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Old 20th March 2017, 09:15 AM   #441
ProgrammingGodJordan
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
See my earlier post for the use of rectal excavation in the construction of artificial profundity.
Your prior post was absent non worthless content.

Still, you need see DeepLearningBook by Bengio et al.
(Where the categories you claimed I made up, are discussed briefly there)




Footnote:
At some point, everything is probably made up.
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:09 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Your prior post was absent non worthless content.

Still, you need see DeepLearningBook by Bengio et al.
(Where the categories you claimed I made up, are discussed briefly there)

Footnote:
At some point, everything is probably made up.
Good god, PGJ, do you read this stuff through before you hit "submit". This is the worst form of buggerised English it's possible to think of. Just speak normally.
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:12 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
See the deep learning book by Yoshua Bengio et al, for overview of computational neuroscience vs deep learning.
Firstly, link to it if you want anyone to take a look. Secondly, I previously asked you where this "deep learning" notion came from, and you answered facetiously and sneeringly, rather than give this reference. Why was that?
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:15 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Your prior post was absent non worthless content.
Then perhaps you should reevaluate your concept of worth.

Quote:
Still, you need see DeepLearningBook by Bengio et al.
No I don't. I already use deep learning. It has no resemblance at all with how the brain works, nor is it meant to have any.

Quote:
Footnote:
At some point, everything is probably made up.
An old philosophical position known as solipsism, itself derived from the words "solo" and "priapism."

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Secondly, I previously asked you where this "deep learning" notion came from, and you answered facetiously and sneeringly, rather than give this reference.
Do you mean the concept itself, or its comparison to the human brain? I can teal deer you on it's history if you'd like, it's really a fascinating algorithm.

But if you meant the latter, I believe PGJ is falling into the common woo trap of juxtaposing independent concepts on the basis of trivial relationships. Same reason people like to think everything with the word "quantum" is somehow intextricably intertwined with everything else that uses it.

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Old 20th March 2017, 11:35 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Firstly, link to it if you want anyone to take a look. Secondly, I previously asked you where this "deep learning" notion came from, and you answered facetiously and sneeringly, rather than give this reference. Why was that?
After you accused me of making up categories, I answered with a link in reply 430.
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Old 20th March 2017, 11:39 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Then perhaps you should reevaluate your concept of worth.


No I don't. I already use deep learning. It has no resemblance at all with how the brain works, nor is it meant to have any.


An old philosophical position known as solipsism, itself derived from the words "solo" and "priapism."


Do you mean the concept itself, or its comparison to the human brain? I can teal deer you on it's history if you'd like, it's really a fascinating algorithm.

But if you meant the latter, I believe PGJ is falling into the common woo trap of juxtaposing independent concepts on the basis of trivial relationships. Same reason people like to think everything with the word "quantum" is somehow intextricably intertwined with everything else that uses it.
This prior quote applies:

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Well, there are two classes of brain based learning:

(1) Deep learning
(a) This began by using hints from neuroscience.
(b) However, deep learning benefits from paradigms outside of neuroscience.
(c) This is because deep learning experts don't know enough about the brain, to get much performance.



(2) Computational neuroscience
(a) Stricter versions take a path to as closely as possible, attempt to imitate brain neurobiology, unlike Deep Learning. (example is Markram's project)
(b) Mixture of computational neuroscience and deep learning both attempts to imitate the brain, while adapting deep learning tasks completion. (Example IBM)



.
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:12 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
This prior quote applies:
No it does not. It is wrong.
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:31 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
It's something he made up.
But did not make up well!!!!!!!
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Old 20th March 2017, 02:09 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
@Reality Check
@ProgrammingGodJordan what looks like fantasies about "super manifolds" on an inaccessible google drive looks like a waste of time.
Especially since you seem to be arguing form a stance of ignorance:
20 March 2017 ProgrammingGodJordan: Do you know that a computer simulation is not a human being? (i.e. computer simulations do not have the speed of brains)
20 March 2017 ProgrammingGodJordan: Cite a Moore's law explicitly for computer simulations.

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Old 20th March 2017, 02:18 PM   #450
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For people who are interested in the actual manifold hypothesis here is an nice blog article: Neural Networks, Manifolds, and Topology.
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Old 20th March 2017, 07:33 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
No it does not. It is wrong.
What in particular is "wrong" from reply 446?
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Old 20th March 2017, 07:35 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
For people who are interested in the actual manifold hypothesis here is an nice blog article: Neural Networks, Manifolds, and Topology.
You pointed out a reference used in my supermanifold hypothesis (via deep learning).

To get an even better understanding of manifolds with respect to deep learning, also see DeepLearningBook by Yoshua Bengio et al.



Footnote:
You can view the pdf without downloading it here: https://www.academia.edu/31926696/Su...Deep_Learning_
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:15 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
You pointed out a reference used in my supermanifold hypothesis (via deep learning).

To get an even better understanding of manifolds with respect to deep learning, also see DeepLearningBook by Yoshua Bengio et al.



Footnote:
You can view the pdf without downloading it here: https://www.academia.edu/31926696/Su...Deep_Learning_
I must concede, your thread title is apropos.
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:17 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I must concede, your thread title is apropos.
Indeed
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:20 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Indeed
You agree your approach is naive. OK.
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:32 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You agree your approach is naive. OK.
Yes, as indicated in the title: 'Super Artificial Intelligence, a naive approach.."
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Old 21st March 2017, 01:54 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Yes, as indicated in the title: 'Super Artificial Intelligence, a naive approach.."
Great. We agree that your approach is naive. Now, why should anyone give any credence to such naivete?
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:26 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Indeed
He said it...
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Old 21st March 2017, 06:58 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
What in particular is "wrong" from reply 446?
Almost everything. Let's start with the first sentence:

Quote:
Well, there are two classes of brain based learning:
No there are not. There are either zero or lots and lots of them, depending on whether by "brain based learning" you mean algorithms that operate in the same manner as the brain, or algorithms that people say operate in the same manner as the brain.

If you mean the former, there are none, although the Human Brain Project (the current offshoot of Markram's work, he's since dived back into biology) gets half credit for trying to do it right instead of half-assing it long enough to put out a press release.

But if you meant people who half-ass it enough to put out a press release about how their system is "inspired by" the human brain, you'll have a line out the door. And all of them are crap.

Deep learning is in neither of these categories. Any comparisons to brain function are red herrings generated by people who don't understand why it is what it is or how it does what it do.


For the peanut gallery, the book PGJ keeps referencing is online here, and appears to lack all the woo that keeps cropping up in his posts. A relevant snippet from the introduction:
Quote:
While the kinds of neural networks used for machine learning have sometimes been used to understand brain function (Hinton and Shallice, 1991), they are generally not designed to be realistic models of biological function.
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Old 21st March 2017, 09:59 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Great. We agree that your approach is naive. Now, why should anyone give any credence to such naivete?
Perhaps...
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Old 21st March 2017, 10:07 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Almost everything. Let's start with the first sentence:



No there are not. There are either zero or lots and lots of them, depending on whether by "brain based learning" you mean algorithms that operate in the same manner as the brain, or algorithms that people say operate in the same manner as the brain.

If you mean the former, there are none, although the Human Brain Project (the current offshoot of Markram's work, he's since dived back into biology) gets half credit for trying to do it right instead of half-assing it long enough to put out a press release.

But if you meant people who half-ass it enough to put out a press release about how their system is "inspired by" the human brain, you'll have a line out the door. And all of them are crap.

Deep learning is in neither of these categories. Any comparisons to brain function are red herrings generated by people who don't understand why it is what it is or how it does what it do.


For the peanut gallery, the book PGJ keeps referencing is online here, and appears to lack all the woo that keeps cropping up in his posts. A relevant snippet from the introduction:
It is ironical that you read that statement from the DeepLEarningBook, but still wrote the garbage before the quote you cited.


Here are some other snippets you conveniently appeared to avoid:

(I)
Deep Learning Book:

(1)
Quote:
The original Cognitron (Fukushima, 1975) introduced a more complicated version that was highly inspired by our knowledge of brain function

(2)
Quote:
Also, while neuroscience has successfully inspired several neural network architectures, we do not yet know enough about biological learning for neuroscience to offer much guidance for the learning algorithms we use to train these architectures



(II)

My prior quote via reply #421:


Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan
(1) Deep learning
(a) This ---------->began <---------- by using hints from neuroscience.
(b) However, deep learning benefits from paradigms outside of neuroscience.
(c) This is because deep learning experts don't know enough about the brain, to get much performance.



FOOTNOTE:
So, from the deep learning book or otherwise, we observe that there are two main classes of brain based learning, Deep learning, (which is loosely based on brain), and Computational Neuroscience, (which attempts to strictly adhere to brain structure)

I had long mentioned this via reply #421.
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Old 21st March 2017, 10:17 AM   #462
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Does anyone else think that this thread could have been so much more interesting if it had been "A General Discussion of Artificial intelligence" rather than "humans gods computers 10^15 =10^18 neural networks reference 1985 left brain right brain deep learning I-know-better-than-you-twerps"?
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Old 21st March 2017, 10:29 AM   #463
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Does anyone else think that this thread could have been so much more interesting if it had been "A General Discussion of Artificial intelligence" rather than "humans gods computers 10^15 =10^18 neural networks reference 1985 left brain right brain deep learning I-know-better-than-you-twerps"?
The thread could probably be interesting to others here, perhaps if they were a different type of crowd...


Anyway, I don't expect many crowds to be intrigued by my Supermanifold hypothesis:
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Old 21st March 2017, 11:29 AM   #464
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Euclideon? Is that the name of a mecha I've never heard of, or are you referring to the Australian software company?
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Old 21st March 2017, 11:33 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Euclideon? Is that the name of a mecha I've never heard of, or are you referring to the Australian software company?
That's just the Jamaican pronunciation, you racist
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Old 21st March 2017, 11:48 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Anyway, I don't expect many crowds to be intrigued by my Supermanifold hypothesis:


Only 4 "some" in the sentence? Aren't you risking too much precision in your math language?
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Old 21st March 2017, 11:52 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Euclideon? Is that the name of a mecha I've never heard of, or are you referring to the Australian software company?
Thanks, typo purged.

I tend to typo "euclideon" (graphics engine) for euclidean (geometry)



"Euclideon" is an "unlimited" detail graphics engine:

Euclideon main video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

Another euclideon demon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVsyB938ovY

My comment on euclideon a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5hg9VfbyYg
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Old 21st March 2017, 11:54 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by wea View Post
http://i.imgur.com/RA3GJle.png

Only 4 "some" in the sentence? Aren't you risking too much precision in your math language?

This is deep learning language.
Deep learning may hint at math paradigms such as manifolds.

Anyway, alot of data is encoded in those small lines.
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Old 21st March 2017, 12:12 PM   #469
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More yellow doesn't make things more right.
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Old 21st March 2017, 12:15 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
More yellow doesn't make things more right.
Indeed...
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Old 21st March 2017, 01:47 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
You can view the pdf...
I will not download a PDF on a non-science web site that wants me to sign up. ETA: What I can read is incoherent math word salad.

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Old 21st March 2017, 02:00 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Euclideon? Is that the name of a mecha I've never heard of, or are you referring to the Australian software company?
You could say that...
See reply 467.
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:02 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
We can't read your D: drive.
Wrong link copied.

You can view Supermanifold_Hypothesis pdf below, without sign up or download.

https://www.academia.edu/31926696/Su...Deep_Learning_
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:03 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by batpuncher View Post
70 mW for 46 billion SOPS is rather quite impressive, are you sure you're not missing an important bit of info from that link?
What might that be?
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:04 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Wrong link copied.

You can view Supermanifold_Hypothesis pdf below, without sign up or download.

https://www.academia.edu/31926696/Su...Deep_Learning_
Odd mistake for a self proclaimed "programming god".
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:05 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Odd mistake for a self proclaimed "programming god".
Indeed..
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Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 21st March 2017 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:09 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....yes, not least because the simulation was "only" running at 1542 times slower than realtime
Yes, while still achieving state of the art results in deep learning tasks...
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:10 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Why not look at something more recent and clearer?
http://p9.hostingprod.com/@modha.org...mputing_2.html

This gives 1.05x1012 synapses in 2016. 256 million per chip x 4096 cores
Yes, ibm appears to try to mix computational neuroscience and deep learning.
The chip appears to be somewhat universal.
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Old 21st March 2017, 02:18 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
We can now view a couple of paragraphs of incoherent math word salad on a web site. So what?
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