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Old 20th March 2017, 03:45 AM   #81
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Something else everyone has known.

In addition to all of that they also have to be impossible to go around.

I'm amused by the supporters of building a wall at our border with Mexico, who seem unaware that the U.S. has other borders, too.

We can't even protect the shoreline of southern Florida. How do they expect us to blockade all the rest of the country's shores?
That is why we are gutting the coast guard to give obvious holes for the needed immigrants.
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Old 20th March 2017, 04:52 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
BUt think how worthless the land will be when it is on the Mexican side of the wall. That is going to seriously lower its value and will be reflected in the amount offered.
I would think the opportunities for moneymaking would arise quite quickly on such land. For example, a wine cellar. A long, narrow, underground wine cellar. One could charge a fee and accept visitors to tour it. Such a wine cellar would be very interesting, so interesting that I'm sure a lot of people would want to tour it before you even the put wine in there.
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Old 20th March 2017, 06:11 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I would think the opportunities for moneymaking would arise quite quickly on such land. For example, a wine cellar. A long, narrow, underground wine cellar. One could charge a fee and accept visitors to tour it. Such a wine cellar would be very interesting, so interesting that I'm sure a lot of people would want to tour it before you even the put wine in there.
I think you'd have to make it accessible from either end of the cellar, yes?
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Old 20th March 2017, 06:42 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I would think the opportunities for moneymaking would arise quite quickly on such land. For example, a wine cellar. A long, narrow, underground wine cellar. One could charge a fee and accept visitors to tour it. Such a wine cellar would be very interesting, so interesting that I'm sure a lot of people would want to tour it before you even the put wine in there.
Not too helpful if you end up still on the wrong side of the wall. We are seeding these areas to mexico.

For example there is a golf course in Texas that is in american territory but entirely on the other side of the wall.

See what happened to the value of this golf course as an example.

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/fe...e-out-business
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Old 20th March 2017, 06:52 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I think you'd have to make it accessible from either end of the cellar, yes?
Of course, the wine bottles will require ventilation.
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Old 20th March 2017, 07:48 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not too helpful if you end up still on the wrong side of the wall. We are seeding these areas to mexico.

For example there is a golf course in Texas that is in american territory but entirely on the other side of the wall.

See what happened to the value of this golf course as an example.

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/fe...e-out-business
Not a Trump course? Who cares?
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:17 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I don't see the use of eminent domain as easily partitioning into a left versus right political division. Many classical liberals in the 1950s and 1960s favored it as part of large social improvement projects. But later many regretted the results and the impact on individuals (particularly when the most impacted were typically the poor and minorities). Conversely the right consists both of people such as Trump, who favor it to allow large and money-making private and tax-generating governmental projects, and people who are libertarians who opposite it on philosophical grounds.

I think this is one of the issues in which people's views primarily depend on who's ox is being gored.
This is especially true in the Kelo case where much of the drive on the pro-eminent domain side was promoted through the right leaning republican Governor of CT and basically all of the legal aid for the anti-eminent domain side came from left leaning organizations.
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:45 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Who's paying for this wall? According to Trump it's supposed to be the Mexicans but that ain't happening. Why did Trump lie about that?
Just because the US will pay for it doesn't mean Mexico won't pay some or all.

Besides if it turns out they don't, that would be more of a failure on his part than a lie?

The left throws around the word lie like they do the word racism.
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Old 20th March 2017, 08:54 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Just because the US will pay for it doesn't mean Mexico won't pay some or all.

Besides if it turns out they don't, that would be more of a failure on his part than a lie?

The left throws around the word lie like they do the word racism.
We're paying for the wall, in the event it actually happens.

Period.

Your fuhrer lied to you and is playing you like a fiddle. Not exactly a difficult task to be sure, but it is what's happening.
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Old 20th March 2017, 09:41 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
We're paying for the wall, in the event it actually happens.

Period.

Your fuhrer lied to you and is playing you like a fiddle. Not exactly a difficult task to be sure, but it is what's happening.
A know I'm causing you to post like this, for that I apologise!
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Old 20th March 2017, 09:44 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I suppose that's the point, your side just throws these outrageous claims out and the dupes on the left just regurgitate them. there simply is no way we on the right can dialog with your side.
What outrageous claims? Claims is plural, so give me a list.
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:21 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
A know I'm causing you to post like this, for that I apologise!
Try again.

More English?
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:48 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Its called eminent domain, it won't take years.
Yes, it can.
Disputes over what amount to "Fair Market Value" can takes years to resolve.
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:49 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
You think taking tribal lands is a breeze? This isn't the 19th century anymore.
Damn Indians. If they don't like the US Government, they should go back where they came from......
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:56 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes, it can.
Disputes over what amount to "Fair Market Value" can takes years to resolve.
Yes, and the more owners, the more separate negotiations are needed.

Although that maths might be a bit complex for some Trump supporters.
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Old 20th March 2017, 01:43 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Just because the US will pay for it doesn't mean Mexico won't pay some or all.

Trump had thought that Mexico would pay for the wall, but Trump was seriously mistaken and now Trump knows it, which is why he has admitted that we are going to pay for an expensive, but ineffective wall. In reality, it's not a wall at all because it is a fence.
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Old 20th March 2017, 01:47 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Although that maths might be a bit complex for some Trump supporters.
Such as:

2 + 2 = 7


That explains a lot in regard to Trump supporters.
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Old 20th March 2017, 06:32 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Considering the events of the past week (three breaches), I don't think many people would have a problem with that wall being built around the White House instead.
If it would keep Trump out, Mexico would gladly pay for it.
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Old 21st March 2017, 05:27 PM   #99
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Mod WarningThe topic of this thread is the building or not building of a wall between Mexico and the US.

Ok?
Posted By:jsfisher
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Old 21st March 2017, 05:51 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Just because the US will pay for it doesn't mean Mexico won't pay some or all.

Mexico will not pay for the wall and has even threaten to drop its purchase of American wheat and buy its wheat elsewhere, which would be bad news for American wheat farmers.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 03:51 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Mexico will not pay for the wall and has even threaten to drop its purchase of American wheat and buy its wheat elsewhere, which would be bad news for American wheat farmers.

They can always sell it to our buddies in Russia.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 06:14 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
It's unbelievably complex. Nobody knew the US would have to forcibly acquire land in order to build his wall.


Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yeah sure, got a link for these "millions"

You do realise we're talking about "property owners"?
I find it amusing that right wingers, who are usually the ones to complain that taxation is theft, are so unfazed by the idea of stealing people's lands when it's to build a completely useless and unnecessary wall to keep the for'ners out.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 06:16 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'll just point out once again what everyone has known about walls from Babylonia onward
Jericho. Come on, man.

Quote:
they only work if they're manned, every foot of them. Humans are very good at climbing, and everything that has ever been built has also been climbed.
They're also good at digging. And driving on roads.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 06:41 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Jericho. Come on, man.


I'm selling options on rams horns if you're interested. The next big thing for Mexican 'tourists'.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 06:52 AM   #105
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Never mind.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 07:36 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Maybe some of them landowners don't want to sell:

Trump border wall: Texans receiving letters about their land
Quote:
Yvette Salinas, a Texan whose ailing mother owns a small parcel of land with her siblings near the Rio Grande was informed by the “Declaration of Taking” letter sent by DOJ that her 1.2 acres was worth $2,900, according to a story in the Texas Observer.
I don't know why she is complaining. It could have cost her a lot more than $2,900 to transfer her land to the government.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:26 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Jericho. Come on, man.
I was referring to antiquitous historical wall builders, not making a reference to an overtired mythology.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:30 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Its called eminent domain, it won't take years.


Apparently the lawyers are still involved in cases from the previous wall building exercise ten years ago...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.47ae0e5db323
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:18 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post



I find it amusing that right wingers, who are usually the ones to complain that taxation is theft, are so unfazed by the idea of stealing people's lands when it's to build a completely useless and unnecessary wall to keep the for'ners out.
That's because you're woefully ignorant of what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:20 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because you're woefully ignorant of what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.
Please illuminate us.....
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:20 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I was referring to antiquitous historical wall builders, not making a reference to an overtired mythology.
There was an actual defensive wall at Jericho, TM.

Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because you're woefully ignorant of what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.
Educate me.

I fully expect you to find an excuse not to do so.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:28 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Quote:
Who's paying for this wall? According to Trump it's supposed to be the Mexicans but that ain't happening. Why did Trump lie about that?
Just because the US will pay for it doesn't mean Mexico won't pay some or all.

Besides if it turns out they don't, that would be more of a failure on his part than a lie?
It was pretty obvious to the vast majority of rational thinkers that making Mexico pay for the wall was a non-starter, a dead issue. Something that was never going to happen.

So you have 2 options:
- Trump lied

or:

- Trump is an idiot

So which do you think it is?
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:30 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
It was pretty obvious to the vast majority of rational thinkers that making Mexico pay for the wall was a non-starter, a dead issue. Something that was never going to happen.

So you have 2 options:
- Trump lied

or

- Trump is an idiot

So which do you think it is?
There is a third option

He's both
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:39 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because you're woefully ignorant of what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.
So what IS the fantasy version of what the government is supposed to do?
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:40 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Yeah, that is not a wall though, it is a fence that looks real easy to shimmy up.
Here's the problem though...

We really don't know what Trump's "wall" will look like. All through the campaign, he greatly changed the details... changing the height and cost. At other points there was talk that it wouldn't be a physical wall at some places, but either fencing, or even just some electronic monitoring.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/1...certain-areas/

I'm also wondering why you think the fencing shown would be any easier to climb than a wall, Yeah, you can wrap your arms around the portions of the fence that you see, but its not like people have magnetic fingers to climb up.

Quote:
Why is CNN comparing this length of fence with a "wall"? It's bull, that article is a great argument for a wall, not against it.

And is 9000 breaches in 6 years really that many for a 654 mile length of fence, especially considering how many get through in total? What is that, about 3 people per day for a 600+ mile fence? Not bad if you ask me. Room for improvement though.
Actually, the article doesn't go into detail about what exactly those 'breaches' were, but a single breach incident could lead to more than 1 person crossing the border.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:53 AM   #116
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Why don't they just put it up on Kickstarter or some other fundraising site? The people who want the wall can pay for it.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:43 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
That's because you're woefully ignorant of what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do.
If Trump is any example, it seems to be to lie about everything and anything, as often as possible.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 02:29 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Here's the problem though...

We really don't know what Trump's "wall" will look like. All through the campaign, he greatly changed the details... changing the height and cost. At other points there was talk that it wouldn't be a physical wall at some places, but either fencing, or even just some electronic monitoring.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/1...certain-areas/

I'm also wondering why you think the fencing shown would be any easier to climb than a wall, Yeah, you can wrap your arms around the portions of the fence that you see, but its not like people have magnetic fingers to climb up.
Not necessary.

People climbing fences like the one in the link:

Guys with drugs

Girls Climbing Fence There is a series of images for this

More

Dozens at a time


Yes, I do think these fences can be improved a lot!


Quote:
Actually, the article doesn't go into detail about what exactly those 'breaches' were, but a single breach incident could lead to more than 1 person crossing the border.
True, but this is merely evidence that the fence design in the article is utterly stupid. The article shows this easily scalable fence and uses it as an example for a barrier being ineffective. A proper barrier would not be ineffective.

The article, as a demonstration of how ineffective a barrier would be, is a failure.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 04:37 PM   #119
dudalb
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Keep drinking the kook aid, pal.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 04:40 PM   #120
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
There was an actual defensive wall at Jericho, TM.



Educate me.

I fully expect you to find an excuse not to do so.
Steal land of course.
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