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Tags bread , court decisions , Ireland incidents , subway

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Old 14th October 2020, 06:16 AM   #201
zooterkin
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I wonder how the europeans here who mock US bread for being sweet also mock Philippines spaghetti for being too sweet...or if that one gets to be labeled an exciting cultural modification.
My guess would be none, on the grounds that thatís how many are aware of the dish.
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Old 14th October 2020, 06:24 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I wonder how the europeans here who mock US bread for being sweet also mock Philippines spaghetti for being too sweet...or if that one gets to be labeled an exciting cultural modification.
I haven’t had Filipino spaghetti, but it’s certainly true that a lot of food in Southeast Asia is over-sweetened to this European’s taste. The packaged bread in Malaysia is mostly terrible for this reason. I don’t think Subway has problems with definitions here.

ETA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_spaghetti for those who are interested. Sounds awful, but I would try a vegetarian version twice.

Last edited by gypsyjackson; 14th October 2020 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:05 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
I havenít had Filipino spaghetti, but itís certainly true that a lot of food in Southeast Asia is over-sweetened to this Europeanís taste. The packaged bread in Malaysia is mostly terrible for this reason. I donít think Subway has problems with definitions here.

ETA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_spaghetti for those who are interested. Sounds awful, but I would try a vegetarian version twice.
I feel like the US case gets a lot of, "LOL fat dumb Americans" while other countries get the, "well, different culture" treatment.
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Old 14th October 2020, 08:09 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
I havenít had Filipino spaghetti, but itís certainly true that a lot of food in Southeast Asia is over-sweetened to this Europeanís taste. The packaged bread in Malaysia is mostly terrible for this reason. I donít think Subway has problems with definitions here.

ETA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_spaghetti for those who are interested. Sounds awful, but I would try a vegetarian version twice.

Reading the article you cited, it isn't clear to me that that the actual spaghetti itself is notably different, it is the sauce which is sweetened.

For this to be analogous would be more like Subway using tax exempt bread, and then putting jam on it.

I don't think the Irish statute would find fault with that.
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Old 14th October 2020, 08:25 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
They clearly believed they had a case or they wouldn't have bothered to take it to court. They paid the tax. They felt the Irish government was interpreting the rules wrongly. They went to court to get a ruling on it. The court said the government is right.

You don't pay expensive lawyers to take a case to court, if you are sure that the case will fail.
Even if they were told that they had a 99% chance of failing it may have been worth the investment. At the very least they could tell the franchisees that they were working on their behalf at every turn. It may have even been the franchisees that pushed for the action at higher levels.

After having sat in on similar decisions I would only say that you can not begin to count the reasons why a decision may have been made until you first count the number of people involved in the decision. Then decide on an appropriate multiple.
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Old 14th October 2020, 09:00 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
I havenít had Filipino spaghetti, but itís certainly true that a lot of food in Southeast Asia is over-sweetened to this Europeanís taste. The packaged bread in Malaysia is mostly terrible for this reason. I donít think Subway has problems with definitions here.

ETA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_spaghetti for those who are interested. Sounds awful, but I would try a vegetarian version twice.
I think here in Arizona we actually beat you in Malaysia to getting a first jollibee
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Old 14th October 2020, 09:45 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
"The breadís sugar content Ė five times the qualifying limit under the act Ė means that it falls outside of the legal definition of a staple food."

And this sounds tasty:

"The ruling is not the first slice of controversy for the brand. In 2014, Subway decided to start removing the flour whitening agent azodicarbonamide from its baked goods after a petition circulated online. The ingredient is commonly used in the manufacture of yoga mats and carpet underlay and has been banned by the European Union and Australia from use in food products."
Ugh that's food babe level chemophobia. Yes, it CAN be used for yoga mats but no that isnt the same thing as putting yoga mats in food. That's like saying because water is used in antifreeze, the council is pumping antifreeze into your house. Standard luddite nonsense.
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:46 AM   #208
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Cynical, but I think that they simply thought, “we have a few MPs in our pocket and have paid the judge, maybe we can get away with it.”

Now they know that they either didn’t pay enough, or bribed the wrong people.
If the bribery ends up costing more than the tax they will give up.
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Old 14th October 2020, 10:52 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Cynical, but I think that they simply thought, ďwe have a few MPs in our pocket and have paid the judge, maybe we can get away with it.Ē
Who's they? This suit was brought by Bookfinders Ltd, a franchisee in Ireland.

A lot of people on this forum seem to have an irrational hatred of business.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:12 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Who's they? This suit was brought by Bookfinders Ltd, a franchisee in Ireland.

A lot of people on this forum seem to have an irrational hatred of business.
That makes my post above look a bit silly. I suppose I should have looked into that before opining.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:33 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
I havenít had Filipino spaghetti, but itís certainly true that a lot of food in Southeast Asia is over-sweetened to this Europeanís taste. The packaged bread in Malaysia is mostly terrible for this reason. I donít think Subway has problems with definitions here.

ETA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_spaghetti for those who are interested. Sounds awful, but I would try a vegetarian version twice.
I think the significant difference (from your link) is that it isn't an every day food likebread-:

Quote:
It is regarded as a comfort food in Philippine cuisine. It is typically served in almost any special occasion, especially on children's birthdays.
It seems to me that our resident penny-on-the-railway-track isn't comparing apples with oranges so much as apples with birthday cake.

National obesity rankings of 12 & 166 are also likely to influence ones perceptions about the average diet too of course.

https://obesity.procon.org/global-obesity-levels/
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:42 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That makes my post above look a bit silly. I suppose I should have looked into that before opining.
Ditto
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:06 PM   #213
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This makes me wonder if the legal action is rooted in a dispute between the franchisee and the parent company:

"We'd like to offer our customers a more traditional bread option."

"Sorry, no. We like our bread recipes. Our focus groups prefer them to other recipes."

"Our local customers don't like it that way. And by the way, if it were a different bread we could pay less tax."

"Huh? Just pay the tax. We don't care about that, or about your local customers. We care about our franchisees serving a uniform product that customers can trust to be the same everywhere."

"But there's so much sugar in it, it's not even bread!"

"Of course it's bread."

"You think so? Just watch!" [sues] "See, the judge said it's not bread!"
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:25 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
This makes me wonder if the legal action is rooted in a dispute between the franchisee and the parent company:

"We'd like to offer our customers a more traditional bread option."

"Sorry, no. We like our bread recipes. Our focus groups prefer them to other recipes."

"Our local customers don't like it that way. And by the way, if it were a different bread we could pay less tax."

"Huh? Just pay the tax. We don't care about that, or about your local customers. We care about our franchisees serving a uniform product that customers can trust to be the same everywhere."

"But there's so much sugar in it, it's not even bread!"

"Of course it's bread."

"You think so? Just watch!" [sues] "See, the judge said it's not bread!"
That seems stupid. Why spend millions hundreds of thousands(?) on a Subway franchise if the franchisee's target market doesn't like the food?

Last edited by theprestige; 14th October 2020 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:29 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That seems stupid. Why spend millions on a Subway franchise if the franchisee's target market doesn't like the food?
Millions for the franchise license? I thought it was in the low $10ks?

Eta: but your point makes sense. If the demographic so uniformly dislikes the bread, the retailer should invest in becoming the competition.
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Last edited by Thermal; 14th October 2020 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:10 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Millions for the franchise license? I thought it was in the low $10ks?

Eta: but your point makes sense. If the demographic so uniformly dislikes the bread, the retailer should invest in becoming the competition.
Yeah, millions is probably a bit much. I'm envisioning multiple locations over multiple years, with franchise fees adding up.
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Old 15th October 2020, 08:04 AM   #217
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Ireland can do what they want with their tax laws, obviously, but I'm still not seeing that the bread in question is as sugar-laden as people are making out. 3g is less than a teaspoon.
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Old 15th October 2020, 08:41 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
They clearly believed they had a case or they wouldn't have bothered to take it to court.
Or they were hopeful that they could have the law interpreted in their favour.
Many companies fight regulations that they are quite obviously violating, in the hope of a judgement in their favour.
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Old 15th October 2020, 08:46 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Ugh that's food babe level chemophobia. Yes, it CAN be used for yoga mats but no that isnt the same thing as putting yoga mats in food. That's like saying because water is used in antifreeze, the council is pumping antifreeze into your house. Standard luddite nonsense.

As has been pointed out, several times, in this thread the thermal breakdown products of azodicarbonamide, semicarbazide and urethane, are recognised carcinogens.
That's why the stuff is banned in the EU and elsewhere.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 15th October 2020, 08:48 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Or they were hopeful that they could have the law interpreted in their favour.
Many companies fight regulations that they are quite obviously violating, in the hope of a judgement in their favour.
Bookfinders was not violating this regulation, though.
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Old 15th October 2020, 08:50 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

As has been pointed out, several times, in this thread the thermal breakdown products of azodicarbonamide, semicarbazide and urethane, are recognised carcinogens.
That's why the stuff is banned in the EU and elsewhere.
"WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm."
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:34 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm."
A trigger warning would be nice.
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