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Old 6th March 2017, 01:49 PM   #321
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If you read your own citation then you would already know.

You were the one who was insinuating that your citation shows that Obama may well have used the rule change to establish that Obama was indeed tapping Trump's telephone.

However, your own citation clearly shows that this is not the fact.
Wow, someone is drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon.....and it ain't Crossbow.
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:50 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
How does that story from back in January mean Trump's Breitbart-fueled paranoid nonsense from this past weekend is actually justified?

Particularly since it discusses actions taken long after the alleged "wiretaps" supposedly happened.
It doesn't matter what Trump does because look at the no-longer-POTUS Obama. LOOOOOOOK!!!
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:50 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If you read your own citation then you would already know.

You were the one who was insinuating that your citation shows that Obama may well have used the rule change to establish that Obama was indeed tapping Trump's telephone.

However, your own citation clearly shows that this is not the fact.
Once again, you are confused. The NSA collects crap from all over the world, and communications by Americans inside the US inevitably get caught in the net. If the FBI wanted to look into Trump's communications, it would either have to (through the criminal division) go to an Article III court and get a warrant or it would have to (through the national security division) go to a FISA court and get a FISA warrant. After Obama's executive order, the NSA could just sift through the information without a warrant at all, hand over interesting tidbits related to US persons of interest to the FBI (again without a warrant). In practice, the FBI could probably continue the sifting without a warrant. In theory, the FBI would need a warrant, but it would also have an easier time establishing probable cause of criminal activity or threat to national security.

Anybody who doesn't think the timing is suspicious is clearly biased. It may turn out to be wholly coincidental, but that's not the way to bet.
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:51 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump's allegation appears to be an intuitive bet that something fishy has been happening. I think he should have talked more softly and wielded a larger stick, but he made is decision. I don't think it was without some considerable weighing of the pros and cons.

I do believe that there has been an effort by the "deep state" to undermine Trump's Presidency. I also believe that this effort has been led by Obama loyalists and appointees who are still in government, or who are leaking from outside the government. Furthermore, the timing of Obama's executive order allowing the NSA to share raw data with other agencies is extremely suspicious. It's a hell of a coincidence, don't you think? And this comes on the heels of a New York Times article last week about Obama people leaving "breadcrumbs" about Trump's connections to Russia (e.g. lowering classification levels so that intelligence could be dispersed more widely and performing a kabuki dance in classified briefings, so that certain items would be archived).

My general impression is that Trump's ties to Russia are nothingburgers. He has the level and number of ties one would expect for a billionaire, particularly one who lives in New York City, which has a huge Russian population and is one of the global playgrounds for Russian oligarchs.

Whether or not Russia tried to help Trump win (and my feeling is that Russia was more concerned with hurting Hillary than actually helping Trump), I don't think Russia needed Trump's help, nor even cared very much about him. They probably saw him as a clown who didn't even know how to run a successful campaign let alone know how best to hack the DNC and spread damaging information.

The fact that the media has been ridiculously consumed with Trump's Russia ties since even before the election is almost entirely due to the fact that the mainstream media and anti-Trumpers (but I repeat myself) are hoping beyond hope that this is the loose thread which will unravel his administration. The leaking from inside the deep state is part of the same effort.

Trump's allegations, thinly-sourced as they are, at least provide some pushback. Just as his seemingly random comment about Sweden prompted a closer look at Sweden, his over-the-top allegations against Obama will also prompt a closer look. This is Trump calling the deep-staters' bluff. We'll see how it plays out. I for one am enjoying the spectacle. Meanwhile, Trump's dismantling of the administrative state proceeds apace ... All is well.
With supporters like you, then I am sure that Trump will be served quite well indeed.
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:51 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
In a letter from March 2016 his tax lawyers said:

As disclosed in your Executive Branch Personnel Financial Disclosure Report (OGE Form 278e), filed on July 15, 2015, you hold interests as the sole or principal owner in approximately 500 separate entities. These entities are collectively referred to and do business as The Trump Organization. These entities engage in hundreds of transactions, deals, and new enterprises every year. Because you operate these businesses almost exclusively through sole proprietorships and/or closely held partnerships, your personal federal income tax returns are inordinately large and complex for an individual.

To me that indicates Trumps tax returns would say far more about his businesses than is normal.
Do you know how income from a partnership is reported on an individual tax return?
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:52 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Wow, someone is drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon.....and it ain't Crossbow.
One day, I hope you'll make a substantive contribution to the discussion instead of just sniping from the sidelines.
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:54 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
With supporters like you, then I am sure that Trump will be served quite well indeed.
Well done at least. It's a cookbook!!!!11!!1
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:55 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Once again, you are confused. The NSA collects crap from all over the world, and communications by Americans inside the US inevitably get caught in the net. If the FBI wanted to look into Trump's communications, it would either have to (through the criminal division) go to an Article III court and get a warrant or it would have to (through the national security division) go to a FISA court and get a FISA warrant. After Obama's executive order, the NSA could just sift through the information without a warrant at all, hand over interesting tidbits related to US persons of interest to the FBI (again without a warrant). In practice, the FBI could probably continue the sifting without a warrant. In theory, the FBI would need a warrant, but it would also have an easier time establishing probable cause of criminal activity or threat to national security.

Anybody who doesn't think the timing is suspicious is clearly biased. It may turn out to be wholly coincidental, but that's not the way to bet.
Do you have anything that's not rooted in baseless assumptions (built on yet more baseless assumptions) and wishful thinking on your part?
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:57 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Do you have anything that's not rooted in baseless assumptions (built on yet more baseless assumptions) and wishful thinking on your part?
Do you think all of the Russia-Trump stuff is rooted in anything other than baseless assumptions? The Democrats and the mainstream media (but I repeat myself) have been screeching about that non-stop for about 8 months.
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Old 6th March 2017, 01:59 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Do you think all of the Russia-Trump stuff is rooted in anything other than baseless assumptions?
Wait, let me ask Michael Flynn...
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:02 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Wait, let me ask Michael Flynn...
Flynn did nothing wrong. He was fired for being so stupid that he didn't realize he did nothing wrong. Something similar happened to Martha Stewart actually.
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:03 PM   #332
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"an intuitive bet that something fishy has been happening"



The basis for the most far-fetched CTs, for sure.
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:12 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Flynn did nothing wrong. He was fired for being so stupid that he didn't realize he did nothing wrong. Something similar happened to Martha Stewart actually.
We that certainly justifies him as Trumps' choice for National Security Advisor. Nothing but the best and brightest in this cabinet. Was Sessions also this stupid?
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:12 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Flynn did nothing wrong. He was fired for being so stupid that he didn't realize he did nothing wrong.
He did nothing wrong in talking to the Russians and so lied about talking to the Russians, because there was totally nothing wrong at all with him talking with the Russians - that's why he had to lie about talking with the Russians, because there was nothing wrong whatsoever about the talking with the Russians that he lied about doing.

Then Trump, who hand-picked and hired him in the first place, fired him because he was stupid, not because he did anything wrong by talking to the Russians then lying about talking to the Russians which certainly wasn't wrong at all but was still something he felt the need to lie about.

All of this is the fault of the Mean Ol' Librul Media, who shouldn't be reporting on him lying about talking to the Russians but he totally wasn't wrong to talk to the Russians even though he felt the need to lie about talking to the Russians.

And that's why the Russian connections story is not rooted in anything other than baseless assertions.
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:20 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I don't know, I get a laugh out of it. I'll get an even bigger one if he calls for investigations into Chemtrails, 9/11, and the Apollo Missions.

But seriously, I am amazed at the number of Right-Wingers on this board that apparently aren't aware that Trump is living inside his own reality, fueled by Brietbart and Fox News, and so still swallow whatever he says hook, line, and sinker. Did his notoriousness for making stuff up throughout his campaign not clue you in a little bit that you need to wait several days and news cycles before biting?
As an outsider (Canadian) I was shocked that Americans voted for this clown as their leader. Although I live a bit too close for comfort if he really starts to go sideways, I quickly realized that there could be a couple of good years of comedy come out of the unfortunate election result. I expected the comedy to come primarily from Trump himself. I am pleased to see the substantial amount of entertainment contributed by his appointees and supporters.
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:21 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Flynn did nothing wrong. He was fired for being so stupid that he didn't realize he did nothing wrong. Something similar happened to Martha Stewart actually.
Wait. Let me ask Paul Manafort.
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:34 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Flynn did nothing wrong. He was fired for being so stupid that he didn't realize he did nothing wrong. Something similar happened to Martha Stewart actually.
I agree. There is nothing wrong with lying to the vice president.
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:42 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump's allegation appears to be an intuitive bet that something fishy has been happening. I think he should have talked more softly and wielded a larger stick, but he made is decision. I don't think it was without some considerable weighing of the pros and cons.
<snip>
I tried to continue reading after I stopped laughing, but i just couldn't...

23D Chess !!!11!
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Old 6th March 2017, 02:48 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump's allegation appears to be an intuitive bet that something fishy has been happening. I think he should have talked more softly and wielded a larger stick, but he made is decision. I don't think it was without some considerable weighing of the pros and cons.
Trump's brain don't work like that.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:01 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
Baron Munchausen?
That's a good one, actually.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:05 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Do you know how income from a partnership is reported on an individual tax return?
I do.

Via a Form K-1 from that partnership. That would show the amounts and general categories of income, expenses, interest paid and earned, depreciation and the like, but not much on the way of specific details.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:12 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Nope. It's the art of the deal. Why give up something for nothing? He didn't need to disclose his tax returns, so he didn't.
Not releasing them could have harmed his campaign : it didn't, but less abject campaigns by his opponents would have made something of it. Trump didn't know it wouldn't harm him.

What did he gain by not releasing them? Nothing, unless they would reveal some thing or things that would reflect badly on him. So he either took a risk for no gain - not an artful deal - or his tax-returns reflect negatively on him.

Quote:
I doubt there is anything particularly embarrassing in there except that he gives very little to charity, he has operating loss carryforwards, and he makes efficient use of the depreciation deduction on real estate.
Taking a risk for little return is not an artful deal. There has to be more to it than that, given Trump's excellence in the practice. That or he's just a twat, which would be consistent with his dealings in the casino business.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:23 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Not releasing them could have harmed his campaign : it didn't, but less abject campaigns by his opponents would have made something of it. Trump didn't know it wouldn't harm him.

What did he gain by not releasing them? Nothing, unless they would reveal some thing or things that would reflect badly on him. So he either took a risk for no gain - not an artful deal - or his tax-returns reflect negatively on him.

Taking a risk for little return is not an artful deal. There has to be more to it than that, given Trump's excellence in the practice. That or he's just a twat, which would be consistent with his dealings in the casino business.
Exactly, this is the guy who shrugged off 'pussygate'. If Sunmaster 14's suggestion about the likely contents is accurate just make them public, the speculation about what was in them was potentially far more damaging without the benefit of hindsight. Now Trump is in the Oval Office what possible excuse is there not to make them public? If they contain no evidence of financial ties to Russia he has nothing to lose, unless they contain something even worse of course.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:25 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump's allegation appears to be an intuitive bet that something fishy has been happening. I think he should have talked more softly and wielded a larger stick, but he made is decision. I don't think it was without some considerable weighing of the pros and cons.
Cool story bro!
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:28 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump's allegation appears to be an intuitive bet that something fishy has been happening.
This has to be the best way of saying made up a bunch of BS I have ever seen. I think I'm going to steal it.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:30 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Exactly, this is the guy who shrugged off 'pussygate'. If Sunmaster 14's suggestion about the likely contents is accurate just make them public, the speculation about what was in them was potentially far more damaging without the benefit of hindsight. Now Trump is in the Oval Office what possible excuse is there not to make them public? If they contain no evidence of financial ties to Russia he has nothing to lose, unless they contain something even worse of course.
Bearing in mind that what Trump thinks is "worse" is likely to be idiosyncratic. He would rather be thought to be a literal traitor to the country than have it be known that he's not actually a billionaire, but only a millionaire.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:39 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I do.

Via a Form K-1 from that partnership. That would show the amounts and general categories of income, expenses, interest paid and earned, depreciation and the like, but not much on the way of specific details.
Also shows your cost basis and percentage of ownership, iirc.

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Old 6th March 2017, 03:42 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Also shows your cost basis and percentage of ownership, iirc.
Cost basis I'd have to look, but percentage of ownership certainly.

Googled example here:

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Old 6th March 2017, 03:42 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Bearing in mind that what Trump thinks is "worse" is likely to be idiosyncratic. He would rather be thought to be a literal traitor to the country than have it be known that he's not actually a billionaire, but only a millionaire.
Entirely possible.
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Old 6th March 2017, 03:43 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Bearing in mind that what Trump thinks is "worse" is likely to be idiosyncratic. He would rather be thought to be a literal traitor to the country than have it be known that he's not actually a billionaire, but only a millionaire.
There is a great character on the TV show "Silicon Valley" whose entire ego originates from his "three comma" (American billion) wealth. At one point his net-worth temporarily declines to something like $980,000,000 and he is absolutely devastated! When another character tries to make him see how very wealthy he still is, in part by telling him that he is driving a Lotus sport car, he mournfully notes that the doors on the Lotus open sideways, not up as on the cars he used to be able to drive, and that therefore he is practically poverty stricken.

Of course it is very complicated to figure out what someone like Trump is really worth financially. Add to that the fact that his income is probably played down in his tax statements, directly opposite to his bombastic hyping of it in his positioning of his public image.
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Old 6th March 2017, 04:00 PM   #351
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If Trump were a drinking man I'd say the Scotch was bugged.
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Old 6th March 2017, 04:21 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
We'll head into the future and watch your fuhrer being frogged marched.

Ironic, as Trump is German and was praised with "Heil Trump!!!!" on Inauguration Day.
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Old 6th March 2017, 04:25 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Trump's brain don't work like that.
I'm gobsmacked that people actually believe that.
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Old 6th March 2017, 04:43 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
What did he gain by not releasing them? Nothing, unless they would reveal some thing or things that would reflect badly on him.

As someone pointed out at the time, Trump also claimed that his shooting of a random passerby would not lose him any support. Therefore, his refusal to release his tax returns would seem to indicate that he, himself, believes them to be significantly more damaging to his image than personally gunning down a random citizen in cold blood.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:11 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So far, that stupid, idiotic, greedy liar Trump has blamed Obama for:

the rise of ISIS,
the recent disruptions at Republican town hall meetings,
wire-tapping his telephones, and
several other things.

Therefore, I expect that it will not be too long before Trump forgets how old Obama is and then blames Obama for the Kennedy assassination.

That isn't all that far-fetched.

We already know Obama has gone back in time at least once so he could get his birth announcement into the Honolulu newspaper.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:12 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Flynn did nothing wrong. He was fired for being so stupid that he didn't realize he did nothing wrong. Something similar happened to Martha Stewart actually.
Do you realize that you are talking against yourself?

If you are actually correct, then that would mean that Trump must be so extremely stupid for having so much faith and trust in someone as stupid as Flynn.

Hopefully, there will not be too many more cases where Trump is so extremely stupid.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:13 PM   #357
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Quote:
The White House on Monday pushed back against FBI Director James Comey, with spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders saying President Donald Trump does not accept the assertion from Comey that former President Barack Obama did not order an illegal wiretap of Trump Tower.

White House senior adviser Kellyanne Conway, meanwhile, hinted that Trump may have intelligence backing up his explosive claim that Obama had tapped Trump’s phones in the lead-up to the November election. Like Trump, Conway did not provide any specific evidence.

When asked on “Fox & Friends” about how Trump knows his phones were tapped, Conway responded, “He’s the president of the United States. He has information and intelligence that the rest of us do not, and that’s the way it should be for presidents.”

...

Chaffetz also acknowledged that as president, Trump has the authority to prove his allegation true by declassifying the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court order that presumably would have been needed to authorize a wiretap on Trump Tower. If Trump’s allegation is true, Chaffetz said, “the paper trail should be there.”

“Look, it’s a very serious allegation. The president has at his fingertips tens of billions of dollars in intelligence apparatus,” he said. “I’ve got to believe — I think he might have something there, but if not, we're going to find out.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...esponse-235719

And what if it's complete nonsense? Will they publicly rebuke Trump? Maybe censure him or even threaten to impeach him for slandering a former president simply to divert attention away from his own highly questionable behavior?

So far the "checks and balances" that Americans fawn over so much have seriously failed to hold Trump to account for his incredibly toxic leadership.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:20 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Not if there isn't anything incriminating in those tax returns. And, frankly, I doubt very much that there is. It's not like the IRS doesn't go over a billionaire's tax returns with a fine-toothed comb.

He could have been lying to the American people about the state of his finances and who he is involved with without any evidence of criminal wrongdoing in his returns. He's done enough bragging about his wealth, and even based a fair amount of his campaign on those claims that it would be interesting to see if that was as much hot air as the rest of his brags.

At this point (post election), it probably wouldn't matter much, except maybe for the embarrassment, and he seems pretty immune to that.

It would still be interesting to find out why he was so reticent about releasing them, instead of making them public like all the other candidates for the presidency have for decades.

Inquiring minds want to know.

And he did say he was going to do it after the election was over.

Just another Trump lie, I suppose.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:28 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
In other words, he made up a bunch of ******** without evidence. And the Heil Trumpers are dutifully trying to scrape up anything they can to try and show that Trump is right, even if what they find not only doesn't support Trump's claims, it had nothing even remotely to do with Trump's claims.

What you're doing is somewhere around the same level as those Palin fans who tried to edit Paul Revere's Wikipedia entry so that it would look like Palin wasn't talking out of her ass.



Now, is this part of the plan of the shape-shifting alien lizards to enslave us all, or in addition to it?



"The Emperor's new clothes, as thin as they are..."
Did you happen to catch Mark Levin on Fox and Friends as he laid out 7 articles from various liberal news sources? All the articles talked about the supposed Russian connection and all were clearly information gotten from wire taps.

Do you deny that he was wired tapped?
Obama may have ordered it, he may have not, but the tapping seems to have happened.
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Old 6th March 2017, 05:29 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...esponse-235719

And what if it's complete nonsense? Will they publicly rebuke Trump?
No.



Quote:
Maybe censure him or even threaten to impeach him for slandering a former president simply to divert attention away from his own highly questionable behavior?
The answer is no.


Quote:
So far the "checks and balances" that Americans fawn over so much have seriously failed to hold Trump to account for his incredibly toxic leadership.
Now you're on the right track. That's been the plan all along.
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