ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 5th March 2017, 08:36 AM   #121
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,503
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
He's obviously in on the conspiracy.

Trump would never lie about something as serious as this. It would be like saying that millions of illegal votes cast in favor of his opponent cost him the popular vote. He'd be crazy and completely reckless with his credibility to make claims like this without solid evidence. No one would ever take him seriously.
It could be he's saying without saying that Russians were under surveillance and Trump people kept calling/meeting them. It was a very specific denial.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 08:40 AM   #122
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 52,031
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Well, I constantly use "great orange turdblossom" and have been for about a month, to no complaints. Obviously it has reached consensus. Conservatives and other regretful Trump supporters seem sensitive about "usurper" (maybe they're having trouble sleeping at night for their part in it?) but are fine with "Great Orange Turdblossom".

And far be it from me to annoy the conservatives and Trumpistas, so I'll stick with it. Others should try it.

(Many thanks to Guardians of the Galaxy for giving me the term "turdblossom".)
Actually, turd/tird blossom is older than that by a good deal though it was popularized in the Bush the Lesser time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turd_Blossom
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 08:48 AM   #123
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 52,031
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Doesn't mean we like it.

Snide comments about Trump's appearance and references to fecal matter are childish. Please just refer to him as 'Trump' - that alone is sufficient...
Nope, the terms attached to it will tend to vary over/be based on the extent of its' stupidity or evil or the general mix of those on a case by case basis. Unless it behaves properly and expires soon, the terms will continue for four years and they will never be inappropriate. It is and will forever be a deep and lasting stain on the history of our country and on a bit under half of it's citizens. Over half if you count those that could have voted but did not.
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

Last edited by fuelair; 5th March 2017 at 08:51 AM.
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 08:50 AM   #124
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 52,031
Which, by the way, I do!!!!
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 09:35 AM   #125
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 19,546
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
So I'm to assume the only 2 remaining possibilities are that the wiretapping was illegal, or Trump is certified grade a nutso?
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 09:44 AM   #126
sunmaster14
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,608
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
So I'm to assume the only 2 remaining possibilities are that the wiretapping was illegal, or Trump is certified grade a nutso?
Another possibility is that James Clapper is lying. It would hardly be unprecedented for him.
sunmaster14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 09:54 AM   #127
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 19,546
Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Another possibility is that James Clapper is lying. It would hardly be unprecedented for him.
I'm pretty sure it's as simple as your fuhrer is grade a nutso.
And I'm VERY confident that you know it.
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 10:16 AM   #128
sunmaster14
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,608
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I'm pretty sure it's as simple as your fuhrer is grade a nutso.
And I'm VERY confident that you know it.
Actually no. I'm starting to think that these incendiary tweets and statements are done to draw media attention to topics which were being given short shrift. For example, I didn't know that a FISA warrant had been requested which had Trump's name in it (if indeed that is true - it hasn't been denied so far).
sunmaster14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 10:39 AM   #129
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 16,015
ISNF
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 10:46 AM   #130
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 19,546
Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Actually no. I'm starting to think that these incendiary tweets and statements are done to draw media attention to topics which were being given short shrift. For example, I didn't know that a FISA warrant had been requested which had Trump's name in it (if indeed that is true - it hasn't been denied so far).
Actually it has been denied. Clapper denied it, but you think OMG! He's lying!

Pretty much everybody who says anything about that retard you people elected is a lie, if it's negative.

amirite?
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:04 AM   #131
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 58,941
Originally Posted by imodium View Post
If he wasn't president he would be mayor of crazytown.
Its funny that his supporters here tactic is to attack the thread title rather than the actual topic.


You might want to re-read the posts of those who've objected to the thread title, your assumption about motive is ludicrously off base.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:05 AM   #132
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 58,941
Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/

I put that ^^^ in another thread, but it applies here.
It's from November.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:11 AM   #133
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 13,798
Sigh. If you want to know why the powers of the President keep expanding, this is a perfect example. I see two arguments hereabouts: the claim that Obama spied on Trump is ridiculous, and anyway, Trump should have been spied upon.

If you wanted to keep Trump from getting more power, you should be shouting from the heavens that this should be investigated hard, because you only have credibility arguing that Obama's administration should be investigated.

This article from January talks about what really is the key point in the issue:

Quote:
According to the New York Times (based on FBI sources), the FBI initially determined that the Trump Tower server did not have “any nefarious purpose.” But then, Heat Street says, “the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server.” Again, agents do not ordinarily draw FISA requests around possible crimes. Possible crimes prompt applications for regular criminal wiretaps because the objective is to prosecute any such crimes in court. (It is rare and controversial to use FISA wiretaps in criminal prosecutions.) FISA applications, to the contrary, are drawn around people suspected of being operatives of a (usually hostile) foreign power.
By several sources, including the Guardian, Obama's Justice Department sought FISA wiretaps on at least four individuals involved with Trump's campaign, which were denied.

Quote:
The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.
When I hear the party in power was trying to tap the phones of the party out of power, I think Watergate.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:19 AM   #134
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,000
If Obama was able to puppet the FBI to that extent, why couldn't he get Comey to, y'know, not send the letter to Republicans about Clinton's emails right before the election which turned out to be a whole lot of nothing? Especially since the argument for Comey issuing that letter was because lower-level FBI agents and officials were so pro-Trump and anti-Clinton that he had to do it lest those pro-Trump and anti-Clinton agents and officials leak the details out from under him?

EDIT: And I'm amused how the reaction from right-wingers has gone from "The FBI investigated the Trump campaign and found nothing" to "How dare the FBI investigate the Trump campaign! It must be Obama's doing!" now that they think the FBI investigation had judge-approved warrants. They must be really desperate to deflect from what the FBI is investigating.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

Last edited by A'isha; 5th March 2017 at 11:23 AM.
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:22 AM   #135
sunmaster14
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,608
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Sigh. If you want to know why the powers of the President keep expanding, this is a perfect example. I see two arguments hereabouts: the claim that Obama spied on Trump is ridiculous, and anyway, Trump should have been spied upon.

If you wanted to keep Trump from getting more power, you should be shouting from the heavens that this should be investigated hard, because you only have credibility arguing that Obama's administration should be investigated.

This article from January talks about what really is the key point in the issue:



By several sources, including the Guardian, Obama's Justice Department sought FISA wiretaps on at least four individuals involved with Trump's campaign, which were denied.
As near as I can tell, there is only one source for this: Louise Mensch from Heat Street. All other citations are derivative of this.

It sounds plausible, but it has not yet been confirmed independently. As each hour passes without confirmation, I'm becoming more skeptical of the claim.

That being said, I will note that the denials coming from Obama's people (not counting Clapper) are sort of the non-denial denial type of denial. That is, suspiciously weaselly and narrow.
sunmaster14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:23 AM   #136
sunmaster14
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,608
Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
If Obama was able to puppet the FBI to that extent, why couldn't he get Comey to, y'know, not send the letter to Republicans about Clinton's emails right before the election which turned out to be a whole lot of nothing? Especially since the argument for Comey issuing that letter was because lower-level FBI agents and officials were so pro-Trump and anti-Clinton that he had to do it lest those pro-Trump and anti-Clinton agents and officials leak the details out from under him?
Loretta Lynch tried to stop Comey from sending that letter. She couldn't stop him.
sunmaster14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:23 AM   #137
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 58,941
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Sigh. If you want to know why the powers of the President keep expanding, this is a perfect example. I see two arguments hereabouts: the claim that Obama spied on Trump is ridiculous, and anyway, Trump should have been spied upon....
Your dishonest reframing is noted.

Try this: the claim that Obama spied on Trump is ridiculous because it wasn't his job to do (it was the FBI's or the CIA's), and it would have required a warrant.

And if a warrant were obtained it would mean there was evidence Trump should have been spied upon.

Do you see the difference?
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:26 AM   #138
sunmaster14
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,608
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your dishonest reframing is noted.

Try this: the claim that Obama spied on Trump is ridiculous because it wasn't his job to do (it was the FBI's or the CIA's), and it would have required a warrant.

And if a warrant were obtained it would mean there was evidence Trump should have been spied upon.
It wouldn't have meant that at all. FISA courts typically rubber stamp anything the FBI wants to do. I cited a source earlier which stated that only 11 FISA applications had been denied out of over 30,000, from 1978 through 2012.
sunmaster14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:28 AM   #139
paulhutch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 1,656
Julian Sanchez, senior fellow at the Cato Institute, has an article up with a good review of the details.
https://www.justsecurity.org/38347/tapping-trump/
The concluding paragraph:
Quote:
In short, both Breitbart and Trump have advanced claims far more dramatic than anything the public evidence can support. That said, intelligence monitoring—whether direct or indirect—of persons connected with a presidential campaign inherently carries a high risk of abuse, and as Congress moves to launch its own inquiries into the Trump campaign’s Russian ties, it would be entirely appropriate to further scrutinize both the FBI’s initial surveillance and applications and the surveillance that was ultimately conducted for any signs of impropriety. In the meantime, it might behoove the Commander in Chief to refrain from issuing serious and inflammatory accusations based wholly on “intelligence” gleaned from Breitbart News.
paulhutch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:34 AM   #140
Garrison
Illuminator
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,169
Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
It wouldn't have meant that at all. FISA courts typically rubber stamp anything the FBI wants to do. I cited a source earlier which stated that only 11 FISA applications had been denied out of over 30,000, from 1978 through 2012.
Which is a whole other topic, must you try and sidetrack every thread? Trump's claim is that Obama ordered the wiretapping, for which claim he has offered zero evidence and which appears to be based on nothing but reports on a couple of right wing conspiracy sites.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
Garrison is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:40 AM   #141
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
It wouldn't have meant that at all. FISA courts typically rubber stamp anything the FBI wants to do. I cited a source earlier which stated that only 11 FISA applications had been denied out of over 30,000, from 1978 through 2012.
But that doesn't provide an evaluation of the quality of evidence used for those 30,000 warrants.
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:41 AM   #142
Skeptic Ginger
formerly skeptigirl
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 58,941
Interview on MTP with James Clapper is chock full of good information. Watch it if you can.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 11:51 AM   #143
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,000
Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Loretta Lynch tried to stop Comey from sending that letter. She couldn't stop him.
A) Everything I found says Lynch specifically didn't try to order Comey not to send the letter even though she apparently could have, and B) even if you're right, that kind of proves my point - the Obama DOJ couldn't stop the FBI from investigating Clinton or even sending a letter to Republicans about the the investigation, but was able to induce the FBI to illegally and illicitly investigate Trump, right down to fraudulently obtaining warrants?
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 12:21 PM   #144
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 13,666
Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
Julian Sanchez, senior fellow at the Cato Institute, has an article up with a good review of the details.
https://www.justsecurity.org/38347/tapping-trump/
The concluding paragraph:
Quote:
In short, both Breitbart and Trump have advanced claims far more dramatic than anything the public evidence can support. That said, intelligence monitoring—whether direct or indirect—of persons connected with a presidential campaign inherently carries a high risk of abuse, and as Congress moves to launch its own inquiries into the Trump campaign’s Russian ties, it would be entirely appropriate to further scrutinize both the FBI’s initial surveillance and applications and the surveillance that was ultimately conducted for any signs of impropriety. In the meantime, it might behoove the Commander in Chief to refrain from issuing serious and inflammatory accusations based wholly on “intelligence” gleaned from Breitbart News.
Quoted for sanity and fairness.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 12:28 PM   #145
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,503
WH officials with whom I spoke said POTUS got the info about wiretap from media - Breitbart, Levin - not from govt sources.
It's astounding that Trump has access to possible the best intel apparatus on the planet to inform him but chooses to use third hand rumor mongers because they're aimed at his ego.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:00 PM   #146
Aber
Muse
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 730
And it is not clear that the White House is standing by the claims made in the tweets

Quote:
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” White House deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders repeatedly said that the president’s allegation was worth looking into.
“He's asking that we get down to the bottom of this, let's get the truth here, let's find out,” Huckabee Sanders said. “I think the bigger story isn't who reported it, but is it true. And I think the American people have a right to know if this happened, because if it did, again, this is the largest abuse of power that, I think, we have ever seen.”
Several significant ifs, which looks like the start of damage limitation efforts.

"not saying its true, just that it needs to be looked into"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9ee5e5e4c724
Aber is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:23 PM   #147
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 52,031
Originally Posted by Aber View Post
And it is not clear that the White House is standing by the claims made in the tweets



Several significant ifs, which looks like the start of damage limitation efforts.

"not saying its true, just that it needs to be looked into"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9ee5e5e4c724
Dip **** idiots (aka republickers and their cling-ons) will be dip **** tools!!!!!
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:30 PM   #148
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,441
As POTUS doesn’t Trump have access to all the evidence snd intelligence he needs on this?

Why would he need anyone else to set up an inquiry to find out?

He's admitting he has nothing by asking Congress to investigate.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:35 PM   #149
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 20,526
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As POTUS doesn’t Trump have access to all the evidence snd intelligence he needs on this?

Why would he need anyone else to set up an inquiry to find out?

He's admitting he has nothing by asking Congress to investigate.
And a GOP controlled congress will play along because it keeps the fake controversy alive for years while the investigation goes ahead. It can also be as wide ranging as they like so all kinds of nonsense can be leant some credibility
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:43 PM   #150
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 16,563
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Actually, turd/tird blossom is older than that by a good deal though it was popularized in the Bush the Lesser time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turd_Blossom
Quote:
reportedly assigned by former U.S. President George W. Bush as a term of endearment for his former chief political advisor, Karl Rove

Priceless.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:46 PM   #151
The_Animus
Master Poster
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,456
Trump got his information from Breitbart. Breitbart got this information how exactly?

If this was all a nefarious plot by Obama why didn't this get leaked and get more attention prior to the election when it may have prevented Trump from winning instead of now from Breitbart/Trump?

It's like Sandy Hook. Apparently no one was killed and it's a false flag operation designed to take away our guns but then Obama poses for a picture with the dead girl?

Or the 3-5 million illegal votes in states that didn't change the outcome of the election.

I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and someone was talking about Russian controlled media and how what they say isn't what Putin believes, but what he wants his people to believe. I wonder if Trump actually believes his tweets, or if they are just what he wants his followers to believe. Trump isn't as smart or competent as Putin so it could go either way.
__________________
Straw Man, Ad Hominem, Moving the Goalposts, and a massive post count are all good indicators that a poster is intellectually dishonest and not interested in real discussion.

Feeding trolls only makes them stronger, yet it is so hard to refrain.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:52 PM   #152
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,503
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
And a GOP controlled congress will play along because it keeps the fake controversy alive for years while the investigation goes ahead. It can also be as wide ranging as they like so all kinds of nonsense can be leant some credibility
If the GOP learned anything from eternally reinvestigating Benghazi, it's that there's no price to be paid for openly and obviously acting in bad faith.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 01:59 PM   #153
dejudge
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
WH officials with whom I spoke said POTUS got the info about wiretap from media - Breitbart, Levin - not from govt sources.
It's astounding that Trump has access to possible the best intel apparatus on the planet to inform him but chooses to use third hand rumor mongers because they're aimed at his ego.
Trump is openly lying to the American people if he never had any evidence that Obama wire tapped the Trump Tower.

James Clapper claimed there was no wire-tapping of Trump's Tower.

How can Trump constantly invent fictitious events virtually everyday and still be fit to continue as President of the USA?
dejudge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:04 PM   #154
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,042
Originally Posted by dejudge View Post

How can Trump constantly invent fictitious events virtually everyday and still be fit to continue as President of the USA?
At the very least, Congress should keep censure in mind.
__________________
"God is not a magician" - Pope Francis

"I doubt that!" - James Randi
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:24 PM   #155
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,658
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
At the very least, Congress should keep censure in mind.
If the leader of just about any other developed western country behaved like this they'd be forced to resign, be evicted from their office by a vote of no confidence or something similar.

This kind of disgraceful behavior is usually only seen in incredibly dysfunctional developing countries.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:29 PM   #156
skyeagle409
Graduate Poster
 
skyeagle409's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,172
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Really? It's mind boggling to you how the electoral college works?

Yes I do know how it works and in fact, I have provided details and history on the Electoral College recently. I know a lot more about the EC than you think and understand why there are calls to fix the EC, which is broken at this point and if you check it out, the EC is not democratic.

I might further add add that both Clinton and Trump have slammed the EC as well, not to mention that there were some electors who actually went against the grain and voted against the majority of voters and that brings to mind what happened in Texas.

Last edited by skyeagle409; 5th March 2017 at 02:32 PM.
skyeagle409 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:36 PM   #157
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,315
If Obama is innocent of the charges leveled by Trump, Trump owes Obama and the American people a HUGE apology
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:43 PM   #158
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,503
Comey requests the Justice Department reject Trump's spurious claim.

Quote:
The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, asked the Justice Department this weekend to publicly reject President Trump’s assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the tapping of Mr. Trump’s phones, senior American officials said on Sunday. Mr. Comey has argued that the highly charged claim is false and must be corrected, they said, but the department has not released any such statement.

Mr. Comey made the request on Saturday after Mr. Trump leveled his allegation on Twitter. Mr. Comey has been working to get the Justice Department to knock down Mr. Trump’s claim because there is no evidence to support it and it insinuates that the F.B.I. broke the law, the officials said.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:44 PM   #159
skyeagle409
Graduate Poster
 
skyeagle409's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,172
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If Obama is innocent of the charges leveled by Trump, Trump owes Obama and the American people a HUGE apology

I agree! I think Trump's sources work for 'Fake News.'
skyeagle409 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2017, 02:45 PM   #160
dejudge
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
If Obama is innocent of the charges leveled by Trump, Trump owes Obama and the American people a HUGE apology
If Trump never had any evidence, that is he knowingly made false claims, then shouldn't he be impeached or voluntarily demit the office of the Presidency?
dejudge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:54 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.