Merged: Covid-19 and Politics Part 3 / Vaccine Nationalism

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by GlennB

"Kriti Sachdeva is more excited about the easing of national lockdown restrictions than she is about her birthday in November. “I want to celebrate,” she said. “I want to do everything, I just worry I won’t have time to fit it all in.”

She plans to go to the gym, eat brunch on the pavement at her favourite cafe, hit the shops, meet up with friends for a group outdoor yoga class and see work colleagues for drinks at an outdoor pub." link

ffs

Here we go again

That's so weird. All those things have been happening in my region for months now:
- gyms are open social distancing
- shops are open with social distancing
- outdoor workout classes are open with social distancing (not so much anymore, since gyms are now open for indoor classes).
- brunch on the pavement has been a thing since last summer
- drinks at outdoor pubs likewise
- recently, restaurants have been open for indoor dining with social distancing

Our numbers have been good, and remain good.

[zooterkin]

Great infographic showing cases, deaths, restrictions etc over time in the UK.

https://twitter.com/psythor/status/1...752900612?s=21

Instagram version- https://www.instagram.com/p/CNPe1mbAW7t/

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by theprestige

That's so weird. All those things have been happening in my region for months now:
- gyms are open social distancing
- shops are open with social distancing
- outdoor workout classes are open with social distancing (not so much anymore, since gyms are now open for indoor classes).
- brunch on the pavement has been a thing since last summer
- drinks at outdoor pubs likewise
- recently, restaurants have been open for indoor dining with social distancing

Our numbers have been good, and remain good.

What do you regard as ‘good’?

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

What do you regard as ‘good’?

He's OK.

[Garrison]

Originally Posted by lomiller

It's good that Covid vaccine exports are finally being allowed from the UK. The US may soon allow a small number to be exported as well. The EU, which has shipped ~80 million, remains the most reliable partner wrt to allowing vaccines produced within it's borders to be exported. It's still the only viable source of vaccine for countries that don't have their own production facilities.

Well of course the EU is exporting large quantities, they clearly aren't using them for their own people after all.

[GlennB]

Today, down the pub. 3,4,5, several people close together at each table and not a mask in sight. 6 at the nearest table and social distancing totally ignored.

[Rolfe]

Oh for crying out loud.

[The Don]

My English "local" was diligent about distancing and the rule of 6 but I was glad to have a table by the front door with no-one else around so Mrs Don could have a birthday pint.

[Filippo Lippi]

Where do all the drinkers go for a piss?

[Darat]

Originally Posted by GlennB

Today, down the pub. 3,4,5, several people close together at each table and not a mask in sight. 6 at the nearest table and social distancing totally ignored.

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Oh for crying out loud.

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away…

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

Where do all the drinkers go for a piss?

Toilets inside.

You have to wear a mask and observe social distancing - good luck with that.

[Samson]

The talking cats came back.

It is a bit like the road toll. Not too many deaths but a lot of life long damage.

[Captain_Swoop]

Quote:

"Exciting", "slightly scary" and "an absolute riot" were some of the verdicts from drinkers enjoying their first night out in months as England reopened outdoor hospitality.

In London's Soho, locals welcomed seeing the West End "buzzing again" with life.

The streets were packed, with roads closed to give more space for al fresco drinking and dining.

In Newcastle, people said it was "worth it" to brave freezing pub terraces.

Despite flurries of snow in parts of the country, people flocked to pubs and restaurants to celebrate the return of some of their freedoms.

"It's full everywhere, It feels like a celebration, basically," one drinker told the BBC.

"Honestly it feels so good, it feels like we're out of prison. We're celebrating a birthday, so it's the best gift, I guess," said another.

Attila Kulcsar, a media communications manager, said the atmosphere was "like a return to the 'real' Soho of the 1990s" - or alternatively "like how I imagine VE Day",

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56727568

[Rolfe]

Wild horses wouldn't drag me into that. We're still closed for another two weeks but even when we're allowed to travel again I won't be rushing to take advantage. Still, I and all my cousins will be fully vaccinated by then so some family visiting may be on the cards.

[The Don]

Apparently the emergence of the "South Africa" variant in London has left little margin for error in the management of the pandemic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-5...ost_type=share

Just as well that the government made sure that the streets were teeming with drunken revellers failing to observe social distancing then.

[Rolfe]

Sigh. If London gets it, we'll get it in due course, and I'm on the AZ vaccine which I've read isn't so good against that variant.

[The Don]

Wow !

Quote:

Monmouthshire

1 case per 100,000 people in the latest week 2 Apr-8 Apr. The average area in Wales had 12*.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

It's probably just a random fluctuation among low numbers but a teacher friend reports no positive tests in her school in the last few weeks.

Hope the good news continues as things open up.

[Filippo Lippi]

I remember reading something about the UK schools whilst doom-scrolling. There was a bit of a spike when they first went back and then it started looking so very much better.

Which would fit with "kids don't transmit it"

Apologies if this has already been reported in thread

[KDLarsen]

Denmark is set to ditch the AstraZeneca vaccine entirely, no words yet on whether J&J will be ditched or not.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Denmark is set to ditch the AstraZeneca vaccine entirely, no words yet on whether J&J will be ditched or not.

Seems a very extreme reaction? Based on what data?

[Captain_Swoop]

Actor Laurence Fox (London Mayoral Candidate) tweeted

@LozzaFox
As someone who suffers from deep needle anxiety, it has so empowering to be able to make a do it yourself vaccine passport. Peace be with you.

(Picture of 'vaccine passport' in link) https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1382060263088742404


(He has downloaded and printed a copy of an NHS vaccination card, he seems to be advocating people do this and then commit fraud by claiming they have had the vaccination)

[Darat]

What a snowflake….

[Captain_Swoop]

Also with Laurence, people are posting pictures of all his tattoos and questioning his 'deep needle anxiety'
Same with his exemption from face masks because of 'anxiety'. Lots of photographs of him with a motorcycle helmet on and a bandana over his face underneath it.

[Darat]

When you get down to it - he’s just a twat.

[The Don]

wrong thread

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Darat

When you get down to it - he’s just a twat.

I thought you were the one who disapproved of using that word on the forum!

[Rolfe]

Needle phobia isn't trivial, mind you. My godson has it and would rather suffer an actual migraine than take injectible imigran when the oral form doesn't do it for him. Now I don't see how anyone can get through life without having to have an injection, ever, especially as they get older, but it's an issue.

This is another advantage of nasal spray vaccines, which will hopefully be around soon. Not only will they presumably produce better protection from transmitting the virus by inducing IgA, they'll be acceptable to people with real needle phobia and might allay the worries of some of the vaccine-hesitant demographic who won't see it as "putting something foreign into my body" in quite the same way as an injection.

[Captain_Swoop]

Story on the news about a pigeon forcing a four hour closure of a Covid test centre.

Who did they send in to catch it? Dastardly and Mutley?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-56746699

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by Garrison

Well of course the EU is exporting large quantities, they clearly aren't using them for their own people after all.

If everyone starts hording vaccines and the materials\equipment required to make them like the UK is doing less vaccine ends up being produced everywhere. It would be better for everyone if there were cooperation in production and distribution without countries like the UK saying "our vaccine production is only for us"

IMO vaccines should be given the same type of status as critical defence industries. This means not only would you prohibit importing either vaccines, materials or equipment involved in the production of vaccines from any country that has show itself to be a bad actor or simply can't be trusted. This would include both the US and UK. The US is large enough it probably wouldn't matter, though.

[KDLarsen]

Originally Posted by Darat

Seems a very extreme reaction? Based on what data?

From what I gather, the reasoning was that they estimated 1 in 40,000 recipients would suffer a critical adverse reaction, and with 200,000 doses left of the current batch, that would amount to about 5 patients in intensive care.

On the other hand, with the current number of cases, delaying the vaccine schedule by a few weeks while the other vaccines pick up the slack, would only result in 1-2 critical Covid cases (ie. requiring ICU care).

Of course, with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine now in doubt, that pretty much throws a gigantic spanner in the overall schedule. The current estimate suggest that without either AZ or J&J, the vaccine drive wouldn't be completed until the end of the year.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

From what I gather, the reasoning was that they estimated 1 in 40,000 recipients would suffer a critical adverse reaction, and with 200,000 doses left of the current batch, that would amount to about 5 patients in intensive care.

On the other hand, with the current number of cases, delaying the vaccine schedule by a few weeks while the other vaccines pick up the slack, would only result in 1-2 critical Covid cases (ie. requiring ICU care).

Of course, with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine now in doubt, that pretty much throws a gigantic spanner in the overall schedule. The current estimate suggest that without either AZ or J&J, the vaccine drive wouldn't be completed until the end of the year.

But we know that can’t be the correct level of risk, if it was the UK’s NHSs would have been overwhelmed in providing treatment for the clots.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by lomiller

If everyone starts hording vaccines and the materials\equipment required to make them like the UK is doing less vaccine ends up being produced everywhere. It would be better for everyone if there were cooperation in production and distribution without countries like the UK saying "our vaccine production is only for us"

IMO vaccines should be given the same type of status as critical defence industries. This means not only would you prohibit importing either vaccines, materials or equipment involved in the production of vaccines from any country that has show itself to be a bad actor or simply can't be trusted. This would include both the US and UK. The US is large enough it probably wouldn't matter, though.

The UK hasn’t done that.

[KDLarsen]

Originally Posted by Darat

But we know that can’t be the correct level of risk, if it was the UK’s NHSs would have been overwhelmed in providing treatment for the clots.

Indeed, unfortunately noone seems to have raised that point at yesterday's press briefing.

The latest development is that they're mulling over allowing people to opt in to recieve the AZ vaccine, though that will most likely be a political decision.