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Old 5th March 2017, 10:01 PM   #201
newyorkguy
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I'm waiting for George W. Bush to say or do something that makes The Dunce angry. You know what that'll lead to right? Thermite!

I also don't understand why the media refers to the Steele dossier (including the golden shower) as disproved. I don't recall seeing that anything has proven to be false.

I'll say this for Trump: he knew how to get the Russian connection out of the news, didn't he?
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Old 5th March 2017, 10:44 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I bet it rankles like hell, knowing he can turn it on when he wants, and then watching day after day as he doesn't turn it on when *you* want.

Some might have hoped that he could actually have managed to be presidential after the election, rather than unconvincingly attempt to pretend to be on rare occasions.
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Old 5th March 2017, 10:54 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why are you looking forward to that? I can see no upside there, for anyone.
I am much under the impression that was the point being made........
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Old 5th March 2017, 11:03 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I'm waiting for George W. Bush to say or do something that makes The Dunce angry. You know what that'll lead to right? Thermite!

I also don't understand why the media refers to the Steele dossier (including the golden shower) as disproved. I don't recall seeing that anything has proven to be false.

I'll say this for Trump: he knew how to get the Russian connection out of the news, didn't he?
GW is basking in the, "history proved I wasn't that bad", without any acknowledgement that current events might have something to do with that.
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Old 5th March 2017, 11:09 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Some might have hoped that he could actually have managed to be presidential after the election, rather than unconvincingly attempt to pretend to be on rare occasions.
It amuses me that people haven't figured it out yet. The news media (CNN MSNBC) were falling all over their confirmation bias trying to fit the Obama wiretap Tweet into an actual POTUS level comment and the speech before Congress into a 'I can't believe he isn't normal' pigeon hole.

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Old 5th March 2017, 11:13 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
What do you mean? They're in there with him. Have our local Trump acolytes rejected even the most outlandish claim?
They are quite busy staying out of any science threads where they might be shredded alive.
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These cuts would be particularly dangerous given that the Trump team has suggested eliminating NASA’s Earth observation program and shifting its work over to NOAA. According to Bob Walker, a Trump senior campaign adviser, NASA should focus on exploration and studying deep space, not “politically correct environmental monitoring.”
Intellectual capitulation, straight from the GOP Big Tent and its carnival barkers. Been listening to these fools for eight years with their conspiracy theories and trembling in fear at anything not called Mommy; now they are in charge, and the pants-peeing has started in earnest. Let their children - children! - face it all later, and pay for it, too. Time was this sort of panicked abandonment of one's post and duties was understood as the rank, foul cowardice it is. America, great again. Riiiight.
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Old 5th March 2017, 11:42 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by dejudge View Post
Trump's clean??? There was no warrant. Trump's claim is pure fiction.
That's nice. How did they know Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador?

Barry never said there was no warrant; only that he never ordered it and that's what the DoJ does.
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Old 5th March 2017, 11:48 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...I've been here since 2003, and ridiculous thread titles is a staple of this place. Who can forget the infamous "Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel?" thread? You can take my "Responsible Gun Owner" thread titles from my cold dead hands.
They certainly help to tag which threads to not take seriously.
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Old 5th March 2017, 11:58 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
That's nice. How did they know Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador?

Barry never said there was no warrant; only that he never ordered it and that's what the DoJ does.
Glad you agree that all the evidence so far points to the conclusion that Trump was lying.
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Old 6th March 2017, 12:01 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Remember when Trump, supposedly, pivoted to a more Presidential tone? How long did that last?
Same length of time as every other "pivot" he pulled. Basically, he shows up, reads a speech, and then a couple of days later he's back to being an infowars-style nutter.
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Old 6th March 2017, 12:35 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
The false claims are both weird and despicable, but it's hard to make the case they rise to the "high crimes and misdemeanors" hurdle for impeachment.

Which is why I mentioned censure as a first and more feasible goal.

The question is how many Republicans would go along with it.
IMO, unless Trump becomes electoral poison - and there's no indication that's going to happen any time soon, GOP supporters absolutely love him - there isn't a chance that sufficient Republicans go along with it. Ignoring party loyalty, stepping out of line is a good way to get yourself replaced by someone the Trump supporters like.
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Old 6th March 2017, 12:38 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
What do you mean? They're in there with him. Have our local Trump acolytes rejected even the most outlandish claim?
Some have rationalised it as the only way Trump could get Congress to address FISA overreach (despite Trump being a vocal supporter comparatively recently).
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:01 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
That's nice. How did they know Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador?

Barry never said there was no warrant; only that he never ordered it and that's what the DoJ does.
I could be wrong here but I'm guessing that one of the first phones the US secret services target for regular monitoring is the Russian Ambassadors.
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:55 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I could be wrong here but I'm guessing that one of the first phones the US secret services target for regular monitoring is the Russian Ambassadors.
You would hope so.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:12 AM   #215
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I was always told in the past that bugging doesn't happen, and what can you do about it?
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:15 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I was always told in the past that bugging doesn't happen,
Who told you this nonsense ?
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:30 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by TheRealnz View Post
That's nice. How did they know Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador?

Barry never said there was no warrant; only that he never ordered it and that's what the DoJ does.
The US intelligence agencies seem to regularly monitor foreign governments. I seem to remember a stushie about the monitoring of Germany, a NATO ally. So I am pretty sure they monitor Russian communications big time. They didn't need to go looking for Flynn, Flynn came running to the Russians and gave himself away in the process.
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Old 6th March 2017, 04:48 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Some might have hoped that he could actually have managed to be presidential after the election, rather than unconvincingly attempt to pretend to be on rare occasions.
It is better to look good than to be good.

Thank you Fernando.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:09 AM   #219
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I think it would be entertaining if Obama started dropping not-so-vague hints that he currently is tapping Trump's phones.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:23 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
No doubt. It also leaves open the possibility that other persons were targeted and subsequently contacted people associated with Trump.

He was pretty definite that he'd have been in the loop if there had been an FBI FISA warrant, although he does end with a rather weak "not to my knowledge".
He also said "I can deny it". Which is not the same as "I deny it" or "I do not know".

There's also such a thing as "officially know", which goes along with the "I can deny". If he was told in private, without paper trail, he "does not know".
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:44 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Knowing that Trump's "Presidential" modes are but temporary aberrations which are probably maneuvered into with great effort of will, perhaps it's better for him to forego the strain and just remain in his natural, befuddled, angst-addled 'Twitter-tween' persona.
One of the news shows brought up a speech where Trump mockingly showed how he could "act presidential", and turned on "Presidential Mode".

Let me see if I can find it.

Here you go: https://youtu.be/lNEBuSk7X1A
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:53 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I also don't understand why the media refers to the Steele dossier (including the golden shower) as disproved. I don't recall seeing that anything has proven to be false.
We all know how hard it is to prove a negative, right?

I recall at least one aspect was disproved: one player alleged to be somewhere (Moscow?) was demonstrably not there at the time in question.

I'll happily yield to anyone with better recall than I on this one.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:17 AM   #223
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Trump team now rejecting Comeys denial. This may escalate quickly.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:25 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Because of course Obama had *no reason at all* to tap Trump's communications.
Wouldn't it have been easier to leak his tax returns if he really wanted to use illegal methods to undermine Trump?
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:37 AM   #225
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So far, that stupid, idiotic, greedy liar Trump has blamed Obama for:

the rise of ISIS,
the recent disruptions at Republican town hall meetings,
wire-tapping his telephones, and
several other things.

Therefore, I expect that it will not be too long before Trump forgets how old Obama is and then blames Obama for the Kennedy assassination.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:41 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
We all know how hard it is to prove a negative, right?

I recall at least one aspect was disproved: one player alleged to be somewhere (Moscow?) was demonstrably not there at the time in question.

I'll happily yield to anyone with better recall than I on this one.
I do not recall having seen such a definitive dismissal of a fact within the Steele dossier.

In my observation, there are two types of dismissals of it:

1) Because of the way it was presented and by whom, and by people who express incredulity of its contents. There's no definitive dismissal in these types.

2) Misreading the dossier, intentionally or not. A lot of information in it is like this: "Alice told Bob she overheard Charlie speaking about a meeting between David and Erica in the park on Tuesday." The relevant part here is the last one because of who David and Erica are, but people do not grasp that and believe that Alice, Bob, or Charlie needed to be in the park on Tuesday when they didn't.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:41 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Wouldn't it have been easier to leak his tax returns if he really wanted to use illegal methods to undermine Trump?
Not if there isn't anything incriminating in those tax returns. And, frankly, I doubt very much that there is. It's not like the IRS doesn't go over a billionaire's tax returns with a fine-toothed comb.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:47 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Not if there isn't anything incriminating in those tax returns. And, frankly, I doubt very much that there is. It's not like the IRS doesn't go over a billionaire's tax returns with a fine-toothed comb.
True. I understood that, among other thing , his tax returns would allow his claims of charitable giving to be assessed.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:50 AM   #229
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Thus morning on Today, Savannah Guthrie kept trying to get Trump deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders to answer her question about whether Trump got his information from Breitbart or from an actual source, and Huckabee Sanders kept dodging.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:58 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Thus morning on Today, Savannah Guthrie kept trying to get Trump deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders to answer her question about whether Trump got his information from Breitbart or from an actual source, and Huckabee Sanders kept dodging.
Duh. It's up to Congress to investigate baseless claims made by the President on Twitter, and commenting on an ongoing investigation would be inappropriate.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:04 AM   #231
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I think I'm getting the hang of how things work behind the scenes in the white house

Trump: So what records ARE there of all our dealings with Russia? They don't have our emails or anything, right?
Aide: Um. I think they do. The NSA does.
Trump: They save our emails? Why are they saving our emails?
Aide: They save everyone's email. Yours, mine, everyone's.
Trump: They save MY emails?!
Aide: Yes, sir. They save the whole internet, really. It's called "Warrantless Wiretapping," it's been happening for years and it was expanded a bunch under Obama-
Trump: OBAMA'S WIRETAPPING ME?
Aide: ...no, sir. Not exactly.

Trump, waking in a cold sweat: How DARE Obama wiretap me! Twitter shall hear of this!
Bannon: Come on, Donnie, it's three in the morning. I know nightmares are scary, poor kiddo. You've gotta get back to bed, you've got a really big day being president tomorrow. Why don't I tell you the story about how you were the best host of Celebrity Apprentice ever, huh? You like that one, right?
Trump: ...okay.


Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Not if there isn't anything incriminating in those tax returns. And, frankly, I doubt very much that there is. It's not like the IRS doesn't go over a billionaire's tax returns with a fine-toothed comb.
Trump ain't a billionaire. Stacko didn't say "incriminate," he said "undermine." Trump doesn't want his tax returns released because they'd show he's not worth much more than what his daddy gave him to begin with, and that's underminey as anything.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:07 AM   #232
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I guess that Trump was put under tranquillisers when he made his address to Congress. It is the only way to explain how he could then be so quiet in comparison to his behaviour before and after that day...
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:14 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
I guess that Trump was put under tranquillisers when he made his address to Congress. It is the only way to explain how he could then be so quiet in comparison to his behaviour before and after that day...
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:16 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
...snip...

Therefore, I expect that it will not be too long before Trump forgets how old Obama is and then blames Obama for the Kennedy assassination.
And how do you know how old Obama is? All we have to go on is that faked birth certificate
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:19 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Not if there isn't anything incriminating in those tax returns. And, frankly, I doubt very much that there is.
Of course you do.

Quote:
It's not like the IRS doesn't go over a billionaire's tax returns with a fine-toothed comb.
You're confusing "legally incriminating" with "politically incriminating." Lots of business ties with a certain Slavic nation might not be legally incriminating, but it sure as **** would be politically incriminating.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:25 AM   #236
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I think I'm getting the hang of how things work behind the scenes in the white house

Trump: So what records ARE there of all our dealings with Russia? They don't have our emails or anything, right?
Aide: Um. I think they do. The NSA does.
Trump: They save our emails? Why are they saving our emails?
Aide: They save everyone's email. Yours, mine, everyone's.
Trump: They save MY emails?!
Aide: Yes, sir. They save the whole internet, really. It's called "Warrantless Wiretapping," it's been happening for years and it was expanded a bunch under Obama-
Trump: OBAMA'S WIRETAPPING ME?
Aide: ...no, sir. Not exactly.

Trump, waking in a cold sweat: How DARE Obama wiretap me! Twitter shall hear of this!
Bannon: Come on, Donnie, it's three in the morning. I know nightmares are scary, poor kiddo. You've gotta get back to bed, you've got a really big day being president tomorrow. Why don't I tell you the story about how you were the best host of Celebrity Apprentice ever, huh? You like that one, right?
Trump: ...okay.



Trump ain't a billionaire. Stacko didn't say "incriminate," he said "undermine." Trump doesn't want his tax returns released because they'd show he's not worth much more than what his daddy gave him to begin with, and that's underminey as anything.
Tax returns don't show your net worth. Nor is it easy to infer net worth from taxable income. In any case, Trump is almost certainly a billionaire. Just his real estate holdings alone put him well over $1.5 billion, and it is virtually impossible for him to have enough unsecured, recourse debt to bring his net worth materially below that.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:28 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Of course you do.



You're confusing "legally incriminating" with "politically incriminating." Lots of business ties with a certain Slavic nation might not be legally incriminating, but it sure as **** would be politically incriminating.
First of all, it wouldn't be politically incriminating either. Tax returns would not show anything with sufficient specificity to imply ties to the Russian government. Second, I doubt any such Russian investments or loans exist. They would have been dug up by now, given the number of Democratic party operatives and mainstream media reporters (but I repeat myself) that have been digging for the last year.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:32 AM   #238
newyorkguy
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A CNN reporter with contacts among White House staff said Sunday that Trump had become very angry Friday afternoon when he was preparing to head to Florida. Specifically he was angriest at senior staff for not doing a better job of managing the Sessions-Russia issue. Apparently the prez was blaming the senior staff for allowing Sessions to get maneuvered into a position where he had to recuse himself from any Trump/campaign/Russia investigations.

I think there is some reason to suspect Trump invented the Obama wiretapping issue at least in part to get the Sessions-Russia issue out of the news. In that regard it worked. Of course the down side is, it makes our prez look a little crazy.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:38 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I was always told in the past that bugging doesn't happen,
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Who told you this nonsense ?
Angela Merkel.
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Old 6th March 2017, 07:41 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Angela Merkel.
Angela Merkel said that there was no bugging ?
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