IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 23rd September 2021, 05:47 PM   #1
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,378
For those Interested in Rangeomorphs

Science news just in.

It's for all of you who are interested in Rangeomorphs, particularly those which lived between the Cryogenian and the Cambrian Period.

The developmental biology of Charnia and the eumetazoan affinity of the Ediacaran rangeomorphs

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe0291

Quote:
These data bring competing records of early animal evolution into closer agreement, reformulating our understanding of the evolutionary emergence of animal bodyplans.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 04:48 AM   #2
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,304
Man, that seems pretty interesting, but contains so many words that I have to look up (four in the title alone; plus "affinity" seems to be used in a strange way; affinity for what?)

Can anyone translate for the layperson?

I gather that this is a very early animal, among the earliest for which we can find fossils.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 06:25 AM   #3
sphenisc
Philosopher
 
sphenisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,593
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Man, that seems pretty interesting, but contains so many words that I have to look up (four in the title alone; plus "affinity" seems to be used in a strange way; affinity for what?)

Can anyone translate for the layperson?

I gather that this is a very early animal, among the earliest for which we can find fossils.
The Eumetazoa are basically what you might call proper animals; they're multicellular, with tissues, and body plans that you can recognise. It doesn't include sponges, which you can shove through a sieve and it'll clump together and carry on as though nothing happened, there's no large scale organisation that's central to staying alive.

The rangeomorphs have something like body plans but not like anything else we see in the fossil record. There's spirals and Charnia's weird branching, etc.

The question of affinity is to do with closeness of relationship. Are rangeomorphs more closely related to sponges and have just found a different way of becoming more organised? Or are they eumetazoans who branched off early, experimenting with alternative ways of having body parts? Or maybe they're not a single group at all and some came from one lineage and some from another? The affinity question is how do they fit into what we already know about the tree of life, which branches are they next to?
__________________
"The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen
sphenisc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 06:31 AM   #4
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,304
Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
The Eumetazoa are basically what you might call proper animals; they're multicellular, with tissues, and body plans that you can recognise. It doesn't include sponges, which you can shove through a sieve and it'll clump together and carry on as though nothing happened, there's no large scale organisation that's central to staying alive.

The rangeomorphs have something like body plans but not like anything else we see in the fossil record. There's spirals and Charnia's weird branching, etc.

The question of affinity is to do with closeness of relationship. Are rangeomorphs more closely related to sponges and have just found a different way of becoming more organised? Or are they eumetazoans who branched off early, experimenting with alternative ways of having body parts? Or maybe they're not a single group at all and some came from one lineage and some from another? The affinity question is how do they fit into what we already know about the tree of life, which branches are they next to?
Thanks!
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 06:37 AM   #5
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,304
I wonder if this species might be an ancestor of ours.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 06:39 AM   #6
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,378
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Thanks!
Me too. Thanks sphenisc.

I posted this on the Forum in the firm knowledge that someone would explain it to me.

I love this froup.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 06:43 AM   #7
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,304
Who else remembers this:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2021, 07:31 PM   #8
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 43,963
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I wonder if this species might be an ancestor of ours.
This seems very unlikely. The Ediacaran biota had body plans that were completely alien to modern forms, and it's difficult to see a line of evolution that could have produced animals with bilateral symmetry and a mouth-gut-anus system. There's not yet any connection between them and the Cambrian fauna, although perhaps one may yet be found. It's not even clear if they were animals. Adolf Seilacher
proposed that they may have been giant multinucleate unicellular protists. If they were animals, they were probably a dead end that died out when a second evolution of animals in the Cambrian period were more successful and drove them to extinction.

I think that they were perhaps one of many "experiments" in multicellullar evolution that didn't pan out until our ancestors evolved.
__________________
Every time you feed a troll, God kills a kitten. Please stop killing kittens.

I used to think that Republicans were just jerks. Now I'm convinced that they're all sick, evil, twisted pieces of [first of George Carlin's seven dirty words].

"Biden's a Commie, like the Rockefellers!" -- some idiot overheard
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2021, 07:16 AM   #9
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,378
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Who else remembers this:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Faintly. Unfortunately, the background music triggers memories of the Monty P Cheese Shop sketch.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2021, 08:09 AM   #10
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,304
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
This seems very unlikely. The Ediacaran biota had body plans that were completely alien to modern forms, and it's difficult to see a line of evolution that could have produced animals with bilateral symmetry and a mouth-gut-anus system. There's not yet any connection between them and the Cambrian fauna, although perhaps one may yet be found. It's not even clear if they were animals. Adolf Seilacher
proposed that they may have been giant multinucleate unicellular protists. If they were animals, they were probably a dead end that died out when a second evolution of animals in the Cambrian period were more successful and drove them to extinction.

I think that they were perhaps one of many "experiments" in multicellullar evolution that didn't pan out until our ancestors evolved.
Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. We must have had an ancestor though that lived at the same time. I wonder what it looked like.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2021, 08:20 AM   #11
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,304
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Faintly. Unfortunately, the background music triggers memories of the Monty P Cheese Shop sketch.
Oh, I rather like it myself. It's Bach. (Gavotte en Rondeau from Partita no. 3)
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2021, 09:27 AM   #12
sphenisc
Philosopher
 
sphenisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,593
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. We must have had an ancestor though that lived at the same time. I wonder what it looked like.
Haikouichthys was around a few million years later, it resembled a modern day lancelet Amphioxus.
__________________
"The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen
sphenisc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2021, 10:52 AM   #13
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 43,963
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. We must have had an ancestor though that lived at the same time. I wonder what it looked like.
Well, we had ancestors around but they may not have been in this line. The Ediacaran biota also evolved from our ancestors, but then perhaps another line evolved that led to us. Our ancestors of that period may have been multicellular too but either left no fossil evidence or it hasn't been found yet.

As for what it looked like, I'd think that it had a mouth/gut/anus system or something on the road to it.
__________________
Every time you feed a troll, God kills a kitten. Please stop killing kittens.

I used to think that Republicans were just jerks. Now I'm convinced that they're all sick, evil, twisted pieces of [first of George Carlin's seven dirty words].

"Biden's a Commie, like the Rockefellers!" -- some idiot overheard
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:52 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.