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Old 15th March 2017, 10:49 PM   #1
Graham2001
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Teacher quits after primary school students threaten to behead her

This is a story that has been simmering on and off in the Australian media for some time. If it is as reported, then it is pretty disturbing.

Quote:
Frightened teachers at a Sydney primary school have revealed students are showing signs of extreme radicalisation at a young age, saying they have been traumatised by threats of beheading and other violent behaviour.

Students as young as in Year 5 are making the threats and pressuring peers into reading the Koran at Punchbowl Public School in Sydney's southwest, the Daily Telegraph has reported.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/3466...-family/#page1
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Old 15th March 2017, 11:04 PM   #2
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I believe these kids have the right to be just as Islamic and backward as they want to be. As long as they do it in an Islamic country.

The fact that a single Muslim has been permitted into the west since 9/11 (or prior to it, for that matter) is suicidally, inexplicably stupid.
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Old 15th March 2017, 11:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
This is a story that has been simmering on and off in the Australian media for some time. If it is as reported, then it is pretty disturbing.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/3466...-family/#page1
I believe it came from the right wing UK media. Hyperbole springs to mind.
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Old 16th March 2017, 03:59 AM   #4
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Yeah I'd like to see some further reports before having an opinion.
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Old 16th March 2017, 04:41 AM   #5
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We used to sing this in school in the seventies:



Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers - we have broken all the rules
We ramrocked the offices and hung the principal
March on, third grade, march on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I hid behind her door with a loaded .44
And the teacher don't teach no more!
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I believe these kids have the right to be just as Islamic and backward as they want to be. As long as they do it in an Islamic country.
I agree: people can be as stupid as they want in a country that's not my own. That includes white Christians.

Quote:
The fact that a single Muslim has been permitted into the west since 9/11 (or prior to it, for that matter) is suicidally, inexplicably stupid.
All Muslims are potential terrorists, of course. Not like whites Christians, who are never terrorists.
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I believe these kids have the right to be just as Islamic and backward as they want to be. As long as they do it in an Islamic country.

The fact that a single Muslim has been permitted into the west since 9/11 (or prior to it, for that matter) is suicidally, inexplicably stupid.
Wow, the ignorance in this post is amazing to behold.
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Wow, the ignorance in this post is amazing to behold.
I think it would shock Skeptic Tank to learn that there are sizable groups of people of solid "White" European stock who are Muslims and have been so for generatations. There even a war about that back in the early 90's.
I think his attitude toward Muslims is not based on theological grounds or Islam's shortcomings as a religion but that most Muslims have brown skins......

Last edited by dudalb; 16th March 2017 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Wow, the ignorance in this post is amazing to behold.
Agreed, but I expected no better given the poster's history here.
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:18 PM   #10
dudalb
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
We used to sing this in school in the seventies:



Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers - we have broken all the rules
We ramrocked the offices and hung the principal
March on, third grade, march on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I hid behind her door with a loaded .44
And the teacher don't teach no more!
So did I......ah, that brings back memories.
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:25 PM   #11
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Seems to me it's up to the teacher to educate them that in the West, Sharia does not count.

Actually, isn't it Sharia that is racist, sexist, and theocratic?

Now, how to educate them that in America, our laws are the rule of the land.
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:27 PM   #12
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This story doesn't have enough fact to make me break out the lynching rope and I'm too far away to do anything anyhow.

ST:

Having worked in a few ME countries, I can tell you that there are some followers of Muhammad that are stand up guys and have their stuff together. They aren't looking to slit throats.

There are self described Catholics in my own family that are low life scumbags and would likely take a head if they could make a few bucks for booze and drugs.

Nobody has a monopoly on virtue.
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:38 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
We used to sing this in school in the seventies:



Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers - we have broken all the rules
We ramrocked the offices and hung the principal
March on, third grade, march on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I hid behind her door with a loaded .44
And the teacher don't teach no more!
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So did I......ah, that brings back memories.
Yeah, but we're white and normal. Just kids being kids. These are Mooslims!!!???? They're coming to eat our brains!!!
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Wow, the ignorance in this post is amazing to behold.
I think it is unwarranted kindness on your part to attribute that to ignorance.
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
We used to sing this in school in the seventies:



Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers - we have broken all the rules
We ramrocked the offices and hung the principal
March on, third grade, march on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I hid behind her door with a loaded .44
And the teacher don't teach no more!
Piker!!! We were doing that one in the 50's. And better (i.e. worse!!!!!!)
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think it is unwarranted kindness on your part to attribute that to ignorance.
Well and truly noted!!!!!!!
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:31 PM   #17
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In the Netherlands, people like Wilders love to repeat the claim that many teachers dare not teach the Holocaust due to pressure from Muslim students. That claim is only founded on one survey among 300-something teachers, of which only one teacher said he refrained from teaching the Holocaust. Oh, and the students who pressured him were not Muslims, but Neo-Nazis.

So, colour me skeptical about this story as well.
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:57 PM   #18
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This all could've easily been avoided if she would've learned her place and shut her mouth, put on a hijab and allowed these disadvantaged youth to hang their flag and pray to the one true God. Some people just need to be taught respect.
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Old 16th March 2017, 09:49 PM   #19
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It's just an Australian thing. We used to have a popular TV presenter who regularly threatened to "rip peoples bloody arms off".

The show he hosted won a major Award.

Norm
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Old 16th March 2017, 11:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
It's just an Australian thing. We used to have a popular TV presenter who regularly threatened to "rip peoples bloody arms off".

The show he hosted won a major Award.

Norm
Huh? That was Auntie Jack...........a comedy series of the early 70s rather than a TV presenter. Unless some TV presenter has since copied the expression, perhaps.
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Old 16th March 2017, 11:59 PM   #21
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It's a different world, Australia. We've posited this before, but it's from being upside down and the blood rushing to their heads.

I refer, of course, to the commercial that precedes the news article. Would anyone in Europe run that ad?
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Old 17th March 2017, 12:21 AM   #22
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Yes, the Sydney Daily Telegraph. A Murdoch rag that dedicates itself to ****-stirring from the far right wing, and is less reliable for journalistic values than, say, the UK Daily Mail and the gone and unlamented News Of The World. If used in a cage, most parrots would refuse to waste their poop on it.

So let's assume that the initial report falls into the same category as headlines like "B-29 Bomber Found On Moon".
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Old 17th March 2017, 12:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yeah I'd like to see some further reports before having an opinion.
Your wish is my command
No cases of 'religiously motivated violence' at Punchbowl Public: NSW Education


Quote:
Barrister and Muslim community advocate Bilal Rauf believes "there are some underlying aspects to (Mrs A’s) claims which appear, on the surface, questionable".

"I think there is an element of Punchbowl being unduly targeted,” Mr Rauf told SBS.
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Old 17th March 2017, 02:59 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Seems to me it's up to the teacher to educate them that in the West, Sharia does not count.

Actually, isn't it Sharia that is racist, sexist, and theocratic?

Now, how to educate them that in America, our laws are the rule of the land.
Why would the teacher want to do that when the article claimed that it happened in Australia?
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Old 17th March 2017, 05:06 AM   #25
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Seems to me it's up to the teacher to educate them that in the West, Sharia does not count.

Actually, isn't it Sharia that is racist, sexist, and theocratic?

Now, how to educate them that in America, our laws are the rule of the land.
Do you have a suburb called Punchbowl in the city of Sydney in the state of New South Wales in the USA?

What a coincidence - so do we!

ETA: Ninja'd!
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Old 17th March 2017, 07:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Yes, the Sydney Daily Telegraph. A Murdoch rag that dedicates itself to ****-stirring from the far right wing, and is less reliable for journalistic values than, say, the UK Daily Mail and the gone and unlamented News Of The World. If used in a cage, most parrots would refuse to waste their poop on it.

So let's assume that the initial report falls into the same category as headlines like "B-29 Bomber Found On Moon".
They've been apparently trying to stir up outrage against this one school for years.

Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Quote:
Mrs A was also upset that only halal food was served at some school events.

"Ultimately at the end of the day we're a Christian country, we can put that chair aside and say this is a secular nation,” she said.

“We should not be having one culture or one race dominating the other. I mean it's a secular school, a secular nation, so there shouldn't be any halal in any school whatsoever."
Hmmm, I'm starting to suspect her "complaints" were motivated by something else entirely.

I wonder if she felt that way about Punchbowl Public School celebrating Christmas (their Facebook page even features some rather cute pictures of younger students getting an in-classroom visit from Santa Claus).
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Old 17th March 2017, 12:56 PM   #27
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I'm wondering if she thinks that eating Halal foods will magically turn you Muslim.
Other than some things like a prohibition on alcohol, there are a lot of similarities between Halal and Kosher, and a lot of ordinary foods could already be either. It's just a matter of getting certification and slapping on a logo. The company I work for makes cleaning products that are used to clean equipment in food processing plants, and a number of our products are certified for use in Kosher and Halal facilities.
"We don't use any animal products, and our ingredients are either synthetic or plant based."
"Okay. You're good to go. Here's your certificate."

(There's an issue of Ashkenazi Jews and corn-derived chemicals like fatty acid esters during Passover, but that's a special case.)
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Old 17th March 2017, 01:27 PM   #28
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And her complaint is apparently not even that they served only halal food all the time or anything like that, just that they served it sometimes, at certain special events.
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Old 17th March 2017, 08:46 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I'm wondering if she thinks that eating Halal foods will magically turn you Muslim.
If it is of any help, I can faithfully report that for all of the Pastrami sandwiches I ate as a kid, I did not turn Jewish. (but I sure had some good sandwiches. Dad loved pastrami, and passed that love on to me).
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Old 18th March 2017, 05:09 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
This all could've easily been avoided if she would've learned her place and shut her mouth, put on a hijab and allowed these disadvantaged youth to hang their flag and pray to the one true God. Some people just need to be taught respect.
How many schools where you live require that teachers do that at the demand of five year old Quran fanatics? I think it would be more sensible to call the parents of such children in for a chat, if indeed they are numerous enough to be a problem.
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Old 18th March 2017, 05:25 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I'm wondering if she thinks that eating Halal foods will magically turn you Muslim.
I don't know about her but I would not eat halal meat for two reasons. Firstly, because there's no guarantee the animals were killed humanely. Sometimes stunning is used, other times the animal has its throat slashed and takes minutes to die whilst hung upside down. In the same way I won't buy meat from any source unless I'm certain of its origins, I would definitely not entertain halal. Ironically, in common with Muslims I don't eat pork, on account of I think the vast majority of pig farming is cruel.

Secondly, I make the choice that I don't want religion to play a part in my life. The Muslim thinks it's important for a prayer to be said when the animal is killed and that's fine, I respect their right to hold that opinion; I think it's important for no prayer to be said, and people must respect my opinion in the same way.
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Old 18th March 2017, 05:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
If it is of any help, I can faithfully report that for all of the Pastrami sandwiches I ate as a kid, I did not turn Jewish. (but I sure had some good sandwiches. Dad loved pastrami, and passed that love on to me).
There are times I'd get on a plane and fly to NYC just for a hot pastrami with mustard on rye, with a dill pickle. About as close to divine as sandwiches get. Does bring to mind the strenuous efforts of an ex-drinker to make a perfect non-alcoholic Bloody Mary, though, since pastrami is as close to pork as you can get with another meat. I think somebody did some cheating way back when and decided he/she needed to relive the crime in his/her dreams.... Pastrami. Yeah, man, divine... and sinful good.

ETA: To remain topical: this was one news report I felt could be safely ignored. Toddlers. Beheading. Sure. About as believable and dangerous as marauding baby ducks.

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Old 18th March 2017, 05:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I don't know about her but I would not eat halal meat for two reasons. Firstly, because there's no guarantee the animals were killed humanely. Sometimes stunning is used, other times the animal has its throat slashed and takes minutes to die whilst hung upside down. In the same way I won't buy meat from any source unless I'm certain of its origins, I would definitely not entertain halal. Ironically, in common with Muslims I don't eat pork, on account of I think the vast majority of pig farming is cruel.

Secondly, I make the choice that I don't want religion to play a part in my life. The Muslim thinks it's important for a prayer to be said when the animal is killed and that's fine, I respect their right to hold that opinion; I think it's important for no prayer to be said, and people must respect my opinion in the same way.
Out of interest, if a prayer has been said over an animal then slaughtered for meat, and you are not religious, so what? A prayer is nothing to a non religious person. For my part I don't know how many things I eat, or vehicles I travel in, or buildings I enter, have been prayed over by religious people. And I don't care. Why is it important one way or another? Religious people pray over anything they consider to be significant. Why should it be important for non religious people to avoid places or things that have been subjected to this custom? Prayer does nothing to improve - or to impair - these things.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:14 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Out of interest, if a prayer has been said over an animal then slaughtered for meat, and you are not religious, so what? A prayer is nothing to a non religious person. For my part I don't know how many things I eat, or vehicles I travel in, or buildings I enter, have been prayed over by religious people. And I don't care. Why is it important one way or another? Religious people pray over anything they consider to be significant. Why should it be important for non religious people to avoid places or things that have been subjected to this custom? Prayer does nothing to improve - or to impair - these things.
I'm telling you that it's important to me. That's a fact, not something that can be debated. If you think you can convince me that my own beliefs are irrelevant whilst the beliefs of others are to be respected you're on a hiding to nothing. I prefer not to encourage religious practice, directly or otherwise. You may think differently, as is your right, but remember that your opinion affects only you.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:37 AM   #35
Craig B
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I'm telling you that it's important to me. That's a fact, not something that can be debated. If you think you can convince me that my own beliefs are irrelevant whilst the beliefs of others are to be respected you're on a hiding to nothing. I prefer not to encourage religious practice, directly or otherwise. You may think differently, as is your right, but remember that your opinion affects only you.
So you are not merely non-religious, but are concerned to suppress even the most mundane and unexceptionable religious practices; and you are unable to debate this stance.

I had not realised you take such a view, and I will say no more on the subject, except that I am relieved that it is not a typical standpoint in this age when tolerance and understanding are valued.

On occasions in the past I have been told by religious believers, when I have been in poor health, that they have prayed for my recovery. In such cases I thank them for their thoughtfulness and good wishes; and I am glad I feel under no ideological obligation to disparage their friendly intentions on the grounds that I attribute no efficacy to their prayers.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:44 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So you are not merely non-religious, but are concerned to suppress even the most mundane and unexceptionable religious practices; and you are unable to debate this stance.
What on earth are you talking about? My choice not to eat halal is 'suppressing religious practices'? What a load of nonsense.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I had not realised you take such a view, and I will say no more on the subject, except that I am relieved that it is not a typical standpoint in this age when tolerance and understanding are valued.
Yes, I'm quite surprised that anybody would protest at the right of someone else to choose what food to eat. Luckily most people don't have such authoritarian, intolerant and intrusive views.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
On occasions in the past I have been told by religious believers, when I have been in poor health, that they have prayed for my recovery. In such cases I thank them for their thoughtfulness and good wishes; and I am glad I feel under no ideological obligation to disparage their friendly intentions on the grounds that I attribute no efficacy to their prayers.
Well done. If that had any bearing on the topic I'd be tempted to discuss it further, but having people pray for you is unrelated to actively supporting a religious practice. 'I had not realised' this concept would confuse you.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:46 AM   #37
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Kosher meat is slaughtered the exact same way as halal meat. The only difference is the particular prayer that's said during the process.

EDIT: That's why I'm always darkly amused when people like Pamela Geller want to ban halal slaughter methods.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:54 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Kosher meat is slaughtered the exact same way as halal meat. The only difference is the particular prayer that's said during the process.
I wouldn't eat Kosher either.
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Old 18th March 2017, 06:56 AM   #39
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I bless this thread
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Old 18th March 2017, 07:00 AM   #40
Craig B
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
... Well done. If that had any bearing on the topic I'd be tempted to discuss it further, but having people pray for you is unrelated to actively supporting a religious practice. 'I had not realised' this concept would confuse you.
People praying for other people is unrelated to religious practice, but people praying before they kill a chicken is
religious practice
that you
prefer not to encourage, directly or otherwise.
You had not realised that this would confuse me? That merely adds another mystery to the many conundrums embedded in your philosophical meditations.
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