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Old 10th July 2021, 08:49 AM   #201
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IME, the most common reason a cop was arrested, was for domestic incidents. But, for a long time, most complaints about domestic incidents result in arrests, on not much evidence at all. I know one cop who was required to resign, because he was convicted of shouting at his ex-wife, with no other witnesses to the incident, which seems bizarre and unfairly harsh.
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Old 10th July 2021, 09:46 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
IME, the most common reason a cop was arrested, was for domestic incidents. But, for a long time, most complaints about domestic incidents result in arrests, on not much evidence at all. I know one cop who was required to resign, because he was convicted of shouting at his ex-wife, with no other witnesses to the incident, which seems bizarre and unfairly harsh.
Which suggests there was maybe more to it?
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Old 12th July 2021, 05:27 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Over on Scrutable.science people were pointing out that Couzens wiped his phone 39 minutes before being arrested.

Which is pretty suspicious.
One of his chums tipped him off.
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Old 15th July 2021, 02:21 AM   #204
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...el-morgan-case

Well, well, it turns out that obstructing inquiries can have some consequences, maybe. Or was Dick's obstructive behaviour yet another "one off", "individual event", "isolated occurrence" and all the rest of the excuses used to avoid having a long, hard look at the cultures which clearly prevail even now.

I note it is "consider" investigation, so we'll have to wait to see what happens to those considerations. Or will Dick simply not be re-appointed as commissioner, allowing that already lumpy carpet to have some more swept under it?
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Old 15th July 2021, 02:44 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...el-morgan-case

Well, well, it turns out that obstructing inquiries can have some consequences, maybe. Or was Dick's obstructive behaviour yet another "one off", "individual event", "isolated occurrence" and all the rest of the excuses used to avoid having a long, hard look at the cultures which clearly prevail even now.

I note it is "consider" investigation, so we'll have to wait to see what happens to those considerations. Or will Dick simply not be re-appointed as commissioner, allowing that already lumpy carpet to have some more swept under it?
Yes but if you want to shoot an innocent Brazilian, and don't want to bother importing US cops, she's your officer in charge.
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Old 15th July 2021, 02:58 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...el-morgan-case

Well, well, it turns out that obstructing inquiries can have some consequences, maybe. Or was Dick's obstructive behaviour yet another "one off", "individual event", "isolated occurrence" and all the rest of the excuses used to avoid having a long, hard look at the cultures which clearly prevail even now.

I note it is "consider" investigation, so we'll have to wait to see what happens to those considerations. Or will Dick simply not be re-appointed as commissioner, allowing that already lumpy carpet to have some more swept under it?
How she wasn't fired after the report was published is a disgrace. How can we have the most senior police officer in the country being someone who deliberately impeded an investigation? It makes no sense at all.
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Old 15th July 2021, 03:24 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How she wasn't fired after the report was published is a disgrace. How can we have the most senior police officer in the country being someone who deliberately impeded an investigation? It makes no sense at all.
Lessons learned from Hillsborough.
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Old 15th July 2021, 03:37 AM   #208
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Well, I'll be bearing this thread in mind this weekend, as I am away with the fairies and camping with three serving police officers. I'm sure I'll be hearing some interesting stories about their side of the job.
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Old 17th July 2021, 01:32 AM   #209
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The Met have now got around to sacking Wayne Couzens - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-sarah-everard - so we know where the bar is set...Cressida Dick will be fine for just having obstructed that inquiry.
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Old 18th July 2021, 03:10 AM   #210
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Hendon, I think we have a problem - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...and-dishonesty

Now, what were we saying about problems in selection and vetting within police forces?
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Old 18th July 2021, 03:17 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Hendon, I think we have a problem - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...and-dishonesty

Now, what were we saying about problems in selection and vetting within police forces?
It seems fit for purpose if the purpose is to train police officers who will fit into an institutionally corrupt organisation
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Old 18th July 2021, 03:36 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It seems fit for purpose if the purpose is to train police officers who will fit into an institutionally corrupt organisation
Quote:
....A Met statement said: “We set the very highest standards for our officers of the future as well as our current workforce.

“Of the thousands of new recruits the Met trains every year, a very small number fall below the expected standards of performance and conduct. They are dealt with appropriately, on a case-by-case basis and, where appropriate, cases will be referred to the Met police’s directorate of professional standards.”


...snip...
Fast tracked for potential head of the Met?
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Old 18th July 2021, 03:54 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Fast tracked for potential head of the Met?
Constable Savage was an affectionate portrait of an idealised Met.
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Old 19th July 2021, 02:53 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Hendon, I think we have a problem - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...and-dishonesty

Now, what were we saying about problems in selection and vetting within police forces?
From the article;

"The documents reveal that during an internal question-and-answer session in July last year, Dick was forced to deny rumours that an entire intake of Hendon recruits had failed the initial selection process but were still given a start date because “the Met needed the numbers”.

The same happened with Police Scotland when the SNP first came to power and boosted recruitment. I was went to Tulliallan for a 3 week course. For those three weeks the "Junior" section (recruits) was in lockdown, with lights out at 9 and the bar was closed. The "Senior" section, which is courses for promoted officers, CID etc, was constantly disrupted by problems with the recruits. We lost a whole days lessons as all our instructors had been up the night before dealing with an incident they refused to disclose.

The college was at bursting point and to meet targets, recruits were being passed, when before they would have been dismissed. I subsequently met cops recruited at that time. The decent ones spoke of the hell that was Tulliallan at that time, the bullying, misbehaviour, thefts etc. Others were the ones who had been the bullies and idiots, and they are now being promoted and are the future of Police Scotland.

It is because of the recruitment bulges, that mean the police recruit and keep people who should not be police officers, that there is no hope of any improvement in UK policing for decades to come.
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Old 19th July 2021, 03:01 AM   #215
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As ever those at the top will be totally innocent of this, they will proclaim "We said that no shortcuts were to be taken or standards were to be changed, so it's those naughty trainers and other folk's fault".

They will of course forget to mention the pressure their "instructions" put on the "middle managers" to deliver and what would happen if they said they couldn't deliver what the bosses wanted.
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Old 19th July 2021, 12:07 PM   #216
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According to the instructors at Tulliallan, who were all Inspector or above or civilians, they constantly wrote reports detailing why recruits should be dismissed. It was the most senior staff, the ACCs, DCC and Chief Constable who have the power to dismiss who refused, to meet the SNP's targets.
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Old 3rd August 2021, 09:28 AM   #217
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https://news.sky.com/story/metropoli...video-12371738

"The Metropolitan Police has launched a legal battle after a senior police officer convicted of possessing a child abuse video was allowed to return to work.
Superintendent Novlett Robyn Williams won a tribunal appeal earlier this year against the decision to dismiss her and was reinstated as a police officer.
But the Met has now applied for a judicial review and believes the panel that overturned her sacking failed to properly assess the seriousness of her conviction."

Failing to report the video she was sent and then lying and claiming she did not know it was on her phone, I think the Met are right and she should stay sacked.
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Old 6th August 2021, 03:27 AM   #218
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Interesting series of tweets about the police shooting of Mark Duggan in London, which is raised as an issue on the anniversary of the riots it preceded.

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/st...40715517833216

I have not looked in any great detail, but it is more than likely a cop panicked as Duggan was getting out the taxi and was throwing the gun away, shot Duggan, and that shot injured another cop. The police then went into defensive mode to protect the police officer who shot Duggan.
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Old 6th August 2021, 11:17 PM   #219
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Here’s the original article, a bit easier to follow than a series of tweets. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...fficial-report

Is it necessary that the officer “panicked”? He was confronted with a man emerging from a car holding a gun. According to the theory in the article, the gun arm was moving.
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Old 7th August 2021, 06:53 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Here’s the original article, a bit easier to follow than a series of tweets. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...fficial-report

Is it necessary that the officer “panicked”? He was confronted with a man emerging from a car holding a gun. According to the theory in the article, the gun arm was moving.
From the article

"Bauer analysed the throwing motion required for the gun to cover the distance between where Duggan was shot and where the firearm was found. He said: “The weight of the gun is 1050g. For the gun to reach the location at which it was found, Mr Duggan would have had to throw the gun at a minimum speed of 6.7 metres per second, at an angle between 31 and 40 degrees. Such a throw would have required a large sweeping motion of his arm.”

"Duggan throws gun after second bullet is fired by officer V53
The forensic pathologist Prof Derrick Pounder told the inquest he could not see how Duggan could have thrown the gun to where it was found after being shot in the bicep, which he believes resulted from the first bullet to strike him, because of the pain the throwing action would have caused him. “Personally I can’t see how it would have happened,” said Pounder.
He also said: “I cannot conceive of how Duggan might have thrown the gun to the place it was found, unobserved by the police.” Additionally, Bauer concluded that the required throwing motion “would be readily observable by people both in front of, or behind Mr Duggan”.

I say panicked because the evidence is there is show if the gun was thrown, it would be obvious and the cop shot a colleague and into the taxi. If that was a training scenario, the cop would be failed.
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Old 8th August 2021, 01:45 AM   #221
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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...hlist-24712163

"Police Scotland has set up a secret watchlist of *officers who are the subject of repeated complaints about conduct.
More than 700 – called officers of concern – have been investigated in the last five years by the force.
Anyone who amasses four or more complaints in any 12-month period is added to the list, the Sunday Mail can reveal.
Figures released under Freedom of Information show 704 have been investigated since 2016 following 3603 complaints from the public and colleagues about their conduct. Last year, 144 cops of all ranks were under active investigation following 539 complaints."

The article does not say what Police Scotland are actually doing about those cops who generate regular complaints.
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Old 10th August 2021, 01:25 PM   #222
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Looks like the Met's vetting procedure needs tweaking. Who would have thought that this hero would turn out to be a rabid jihadist?

Quote:
A METROPOLITAN police officer who was hailed for confronting anti-lockdown protesters is being probed over a selection of racist Tweets, it has been reported.

Ruby Begum, 26, went viral for her efforts in the force last year, with senior colleagues calling her inspirational.
She's got quite a line in pithy remarks.

Quote:
Kuffar lips have been all over my mug there is no way I'm using that thing again.
Not to mention;

Quote:
Must be stupid if you think I'm gonna do 2 mins silence for 9/11
What is the Met's motto again? Oh that's right...

"We lead, others follow"
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Old 11th August 2021, 02:45 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Looks like the Met's vetting procedure needs tweaking. Who would have thought that this hero would turn out to be a rabid jihadist?
Not me.
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Old 11th August 2021, 07:35 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Not me.
Mathew, if you can’t play nice.......
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Old 11th August 2021, 07:38 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Looks like the Met's vetting procedure needs tweaking. Who would have thought that this hero would turn out to be a rabid jihadist?



She's got quite a line in pithy remarks.


Not to mention;


What is the Met's motto again? Oh that's right...

"We lead, others follow"
If someone fails to disclose an anonymous twitter or any social media account, how are the police to find out? The only way I can think of is that vetting should include candidates hand over their phones and computers for the police to search. What about setting up anon accounts after joining? I did that.
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Old 11th August 2021, 09:55 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
If someone fails to disclose an anonymous twitter or any social media account, how are the police to find out? The only way I can think of is that vetting should include candidates hand over their phones and computers for the police to search. What about setting up anon accounts after joining? I did that.
Social media accounts aside, what about background checks etc? Might these have unearthed some unpopular “leanings”?
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Old 11th August 2021, 10:11 AM   #227
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Quite right, you have to have the right sort of bigotry to join the Met.
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Old 12th August 2021, 09:19 AM   #228
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Armed police offer man a cigarette, rather than shooting him;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...shire-58187469
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Old 12th August 2021, 02:00 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Armed police offer man a cigarette, rather than shooting him;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...shire-58187469
Aren't they supposed to give him a cigarette then shoot him?

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Old 12th August 2021, 02:03 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Aren't they supposed to give him a cigarette then shoot him?

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Old 30th September 2021, 05:55 AM   #231
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Wayne Couzens was known as "the rapist" by colleagues before joining the Met.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...d-b945119.html

Once again, the vetting fell over badly
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Old 30th September 2021, 06:27 AM   #232
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Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/statu...881422848?s=20

Quote:
I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back
Luckily tgere was CCTV or it would have been her word against two officers at her trial
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Old 30th September 2021, 08:29 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/statu...881422848?s=20



Luckily tgere was CCTV or it would have been her word against two officers at her trial
Link doesn't work, so I looked for JudgeDewie on Twitter and the account is protected.
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Old 30th September 2021, 08:54 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Link doesn't work, so I looked for JudgeDewie on Twitter and the account is protected.
It was working earlier. Someone ran it through threadreader
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...881422848.html
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:21 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Wayne Couzens was known as "the rapist" by colleagues before joining the Met.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...d-b945119.html

Once again, the vetting fell over badly
When you look at which bits of police forces Couzens worked in he was among the most vetted of the vetted of the vetted, waaaaaaaay more than yer man who killed Dalian Atkinson. There are some obvious systemic and cultural issues at play in several, if not all (pacé some of Nessie's posts), police forces here.
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Old 1st October 2021, 06:00 AM   #236
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Advice from the Met Police on what to do if a lone police officer is going to arrest you and you do not think they are legitimate

https://news.met.police.uk/news/metr...couzens-434739

"What to do if you have concerns an officer is threat to you / How do you prove an officer is genuine?"

First the sensible advice is that an on duty police officer who is in plain-clothes or uniform will have a radio on them. Ask to see that and for the arrest to be radioed in. Now the stupid advice;

"If after all of that you feel in real and imminent danger and you do not believe the officer is who they say they are, for whatever reason, then I would say you must seek assistance - shouting out to a passer-by, running into a house, knocking on a door, waving a bus down or if you are in the position to do so calling 999."

That is just asking for trouble since it is incitement to resist arrest, which is a crime and risks being interpreted as an excuse to escalate conflict between the police and public.

Oddly, but not surprisingly, the Met have issued no advice to their own officers on how to reassure a female she is dealing with a legitimate police officer.
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Old 1st October 2021, 06:11 AM   #237
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David Allen Green blog

Quote:
Telling you how to vet whether someone stopping you in the street is actually a plain clothes police officer is rather besides the point, when it is the actual police officers that are the problem.

For this is the problem with the Everard case.

The murderer was a police officer, using police procedure.

The problem is not about public confidence about whether these people are police officers or not.

The problem is that they are police officers.
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Old 1st October 2021, 06:31 AM   #238
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Couzens was able to pretend he was on duty, when he was off duty. The police need to look at ways to stop that from happening. It is not up to the public to learn how spot the difference.
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Old 1st October 2021, 07:09 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
David Allen Green blog
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Couzens was able to pretend he was on duty, when he was off duty. The police need to look at ways to stop that from happening. It is not up to the public to learn how spot the difference.
Exactly

And Dick has been in charge for long enough that she had time to address the known problems with vetting
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Old 1st October 2021, 07:33 AM   #240
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And Green goes on to remind us
Quote:
Remember the Lancashire police officer recorded on cameras saying "I will make something up...who are they going to believe, me or you?" in 2020 ?

All he eventually got was a written warning
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