer logs obtained by The New York Times show that two servers at Alfa Bank sent more than 2,700 “look-up” messages — a first step for one system’s computers to talk to another — to a Trump-connected server beginning in the spring. But the F.B.I. ultimately concluded that there could be an innocuous explanation, like a marketing email or spam, for the computer contacts.
The question is "how did the FBI obtain the data from Trump's server?" Did it obtain it from public sources, did it use a subpoena, or did it go through the FISA court process, which is of course secret (but not to Trump now of course)?

There is some scuttlebutt I've seen that there was a FISA court application for wiretaps over the summer which was turned down (and it's almost unheard of for a judge to turn one of these suckers down), and that subsequently a narrow version was approved. I can find no credible source for that, however. The FISA court process is ultra-secret, so it's hard either to confirm or refute.
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Old 4th March 2017, 09:21 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
...snip...

There is some scuttlebutt I've seen that there was a FISA court application for wiretaps over the summer which was turned down (and it's almost unheard of for a judge to turn one of these suckers down), and that subsequently a narrow version was approved. I can find no credible source for that, however. The FISA court process is ultra-secret, so it's hard either to confirm or refute.
The two highlighted sentences seem contradictory?
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Old 4th March 2017, 09:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The two highlighted sentences seem contradictory?

Something being "ultra-secret" does not appear to be inconsistent with it being "almost unheard of".

Of course, the ultra-secrecy would also mean that it is almost unheard of for them to be approved...
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Old 4th March 2017, 09:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I suppose it's possible that Trump is referring to something that was first reported in the New York Times before the election:



The question is "how did the FBI obtain the data from Trump's server?" Did it obtain it from public sources, did it use a subpoena, or did it go through the FISA court process, which is of course secret (but not to Trump now of course)?

There is some scuttlebutt I've seen that there was a FISA court application for wiretaps over the summer which was turned down (and it's almost unheard of for a judge to turn one of these suckers down), and that subsequently a narrow version was approved. I can find no credible source for that, however. The FISA court process is ultra-secret, so it's hard either to confirm or refute.
If I read the text you quoted correctly, it only mentions data from Alfa Bank's servers (which could be hacked, monitored, cloned, whatever, since they're foreign). No need to hack or obtain data from Trump's servers -- just an IP address that's linked to it, and the OTHER server having logs of communication in a suspicious pattern.
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Old 4th March 2017, 09:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The two highlighted sentences seem contradictory?
They're not. There was some public information (which I don't have time to look up now) in relation to the phone metadata "scandal" coming to light a few years ago, where it was revealed that of the thousands of FISA court applications over the years, only a handful had been rejected.

ETA: Meh, that didn't take too long. Here is a WSJ article which is behind a paywall unfortunately:

Quote:
From 1979 through 2012, the court overseeing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act has rejected only 11 of the more than 33,900 surveillance applications by the government, according to annual Justice Department reports to Congress.

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Old 4th March 2017, 09:46 AM   #19
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Headline story on UK ITN News

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Old 4th March 2017, 09:57 AM   #20
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So what does The Hair suggest the security service do when investigating Russian agents? Why shouldn't he have been wiretapped?
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Given how big he is on having named sources in the media, I'm sure he has several.

Or are we back to the days when "people are saying" counts as a credible source?
Yep, especially when the people doing the saying are from Breitbart.

Quote:
Mr[/url] Trump's tweets followed allegations made by conservative radio host Mark Levin, which were later picked up by Breitbart News, the website founded by Steve Bannon, now Mr Trump's chief strategist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39167110

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Old 4th March 2017, 10:14 AM   #22
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Usurper LOL
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
In a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the growing-by-the-day evidence of his treasonous collusion with Russia, the regime accuses the former President of attempting to bug Trump Tower.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.054149f2be58
You are not inviting a reasoned debate when you can't stop using "usurper" in your thread titles. We all get it, but your emotional reaction to Trump's win taints the discussion.
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
In a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the growing-by-the-day evidence of his treasonous collusion with Russia, the regime accuses the former President of attempting to bug Trump Tower.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.054149f2be58
And then a half hour later, he tweeted about Celebrity Apprentice. Because he's presidential now.
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:32 AM   #25
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Amazing how many fit in the GOP circus clown car. Must be a world record.
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:32 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And then a half hour later, he tweeted about Celebrity Apprentice. Because he's presidential now.
To paraphrase Jason Kander, a 70-year old man who watches 6 hours of Fox News a day, plays lots of golf, and always seems to be in Florida is a retiree, not a President.
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:39 AM   #27
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Another instance of the Trump White House trying to create diversions from the real issues.
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Old 4th March 2017, 10:58 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You are not inviting a reasoned debate when you can't stop using "usurper" in your thread titles. .
Well, if people would actually address the topic instead of focusing on the usurper part, we could. And if everyone stopped responding to those that whine about it in an attempt to distract from the debate.

It's really not hard.
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Old 4th March 2017, 11:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by seayakin View Post
Another instance of the Trump White House trying to create diversions from the real issues.
Yea, I'm willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt sometimes but this appears pretty transparent
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Old 4th March 2017, 11:29 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Well, if people would actually address the topic instead of focusing on the usurper part, we could. And if everyone stopped responding to those that whine about it in an attempt to distract from the debate.

It's really not hard.
This is his third title using it and some of us are tired of the nonsense.

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Old 4th March 2017, 12:17 PM   #31
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Trump says Obama (tried to?) "tapp" his phones or whatever - hmmm - which country is famous for spying on everyone? Worse than the U.S., I mean. And beyond the UK's (or London's) ubiquitous candid camera captures?

Here are 2 questions I haven't seen an answer to yet. How did Justice know about Flynn's conversations with the Russian ambassador? And, what evidence convinced Trump that the Russians were behind the meddling or mischief surrounding "hacks" of DNC? Was it the pee-pee video, or the dossier alleging it?

I put "hacks" in quotation marks because it almost doesn't deserve the name. Sending Podesta an email saying he has to change his password? Duh? Then someone else in the organization said this was "legitimate" - apparently meaning "illegitimate" - and that he must change his password immediately.

Maybe the Russians have tapped Trump's hair?

But just because he's paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get him!
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is his third title using it and some of us are tired of the nonsense.
And I'm tired of people whining about it instead of actually addressing the topic.

So what? Just address the topic and ignore the crap. It's real easy to do.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:30 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And I'm tired of people whining about it instead of actually addressing the topic.

So what? Just address the topic and ignore the crap. It's real easy to do.
I suppose the irony of your complaint escapes you.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:30 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And I'm tired of people whining about it instead of actually addressing the topic.

So what? Just address the topic and ignore the crap. It's real easy to do.
It deliberately poisons the topic for fair discussion.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I suppose the irony of your complaint escapes you.
Not at all. That's the whole point.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:34 PM   #36
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Very interesting article by Andrew McCarthy at NRO. It at least gives some background on the separation of criminal investigations and national security investigations in the FBI (and the DOJ generally):

Quote:
The reason the Wall theory [the theory behind separating criminal from national security investigations] was absurd was that a rogue agent would surely manufacture evidence of a crime before he’d manufacture a national-security angle. The process of getting a traditional wiretap is straightforward: FBI crim-div agents and a district assistant U.S. attorney (AUSA) write the supporting affidavit; it gets approved by the AUSA’s supervisors; then it is submitted to the Justice Department’s electronic-surveillance unit; after that unit’s approval, the attorney general’s designee signs off; then the AUSA and the FBI present the application to a district judge. FISA wiretaps, by contrast, go through a completely different, more difficult and remote chain of command. In it, the district AUSA and FBI crim-div agents who started the investigation get cut out of the process, which is taken over by Main Justice’s National Security Division and the FBI’s national-security agents. In other words, if we assume an agent is inclined to be a rogue, it would be far easier (and less likely of detection) to trump up evidence of a crime in order to satisfy the probable-cause standard for a traditional wiretap than to manufacture a national-security threat in order to get a FISA wiretap. No rational rogue would do it.
The article was written in early January, so some of this information has been bubbling up for a while. Not sure why Trump finally started tweeting about it. Maybe some new information was uncovered, maybe Trump finally started paying attention to it, maybe Trump is just trolling. I have no idea at this point.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:43 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Very interesting article by Andrew McCarthy at NRO. It at least gives some background on the separation of criminal investigations and national security investigations in the FBI (and the DOJ generally):



The article was written in early January, so some of this information has been bubbling up for a while. Not sure why Trump finally started tweeting about it. Maybe some new information was uncovered, maybe Trump finally started paying attention to it, maybe Trump is just trolling. I have no idea at this point.
The leading reason is Breitbart ran an article Friday summarizing a radio broadcast Thursday and Saturday is Trump's day off.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:47 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The leading reason is Breitbart ran an article Friday summarizing a radio broadcast Thursday and Saturday is Trump's day off.
Which even Breitbart themselves think is what happened.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:47 PM   #39
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:facepalm:

Trump sucks and is unqualified, but he got the job.

Can I get a second and let's move along?
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:58 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
:facepalm:

Trump sucks and is unqualified, but he got the job.

Can I get a second and let's move along?
Move along? This is different than lying about crowd sizes. Someone this paranoid shouldn't be the CIC.

Unless Trump is right, but the odds on that seem very small.
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