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Old 12th April 2021, 11:10 PM   #121
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Bigotry. Don't you find it odd that Franklin found Germans to be "swarthy" when Germans are no more 'swarthy' than the average Englishman that Franklin thought so superior? Why use a term for 'dark' that was not actually physically accurate? Darkness is psychologically representative of something negative.
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wow it was expressed in explicitly racist terms but isn't racism because it doesn't fit your definitions of race.
"Wow", yourself. Is racism somehow worse than bigotry on a sliding scale of what you can get outraged over? How does "my" definition of race come into this? How was the "German race" a different "race" from that of the "English race" that Franklin was comparing them to? You do realize that the English of his time, much more so than today, were largely descended from the Germanic tribes of the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes , and the Danes, don't you?

I just found Franklin's use of "swarthy", meaning "dark", to indicate something negative interesting. You incorrectly inferred something quite different than intended so you can untwist your knickers now.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 12th April 2021 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 13th April 2021, 01:55 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"Wow", yourself. Is racism somehow worse than bigotry on a sliding scale of what you can get outraged over? How does "my" definition of race come into this? How was the "German race" a different "race" from that of the "English race" that Franklin was comparing them to? You do realize that the English of his time, much more so than today, were largely descended from the Germanic tribes of the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes , and the Danes, don't you?

I just found Franklin's use of "swarthy", meaning "dark", to indicate something negative interesting. You incorrectly inferred something quite different than intended so you can untwist your knickers now.
In fact, the Royal family are descended from Germans.

Ever heard of Lord Louis Mountbatten... Admiral of the Fleet, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma, last Viceroy (and first Governor General) of India, uncle of Prince Philip? Well, "Mountbatten" sounds very English doesn't it, but don't be fooled - it was a name-change, the original family name was "Battenburg". As for Lizzy Windsor, that was a name change too - they were Sax-Coburgs before 17 July 1917
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Old 13th April 2021, 06:24 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In fact, the Royal family are descended from Germans.

Ever heard of Lord Louis Mountbatten... Admiral of the Fleet, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma, last Viceroy (and first Governor General) of India, uncle of Prince Philip? Well, "Mountbatten" sounds very English doesn't it, but don't be fooled - it was a name-change, the original family name was "Battenburg Battenberg". As for Lizzy Windsor, that was a name change too - they were Sax-Coburgs Saxe-Coburg and Gotha before 17 July 1917
Nitpick.
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Old 13th April 2021, 06:40 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In fact, the Royal family are descended from Germans.

Ever heard of Lord Louis Mountbatten... Admiral of the Fleet, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma, last Viceroy (and first Governor General) of India, uncle of Prince Philip? Well, "Mountbatten" sounds very English doesn't it, but don't be fooled - it was a name-change, the original family name was "Battenburg". As for Lizzy Windsor, that was a name change too - they were Sax-Coburgs before 17 July 1917


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Old 13th April 2021, 06:53 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wow was he presceint being worried about hessians in 1753!

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/...ter-collinson/

Thanks.

I've already been corrected about that, though.

So we know that Ben Franklin was already bigoted against German settlers years before before the Brits brought in their Hessian auxiliaries.

I'm sure they didn't help his attitude.
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Old 13th April 2021, 06:55 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Thanks.

I've already been corrected about that, though.

So we know that Ben Franklin was already bigoted against German settlers years before before the Brits brought in their Hessian auxiliaries.

I'm sure they didn't help his attitude.
We also learned that as there is no racial difference between germans and slavs the whole nazi contempt of them was totally not racist too.
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:04 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
We also learned that as there is no racial difference between germans and slavs the whole nazi contempt of them was totally not racist too.

Not to mention the Irish. The British attitude towards them was totally not racist. So their treatment was totally okay.
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:07 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Not to mention the Irish. The British attitude towards them was totally not racist. So their treatment was totally okay.
But of course fortunately race is a universal and not at all subjective and culturally defined.
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:18 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Thanks.

I've already been corrected about that, though.

So we know that Ben Franklin was already bigoted against German settlers years before before the Brits brought in their Hessian auxiliaries.

I'm sure they didn't help his attitude.
According to some he softened his attitude a bit towards Germans after long discussions with Quakers, it took years, however. Probably never overcame the bigotry fully for sure. Some also note that he tried publishing a German newspaper in the 1730ís but it was a flop since he didnít have a German typeface.

Sadly, Franklins words were used to support the anti-hun hysteria of WW1.
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Old 13th April 2021, 12:19 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In fact, the Royal family are descended from Germans.

Ever heard of Lord Louis Mountbatten... Admiral of the Fleet, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma, last Viceroy (and first Governor General) of India, uncle of Prince Philip? Well, "Mountbatten" sounds very English doesn't it, but don't be fooled - it was a name-change, the original family name was "Battenburg". As for Lizzy Windsor, that was a name change too - they were Sax-Coburgs before 17 July 1917
All and Englishman is is a German who could swim...
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Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
All and Englishman is is a German who could swim...
Can't even get away with that given where the Saxons and the Angles were from! Not to mention those that founded the Danelaw, Even the Normans weren't originally French.
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Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Mikemcc View Post
Can't even get away with that given where the Saxons and the Angles were from! Not to mention those that founded the Danelaw, Even the Normans weren't originally French.

Was anyone?
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Old Today, 01:03 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Was anyone?
EVERYONE'S French on Bastille Day!

I set my cell ring to the Marseillaise back when the GOP were having conniption fits over something I can't even recall anymore and started calling French Fries "Freedom Fries" just to flip them the metaphorical bird. Never bothered to change it back.
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Old Today, 06:55 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
EVERYONE'S French on Bastille Day!

I set my cell ring to the Marseillaise back when the GOP were having conniption fits over something I can't even recall anymore and started calling French Fries "Freedom Fries" just to flip them the metaphorical bird. Never bothered to change it back.
French opposition in the UN Security Council to the Iraq war (thanks W!).
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