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Tags Amber Guyger , Dallas incidents , murder cases , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents , Texas cases

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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:24 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Levely? Really?
Really, really.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If you say that he was sitting at the counter eating cereal and did not run at her, you are stating as fact sever things at once that are not on the record.
Ah, there we have it. I don't think he was sitting at the counter, nor do I think there's evidence he was. I think he was sitting on his couch, and put his cereal down when he heard the noise. The bowl, in the video, wasn't on the counter. The best I could tell it was on a fabric covered...something. I want to say an ottoman maybe? The video I watched had a rather close up view of the bowl so I couldn't see the surroundings.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Was he not said to have been watching football earlier?
Well...I mean. You can eat cereal and watch football at the same time.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If he was sitting at the counter, he would seemed to have moved quite a bit to where his body lay.
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think it is just as likely he was watching the game and jumped up at the ruckus at his door. I sure would have. But it sounds more Dewey-eyed to claim he was just eating his bweakfast and was a sitting duck.
He was a sitting duck, and I would argue he was the very definition of a sitting duck. Relaxed in his house when someone bursts in and shoots at him. You can't get much more sitting duck than that.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not calling you to the carpet, man. Just noticing when details are cherry picked for effect.
I'm not cherry picking anything. I'm looking at the evidence available and coming to a conclusion I feel is logical.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:25 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Your eta: you got it. I think she should be up on murder 2., plain and simple. But every torqued detail, every fleshed out narrative, every spun representation, is a step towards pitchforks and nooses instead of reason.
Because we don't agree that "all the details" change things. In fact many of us find them frankly insane.

We also don't agree with putting this much effort into finding and discussing those details in this one case.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:58 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
The point is, why are you asking how Jean's activities are being considered when it's of no relevance?

Dave

ETA: Think I see what you mean; are people betraying their anti-Guyger bias by showing pro-Jean bias. Still, hard to see how bias can make Guyger's actions much worse than they were. Any verdict short of negligent homicide would be a travesty.
Of course Jeans' actions are relevant. In as much as it can be deduced what they actually were.
Also relavent are what the laws are in the Municipality wherein the acts took place.
As well as the state of mind of the people involved.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:01 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Jean is not on trial, and his right to be present in his own home is not in question. If he had, on Guyger forcing his door open, taken a gun and emptied the magazine into her chest, he would not be guilty of a crime under Texas law (though a biased jury might find him guilty of one). It matters not one jot how innocent his activities were; Guyger had no reasonable cause to break into his apartment and shoot him dead.

Dave
You are using the term "forced" when describing how the door opened.
What do you mean by that?

BTW, I agree that, had Jean shot Guyger, it would probably have been legal. Why do you think it would be?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:02 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Really, really.
Looking at something levely means being level headed. Even and impartial and all.

Quote:
Ah, there we have it. I don't think he was sitting at the counter, nor do I think there's evidence he was. I think he was sitting on his couch...
Here's the part that threw me, then:

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
He was sitting at his counter eating a ******* bowl of cereal. He wasn't "coming for" her at all....
I think everything she did was criminally inexcusable. Murder freaking 2. But I also think Distracted1 made a fair point in questioning how much was being plugged into the narrative. Its not apologetics to acknowledge a small factual assumption or error. As a human, I'd like to see her in jail as a murderer. As a skeptic, I'd like to see rational discussion, even in irrelevant details. On everything consequential, we are in agreement I think
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:03 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Jean is not on trial, and his right to be present in his own home is not in question. If he had, on Guyger forcing his door open, taken a gun and emptied the magazine into her chest, he would not be guilty of a crime under Texas law (though a biased jury might find him guilty of one). It matters not one jot how innocent his activities were; Guyger had no reasonable cause to break into his apartment and shoot him dead.

Dave
Indeed. He could have been doing rails of cocaine off the back of a underage sex slave while taking a break from building a dirty bomb to sell to ISIS and it wouldn't matter. He was in his home and Guyger was unlawfully entering and then unlawfully killed him. He would have had every right to confront her and use violence to disarm, incapacitate, apprehend, and/or remove her from the home (within reason).

This is a bit of thorny legal question, almost like something from a law school exam, because it may be the case that Guyger honestly thought she was in the right. Maybe that will change what exact criminal charge she is guilty of, depending on how those laws are defined and how they deal with the intent of the criminal, but the killing was a crime. Suggesting that this is a civil matter and not criminal is absurd. She is guilty of something, and her defense lawyers job is to try to convince a jury that what she is guilty of is the least severe crime possible given the facts.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:07 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because we don't agree that "all the details" change things. In fact many of us find them frankly insane.

We also don't agree with putting this much effort into finding and discussing those details in this one case.
I made a short comment agreeing with Distracted1's observation that details were getting shifty. He was right. I really don't think it warrants all this discussion.

She murdered an innocent man, entirely through her own actions. Embelleshment and add-ons are really not needed on this puppy. The facts stand alone.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:44 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Indeed. He could have been doing rails of cocaine off the back of a underage sex slave while taking a break from building a dirty bomb to sell to ISIS and it wouldn't matter. He was in his home and Guyger was unlawfully entering and then unlawfully killed him. He would have had every right to confront her and use violence to disarm, incapacitate, apprehend, and/or remove her from the home (within reason).

This is a bit of thorny legal question, almost like something from a law school exam, because it may be the case that Guyger honestly thought she was in the right. Maybe that will change what exact criminal charge she is guilty of, depending on how those laws are defined and how they deal with the intent of the criminal, but the killing was a crime. Suggesting that this is a civil matter and not criminal is absurd. She is guilty of something, and her defense lawyers job is to try to convince a jury that what she is guilty of is the least severe crime possible given the facts.
As this progresses, you may find yourself backtracking that opinion.

If it is demonstrated that "mistake of fact" can be exculpatory. And you start noticing that even the limited sample size this forum permits generates a number of people (as it already has) who find her mistake a reasonable one. You may notice that the discussion swings back to how Guyger decided to shoot (an action that may be entirely legal in Texas- without a duty to retreat)
When this occurs you might notice a number of posters asserting that Jean was "just sitting there eating cereal" or some such. At this point, Jeans' actions will all of a sudden become relavent again to some of the posters currently asserting that his actions have no relavence.

Like "whack a mole"
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:55 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
As this progresses, you may find yourself backtracking that opinion.

If it is demonstrated that "mistake of fact" can be exculpatory. And you start noticing that even the limited sample size this forum permits generates a number of people (as it already has) who find her mistake a reasonable one. You may notice that the discussion swings back to how Guyger decided to shoot (an action that may be entirely legal in Texas- without a duty to retreat)
When this occurs you might notice a number of posters asserting that Jean was "just sitting there eating cereal" or some such. At this point, Jeans' actions will all of a sudden become relavent again to some of the posters currently asserting that his actions have no relavence.

Like "whack a mole"
What I am hoping is that while mistake of fact may excuse her entering the wrong apartment, it will not be found to excuse reckless disregard of life. As mentioned upthread, a maintenance or other emergency worker could have been there, as well as an intruder. She showed utter disregard for other human lives no matter where she thought she was. Actually, not just disregard. She didn't give a fat rats ass who they were. They just didn't deserve to live. **** her.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:55 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
As this progresses, you may find yourself backtracking that opinion.

If it is demonstrated that "mistake of fact" can be exculpatory. And you start noticing that even the limited sample size this forum permits generates a number of people (as it already has) who find her mistake a reasonable one. You may notice that the discussion swings back to how Guyger decided to shoot (an action that may be entirely legal in Texas- without a duty to retreat)
When this occurs you might notice a number of posters asserting that Jean was "just sitting there eating cereal" or some such. At this point, Jeans' actions will all of a sudden become relavent again to some of the posters currently asserting that his actions have no relavence.

Like "whack a mole"
Exculpatory is a bold claim. Her incorrect perception of the situation may be a mitigating factor in her guilt, but I don't think it will be exculpatory. She may catch a lower level charge, something akin to manslaughter, rather than murder, but outright exoneration seems like long odds to me.

The only person in this scenario who had an unambiguous right to use force in self defense without a duty to retreat is the victim who was killed.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:08 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
As this progresses, you may find yourself backtracking that opinion.

If it is demonstrated that "mistake of fact" can be exculpatory. And you start noticing that even the limited sample size this forum permits generates a number of people (as it already has) who find her mistake a reasonable one. You may notice that the discussion swings back to how Guyger decided to shoot (an action that may be entirely legal in Texas- without a duty to retreat)
When this occurs you might notice a number of posters asserting that Jean was "just sitting there eating cereal" or some such. At this point, Jeans' actions will all of a sudden become relavent again to some of the posters currently asserting that his actions have no relavence.

Like "whack a mole"
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE WAS DOING IN HIS OWN HOME.

He wasn't a threat to her. She had no reason to think he was.

This goddamn utterly insane "Well she thought the situation was totally different" nonsense is racist apologetic crap.

This chick is gonna walk because some lawyer is going to sell the jury on the exact same apologetics people here are using.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:10 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Looking at something levely means being level headed. Even and impartial and all.
Right, but levely isn't a word that I have ever seen before. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist in the English language, but either way I get it.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Here's the part that threw me, then:

I think everything she did was criminally inexcusable. Murder freaking 2. But I also think Distracted1 made a fair point in questioning how much was being plugged into the narrative. Its not apologetics to acknowledge a small factual assumption or error. As a human, I'd like to see her in jail as a murderer. As a skeptic, I'd like to see rational discussion, even in irrelevant details. On everything consequential, we are in agreement I think
Noted, I phrased that before I had looked at the CNN video and was working off of memory.

The discussion I have been having isn't emotionally based. My point is that you guys seem to dismiss everything up to the point of shooting as if it didn't exist. Then you say, "Well, she saw a man in her apartment, thought it was a robber, and shot him." If anything that fits more into the definition of cherry picking than anything else.

She is responsible for all of her actions. She's responsible for where she parked, for going in an apartment that wasn't hers, for approaching that apartment at all, for opening a closed door, for not seeing the numerous clues that should have pointed her to the fact it wasn't her apartment.

Then, to go even further, according to reports she turned the lights on, and without even bothering to take a mental inventory, repeatedly shot at a man that was in his own home.

I get it's easy to dismiss all of that as if it's a side note but it isn't.

ETA: In fact, she even claimed that the door was ajar before she walked into it. Which means she had the keen awareness to notice the door was ajar but didn't even pause to call out before going into her apartment when she was under the impression that someone was already in it. Negligent homicide.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:11 AM   #213
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Still waiting on an answer on what crimes wouldn't be invalidated by just going "LOL I thought the situation was different."
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:13 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Right, but levely isn't a word that I have ever seen before. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist in the English language, but either way I get it.
It's not even a word, actually, which makes Thermal's incredulous response to your request even more silly.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:13 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's not even a word, actually, which makes Thermal's incredulous response to your request even more silly.
But it's a perfect little hijack to keep the threat going so more seeds can be planted about why this chick should walk.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:19 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But it's a perfect little hijack to keep the threat going so more seeds can be planted about why this chick should walk.
Thermal's been pretty clear that he thinks she shouldn't, so I don't think you're being fair here. I just think he should've consulted a dictionary first to make sure the word existed when it was obvious no one understood what the hell he was talking about.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:20 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's not even a word, actually, which makes Thermal's incredulous response to your request even more silly.
Proper word or (evidently) not, could you glean its pretty clear meaning in context?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:23 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But it's a perfect little hijack to keep the threat going so more seeds can be planted about why this chick should walk.
Dude, not only should she not walk, she should be strung up. You seriously have me confused with another poster for like a ******* year now
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:30 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Dude, not only should she not walk, she should be strung up. You seriously have me confused with another poster for like a ******* year now
If you don't agree with me on every single detail then you pretty much think Guyger is Princess Dianna. We've been over this before.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:30 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's not even a word, actually, which makes Thermal's incredulous response to your request even more silly.
Thank God, I thought I was losing my mind. Which is something that regularly happens in my world.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Thermal's been pretty clear that he thinks she shouldn't, so I don't think you're being fair here. I just think he should've consulted a dictionary first to make sure the word existed when it was obvious no one understood what the hell he was talking about.
I agree that Thermal thinks she deserves some form of punishment. I think that the conversation right now boils down to what level of punishment it requires.

I also believe that there are no excuses for what she did, and the "stand your ground" law is completely and entirely irrelevant. She had no need to stand her ground because it wasn't her ground to stand on.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:31 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Right, but levely isn't a word that I have ever seen before. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist in the English language, but either way I get it.



Noted, I phrased that before I had looked at the CNN video and was working off of memory.

The discussion I have been having isn't emotionally based. My point is that you guys seem to dismiss everything up to the point of shooting as if it didn't exist. Then you say, "Well, she saw a man in her apartment, thought it was a robber, and shot him." If anything that fits more into the definition of cherry picking than anything else.

She is responsible for all of her actions. She's responsible for where she parked, for going in an apartment that wasn't hers, for approaching that apartment at all, for opening a closed door, for not seeing the numerous clues that should have pointed her to the fact it wasn't her apartment.

Then, to go even further, according to reports she turned the lights on, and without even bothering to take a mental inventory, repeatedly shot at a man that was in his own home.

I get it's easy to dismiss all of that as if it's a side note but it isn't.

ETA: In fact, she even claimed that the door was ajar before she walked into it. Which means she had the keen awareness to notice the door was ajar but didn't even pause to call out before going into her apartment when she was under the impression that someone was already in it. Negligent homicide.
Do you have a link to the description of events that has her turning the lights on before confronting Jean?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:32 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Proper word or (evidently) not, could you glean its pretty clear meaning in context?
Could you have been bothered to look it up, once people doubted it was actually a word, rather than squabble about it?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:34 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Right, but levely isn't a word that I have ever seen before. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist in the English language, but either way I get it.



Noted, I phrased that before I had looked at the CNN video and was working off of memory.

The discussion I have been having isn't emotionally based. My point is that you guys seem to dismiss everything up to the point of shooting as if it didn't exist. Then you say, "Well, she saw a man in her apartment, thought it was a robber, and shot him." If anything that fits more into the definition of cherry picking than anything else.

She is responsible for all of her actions. She's responsible for where she parked, for going in an apartment that wasn't hers, for approaching that apartment at all, for opening a closed door, for not seeing the numerous clues that should have pointed her to the fact it wasn't her apartment.

Then, to go even further, according to reports she turned the lights on, and without even bothering to take a mental inventory, repeatedly shot at a man that was in his own home.

I get it's easy to dismiss all of that as if it's a side note but it isn't.

ETA: In fact, she even claimed that the door was ajar before she walked into it. Which means she had the keen awareness to notice the door was ajar but didn't even pause to call out before going into her apartment when she was under the impression that someone was already in it. Negligent homicide.
What kind of Alice in Wonderland trip are you guys on with this "you guys who dismiss everything"? I'm more adamant then most about not excusing a god dam ed thing
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:34 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Still waiting on an answer on what crimes wouldn't be invalidated by just going "LOL I thought the situation was different."
Can't actually think of one.
If the mistake is a reasonable one. And no other motives apparent. And the act would not be criminal if the perpetrator was not mistaken.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:36 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Do you have a link to the description of events that has her turning the lights on before confronting Jean?
I'll see if I can track it down, I've read about 6 articles today. I might be wrong, and I'll concede it rather than even bother to look for it.

Imagine I didn't even say it.

ETA: Does that completely and entirely change the charges if the lights were on or off?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:40 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What kind of Alice in Wonderland trip are you guys on with this "you guys who dismiss everything"? I'm more adamant then most about not excusing a god dam ed thing
The only points I've seen you contest are post her entering the door. If I'm wrong, point out where I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Can't actually think of one.
If the mistake is a reasonable one. And no other motives apparent. And the act would not be criminal if the perpetrator was not mistaken.
That is one of the strangest thing I've ever heard. You just opened the door for every single criminal to get off free without any issues at all. I could walk into anyone's house I wanted to, shoot them in the face, and say, "I reasonably thought this was my house."

After all, I didn't know the people. No other motive for me to do it is apparent.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:40 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Can't actually think of one.
1. That's goddamn functionally insane.

Quote:
If the mistake is a reasonable one. And no other motives apparent. And the act would not be criminal if the perpetrator was not mistaken.

2. That what pray tell is a "unreasonable mistake" if blundering into the wrong apartment and shooting the unarmed person sitting in their doesn't qualify?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:41 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Could you have been bothered to look it up, once people doubted it was actually a word, rather than squabble about it?
Truth be told, I did doubt it for a second but my spell check didn't object. Also, having a level gaze or being level headed is commonplace enough language that an adverb structure shouldn't be so difficult. Lastly, I didn't give a ****. I thought plague311 was kidding when he said 'whatever that means', and quickly clarified and dropped it.

Its "you guys" that are squabbling about it. Pedantic much?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:48 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Proper word or (evidently) not, could you glean its pretty clear meaning in context?
Well, here's the full context:

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Was it the only bowl not in the sink? I didn't catch the inventory on that.

I mean, it doesn't matter one way or the other. I see sidebars like that as a good test of objectivity. Are we projecting the most innocent activities we can on Jean, with confirmation bias, or looking levely?
Without your explanation I would struggle a bit and ask for clarification.

ETA: And by the way, the word you're looking for is "levelly" with two Ls. For some reason Google didn't catch that when I looked earlier. As I was posting this one I thought that, if it meant what you say it meant, it should have two Ls and I searched that. So apologies for saying it's a made-up word, though it's certainly not one I encountered before, to my knowledge.

Levelly: In a level or even manner.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:50 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The only points I've seen you contest are post her entering the door. If I'm wrong, point out where I'm wrong.
On the earlier voluminous thread, I discussed every element brought up, from driving to the wrong floor to working a long day to what people should reasonably expect in apartment living, to the red door mat and deadbolt structure and everything else brought up. On part one, I believe I was one of the more vocal posters. Please don't ask me to provide dozens of quotes for you when they are rather easy to spot. On virtually any page.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:00 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What I am hoping is that while mistake of fact may excuse her entering the wrong apartment, it will not be found to excuse reckless disregard of life. As mentioned upthread, a maintenance or other emergency worker could have been there, as well as an intruder. She showed utter disregard for other human lives no matter where she thought she was. Actually, not just disregard. She didn't give a fat rats ass who they were. They just didn't deserve to live. **** her.
I agree.
No duty to retreat is a stupid law.
Perhaps Jeans' death will serve as an example of just how stupid it is.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:01 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, here's the full context:



Without your explanation I would struggle a bit and ask for clarification.

ETA: And by the way, the word you're looking for is "levelly" with two Ls. For some reason Google didn't catch that when I looked earlier. As I was posting this one I thought that, if it meant what you say it meant, it should have two Ls and I searched that. So apologies for saying it's a made-up word, though it's certainly not one I encountered before, to my knowledge.

Levelly: In a level or even manner.
So we have like four posters lambasting me over not doubling an L?

Tis a silly place
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:01 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'll see if I can track it down, I've read about 6 articles today. I might be wrong, and I'll concede it rather than even bother to look for it.

Imagine I didn't even say it.

ETA: Does that completely and entirely change the charges if the lights were on or off?
If the circumstances are different, then they are different. A is A.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:06 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The only points I've seen you contest are post her entering the door. If I'm wrong, point out where I'm wrong.



That is one of the strangest thing I've ever heard. You just opened the door for every single criminal to get off free without any issues at all. I could walk into anyone's house I wanted to, shoot them in the face, and say, "I reasonably thought this was my house."

After all, I didn't know the people. No other motive for me to do it is apparent.
That post would serve as evidence of your criminal intent at your trial.

You would also need to commit your crime in a State that has both "no duty to retreat, or Castle doctrine" as well as the legal concept of "mistake of fact".

The staged mistake would, of course, need to be convincing.

Do you believe Guyger intended to go to the wrong door?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:08 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
On the earlier voluminous thread, I discussed every element brought up, from driving to the wrong floor to working a long day to what people should reasonably expect in apartment living, to the red door mat and deadbolt structure and everything else brought up. On part one, I believe I was one of the more vocal posters. Please don't ask me to provide dozens of quotes for you when they are rather easy to spot. On virtually any page.
No desire to ask you to provide stuff for me as long as you don't expect me to have seen those posts. I read the first few pages when it started, but only came back to this one when it got bumped.

That being said, again, there was a big lit up wall sign that had the apartment number on it and all.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:12 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
That post would serve as evidence of your criminal intent at your trial.
Jesus. Obviously I hadn't made this post in the circumstance I had mentioned. Also, rumor has it they allowed her to clean up her social media during this entire thing as well. So you never really know, do you?

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You would also need to commit your crime in a State that has both "no duty to retreat, or Castle doctrine" as well as the legal concept of "mistake of fact".

The staged mistake would, of course, need to be convincing.

Do you believe Guyger intended to go to the wrong door?
My argument is negligence, so her intent doesn't matter to me.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:16 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So we have like four posters lambasting me over not doubling an L?
I blame it on Google.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:20 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No desire to ask you to provide stuff for me as long as you don't expect me to have seen those posts. I read the first few pages when it started, but only came back to this one when it got bumped.

That being said, again, there was a big lit up wall sign that had the apartment number on it and all.
It is an interesting discussion that is actually covering some of the same ground for the umpteenth time.
You might wish to read the last thread.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:25 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No desire to ask you to provide stuff for me as long as you don't expect me to have seen those posts. I read the first few pages when it started, but only came back to this one when it got bumped.

That being said, again, there was a big lit up wall sign that had the apartment number on it and all.
Yes, and we discussed that and much, much more. In agonizing detail. I personally don't think the lit up number matters. Do you glance at your house numbers when you go to the door? Doubly so if lit up with other lights around it? The big bold red mat is more problematic for me, as well as potted plants in the hall on one floor and not the other, IIRC.

But it all boils down to shooting in the dark in a multi family unit for me. She did not own the property, and Apartment personal have the right to be there unannounced for service, especially emergency work. Even if she was in her own apartment, she was a freaking ghoul to pop off at someone (or something, like her dog) that she couldn't even see. Cops are trained to apprehend criminals without shooting them, I believe, so she had formal training in NOT panic shooting like a frightened civilian. **** her. With a chainsaw.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:30 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
<snip>
Things people should ******* know -----> Where they live LoL. I mean, seriously?
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
<snip>
Entering someone else's apartment isn't "a mistake". It's negligent by the very literal definition of that word.

Do you live in an apartment block or a house? I'm going to repeat an earlier post because you seem to have missed it.

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
I'm going to disagree, from personal experience.

I live in a multi-floor apartment block. The floors are not like a suburban neighbourhood where houses generally have distinct shapes and paint jobs, different lawns and ornaments, different fences, etc. Every floor is decorated exactly the same: the carpet and colour scheme are identical to other floors. Every door is in the same location and has the same general look to it.

I have on more than one occasion left the elevator at the wrong floor, walked all the way to where my apartment is on my floor—ignoring obvious clues like a door having or not having a wreath or hanger of some sort on it ("Oh, it looks like the owner changed it")—only to stop at what I thought was my door and pause because something "seemed wrong" about it. Perhaps it had a different lock, or scratches and small gouges on the door frame looked wrong. Only then did I actually look at the apartment number, prominently visible on all the doors, and determine I was on the wrong floor. (Why didn't I look before? Because I thought I was on the correct floor!)

The real kicker? The elevator announces the floor number as the doors open. I missed even that obvious clue. And I wasn't stupid out of my mind tired; I was either thinking about something or listening to a podcast on my phone.
I'll add that I likely would notice an unexpected red mat in front of what I thought was my door, pause to ask why it was there, and then realise I was on the wrong floor. In all the years I've lived in this block no one has ever gifted me a door mat.

Quote:
The apartment numbers are lit up, she parked on the wrong floor, she went into a place that wasn't hers when the door was closed, she didn't do any due diligence and with no regard started shooting at someone.

Every. *******. Thing. She. Did. Was. Wrong.
This part I agree with.
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